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| == Move? More like, Don't == | | ==Comparison of Gun to Bayonetta's Bullet Arts== |
| | "Unlike Bullet Arts, these bullets actually cause flinching." |
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| I '''oppose''' moving this article to "Gun / Gun Special." The name says it all - it's just a special Gun. The changes in its function when Arsene appears are minimal, and the names are so similar that I think you'd get exactly zero benefit from listing them both in the title. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Acgamer28|Acgamer28]] ([[User talk:Acgamer28|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Acgamer28|contribs]]) 17:11, June 25, 2020)</small>
| | Don't Bayonetta's Bullet Arts actually cause flinching at point-blank range? |
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| I thought about this a lot. Since the moves are specifically called by these names, and have ever so slightly different properties; one's a single hit, the other is...kind of a multihit? It's weird. The frame data is also a bit different and there's entire articles specifically for them, so I guess it makes sense, anyway. If Joker's other moves are changed, it would also bode well for consistency. '''Support'''. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 13:27, June 28, 2020 (EDT)
| | [[User:Togeodemaru|Togeodemaru]] ([[User talk:Togeodemaru|talk]]) 14:59, April 19, 2019 (EDT) |
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| I '''Support''' as Plague said so. [[File:S3AHAWK_Signature_icon_1.png|20px]] [[User:S3AHAWK|<span style="font-family: Arial;color:Blue;">S3AHAWK</span>]] ([[User talk:S3AHAWK|''<span style=" font-family: Comic Sans MS;color: Red;">talk</span>'']])[[File:S3AHAWK_signature_icon_2.png|20px]] 13:34, July 3, 2020 (EDT)
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| :I still don't feel that moving this article is really necessary. Even though its technical data does change between variants, these changes are minor on a technical and general level. Sure, it's a slightly different animation for a multihit, but nothing major about the animation itself changes. And we shouldn't move an article based on any arbitrary sort of technical data difference - it's not like Gun Special's differences occupy a large section of this article. Considering how silly and redundant the title "Gun / Gun Special" seems, even though some of Joker's other move articles seem like they'll move, this and Eiha are so far the only doublemove casse of them all that I still think are just not worth following through with. Their differences can be covered on their specific technical data pages, but for the main article it just seems too minor. [[User:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:blue">'''Acgamer'''</span>]][[User talk:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:red">'''28'''</span>]][[File:Acgamer28SignatureHead.png|20px]] 16:44, July 3, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::Oppose as well. The main argument I'd have against it is that "Gun Special" indicates that it's a powered-up version of "Gun", not a separate move; think of it more like "Hadoken" and "Shakunetsu Hadoken". ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 16:46, July 3, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::Didn't catch this earlier. Some counterpoints.
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| :::'''For Acgamer28''' The changes are minor, I would agree. However, the animations and properties are changed, which does by definition make a different move, no? The game specifically defines the moves as different on every level, which was my point. There's entire different scripts for the move, you can see for yourself [https://rubendal.github.io/ssbu/#/Patch/8.0.0/Character/Joker in the data viewer], where it's defined as "Ex". I believe the subjective argument that the changes are minor is a flawed one. '''It's best to go with what the game says for these subjects, than your own opinion'''.
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| :::'''For Serena Strawberry''' If you're going to argue Shakunetsu Hadoken as an example, at least know what it is, what it does and what its purpose is. It's not a "powered up" Hadoken, and in the history of Ryu in fighting games would corroborate with this. It's a multihit that doesn't deal as much damage or knockback in Smash, and works as a combo tool. The move is completely different in every way, except Ryu's movement before letting the Shakunetsu Hadoken out. I seriously don't understand this point and it comes off as a blatant misunderstanding of Ryu as a fighting game character. If Shakunetsu Hadoken is "just a powered up Hadoken", then Hero's Frizzle is just Frizz, with their properties being completely different while coming from the same animation.
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| :::--[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 09:24, July 22, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::::Let's not go attacking people here. I do have to admit, though, it is weird to see that one move gets to say "this is a variant of the attack that players have access to, but it is collectively still one move" and [[Egg Firing / Breegull Blaster|another move]] doesn't. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 13:18, July 22, 2020 (EDT)
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| '''Support'''. It’s the title being used in-game, therefore we should be using it too. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 18:17, August 25, 2020 (EDT)
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| :I '''support''' it for the same reason Black Vulpine does: it is listed as such in-game. [[User:Thecontributor22|Thecontributor22]] ([[User talk:Thecontributor22|talk]]) 08:22, August 26, 2020 (EDT)
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