Editing Talk:Isabelle (SSBU)

==Speculative Information==

If SmashWiki isn't speculative, then I don't think the article should talk about Isabelle's side and down Smash being those until we have actual confirmation. [[File:MrGame&WatchHeadRedSSB4-U.png|20px]][[User:Arqade|<span style="font-size:14px;font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:cyan;background:none">Arqade]]  [[User talk:Arqade|<font color="cyan">(Talk)</font>]] 19:40, 13 September 2018 (EDT)
:Agreed. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 19:42, 13 September 2018 (EDT)
:Should I edit it out then? [[File:MrGame&WatchHeadRedSSB4-U.png|20px]][[User:Arqade|<span style="font-size:14px;font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:cyan;background:none">Arqade]]  [[User talk:Arqade|<font color="cyan">(Talk)</font>]] 19:43, 13 September 2018 (EDT)
::No need to remove it entirely, just leave it ambiguous as to what moves they are. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span>
:Ok [[File:MrGame&WatchHeadRedSSB4-U.png|20px]][[User:Arqade|<span style="font-size:14px;font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:cyan;background:none">Arqade]]  [[User talk:Arqade|<font color="cyan">(Talk)</font>]]

== Bug Net ==

She grabs with the fishing rod, not the bug net. Who says the bug net can't her side special? I don't even think we say what moves any of them are, as her "Up Smash" could easily be her up tilt. [[Special:Contributions/98.116.134.108|98.116.134.108]] 21:51, 13 September 2018 (EDT)
:Her character video on the website shows her using the bug net as her grab. There may be something going on here that we don't know the specifics of, so it would be best not to specify. However, we know that the stop sign is her up smash because we see the "sparkling" visual effect that indicates it as a smash attack; same with the bucket of water, which is likely a down smash since it covers both sides. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 22:04, 13 September 2018 (EDT)
::She has some similarities with Villager, who uses a bug net for a grab, so it's implied that Isabelle's grab is also the bug net. I think it's safe to say that that's her grab. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 22:06, 13 September 2018 (EDT)

==Smash attacks==

As I pointed to earlier, smash attacks have a special visual indicator in ''Ultimate'' (a blue sparkle that appears on the character), and since we've seen this for Isabelle's party popper, stop sign, and bucket attacks, these are definitely her smash attacks. If it's okay, I'd like to indicate them as such, even if we don't know for certain what direction they correspond to. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 22:19, 13 September 2018 (EDT)
:Sounds good. I didn't know that initially! [[File:MrGame&WatchHeadRedSSB4-U.png|20px]][[User:Arqade|<span style="font-size:14px;font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:cyan;background:none">Arqade]]  [[User talk:Arqade|<font color="cyan">(Talk)</font>]] 23:04, 13 September 2018 (EDT)

== Transition from Assist Trophy to playable character ==

Why is this not notable enough to be included? Unless a large handful of Assist Trophies wound up making the transition, I could understand that. But that isn't the case, she's only the third one to do so. <font face="Papyrus">[[User:15DollarsWentSouth|<span style="color: darkblue;">'''15DollarsWentSouth'''</span>]]</font> 23:48, 13 September 2018 (EDT)

I agree, it should be mentioned that she was a former assist. Isabelle is best girl (other than Wii Fit). [[Special:Contributions/50.195.32.165|50.195.32.165]] 14:30, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

Agree completely. Why is that Assist Trophy distinction not considered notable but the Mii Costume thing is? It seems like the AT role is much more prominent and interesting a transition, compared to optional DLC cosmetic skins. [[User:Data|Data]] ([[User talk:Data|talk]]) 15:16, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

:The argument is that the trivia as originally phrased was not specific to ''Smash Ultimate'' because it specified Little Mac made the transition as well. It sounded a little misleading because Little Mac made the transition in SSB4, not Ultimate. Consequently, this piece of trivia was moved to her general character page.[[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:25, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

::So... just link to SSB4 Little Mac in the trivia piece. Easy. --[[User:Luigifan18|Luigifan18]] ([[User talk:Luigifan18|talk]]) 16:33, 14 September 2018 (EDT)
:::That solves nothing. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:33, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

== Animal Crossing characters ==

The trivia section says "Her inclusion also makes Animal Crossing the only franchise introduced in Smash 4 to feature multiple playable characters", but Animal Crossing wasn't introduced in Smash 4 - it was actually introduced in Brawl, albeit with only the Smashville stage. I think that should be fixed. [[User:Mudd|Mudd]] ([[User talk:Mudd|talk]]) 21:10, 16 September 2018 (EDT)

==Add to Trivia==
Isabelle is the first, and so far only character the end a Direct for Smash Ultimate to not be a villain, as Ridley and K. Rool were the previous ones to finish off with. Should this be added to the trivia for her? --[[User:Solgalillie|Solgalillie]] ([[User talk:Solgalillie|talk]]) 13:36, 18 September 2018 (EDT)
:No, as that counts as both volatile information and complexity. Please read [[SW:TRIVIA]]. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 17:51, 18 September 2018 (EDT)

==Mascot of the Animal Crossing franchise?==

She only appeared in one main series game.[[Special:Contributions/98.113.121.151|98.113.121.151]] 15:07, 28 September 2018 (EDT)
:It doesn’t matter how many games she has appeared in because “mascot status” is determined by how the series is marketed, not the games themselves. Her face is everywhere with regards to any promotion pertaining to Animal Crossing. She’s even a playable character in Mario Kart 8. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:14, 28 September 2018 (EDT)

== Taunt based on complete emote ==

What complete emote? There isn't any emote called that in Animal Crossing. After watching the treehouse, it seems that the taunt is more similar to Greetings. [[Special:Contributions/98.116.184.165|98.116.184.165]] 23:11, 2 November 2018 (EDT)
: The Complete emote is one of a few introduced in Happy Home Designer, and hasn't been in a mainline AC game yet. [[File:Zyrac sig.png]] <font face="Lucida Console">[[User:Zyrac|<font color="green">'''Zyrac'''</font>]]<small>([[User talk:Zyrac|<font color="green">talk</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Zyrac|<font color="green">contribs</font>]])</small></font> 10:13, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

== Should we have a “Differences from Villager” section? ==

While I’m aware that Isabelle is on the upper end of the semi-clone spectrum, since she’s a newcomer, I feel like it might be important to highlight what’s different about her. I already have a base template commented out <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:184.181.102.188|184.181.102.188]] ([[User talk:184.181.102.188|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/184.181.102.188|contribs]]) 19:11, January 16, 2019‎</small>
:Since both Lucas and Wolf in Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate did not get a "Difference from xxx" section, I don't think Isabelle should, either. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 19:26, 16 January 2019 (EST)
::Neither Lucas, Wolf, nor Isabelle are really "clones" of Ness, Fox, or Villager, so they don't really get the same "Differences from [character]" treatment that other clones get. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 21:01, 16 January 2019 (EST)
:::Would a “Similarities to Villager” Section work then, or nah. While they aren’t really clones, I’d say that it is pretty important to point out the similarities they have. For example, a lot of Isabelle’s moveset is cloned from.Villager’s, so it would be helpful to know which ones are fully cloned and which ones are only partially cloned [[Special:Contributions/184.181.102.188|184.181.102.188]] 01:10, 17 January 2019 (EST)
I think only echo fighters should get Differences from sections, since they are directly based on another fighter. --[[User:Tuffingtons|Tuffingtons]] ([[User talk:Tuffingtons|talk]]) 14:19, 18 January 2019 (EST)
:While Isabelle does retain SOME of Villager's moves, she really doesn't have enough similarities to have a section dedicated to them. She is as comparable to Villager as much as Mario is compared to Luigi. [[User:Little Warrior|Little Warrior Was Here.]] ([[User talk:Little Warrior|talk]]) 15:39, 5 March 2019 (EST)
According to Toonami she shares 66% of animations with villager while Luigi only shares 44%. I feel if they share more than 60% a diffrences section is justified. [[User:Skibot99|Skibot99]] ([[User talk:Skibot99|talk]]) 22:19, March 18, 2019 (EDT)

Given that most Isabelle players seem to also play Villager and vice versa, I think it's important to list their differences/similarities, regardless of what arbitrary rule there is about it. Isabelle is a semi-clone; Lucas and Wolf are psuedo-clones. Completely different story. If you still think she shouldn't get that section, that's fine, but imo Lucas and Wolf aren't really worth mentioning in such a discussion. The differences/similarities should be covered in her attributes section, at least.  [[User:Veledwin1|Veledwin1]] ([[User talk:Veledwin1|talk]]) 08:09, May 18, 2019 (EDT)

Coming back to this, I added in a “Differences from Villager” section because apparently, multiple Villager and Isabelle mains swap between the two. Plus, two other users who came in way after this discussion initially ended suggested to add it in. We might need to restart discussion now, especially since the forst one was before the clone page rewrite. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 13:05, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

== Competitive play section ==

Both of the players currently listed in Villager's "In Competitive Play" section also play Isabelle. Should they be listed on her page as well?  [[User:Veledwin1|Veledwin1]] ([[User talk:Veledwin1|talk]]) 08:13, May 18, 2019 (EDT)


== Bocchi smasher page ==
A while back a player by the name of Lily 'Bocchi' (don't know her last name) beat Ally in a local. How come she doesn't have her own smasher page? While the other prodigies' ZeRo talked about, do have their own smash page. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Chitoge63|Chitoge63]] ([[User talk:Chitoge63|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Chitoge63|contribs]]) 08:56, September 25, 2020 (EDT)</small>
:Being talked about as a prodigy by Zero wouldn't be enough to qualify as notable for a page. That said, I believe she haw notable enough results so its probably just that no one has taken the time to make her a page. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 11:14, September 25, 2020 (EDT)
::I had made a draft of her page in the past, but in the end I decided to scrap it, mainly because she had stated she didn't want a page since it could potentially be a target for her then-ongoing bullying. Even when that subsided she didn't want to be associated with the ''Smash'' community anymore, so I thought it would be best to respect her wishes. <s>While [[SW:OWNERSHIP|SmashWiki states that no one has ownership of pages]], I believe it's different when the actual page haven't been published to the mainspace yet.</s> [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 11:27, September 25, 2020 (EDT)
:::Furthermore, I believe that aside from the Ally win her notability is dubious at best; she had a select few mediocre regional placements, but aside from that everything else isn't great. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 11:31, September 25, 2020 (EDT)
::::Regarding the first point about Bocchi not wanting to be associated with the community, this is irrelevant, as not creating a smasher article on those grounds would be a blatant violation of [[SW:OWN]] and [[SW:NOT]], and the temporary prevention of said article from being created was a pretty clear breech of policy. Regardless, as has been pointed out, she is most likely not notable enough to warrant creating a smasher article. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 12:03, September 25, 2020 (EDT)
:::::Yeah I was looking mostly at locals. She did have a number of top 10 placements at 100+ entrant locals plus had a decent result at return to yoshis Island. But I can see the otherside as well. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 12:17, September 25, 2020 (EDT)

==Question==

Would Bocchi be considered the best Isabelle during the early metagame seeing as she beat players like {{Sm|Ally}} and {{Sm|Raptor}}? It’s hard to say because of the lack of Isa players early on.[[User:ClemSSB|ClemSSB]] ([[User talk:ClemSSB|talk]]) 12:40, March 3, 2022 (EST)

:[https://smashdata.gg/smash/ultimate/player/bocchi Her results] were literally not good during early meta. And she only did good at some 100+ locals, did bad at anything above that. So I don't really see how she was ever the best Isabelle. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 22:27, March 3, 2022 (EST)

Jesus christ. those results indeed are bad. Fair enough[[User:ClemSSB|ClemSSB]] ([[User talk:ClemSSB|talk]]) 17:13, March 4, 2022 (EST)
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