Editing Talk:Final Destination (SSBU)

==Deletion==
'''Oppose''' deletion; I don't have the timestamp handy, but I believe it was confirmed during Treehouse Live that SSBU has a separate Final Destination and that the Battlefield omega from the E3 demo was a placeholder. Given that, and the fact that it's likely (although not yet confirmed) that [[:File:SSBUWebsiteBlackHole3.jpg|this]] is FD given its similarity to other incarnations of FD and lack of indication of it being any other stage, I don't think it's too early to make this. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:31, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
:Well at its core, the assumption that the stage in that screenshot is FD is a speculation. "We don't know what else it could be" does not really work as proof for me. Nevertheless I'll restore this if there is to be a discussion here. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 16:44, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
::I put deletion on the page on the grounds that A. we don't have anything to go off of other than speculation and B. the only noteworthy thing about this is that it was made as Battlefield's omega in E3 to hide its true design. I'm again going to say that this page feels like it was made just for the sake of making it. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:03, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
<s>I also '''oppose''' deletion, because when the time comes in which we actually know about the Final Destination in this game, I believe it would be easier to expand on this article rather than restoring it. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 20:43, 28 July 2018 (EDT)</s>

'''Strong support'''. It's not hard to restore a page, and this article sounds very speculative and unprofessional. If we removed the speculation, it would have no information at all. It's not worth making a page yet when we haven't seen the stage. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 21:59, 28 July 2018 (EDT)

'''Support'''. The existence of this page literally goes against the big notice banner on top of the website that's visible everywhere. If there's ONE reason to keep the article, it'd be that deleting it and creating it back later seems a bit redundant. But by all accounts, the article shouldn't have been created in the first place. --[[User:Gabo 2oo|Gabo 2oo]] ([[User talk:Gabo 2oo|talk]]) 21:58, 29 July 2018 (EDT)

I now '''support''' deletion for the reasons above. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 22:19, 29 July 2018 (EDT)

'''Support''' As do I. This article, at the moment, is going against our "no speculation" rule. [[File:SSB4DarkSonicHead.png|17px|link=User:SonicSpeed48]][[User talk:SonicSpeed48|<font color="navyblue">''Speed'''''48'''</font>]] 13:33, 30 July 2018 (EDT)

'''Support''' deletion for the same reason as pretty much everyone else above me. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.91.93|72.133.91.93]] 08:51, 31 July 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105

'''Support''': We know that the game will have a Final Destination, and that it's not the one in the demo. That's literally all the info we have to work with at the moment. As the main banner says: "Do not create tiny pages just so the page exists." '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 08:57, 31 July 2018 (EDT)

'''Oppose''' deletion because this Final Destination has some very notable differences that the naked eye can see, such as it's smaller platform. Infact, there is now gameplay of Final Destination showcasing the full background if anyone is interested in documenting that. [[File:MrGame%26WatchHeadSSB4-U.png|17px|]] [[User:Dense|Dense]]  1:55, November 7 2018 (EDT)
:The deletion was already solved a good three months before you posted this. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 12:34, April 11, 2019 (EDT)

== Merge ==

'''Support''' I personally believe that although each game has its own Final Destination they are really just the same only being different by the way they look so they don't each need their own article unlike fighters which can change drastically between games. <br> [[user:CaptainDabsalot|CaptainDabsalot]] ([[user talk:CaptainDabsalot|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions|Contributoins]]) 12:44, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:'''Strong Oppose''' See my comment on [[Talk:Battlefield (SSBU)]] for my reason of opposition. [[File:George Jones.jpg|25px]] [[User:Corrin Fan|Corrin Fan]] [[File:Walls Can Fall.jpg|25px]] 12:50, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:'''Oppose'''. I think this proposal demonstrates a lack of understanding of how articles on the wiki work. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 13:45, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:'''Oppose'''. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:54, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:'''Strong Oppose''' I count my vote to be the same as the one on [[Talk:Battlefield (SSBU)]], plus the bit about merging all fighter articles still applies. [[File:SonicSpeed48ThanksgivingSig4.png|17px]][[User:SonicSpeed48|<span style="color: gold;">'''Sonic'''</span>]], [[User talk:SonicSpeed48|<span style="color: brown;">'''the Thankful Speedster'''</span>]][[File:FallLovingTigger.png|17px]] 13:59, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:'''Oppose'''. Per the reasons here and on [[Talk:Battlefield (SSBU)]]. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 11:04, 11 November 2018 (EST)
Going to end this discussion in a day or two if no one has anything else to say. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 13:44, 15 November 2018 (EST)

==Split==
'''Oppose-ish''' - I don't have ''Ultimate'' yet, but if it's an area like Molten Fortress and Gourmet Race, then sure. Otherwise, I don't see a point splitting this page. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 21:29, 1 March 2019 (EST)
:I don't have the game either, but apparently it's just Final Destination with more platforms added. <span style="color:lightblue">'''Everone123'''</span> [[File:Everone123 Sig.png|20px]] ([[User:Everone123|u]] / [[User talk:Everone123|t]] / [[Special:Contributions/Everone123|c]]) 22:05, 1 March 2019 (EST)

'''Support''' - Considering how Subspace stages got their own page, this deserves a page as well. While it looks similar to Final Destination, it lacks the decorations on the back, has 4 extra platforms, and the new page would even accomodate both the upwards scrolling section and the boss select arena. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:13, 2 March 2019 (EST)
:Can you provide examples? The stages I see are the ones that are Subspace-exclusive. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 12:16, 2 March 2019 (EST)
::[[Template: SSBBStages]] [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:26, 2 March 2019 (EST)
:::I think those stages are different than WoL stages, in that they are all side scrollers and have barely any connection to any playable stages. On the other hand, all the other stages in WoL, from what I've seen, have many similarities with their playable counterparts. I'm still opposed, but on the other hand I don't have the game, so my reasoning may be flawed. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 12:31, 2 March 2019 (EST)
::::There actually is a side-scrolling stage in WoL, which would be part of the new page (as both are boss stages for Galeem and Dharkon) [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 13:23, 2 March 2019 (EST)

Nah. We don't have an article for all of Melee's adventure mode stages, we don't need them for this either. Before you ask, yes, the adventure mode stages in Melee differ substantially from their counter parts in VS mode. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 13:30, 2 March 2019 (EST)
:[[Underground Maze]]? [[Brinstar Escape Shaft]]? [[Mushroom Kingdom (Adventure Mode)]]? [[F-Zero Grand Prix]]? [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 00:37, 6 March 2019 (EST)

'''Weak support''' There is minimal differences and the boss battles there may warrant a new article. [[File:George Jones.jpg|25px]] [[User:White Lightning|White Lightning]] [[File:Walls Can Fall.jpg|25px]] 11:33, April 11, 2019 (EDT)

'''Oppose'''. It's literally just Final Destination with extra details, and about the Subspace point, none of them resemble any Vs. stage. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 12:35, April 11, 2019 (EDT)

'''Support.''' I think this might be the only singleplayer-exclusive stage ''not'' to have its own article, so I think a split makes sense. Besides, if the different versions of Final Destination can each get their own article despite having the same basic layout, I don't see why Galeem's Residence (or whatchamacallit) ''doesn't'' deserve its own article. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 02:01, May 31, 2019 (EDT)
:I didn’t even consider that the other Final Destinations were split when this and the boss stage are still merged. Honestly, that gives some pretty overwhelming evidence that we should split them. Why should a bunch of conceptually the same stages be split if a boss stage gets merged with a playable stage simply because “they look similar”? Look at it from a player’s standpoint: the stage has a different layout, is not playable,  and like you mentioned, is the only singleplayer stage to not have its own article yet. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 02:09, May 31, 2019 (EDT)

Going with '''weak oppose'''. This isn't like how Tabuu's Residence was a completely different area from Brawl's Final Destination despite the same layout (and even then it's only a subsection within The Great Maze's article), it's literally just Ultimate's Final Destination with some extra platforms slapped on it and maybe some different backgrounds. Otherwise, you could make the case for Master Fortress having its own article separate from Smash 4's Final Destination and Master Core. Mentions of the additions in this article as well as on Galeem and Dharkon's pages ought to be enough. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 02:54, June 1, 2019 (EDT)
:When I say the boss stage, I’m referring to all five of its variants. Galeem’s Residence, Darkhon’s Residence, Galeem/Dharkhon’s Residence, and the Boss Rush Waiting Room I could see staying merged because they do admittedly share a lot with FD. However, remember that there’s a vertical scrolling stage right before the boss rush arena for the final battle? The one where you fight light and dark copies of every single character? That stage doesn’t resemble Final Destination at all aside from maybe using the same platform at the very beginning. That’s the main reason I want to split the page. I could see arguments for the other variants of the boss arena probably, but this one should be split, and I was suggesting moving the other four variants with it. This specific part of the boss arena also uses a specific order for every puppet fighter I believe (I don’t remember what the exact order was at the moment), so again, that warrants at least that specific section of the boss stage being moved. The area where Galeem, Darkhon, and the boss rush are actually fought would just move there because of their relation to this vertical stage. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 04:10, June 1, 2019 (EDT)

Ok, so there have been some very valid points regarding that the area where Galeem and Darkhon are actually fought should stay merged because it shares a lot of design elements with Final Destination. However, I should probably mention again that [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ArlzFHY9Ij0 there is a vertical scrolling section] for the final battle before the real fight. It even has a specific order for when every puppet fighter is fought, as well as the fact that the page could even use images depicting the whole thing because it’s so large (plus, it stops every so often, so it should be fairly easy to get the main areas). This was the main reason why I wanted to split the page, though understandably it seemed like everyone thought I was only referring to the actual boss fight stage. However, if we do split this page by virtue of the scrolling puppet fighter slaughter fest, we should split the other Adventure Mode variants of Final Destination and put it on the new page. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 00:56, June 3, 2019 (EDT)

==Noted things similar to this== 
<spam removed>

== Proof ==

That one piece of trivia stating that the left and right blast lines are slightly uneven, is there any proof of that? [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 15:20, December 28, 2020 (EST)
:[https://rubendal.github.io/ssbu/#/Stage/Final%20Destination Ruben's visualizer] shows the right blast zone as being 0.000031 units further from the center. The right ledge is also 0.0107 units closer to the center, making the right ledge a total of 0.0107031 units further from the blast zone than the left. I tested Mario's Bthrow on Bowser (no DI, at the ledge) and got no difference in kill%, so that point is dubious (maybe with weak attacks it is true). --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 15:55, December 28, 2020 (EST)

== Splitting off page for WoL’s final level/its scrolling section ==

I should start by saying that I did see that a similar topic was discussed here earlier about whether to split off the different variations of FD used for the Galeem and Dharkon fights due to their unique backgrounds and platform arrangement. Fwiw to that question I’d say I don’t think those should get their own article because they’re clearly just variations of the game’s FD.

However, I think it wasn’t focused on enough in that thread that the first phase of WoL’s final level is a scrolling section not unlike what the SSE had (it even has the same Kirby-style screen lockdowns along the way), and its only real resemblance to FD is the very first platform, while the scrolling section goes on for several minutes past that.

It really seems like if the unique platforming stages from Melee’s Adventure Mode and all the stages of the SSE get their own articles, it would make sense in terms of consistency for there to be an article either for this scrolling section of the final stage in particular or one for the final stage as a whole (the scrolling, the boss rush, and the final battle). I realize this final stage itself doesn’t have an official name, but I don’t think that would prevent a page from being made.

Is this something we can discuss again and reevaluate? [[User:Pk62001|Pk62001]] ([[User talk:Pk62001|talk]]) 00:35, October 8, 2022 (EDT)
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