Editing Talk:Gold (collectible)

Is "(lottery)", a ''Melee''-specific term, the best disambiguation to have for this? Is there an alternative that covers both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''? - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 23:53, 2 January 2011 (EST)
:This may be bumping an old topic, but it's relevant. I'm thinking maybe Coins (Collectibles), or if we're to follow the Manual of Style accurately, Coin (Collectible). Coins are typically grouped though, like [[Hit points]], so it's controversial. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 07:19, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

== Move to [[Gold (collectable)]] ==

Since this is called Gold in Smash 4, I think the title should be adjusted accordingly. The article would have to be restructured a little, but I feel this is necessary anyway. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 09:02, 13 February 2015 (EST)
I agree- coins aren't the term is Smash 4 and it makes it harder to confuse it with [[Smash Coins and Bills]]. [[User:RosalinaU|<span style="color: aqua;">'''RosalinaU/Rosetta'''</span>]] [[User talk:RosalinaU|''<span style="color: red;">talk</span>'']]	 21:28, 20 February 2015 (EST)

== Collectable to collectible ==

Before I looked it up, I didn't actually know collectable is an actual word. However, I still feel that the title of this article should be changed from Gold (collectable) to Gold (collectible). My reasoning is as follows:
#[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/collectible Collectible] is used to describe objects which have an intrinsic value, whether monetary, historic, or otherwise, and thus warrant collecting, such as coins, paintings, stamps, ''Magic the Gathering'' cards, etc., while [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/collectable collectable] is used to describe any object which can be collected, such as donations, car payments, candy wrappers, etc. Between the two, collectible is the more accurate term for this page, as the coins and gold attained in the games arguably have intrinsic value.
#Collectible is generally the more well-known term, per [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=collectable%2C+collectible&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccollectable%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ccollectible%3B%2Cc0 Google Ngrams].

That's my two cents (ha ha). Thoughts? -- <font face="Vivaldi"><font size="4">''Her Majesty, [[User:Queen Junko|Queen]] [[User_talk:Queen Junko|Junko]]'',</font></font> 20:45, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
:According to dictionary.com, they are just alternative spellings of the same word. However, I'm inclined to agree that collectible is the more commonly used spelling, so it should be used. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  20:52, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
::Yeah, "collectable" is more commonly used when discussing sets and the like. '''Support'''. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 23:00, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
Moving this early tomorrow if no one else has anything to say. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 15:44, 16 June 2017 (EDT)

== Digit grouping ==

For those who replaced the spaces with commas, please read [[wikipedia:Decimal mark#Digit grouping]] for why spaces are better. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 06:15, 10 July 2017 (EDT)
:What does the game use though? That's far more important. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Le Grand Fromage 06:44, 10 July 2017 (EDT)

:: The Wii U PAL version does not use digit grouping at all. We should not copy this since it makes the numbers harder to read at a glance. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 06:49, 10 July 2017 (EDT)

== SSBM Zelda / Sheik Gold Bug ==

I've noticed that when playing as Zelda / Sheik in Melee, the amount of gold that is counted in a match is independently linked to each fighter (meaning the player could accumulate 5 gold as Zelda and 8 gold as Sheik, but depending on which fighter the player ends the match as changes how much gold they will earn). Would it make sense to add this fact to this page, to the SSBM Zelda / Sheik pages, or does this info seem unnecessary? [[User:L0Z741|L0Z741]] ([[User talk:L0Z741|talk]]) 20:07, November 11, 2022 (EST)
:I think it'd be good to mention it. The Melee section may be the best place to put it. Not sure about adding it to Zelda or Sheik's pages. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 20:11, November 11, 2022 (EST)

== Smash Ultimate VS match Gold mechanics confusion ==

It looks like the mechanics for counting Gold from VS matches in Ultimate aren't very straightforward, and not as simple as "each human player input". [https://www.youtube.com/@Arahpthos/videos @Arahpthos] tested a bunch of things with an Arduino while speedrunning Unlock All Characters (source: Smash speedrunning discord), and I also tested some things with my own scripts.

Arahpthos' tests:
* Using an Arduino to spam crouches as one player for 2 minutes (while the other player is a human player who does nothing) yields 550 gold.
* Both players spamming crouches yields 1030 gold.
* One crouch spammer versus a level 9 CPU yields 700 gold.
* One crouch spammer versus a level 9 CPU in Giant Bunny Metal Heavy Fast custom smash yields 730 gold.
* Two crouch spammers plus any number of CPUs in a free-for-all still yields 1030 gold.
* One crouch spammer versus a two-player team consisting of a crouch spammer and a CPU yields 1100 gold.
* Circling through Shulk's Monado Arts yields 0 gold.

My tests:
* Crouching 100 times (bring the control stick all the way down, then release it back to neutral, then repeat) always yields about 90 gold.
* Dash-dancing yields 0 gold.
* Jumping 5 times per player with either 1, 2, or 3 players yields 5 gold.
* Doing absolutely nothing in a 2-minute match against a level 9 CPU yields 2 gold.
* A CPU-only match yields 0 gold.

A few things seem to contradict each other here.

As a final note, Arahpthos asserts that the in-battle action count (for tracking character unlocks) is correlated to VS match gold (with the apparent exception of No Contest matches, which yield 0 gold but still count toward character unlocks, which was one of my tests for the [[Unlockable character]] article). That is, the assertion says that as long as everything is done inside VS matches and no matches are quit, you could replace the in-battle action count column with a Gold earned column (potentially with different numbers) and it would still be correct. I don't have enough proof for this, and I know in-battle actions outside of VS matches still count but have different Gold formulas, so to explain things more easily I decided to go with an in-battle action count column instead of a Gold column. (e.g. you can earn 252 gold from Classic Mode and still not have enough to unlock Ness, but 100 crouches afterward gives you enough, so Classic Mode's inputs must have counted despite using a different Gold formula that doesn't work well with the table)

[[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 02:37, June 17, 2023 (EDT)
:A few years ago I was grinding gold to test something in the Shop and used a phone app (no longer works) that could simulate Switch controller inputs. I found that spamming "up" with tap-jump disabled yielded more than crouch spamming; think you could hypothetically get 1 gold every 2 frames (up -> neutral -> up -> neutral etc.). My guess is that the count is closer to 1 gold per "input that could perform an action", that is if you spam forward smash during another forward smash, only the first forward smash counts until the animation is over. Similarly you need to wait for the crouch to finish before you can get another gold from crouching again. Granted, this was a while back so I may have forgotten details or wasn't as thorough with my testing. [https://i.imgur.com/jluSSts.png This is probably all that I documented] (the dash-dance I mention is closer to fox-trotting), no clue how long I ran these but I think the last one was over night. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 05:07, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

::Ah, the double whammy of "discord posts can't be used as citation links" + "imgur is deleting uploads", the bane of all game documentation. Thanks for the info and for the better quality image upload; I've added it to the article.
::For the record, I've heard of the no-longer-working phone app; the replacement script I'm using is [https://github.com/Brikwerk/nxbt/pull/110].
::About the "wait for the crouch to finish" guess, interestingly, I'm getting some results counter to that. When I crouch 100 times at a rate of 1 per second (down for 0.5 seconds, neutral for 0.5 seconds), so that there's very obviously exactly 100 crouches, I get 90 gold. But when I crouch 100 times at a rate of 5 per second (down for 0.1 seconds, neutral for 0.1 seconds), I consistently count only 80-90 crouches on-screen (presumably the inputs are coming in too fast or some might be dropped), yet I still get 90 gold.
::[[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 19:05, June 17, 2023 (EDT)
:::I immediately put the imgur link into archive.org, just in case. Again, this was a while ago and I was more focused on the data for a different project so I'm not sure if what I said is accurate&mdash;I'd verify everything I've said to be safe. A likely reason I used up inputs instead of down inputs was so that I didn't have to hear crouching noises repeatedly or see something move in the corner of my eye while I did other stuff. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:32, June 17, 2023 (EDT)
::::Did a few more interesting tests:
::::* Crouching 200 times as one player in a 3-player free-for-all match (where the other 2 players do nothing) yielded 147 gold, compared to 180 gold in a 2-player match.
::::* Spamming 90-100 Fox Blasters where all of them hit the opponent yields 0 gold. (I tested once at 5 per second and once at 1 per second.)
::::* Jumping 100 times with the control stick yields 90 gold.
::::* Jumping 100 times with the X button yields 0 gold.
::::* Crouching 100 times by bringing the control stick 70% of the way down instead of 100% yields 90 gold.
::::My conclusion is that only control stick inputs are counted, and they don't have to be all the way to the edge to count. (This still doesn't answer everything though.) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 15:18, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
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@@ Line 68: / Line 68: @@
 ::::* Jumping 100 times with the X button yields 0 gold.
 ::::* Crouching 100 times by bringing the control stick 70% of the way down instead of 100% yields 90 gold.
-::::* Up-smashing 100 times with the right stick (all the attacks miss) yields 90 gold.
+::::My conclusion is that only control stick inputs are counted, and they don't have to be all the way to the edge to count. (This still doesn't answer everything though.) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 15:18, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
-::::My conclusion is that only stick inputs are counted, and they don't have to be all the way to the edge to count. (This still doesn't answer everything though.) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 15:18, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
-:::::In the article I put "approximately 60% away from the center", but from testing I got slightly inconsistent results for each direction:
-:::::* Side inputs seem to start counting at 54-55%, even though it is possible to walk with less than this.
-:::::* Down inputs seem to start counting at 47-49%, which is not enough to crouch.
-:::::* Up inputs seem to start counting at ~58%.
-:::::The threshold seems to be slightly inconsistent(?) between tests even though this is the kind of thing a bot shouldn't be able to screw up, so just for safety I put "approximately 60% away to count" in the article. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 23:34, June 28, 2023 (EDT)
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