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| I think the issue here is that the grab and the Z aerial are separate moves, and it's the latter that allows a tether recovery. Indeed, there is very little functional difference between Zero Suit Samus, Luigi and Steve's grabs, or even more so between ZSS' grabs in Brawl and later games. It feels like the distinction between tether and extended grabs is entirely arbitrary and should not continue to be used, especially when characters with non-standard Zairs like Luigi make it problematic. But regardless, Steve's grab should not classified as a tether if the distinction is retained. [[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 11:35, November 17, 2021 (EST) | | I think the issue here is that the grab and the Z aerial are separate moves, and it's the latter that allows a tether recovery. Indeed, there is very little functional difference between Zero Suit Samus, Luigi and Steve's grabs, or even more so between ZSS' grabs in Brawl and later games. It feels like the distinction between tether and extended grabs is entirely arbitrary and should not continue to be used, especially when characters with non-standard Zairs like Luigi make it problematic. But regardless, Steve's grab should not classified as a tether if the distinction is retained. [[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 11:35, November 17, 2021 (EST) |
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| :The difference is supposed to be that tethers are grabs where the grab box is attached to an object held by the fighter, rather than a fighter's limbs. So for example ZSS's grab is a tether as the grab box is attacked to the beam whip, while Yoshi and Min Min's grabs are not tethers since the grab box is attached to their tongue and arms respectively. This article seems to have an issue with conflating ledge tethers to tether grabs however, which is a problem because not all ledge tethers are tether grabs and vice versa. Obviously hookshot is still a tether grab in 64, as is grapple beam. Olimar is weird, but the Pikmin themselves are grabbing with there own limbs so it seems weird to call it a tether. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 12:33, November 17, 2021 (EST)
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| ::"grabs where the grab box is attached to an object held by the fighter, rather than a fighter's limbs" Well in that case, Villager, Isabelle, and Bowser Jr's grabs would be considered tether grabs. This isn't specific enough. [[User talk:Kesterstudios]] November 17, 2021
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| :::Thing is, in all of those cases the grab box isn't attached to the object, but it's attached to the fighter's neutral bone, like with most grabs. That's because these are area of effect grabs rather than grabs that are only active at the tip of an object. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 13:22, November 17, 2021 (EST)
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| :::I see. OK well if we're going with that definition, 64 Link and Samus's grabs should definitely be classified as tether grabs instead of extended. [[Talk:Kesterstudios]]
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| ::::Hey, if you don't mind me asking, do you not know how to sign comments? ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 14:02, November 17, 2021 (EST)
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| :::: Yeah I don't know how lol. [[User talk:Kesterstudios]]
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| :::::You type out 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 16:43, November 17, 2021 (EST)
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| ::::::The way I classify tether grabs is through the use of an external model that uses the throw bone to move its grabbox. It makes visualizing them only possible if done manually. The presence of a tether recovery or a grab aerial is irrelevant. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 14:03, November 18, 2021 (EST)
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| :::::::I'll add that this is the reason tether grabs get weird when the game speed is altered, while extended grabs do not suffer from that issue. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 14:07, November 18, 2021 (EST)
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| You mentioned that the "throw" bone is the distinguishing feature between tether and standard grabs, so does that mean that Min Min and Pac-Man have a tether, while Yoshi does not since his grab is tied to the "mouth2" bone? [[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 17:08, November 18, 2021 (EST)
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| :Not exactly. The throw bone of tether grabs does not move unless the secondary model is present. It moves regardless in the case of Min Min and Pac-Man. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 17:12, November 18, 2021 (EST)
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| == Permission to add converted values to Smash 64 section? ==
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| Since the Smash 64 measurement system already has a conversion rate to future games listed, I figured I could add the converted rates to the page in a second header next to the main values for the sake of easier viewer comparison to future games. Just want to be sure that's something administrators or whoever would be cool with first.[[User:CauseTheyWantedMeTo|CauseTheyWantedMeTo]] ([[User talk:CauseTheyWantedMeTo|talk]]) 19:20, May 16, 2024 (EDT)
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