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| == Knockback speed-up == | | == Knockback speed-up == |
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| How does the knockback speed-up effect in ''Ultimate'' work again? I know it's based on hitstun, but I think I need more information on how it works. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 14:27, October 14, 2021 (EDT) | | How does the knockback speed-up effect in ''Ultimate'' work again? I know it's based on the FAF's placement, but I think I need more information on how it works. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 14:27, October 14, 2021 (EDT) |
| :A simplified way of thinking about it is, the game takes the number of hitstun frames, and if it's over 32, it begins fast-forwarding over a certain proportion of the additional hitstun frames, speeding up the knockback alongside it. The mechanic is entirely tied to hitstun, however, so hitstun modifiers will let the effect be triggered at lower knockback values, as long as the hitstun exceeds 32 frames. This effectively slows the hitstun growth beyond this point (there is a limit to how many frames can be skipped over, but in most realistic cases this doesn't really matter. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 14:34, October 14, 2021 (EDT) | | :A simplified way of thinking about it is, the game takes the number of hitstun frames, and if it's over 32, it begins fast-forwarding over a certain proportion of the additional hitstun frames, speeding up the knockback alongside it. The mechanic is entirely tied to hitstun, however, so hitstun modifiers will let the effect be triggered at lower knockback values, as long as the hitstun exceeds 32 frames. This effectively slows the hitstun growth beyond this point (there is a limit to how many frames can be skipped over, but in most realistic cases this doesn't really matter. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 14:34, October 14, 2021 (EDT) |
| ::But for attacks that have additional hitstun (i.e. Isabelle's neutral attack), and the target is barley sent into tumbling (79 KB), this resulted in the hitstun over 32, so does the knockback goes at normal speed or uses the speed-up one? [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 15:22, October 14, 2021 (EDT)
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| :::Yes, it's sped up. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 17:08, October 14, 2021 (EDT)
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| ::::And here another thing I've discovered. It seems that fall speed and gravity are affected by the speed-up. For example: Fox will hit the ground on frame 17 after dropping from one of Battlefield's lower platforms. But when at 55% and he's hit by Jigglypuff's down smash (which has a launch angle of 0°) and receives 119 KB, he will instead reach it on frame 9 due to the speed-up. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 00:12, October 25, 2021 (EDT)
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| == Balloon knockback affecting gravity and fall speed ==
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| Being the curious person that I am, are gravity and fall speed affected by the balloon knockback in ''Ultimate''? Here is the possible best setup for those who would like to find out.
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| *Ganondorf Custom Balance +3
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| *Ganondorf having a level 99 Rodin, the Infinite One primary spirit with Demon Style and three Trade-Off Attacks support spirits
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| *Fox having a level 1 Model X with Ninja Style and a Critical Super Giant support spirit
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| *Ganondorf with Xerneas and Super Mushroom buffs
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| *Fox with the Bunny Hood and Metal Box equipped and the backfire Lightning effect
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| *Ganondorf's fresh down aerial meteor smash at max rage on Fox at max damage with fixed damage on.
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| Proceed to the first frame of the knockback after hitlag and take a snapshot. Then try the same setup again, only this time with fixed damage off so that when taking very high damage from the down aerial, the Bunny Hood and Metal effects are immediately removed. If anyone could let me know what the results are for my experiment, that'd be great. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 21:07, October 2, 2023 (EDT)
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| :Here's the results with the first 15 frames ([https://i.imgur.com/wQeLPjw.png imgur link]). Left is fixed damage off, right is on. The only thing I didn't match was Custom Balance since I forgot it was available in Training (there really should be a button to toggle it on the relevant screen), but I highly doubt it would change anything. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 22:05, October 2, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::Well, they pretty much look identical by comparison, no difference there, so let's try a different setup.
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| *Byleth Custom Balance +3
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| *Byleth having a level 99 Rodin, the Infinite One primary spirit with Demon Style and three Trade-Off Attacks support spirits
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| *Fox having a level 1 Model X with Ninja Style and three lightweight support spirits
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| *Fox with the Metal Box equipped
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| *Byleth's fresh down aerial meteor smash at max rage on Fox at max damage with fix damage on
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| *Then the same setup again, but with Fox in metal and wearing the Bunny Hood and, again, with fixed damage on
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| Fox must not be in reeling when the launch occurs. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 22:52, October 2, 2023 (EDT)
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| :1, are you unable to test this yourself before getting others to do it? 2, [https://i.imgur.com/KKXMUFq.png 12 pixel difference]. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 06:39, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::1, Yeah, I've been busy. 2, Thanks so much for the results. I guess I should've added the Xerneas and Super Mushroom buffs for Byleth, though. Just to confirm, that's the first frame of the launch, right? [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 09:06, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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| :::That is the first frame. I don't think any extra buffs are necessary to test the theory when the difference is already this pronounced. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 10:27, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::::I know the balloon knockback is tied to hitstun, which is based on the amount knockback recieved (and knockback caps at 2500), so could I see the result again just once more, only with the Xerneas and Super Mushroom buffs added, if it's alright with you? [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 11:12, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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| :::::[https://i.imgur.com/wU58Oz6.png No difference]. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 15:46, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::::::Looks like my theory is done, then. Thank you for your support. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 16:01, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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