Editing Talk:Flaws in artificial intelligence

== Classic mode AI ==

I played classic mode on very hard, and fought Young Link on Temple, but he always tried to evade me instead of approaching me and fighting. Anyone else got that? &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 08:35, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
:Melee's AI has always been shit. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 10:39, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
::Yes, but this is a particular kind of shit. That's very, very unusual behaviour. &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 11:47, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

I believe that certain level/difficulty combinations each have a particular AI behaviour, similar to how Fox avoids you in adventure mode's 6-1 and then gets in there in 6-2. Maybe you got unlucky with an evasion behaviour. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Orchestral 11:50, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

:If memory serves, Stage 5's opponent on Very Hard always runs away from the player instead of fighting. Similar behaviour occurs with Fox in the Adventure Mode, as outlined by Toomai above.

:--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>,  12:03, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

== Paper Mario - Bowser's Castle ==

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqTOPW6o0MQ This] happened on my game the other day. This was probably just a one-off, but looking at the Bowser's Castle part of the stage as a whole, there's probably lots of AI flaws to be found. Might be worth looking into. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 12:02, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

== ? ==

How is it a flaw that Yoshi doesn't use Egg Throw to recover? Isn't it more of a flaw that he ''would''? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 12:06, 8 November 2014 (EST)
:Egg Throw grants some minor vertical distance, and is Yoshi's best (only) vertical recovery. <font face="sand">''[[User:Qwerty|<font color="black">Qw</font><font color="003F3F">er</font><font color="005F5F">ty</font>]] ''[[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="005F6F">(t</font><font color="003C6F">al</font><font color="000F7F">k)</font>]]</font> 12:10, 8 November 2014 (EST)

== Flaws in SSB for 3DS? ==

I think I found some additional AI flaws in Smash for 3DS. I played 4-player smashes as [[Ike]] against three lv9 computers.
*Often a computer player tried to hit me although I had counter activated.
*CPUs using a [[Hammer]] or [[Golden Hammer]] don't avoid a [[Marth]] or [[Ike]] who spams his counter move.
*CPUs don't recognize if someone's Hammer is a Headless or Squeaky Hammer, they still try to avoid the hammering player instead of attacking him, but they recognize the Hammer's head as a throwable item.
*They NEVER [[edge guarding|edge guard]] me correctly when I'm recovring with Ikes aether move. If a CPU stands near the stage's ledge  while I use aether to recover, I always damage him.
*A CPU Falco or Fox sometimes SDs with his Landmaster.
*They often use their shields against Hammers although a Hammer's hit can cause an instand shield break.
*In the Bowser's Castle section of [[Paper Mario]] they often SD, especially when the stage changes from ship to Bowser's castle.

Sorry if my English is too bad, I'm from Austria :-D [[User:Mariofan13|Mariofan13]] ([[User talk:Mariofan13|talk]]) 11:51, 16 January 2015 (EST)
:Here are my responses for each of those:
:#CPUs try to hit you regardless.
:#They'll hit anyone they can.
:#Already noted in ''Brawl''.
:#They never do that anyways.
:#Also in ''Brawl''.
:#They'll avoid anything they can by any means possible.
:#Already noted.
:In short, some of those aren't flaws, and some are already mentioned. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 12:03, 16 January 2015 (EST)

::Okay, tank you :) [[User:Mariofan13|Mariofan13]] ([[User talk:Mariofan13|talk]]) 12:05, 16 January 2015 (EST)
:::Point 3 (CPUs try to avoid players using a HEadless or Squeaky Hammer) wasn't noted in ''Brawl'' so I added it. In ''SSB4'' a note about these flaws was missing too. [[User:Mariofan13|Mariofan13]] ([[User talk:Mariofan13|talk]]) 12:53, 16 January 2015 (EST)

== Split page ==

This thing is getting pretty bloated. It looks like it should be split into pages based on game (e.g. [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSB)]], [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBM)]], [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBB)]] etc.)--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 01:40, 19 January 2015 (EST)
:Well, after my HUGE edit on the Smash 4 section, I would agree. [[File:NidokingMS.png|20px|link=]] [[User:MightyKing98|<font color="olive">'''Mighty'''</font><font color="purple">'''King'''</font>]][[User talk:MightyKing98|<font color="red">'''98'''</font>]] 09:42, 19 January 2015 (EST)
:EDIT: I think it would be better to keep this page for the main paragraphs about how the AI behaves generally in each game, while making another for specific flaws. Then, we could also list with headings whether these are character-specific flaws, for all of them, with stages/items, etc. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:MightyKing98|MightyKing98]] ([[User talk:MightyKing98|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MightyKing98|contribs]]) 08:51, January 19, 2015 (CST)</small>

This page is an egregious wall of text. Splitting it into better organized subpages and subsections would definitely be a good step; I'd also advocate making more of an effort to include gifs or links to videos in order to better illustrate the examples (and decrease the wall of text-ness of the page). [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 09:57, 19 January 2015 (EST)

It's been done, voice any objects to the titles of each of the pages or the new one of this page. ([[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSB)]] [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBM)]] [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBB)]] [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSB4)]])--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 05:16, 22 January 2015 (EST)

== Project M flaws? ==

There are many flaws in the PM AI and I think it deserves its own page. I can name a ton. [[User:Easyaspi314|Easyaspi314]] ([[User talk:Easyaspi314|talk]]) 16:39, 24 August 2015 (EDT)

:Firstly, new topics go at the bottom of the page. Secondly, I agree. '''Support'''. [[User:LittleMacmain97|LittleMacmain97]], the [[Little Mac|World Circuit]] is mine! ([[User talk:LittleMacmain97|Talk]]) 16:50, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
::PM content is not allowed in the mainspace outside of very specific contexts. A page regarding PM's AI problems is not allowed under the current setup. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:18, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
:::'''Support''' At the risk of sounding like an Ad Hominem I honestly don't understand why you hate PM content on the wiki so much, Miles. I mean is having one article going to say take up so much server space as to prevent other information from being on the site?--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 21:31, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
::::It's not that he hates it; it's that [[Forum:The Project M debate|this]] exists. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 21:33, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
:::::That being said, I'm with Miles here. In the words of Phoenix Wright, "Objection!" [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 21:35, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
::::::I am 100% against a PM flaws page. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 01:00, 25 August 2015 (EDT)

== Moving paragraphs here ==

Seeing how this page is rather small while the specific AI flaws ones are totally bloated with information (all except the ''SSB'' one exceed 32 KB), would it be better if we moved all the main paragraphs here and explained in a shorter way how the AI changed between games, while just keeping the tables in the specific games' pages? [[File:Badass Nidoking.png|20px]] [[User:DracoRexKing|<font color="blue">'''Draco'''</font><font color="red">'''Rex'''</font>]][[User talk:DracoRexKing|<font color="purple">'''King'''</font>]] 01:28, 30 August 2015 (EDT)

Ok, nobody disagreed, so I'll be doing that now. [[File:Badass Nidoking.png|20px]] [[User:DracoRexKing|<font color="blue">'''Draco'''</font><font color="red">'''Rex'''</font>]][[User talk:DracoRexKing|<font color="purple">'''King'''</font>]] 13:01, 30 August 2015 (EDT)

== GIFs ==

I think someone should add 2 GIFs to smash 64, and 1 more gif for Brawl and 4.

Thanks, --[[User:Frodomar|Frodomar]] ([[User talk:Frodomar|talk]]) 13:25, 21 November 2015 (EST)

: Just added the 2 Smash64 GIFs you asked for. [[User:Sir Glazington|Sir Glazington]] ([[User talk:Sir Glazington|talk]]) 15:14, 15 December 2015 (EST)

Someone should also retake and reupload the Fox gif so it isn't in such potato quality; that framerate is just atrocious. The video the gif is from is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-b3tCc3sn0 here]. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:46, 21 November 2015 (EST)
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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Classic mode AI ==
@@ Line 50: / Line 48: @@
 This thing is getting pretty bloated. It looks like it should be split into pages based on game (e.g. [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSB)]], [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBM)]], [[List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBB)]] etc.)--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 01:40, 19 January 2015 (EST)
-:Well, after my HUGE edit on the Smash 4 section, I would agree. [[User:MightyKing98|<font color="olive">'''Mighty'''</font><font color="purple">'''King'''</font>]][[User talk:MightyKing98|<font color="red">'''98'''</font>]] 09:42, 19 January 2015 (EST)
+:Well, after my HUGE edit on the Smash 4 section, I would agree. [[File:NidokingMS.png|20px|link=]] [[User:MightyKing98|<font color="olive">'''Mighty'''</font><font color="purple">'''King'''</font>]][[User talk:MightyKing98|<font color="red">'''98'''</font>]] 09:42, 19 January 2015 (EST)
 :EDIT: I think it would be better to keep this page for the main paragraphs about how the AI behaves generally in each game, while making another for specific flaws. Then, we could also list with headings whether these are character-specific flaws, for all of them, with stages/items, etc. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:MightyKing98|MightyKing98]] ([[User talk:MightyKing98|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MightyKing98|contribs]]) 08:51, January 19, 2015 (CST)</small>
@@ Line 83: / Line 81: @@
 Someone should also retake and reupload the Fox gif so it isn't in such potato quality; that framerate is just atrocious. The video the gif is from is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-b3tCc3sn0 here]. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:46, 21 November 2015 (EST)
-: There, I just re-did that gif at 12 FPS. [[User:Sir Glazington|Sir Glazington]] ([[User talk:Sir Glazington|talk]]) 21:02, 15 December 2015 (EST)
-== Contradictions between lead section and Ultimate section ==
-The first section contains generalizations about all games (which in one instance was even updated to refer to "all five games", unless it got that number by counting 3DS and Wii U separately) saying that they never use advanced techniques and never change their playstyle. This is contradicted by the Ultimate section which notes that the AI in that game has in fact been upgraded to actually do those things.[[Special:Contributions/72.105.180.216|72.105.180.216]] 15:54, 11 January 2019 (EST)
-== Found a flaw for Ultimate's Giga Bowser. Should we add it? ==
-https://youtu.be/6zBsG54xdgE?t=479 Giga Bowser broke Captain Falcon's shield and didn't even do anything; Giga Bowser just stood there until Captain Falcon snapped out of it. Should we add it to the list? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:49, May 7, 2019 (EDT)
-:bump [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 00:19, May 9, 2019 (EDT)
-::Still waiting for an answer. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 12:01, May 19, 2019 (EDT)
-:::If you can recreate it, I would assume that adding it is alright. Just make sure that Prosafia's clip wasn't a one time thing. [[User:KungFuLakitu|KungFuLakitu]], [[User talk:KungFuLakitu|Spiny Overlord]] 14:01, May 19, 2019 (EDT)
-==Brawl AI behavior in free-for-alls==
-While it's been known that the AI treats human players as the main target, there's something I noticed in my experiments: The AI seems to target the human at the start of a match, but about halfway through the match I was in 3rd/4th and the CPUs began ignoring me and instead targeting the leading CPU with the most damage. During this period also, any CPU with a dragoon or final smash instead targeted the CPU in 1st place. So it seems the CPUs are actually programmed to target the 1st place player, which often times is the human player, and while still a flaw this would make more sense
-instead of targeting only the human player.
-Of course one user's opinion is not enough and unfortunately I have nothing to record video proof so if anyone else can clarify if this is true or not it would be appreciated.[[User: supatoad64|<span style="color:blue;"> '''SupaToad64''' </span>]] [[ Image: MK64ToadCSP.jpg|15px ]] 06:19, June 10, 2019 (EDT)
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