Editing Talk:Ganon, The Demon King

== Continuity Error ==

Should it be mentioned that while Ganondorf lacks his glowing scar from Twilight Princess, Beast Ganon has it? [[User:The Inker|The Inker]] 01:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

== Small error in description ==

Ganondorf actually can kill himself with this move. If used on top of a falling block platform with nothing below him, the block will fall during the final smash animation and after the final smash has occured, Ganondorf will be warped to the location of the block (i.e. off the screen) and SD. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:74.192.153.219|74.192.153.219]] ([[User talk:74.192.153.219|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/74.192.153.219|contribs]]) 16:40, April 26, 2008 (UTC)</small>

==Was that right?==

I just added a trophy picture. Did i do it right? It was my first time, so I just wanted to know if that was right. [[User:~Darkness|~Darkness]] ([[User talk:~Darkness|talk]]) 19:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:Looks fine to me. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Toomai|cntrbs]]</small> 20:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, thanks. [[User:~Darkness|~Darkness]] ([[User talk:~Darkness|talk]]) 06:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Move ==

I '''oppose''' moving the page, and instead I would '''propose that the pages be split''' on the grounds that the final smash in Ultimate seems to be quite distinct from the old final smash in Brawl and SSB4. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 17:42, 9 July 2018 (EDT)

I '''Support''' moving the page, and oppose a split. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 19:20, 9 July 2018 (EDT)

I '''Support the split'''. [[User:George Jones|George Jones]] ([[User talk:George Jones|talk]]) 22:32, 9 July 2018 (EDT)

I've already explained this to you, Alex: ''the same move does not deserve a page split''. A design change doesn't mean it's a different Final Smash altogether. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 23:51, 9 July 2018 (EDT)

See, making a claim that it "seems to be" distinct already disproves its validity. [[SW:NOT#SmashWiki is not speculative|SmashWiki is not speculative]]. That said, I '''support''' ''moving'' the page. [[File:034.png|20px]] '''<span style="font-family:Algerian">[[User:DracoRexKing|<font color="red">DracoRex,]]</font> [[User talk:DracoRexKing|<font color="olive">Creator of the Land]]</font></span>''' 00:10, 10 July 2018 (EDT)

'''Maintain page under current title for now'''; if the two moves have no substantial gameplay difference, move to the SSBU name after we're sure it's finalized. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:19, 11 July 2018 (EDT)

I'm going to make it a redirect for the time being, since it is a name that Sakurai and Nintendo are using. We will wait until the official release of the game to move it over. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 00:00, 12 July 2018 (EDT)

I '''Support''' moving and '''oppose''' a split. I don't think there's really much to wait for, we've seen the entirety of the final smash. If it does end up being changed in a major way, which I doubt, then we can move it accordingly. [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 04:25, 20 July 2018 (EDT)

I've seen this debate before, specifically on the Doom Wiki. The final boss of Doom 1 was renamed from "Spiderdemon" to "Spider Mastermind" when it reappeared in Doom 2. Doom Wiki decided that their wiki policy was that articles would be named after the earliest name, in this case Spiderdemon. Now we have this debate again in the Smash Wiki. Will we stick to the earliest name out of principle? The most recent name? Will we pick the name that Nintendo declares is official? Most likely not that last one, given how many other articles are referred to by their most common fandom name (Tech over Breakfall, L-Cancel over Smooth Landing) so will we use that as the policy going forward? [[Special:Contributions/99.46.176.64|99.46.176.64]] 19:13, 21 July 2018 (EDT)
:[[SW:OFFICIAL|SmashWiki is not official]], but in the context of a moveset, we don't take fannames. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 21:38, 21 July 2018 (EDT)
::"We don't take fannames" [[Gentleman|Although]] [[L-canceling|you]] [[Tech|have]]. And yes, I did read the article you linked. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like it will help us, because now we have two official names instead of an official-vs-fanname. So, are we going to be like Doom Wiki and use the earliest official? [[Special:Contributions/99.46.176.64|99.46.176.64]] 15:33, 23 July 2018 (EDT)
:::He said "in the context of a moveset". Those techniques aren't part of a basic moveset. A character's moveset is officially defined as any tilts, smash attacks, special attacks, aerials, get up attacks, etc. All these you linked are not part of a basic moveset. Although a gentleman can be considered a part of Falcon's moveset, it's only that, not an official full move. [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 17:31, 23 July 2018 (EDT)

I '''oppose the split though we should not move just yet'''. Per Miles. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 15:44, 23 July 2018 (EDT)

I '''oppose''' this article being moved or split because we don't have a sperate article for [[Silver Bow]] & [[Electroshock Arm]]. 
[[User:CaptainDabsalot]]
[[User Talk: CaptainDabsalot]] 10:26, 24 July 2018 (CST)
:Silver Bow and Electroshock Arm don't have separate pages because they're similar moves for a different character. This is the same move for a character, just with an apparently updated name. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 11:28, 24 July 2018 (EDT)

I '''Support''' the split. Ganon as a Boss should have own page, and split into '''Ganon (Final Smash)''' and '''Ganon''' or '''Beast Ganon''' and '''Ganon'''.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 09:48, 3 January 2019 (EST)

== Split ==

Ganon as a Boss should have own page like [[Giga Bowser]].[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 10:03, 24 January 2019 (EST)
:'''Support''': it doesn’t make sense why the two pages are combined.[[Special:Contributions/47.176.58.194|47.176.58.194]] 12:20, 29 January 2019 (EST)
<Br>
:'''Support''': I agree that is should be split to match Giga Bowser <br><font color="red">Preceding comment that was ptotally signed by [[user:CaptainDabsalot|CaptainDabsalot]] ([[user talk:CaptainDabsalot|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/CaptainDabsalot|Contribs]])</font> 09:27, 27 January 2019 (EST)
:'''Support''': Not only is Giga Bowser split between his boss and FS appearances, [[Rathalos]] is split between his AT/costume and [[Rathalos (SSBU)|boss]] appearances. [[Image:N64icon.jpg|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Courier; font-size:12pt">[[User:Nintendrone42|<span style="color:orange">intendrone</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Nintendrone42|<span style="color:black">42</span>]]</sup></span>''' 10:54, 27 January 2019 (EST)
:'''Support''': can somebody give me a good reason why the two pages were merged in the forst place?[[Special:Contributions/184.181.102.188|184.181.102.188]] 17:34, 29 January 2019 (EST)
:'''Support''': Yes it doesn't make sense for boss info to be placed in a final smash page. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164{{#if:|_({{{3}}})}}|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is a never lover boy  18:35, 29 January 2019 (EST)
:'''Support''': There's not much that really needs to be said. [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 22:31, 30 January 2019 (EST)

== Continuing discussion on Move ==

Have enough people supported the move to Ganon, the Demon King yet? I don't know why a discussion is necessary to make information more current, but I '''support''' a move, and also believe that this issue should have been resolved by now. [[User:KungFuLakitu|KungFuLakitu]], [[User talk:KungFuLakitu|Spiny Overlord]] 21:49, June 1, 2019 (EDT)
:SmashWiki is not official, personally I find "Beast Ganon" to be a more appealing, more concise name. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;border:outset #083 2px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;background:#ed0;padding:1px">Serpent</span>]][[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;background:#083;padding:1px">King</span>]]'''</span> 19:30, June 16, 2019 (EDT)
::I believe that no matter how "official" or not the wiki is, we should always use the most up to date term, no matter how attractive it looks. [[User:KungFuLakitu|KungFuLakitu]], [[User talk:KungFuLakitu|Spiny Overlord]] 00:03, June 19, 2019 (EDT)
:::Would it not make more sense to name it "Ganon (Final Smash)"? Considering "Ganon" is also a Boss? [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 19:32, June 25, 2019 (EDT)
::::No. The Ganon page is for the boss, and the move page is for the move, and because they're named differently, then they don't need to share a name with a distinguisher. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 19:34, June 25, 2019 (EDT)
:::::Oh. I thought it would have been better as it would have referred to both name simultaneously. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 19:38, June 25, 2019 (EDT)

== Move take seventy-seven ==

Frankly, it doesn't even look like the discussion was resolved to begin with, although I didn't read this conversation as thoroughly as I did [[Poltergust G-00]]. Either way, my argument is basically the same as it is on [[Talk:Poltergust G-00]] and I don't feel like repeating in great detail, so in summary:
#Not a single person in the real world is going to call this move "Ganon, The Demon King". It's gonna be "Beast Ganon" or "Ganon" because that actually sounds like an attack and not just Ganondorf breaking into Sakurai's studio at night to try to make himself sound cooler.
#This name sums up both iterations better, albeit less than Poltergust G-00; at least as far as I'm aware, though, the title "Demon King" is never used for any version of Beast Ganon except Ocarina of Time (and maybe Hyrule Warriors?) while Beast Ganon is at least common vernacular in the Zelda community if not ever an official name. This could also be a point in favor of just "Ganon", since that's canon across the board and popular in the community.
I have no preference for either Beast Ganon or Ganon, but Ganon, The Demon King is actually an awful page name so let's do something about it. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 16:59, July 21, 2020 (EDT)
:I prefer moving the page to [[Ganon (Final Smash)]], in a similar vein to Petey Piranha. "Beast Ganon" is sometimes used unofficially to refer to all his demonic incarnations but in the Zelda canon it refers only to the Twilight Princess appearance so I think it's no longer an appropriate title. --[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 06:39, August 21, 2020 (EDT)
::I think the page is fine as it is. Ganon, the Demon King is a perfectly fine name in my opinion, and while I know this wiki doesn't always abide by official names, that should only be in special circumstances where the fan name is much more commonly used by the Smash community than the official one is, such as how ukemi is constantly called teching. [[Special:Contributions/72.219.72.215|72.219.72.215]] 23:45, September 23, 2020 (EDT)
:::I don't see how "not a single person in the real world is going to call this move "Ganon, The Demon King"" is a valid point, because people will use abbreviations and other terms no matter where you go. The ''Street Fighter'' community (and maybe even the whole of the FGC, excluding ''Smash'') calls the [[Hadoken]] "Fireball", even using it to describe the control motion (i.e., "Fireball forward"). Even then, however, I believe you're also missing the part where "SmashWiki is not official" states to use a name if it's more accepted and it's ''different'' from the official name; a shorthand name is not different. That's why we have a page for [[Knee Smash]] (the official name) and note to the side that it is often shorthandedly referred to as just "the Knee".
:::That being said, however, I'd 100% be willing to propose that special move names should be the exception to "SmashWiki is not official" (especially given how we already function off of "don't give a move a name if it doesn't have one that isn't commonly accepted")...if it weren't for [[Mega Lucario]] and [[Mega Charizard X]] being different pages. Though, given that we've put [[Zero Laser]] into one page, I don't actually know how much of an issue that would be. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 00:14, September 24, 2020 (EDT)
::::Making move names (not just special moves; any moves) an exception to the "Smashwiki is not official" rule is a good idea. I wouldn't mind if the two Mega Evolution final smashes were merged into one page named "Mega Evolution" a la Zero Laser. [[Special:Contributions/72.219.72.215|72.219.72.215]] 19:58, September 24, 2020 (EDT)
:::::Vastly disagree with merging the megas. They are different transformations with different data and different uses. Keep them separate. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 20:04, September 24, 2020 (EDT)
::::::Though Mega Evolution is something they both use, they are different forms classified under the same concept. [[Mega Charizard X]] is not the same as [[Mega Lucario]] or [[Mega Mewtwo Y]]. Not even Charizard Y or Mewtwo X is the same as them or each other. I can see making a new page that explains Mega Evolution separate from the individual forms, but that would possibly be redundant of the Origin section on the page. I can see a page like the one that [[List_of_swords|list the Swords in Smash]] that list all the transformations or alternate forms which would include Giga Bowser, Ganon, Super Dragon, [[Torrential Roar]] (and Corrin's taunts and other attacks), [[Shadow Mario Paint|Shadow Mario ]], Mega Evolution, Ash-Greninja, [[Octopus]], [[Giga Mac]], and possibly even Zelda/Sheik or Samus' old FS, as they all transform during battle. Forms like Vulpix and Alolan Vulpix or the [[Prince of Sablé|Prince]] could even be in a small bullet point subsection like for the non-fighter related Swords on the sword list. It would be a bit of a blurb of what Mega Evolution is and who use it. Even Pokemon have the info tied to the individual Pokemon that it is rather than the transformation that takes place. One is not the other. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 03:27, September 25, 2020 (EDT)
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