Editing Talk:Home stage

For the ''Melee'' section, should the stages that unlockable characters are fought on be included? [[User:ReiDemon|Rei]]''[[User_talk:ReiDemon|Demon]] 11:53, 8 August 2011 (EDT)
:No. It's not there home stage. <font face="Forte">[[User:BlindColours|<font color="#FFA500">Blin</font>]][[User talk:BlindColours|<font color="#00FFFF">dcol</font>]][[Special:Contributions/BlindColours|<font color="#00FF00">ours</font>]]</font> ''NoPe'' 12:03, 8 August 2011 (EDT)
::Actually, it can be considered as the character's home stage, just as the ASM stage they are fought in is. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 14:10, 8 August 2011 (EDT)
:::I also thought that way since both Ness and Falcon have their own homestages classified in Smash 64... [[User:ReiDemon|Rei]]''[[User_talk:ReiDemon|Demon]] 14:18, 8 August 2011 (EDT)

== Home advantage ==

Is that section necessary? In nearly any case where a stage favours or disfavours the character for whom it is the home stage, it's purely coincidental. The only one that's not coincidental and written about is the Summit. <sup>Smiddle&nbsp;</sup>[[User:Smiddle|君怒る]][[user talk:Smiddle|?]] 13:03, 15 August 2011 (EDT)

The above is an old post, but it shares my sentiment. I find the home advantage section unnecessary, and it does not provide any useful information for the article. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:51, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

I've removed it (see [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Home_stage&diff=1797644&oldid=1757205 edit summary]); I guess if anyone's against the removal please post your reasoning here. Some tiny bits of it were actually objective and intentional (e.g. Minecraft World, Summit traction), but those are already mentioned on their own pages. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 20:58, May 13, 2023 (EDT)

== Master Hand? ==

In many Final Destination stages, it is said that Final Destination is Master Hand's home stage. Why is Master Hand not listed, then?--[[User:Meinfoo22|Meinfoo22]] ([[User talk:Meinfoo22|talk]]) 19:02, 13 July 2013 (EDT)
:As of now, only playable characters' home stages are listed on this page, but home stages of bosses could be added. Discussion would be required to determine whether bosses have home stages or not. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 23:42, 13 July 2013 (EDT)

== Smash 4 list ==

Not much to go off yet but in one video I saw of classic mode Duck Hunt's stage was the Nintnendogs one. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 20:48, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
:Can you link to the video? [[User: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkorange;"> '''Rtzxy''' </span>]] [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]] [[User talk: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkblue;"> '''Smashing!''' </span>]] 20:50, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
::Pretty sure that for the purposes of Classic, characters just use a stage from their series. For characters like Duck Hunt and Wii Fit Trainer who lack a stage on 3DS, they use the miscellaneous stages like Find Mii, Living Room, and Tomodachi Life. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:33, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
::: Here's the video anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAZonnCTUik [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 04:30, 16 September 2014 (EDT)

== Mii Fighter ==

To my knowledge, Mii Fighters will only appear in Classic Mode as part of the Fighting Mii Team. Since the 3DS list seems to be defined by the stages they can appear on in Classic Mode, shouldn't the Mii Fighter be listed under Battlefield? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:22, 1 November 2014 (EDT)

== Now, wait a minute here... ==

The 3DS section bases the home stages on Classic Mode. And that's fine. But why should Wii U? There's absolutely no correlation between the stage chosen on Classic Mode and the characters fought (unless it's the rare occasion that it happens to be a coincidence).

So here's my theory. We make a list of all the stages that can appear in a certain era in All-Star Mode, and we say that that's their home stage, like so:

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Character(s)
!Home stage(s)
|-
|{{SSB4|Rosalina & Luma}}<br>{{SSB4|Wii Fit Trainer}}<br>{{SSB4|Shulk}}<br>{{SSB4|Dark Pit}}<br>{{SSB4|Robin}}<br>{{SSB4|Lucina}}<br>{{SSB4|Greninja}}
|[[Coliseum]]<br>[[Kalos Pokémon League]]<br>[[Mario Galaxy]]<br>[[Skyworld]]<br>[[Wii Fit Studio]]
|}

And so on. Now, this would just be exclusive to here; we'd leave the 3DS section and the stage pages alone. Thoughts? [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 15:17, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
:I'm fine with this, but we may want to also take character unlocking sequences into account. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 15:25, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
::It's kind of a mess either way. The way I see it, even if we were to go with an All-Star based listing like you suggest, it's really more like:
::{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Character(s)
!Home stage(s)
|-
|{{SSB4|Rosalina & Luma}} || [[Mario Galaxy]]
|-
|{{SSB4|Wii Fit Trainer}} || [[Wii Fit Studio]]
|-
|{{SSB4|Dark Pit}} || [[Skyworld]]
|-
|{{SSB4|Robin}}<br>{{SSB4|Lucina}} || [[Coliseum]]
|-
|{{SSB4|Greninja}} || [[Kalos Pokémon League]]
|}
::...with Shulk along for the ride. This doesn't really resolve the issue either way per se, but it doesn't really seem accurate to just blindly use the All-Star chronological chunks as a single unit, since a lot of stages are omitted and many characters aren't matched to any. On the other hand, subdividing the groups like this still leaves some out. That's why I'm concerned about using All-Star as the sorting basis. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:36, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
:::Well, I believe we should at least be listing home stages based on a use of home stages. That said, it is kind of a mess either way. Isn't Dark Pit unlocked on Palutena's Temple? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 15:42, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
::::Yep. I agree there's not really an ideal way to go about it. My personal vote is to leave the table as is on this page and link to the All-Star table on its page, because frankly I can't think of a better way of handling it. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:21, 15 August 2015 (EDT)

== Brawl Temple ==

Why doesn’t Brawl list Temple as a home stage for the Zelda characters?[[Special:Contributions/173.174.102.62|173.174.102.62]] 13:53, 19 August 2018 (EDT)
:Prior to ''SSB4'', Past Stages could not show up in modes like Classic, thus we don't count them. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 13:54, 19 August 2018 (EDT)

== Home stages in Ultimate ==

Since Ultimate has set paths for each character’s classic mode, does a section for it really need to exist? The closest thing to a use that section has is stating that R.O.B. is unlocked on Wrecking Crew, and that’s better mentioned on [[unlockable character]]. They don’t have a use for Classic Mode anymore, and All Star Mode is on any stage now. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 03:48, July 5, 2019 (EDT) [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 03:48, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
:Also, hate to resurrect a discussion from 8 years ago, but is the “Home Stage advantage” section necessary? As far as I know, nobody actually thinks that, and it’s not actually in the gameplay. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:55, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
::Bump. Adding the section for {{forwiiu}} to ask if we need it, because Classic Mode uses any stage with any character, and All Star Mode doesn’t even use every home stage listed for each character, unless there’s a third use for them. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 18:00, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
:::It's probably fine to leave it. Although the idea of a “Home Stage advantage” doesn't apply, ''Ultimate'' is more so listing which characters and stages belong to the same series. With the exception of R.O.B., which could be enough to leave the section alone. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 18:16, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
::::If the purpose is to list which stages and characters belong in the same series for Wii U and Ultimate, then they feel unnecessary. The pages {{forwiiu}} and [[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]] convey that much better because the characters and stages will share a symbol with each other. The other games (including {{for3ds}} do have a specific use for home stages in Classic Mode and All Star Mode, and [[past stages]] and [[Mushroom Kingdom]] were always coded to not be home stages, while Wii U and Ultimate just list which stages and characters are in the same series, minus R.O.B.’s being Wrecking Crew and a couple other characters not being unlocked in stages from their series. Also, the suggestion to remove the Home Stage advantage part was not specifically related to Ultimate, but rather because it’s an arbitrary thing that I’ve never seen suggested once outside of this wiki. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 18:30, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
I do have to admit, the whole "fight this character on this stage" thing has kinda been phased out in games after Brawl... [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 18:31, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
:We should probably keep it in for {{for3ds}} though. WFT and ROB both have no stages in 3DS (using stages without a fighter instead for Classic and All Star Mode), so the Home Stage section does have a valid use in that game. It’s just Wii U and Ultimate (plus that “Home Stage Advantage” section) that might have to be removed. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 18:37, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
::Aside from Duck Hunt in ''Wii U'' due to an update, I guess for ''Wii U'' & ''Ultimate'' can mention how it does not make a difference or that the idea seemed to have been dropped. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 18:56, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
:::If the idea has been dropped, I’m not sure we even need a table for it. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 19:01, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
::::Actually, it was the ''3DS'' version to what I was referring to with Duck Hunt. And yes, a table probably would not be needed as it would just say along the lines of the characters fighting on their own series with R.O.B. being the only exception in ''Wii U'' and not present in ''Ultimate'' as you can choose the stage. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 19:17, July 5, 2019 (EDT)

Bumping. Also, FYI Wolff, despite the title of this section, this isn’t just about removing Ultimate’s section from this page, but also about removing the sections for Wii U and the “Home Stage Advantage”. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 15:40, July 8, 2019 (EDT)

== Delete? ==

With how messy the whole concept has become in later ''Smash'' games, it feels like the page contents would just be better off in other articles. For example, ''Ultimate''{{'}}s contents would just go under [[Unlockable character#Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]] and [[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Official Site]]. ''Smash 4''{{'}}s contents (both versions) are partially wrong and nearly meaningless besides a list of universes, and ''Brawl'' is almost the same with the sole exception of "R.O.B. goes on Mario Bros. and the Mario characters don't", which is already mentioned at [[Classic Mode (SSBB)]] and [[All-Star Mode]]. ''Melee''{{'}}s contents are similarly on [[Classic Mode (SSBM)]] and [[All-Star Mode]], while ''Smash 64''{{'}}s contents are on [[1P Game]] and [[Unlockable character]].

Thoughts?

I suppose the biggest strike against this is that all the stage pages would need editing, because all of them have "Home stage to" in their templates. However, some of this is already wrong (e.g. [[Jungle Hijinxs]] should be no one's home stage, because it's never used in for Wii U's All-Star). Other usages are even weirder (e.g. [[The Lake]] says it's Rayquaza's home stage). [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 06:08, May 15, 2023 (EDT)

:Alternate idea: we could remove stuff on this page that
:* Is already under [[Unlockable character]], on the grounds that it can never apply to all characters
:* Belongs on [[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Official Site]]
:* Or is just a plain universe-by-universe mapping from characters to stages

:Then this page would just be dedicated to listing the few exceptions that are left. ''Ultimate'' has nothing, ''for 3DS'' Classic has nothing, ''Smash 4'' All-Star has extremely little at best, ''Brawl'' has nothing except the R.O.B. exception, ''Melee'' Classic has very little, and ''Smash 64'' has only the Mushroom Kingdom exception. Thoughts? [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 06:36, May 15, 2023 (EDT)
::I actually agree with you on this, the whole concept of "home stages" is just repeated and/or obvious information. I was considering removing them from the template last year/early this year, but stopped due to the massive amount of work and lack of consensus (or any discussion at all) on the matter, as well as interest in concepts that needed about as much work but were way more necessary to address (attribute tables). [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 11:42, May 15, 2023 (EDT)
:::The removal of home stages from the template would take multipule willing contributors at best, which may be a number too low to be done in just a couple of days. Because of this, '''I oppose the deletion'''. [[User:Jordan2009|Jordan2009, the Sora Main]] [[User talk:Jordan2009|Talk here]] 16:16, May 15, 2023 (EDT)
::::FYI, sheer numbers shouldn't be a deterrent in the removal, especially for something either inconsistent or plain uninteresting. It's also not terribly big; it's also only 130 pages, which might sound like a lot but since I'm currently working on an even bigger project of attribute tables, this is small enough to handle, so I'm willing to remove a bulk of them. It actually takes less brainpower to remove it fully 130 times instead of thinking about what qualifies as a home stage (due to most pages listing home stages incorrectly in the infboxes) potentially less times. If I haven't made it clear, I '''support''' both this page's deletion and the removal from the infoboxes. [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 19:12, May 15, 2023 (EDT)
::::@Jordan2009 The existing template uses are already wrong and would need the same amount of work (or more work) to fix regardless, per the Jungle Hijinx and The Lake examples. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 21:34, May 15, 2023 (EDT)

I always found the concept of a "home stage" in Smash to be nebulous and it basically boils down to "whatever stages you happen to fight the character on in single-player modes", while when you're labelling several different stages as "home stages" for a character because not even the individual modes are consistent where you fight them on, it just gets really silly. This lack of consistency additionally makes the "home stage" parameters in infoboxes a fucking bloated mess of no actually useful information. Plus as mentioned way up on this page in the "Home advantage" section, there is no intrinsic advantage a character gets on their "home stage", so the concept has no real gameplay applications. At best, this page basically just amounts to a mass of trivia that conglomerates information from other pages, and it seems to only exist now because of grandfathering, I doubt the wiki would support creating this page and trying to codify the concept of "home stages" if someone tried doing it now. Another thing, even when this article was created all the way back in 2006, the very [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Home_stage&oldid=117659 first sentence of the first iteration] admits the concept of "home stages" is confusing.

Also, I'll state that something taking a lot of work is usually a bad argument to do or not do something on the wiki, but it doesn't even apply in this case, a bot can easily remove the home stage parameter and its messes from infoboxes. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 15:33, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
:I hate the fact that Ultimate simultaneously keeps the concept of home stages (especially with the characters in the Fighters Passes being bundled together with a stage) and throws it out the window, lol. I think it's fair to delete it, because the only reason you could keep it outside of "you fight these other characters here exclusively in single-player mode" is to say "yea, this is the home turf of the characters from the series this stage comes from"...which could easily be observed by looking at the universe template at the bottom of the page. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: grey;">'''the</span> <span style="color: white; text-shadow: 0 0 2px black;">Ace</span> <span style="color: purple;">Gamer'''</span>]] 15:42, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

::I support the deletion. I agree with the above that the whole concept of this is just confusing and inconsistant, and in some cases just plain nonsensical: this whole thing is literally just slapping whatever character under the "home stage" parameter if they were fought there in whatever mode. Also "home stage" is an unofficial term and concept to begin with. Sure [[SW:OFFICIAL|we don't always have to follow official rules]], but that still doesn't mean we can make up whatever we want. And the lack of a boundary for what should and shouldn't count as a home stage, combined with the aforementioned inconcistancy of which stages the characters are fought in, only makes the whole concept more confusing than it needs to be. [[File:Ness EB Sprite.png|20px]] '''[[User:Ultimate Toad|<font color="blue">Ultimate Toad,</font>]] [[User talk:Ultimate Toad|<font color="gold">the Ness main.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ultimate Toad|<font color="red">(Fuzzy pickles!)</font>]]''' 21:42, June 13, 2023 (EDT)
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