Editing Talk:Dr. Mario (SSBU)

== Wasn't Doc technically in the World of Light trailer since he's just Mario in different clothing? ==

Self explanatory [[User:DrFault|DrFault]] ([[User talk:DrFault|talk]]) 11:11, 19 November 2018 (EST)

== Citation needed on Super Sheet reflecting projectiles upward ==

From what I can tell, the claim on this page that Super Sheet now reflects projectiles upward is based on its new animation and this moment in a Treehouse video: https://youtu.be/6NSVL2Tc8b0?t=38

However, if you advance frame-by-frame, you'll realize that the Launch Star is behaving normally, unaffected by Super Sheet, and Super Sheet hasn't even been fully deployed by the time it is launched upward. Additionally, this Launch Star approached Doc from behind, yet didn't shoot upward until it was ahead of him.

While I haven't been able to find footage of the Super Sheet actually reflecting something yet, nowhere but Smashwiki is reporting this change, and some who already have the game are claiming otherwise.

This seems like an outlandish change and a significant nerf. Citation needed.

- {{User:Contra}}

:I put up a warning flag for it. Look out for anything. Please make sure to sign your comments correctly though. (four tildes at the end, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 18:19, 2 December 2018 (EST)
::After doing thorough testing, I can confirm that Super Sheet DOES NOT reflect upwards, and instead functions exactly the same as it always has. Thanks for alerting us to this. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 22:10, 7 December 2018 (EST)

== Should Dr. Mario get a "Differences from" section? ==

Even though he's not classified as an Echo Fighter, he's still classified as a clone on his page. Should we treat him like one? [[User:SammyTFM|SammyTFM]] ([[User talk:SammyTFM|talk]]) 15:09, 7 December 2018 (EST)

No. He is not a clone in Ultimate because he has a lot of changes from Mario in gameplay, in a much greater fashion than all echo fighters, even Ken. We can compare him to Mario in the Moveset section. Falco and co. don't have a differences from section. --[[Special:Contributions/86.163.150.33|86.163.150.33]] 16:18, 4 January 2019 (EST)

Characters can still be clones without being considered echo fighters. Dr. Mario is a prime example of this. [[User:SammyTFM|SammyTFM]] ([[User talk:SammyTFM|talk]]) 17:56, 11 January 2019 (EST)

The standard of what makes a clone a clone changes per game, and can't be judged by attack animations alone. Dr Mario in Ultimate was officially stated to not be an echo because of his distinct ability differences, which echoes lack. He is also balanced and developed as if he was a unique character instead of relative to Mario, which is evidenced by his altered equipment stats, new moves and separate balance patches. In comparison, Lucina and Dark Pit got all the changes that Marth and Pit got and even lost some differences.--[[User:Starcrystal45|Starcrystal45]] ([[User talk:Starcrystal45|talk]]) 13:24, 12 January 2019 (EST)

Keep it. There shouldn’t be any debate. The “Dr. Mario isn’t a clone” people would have their “point” about”Dr. Mario not being a clone” proven with this section[[Special:Contributions/184.181.102.188|184.181.102.188]] 14:49, 12 January 2019 (EST)

We can just simply say why he isn’t an echo fighter on his Attributes section. Same with Falco and co. It’s not that hard to say that “Because of his vastly different physical attributes affecting his gameplay, Dr Mario is not classed as an Echo Fighter.”  Differences from Mario can be covered in this Moveset section to keep it consistent with the other non echoes. --[[Special:Contributions/86.156.239.219|86.156.239.219]] 08:12, 13 January 2019 (EST)

Ken also has different attributes (and it doesn’t matter how similar the rest of his attributes are, the fact that he runs faster breaks the “different attributes” rule entirely). And none of Chrom and Lucina’s moves are 1:1 except their counters and their throws. Just give it up memoryman. “Echo” is a confusing, meaningless term (and frankly, I’d have preferred if the term didn’t exist, but here we are). Dr. Mario is only not classified as an echo because Sakurai said so. Also, about Falco and co. not having a “differences from” section, I’d argue that some of them need it. We’ve already (meaninglessly) discussed Dr. Mario to death, but most of Isabelle’s moves are completely ripped from villager aside from her smash attacks and 2 specials. People are going to want to know how her slingshot is different. Many people still don’t know how Ness and Lucas are different, despite being so unique from each other.  Asme with Fox and Falco, or Pichu and Pikachu, orToon Link and Young Link. There are exceptions where people will clearly tell the difference, such as Luigi, Ganondorf, and Wolf, but having a “differences” section wouldn’t hurt for the others. [[Special:Contributions/184.181.102.188|184.181.102.188]] 14:02, 13 January 2019 (EST)

Sakurai actually mentioned that the basic performance of Lucina’s moves are the same as Marth’s, and since that is true (same angles and properties), I say they count as nearly 1:1. And we are forgetting Daisy, Dark Samus and Richter, who have virtually identical gameplay. In fact, competitive players on the Marcina discord are even saying that you should basically play Marth and Lucina in a 1:1 fashion. Point is that clones are defined by having almost equivalent gameplay. Dr Mario is far different from Mario in gameplay. 

Ken’s attributes are also much less different than Dr Mario’s.  --[[Special:Contributions/81.152.89.15|81.152.89.15]] 05:12, 17 January 2019 (EST)

Oh Hello. I suspect you are a bot for memoryman3 from the gamefaqs board. You haven’t given a source. Also, while Lucina has the same knockback angles, I would not trust the competetive players on the Marcina discord. From my personal experience, Lucina can’t space effectively at all. Despite having the same attributes, she does not have the exact same playstyke, as you are falsely claiming. Have a nice day, sockpuppet account that may be memoryman3 from gamefaqs. [[Special:Contributions/99.203.11.208|99.203.11.208]] 17:23, 17 January 2019 (EST)

Except that Lucina and Marth have the exact same range, so they can space equally well. --[[Special:Contributions/185.72.247.201|185.72.247.201]] 16:59, 20 January 2019 (EST)

== Should we protect Dr. Mario’s page like we protected Daisy’s and the clone page? ==

Somebody keeps removing the “Differences from Mario” section. While yes, Dr. Mario is not considered to be an echo fighter, he is still quite clearly a clone. Even if the madman who keeps removing this section believes it to be unnecessary, keeping it there actually proves their point that Dr. Mario has more differences from Mario than most echoes do.[[Special:Contributions/184.181.102.188|184.181.102.188]] 14:49, 12 January 2019 (EST)

I think we should. [[Special:Contributions/104.225.177.90|104.225.177.90]] 11:15, 14 January 2019 (EST)

There's no reason to, since it's mainly just the same person using sockpuppets, and we don't need to protect pages just for one person. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 19:43, 17 January 2019 (EST)

==Can We Call Dr Mario's Side Smash "Electrotherapy?"==

Just for fun. I know it hardly matters, but I just think it's fitting. [[User:Little Warrior|Little Warrior Was Here.]] ([[User talk:Little Warrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 March 2019 (EST)

== DR. MARIO (SSBU) LACKS COMPETITIVE PLAYER NAMES. ==

[[Special:Contributions/216.235.150.229|216.235.150.229]] 08:20, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
:That's because almost nobody plays Doc competitively. [[Special:Contributions/97.64.61.113|97.64.61.113]] 07:29, March 22, 2019 (EDT)

== Super Sheet has a 1.6x multiplier.  ==

I saw in a guide book that it's 1.6x and I tested this in Training Mode and it's true. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:86.163.151.153|86.163.151.153]] ([[User talk:86.163.151.153|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/86.163.151.153|contribs]]) 07:22, 19 March 2019 (EDT)</small>
:I have tested Mario's Cape and Dr. Mario's Super Sheet against the exact same kind of projectile, and the damage dealt by a projectile reflected by Mario's Cape is the same as that of a projectile reflected by Dr. Mario's Super Sheet. The information provided by the guidebook is false. [[User:Zakawer2|Zakawer2]] ([[User talk:Zakawer2|talk]]) 23:31, March 24, 2019 (EDT)

I tested against Cloud's Blade Beam. Base damage is 8% for Cloud. When reflected by Mario, the move does 9% damage. When reflected by Dr. Mario, it does 9.6% damage. Dr Mario's cape indeed does have a 1.6x multiplier now. Yes I also made sure there were 2 Clouds so the 1v1 multiplier doesn't activate. --[[User:ANewLeaf|ANewLeaf]] ([[User talk:ANewLeaf|talk]]) 08:25, April 12, 2019 (EDT)
:I actually tested the Steel Diver item. As it turns out, Dr. Mario's attack multiplier now applies to reflected non-item attacks. Super Sheet still has a 1.5× multiplier, but Dr. Mario's passive attack multiplier now causes reflected projectiles to deal slightly more damage (except for items). [[User:Zakawer2|Zakawer2]] ([[User talk:Zakawer2|talk]]) 07:08, April 23, 2019 (EDT)
I checked the params and the multiplier was increased from 1.5 to 1.6 times in patch 1.1.0. This was a patch change that was not carried over to Mario. --[[User:LancerBombardia|LancerBombardia]] ([[User talk:LancerBombardia|talk]]) 20:14, May 26, 2019 (EDT)
:Upon comparing the damage dealt by a projectile reflected by Super Sheet to that of one reflected by Joker's Makarakarn (which has a 1.6x multiplier), I can confirm that this is actually true. I still refuse to believe Memoryman3 in every other area regardless. [[User:Zakawer2|Zakawer2]] ([[User talk:Zakawer2|talk]]) 08:44, July 23, 2019 (EDT)

==Damage Multiplier==
"The damage outputs of most of Dr. Mario's attacks (with the exception of his get-up attacks) use a 1.175x multiplier. As a result, he is significantly stronger than Mario. However, this multiplier does not apply to items."

What other attacks are not affected by this multiplier? --[[Special:Contributions/152.0.117.222|152.0.117.222]] 20:09, June 18, 2019 (EDT)

:I know this is old, but all of his attacks are. '''Your Senpai,''' [[User:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: red;">'''Iron'''</span>]] [[User talk:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: cyan;">'''Warrior'''</span>]] 11:30, November 18, 2019 (EST)

== Just a little error in the Notable Players > Active part ==

Oryon is French, as shown on the page about him on the wiki, yet the flag shown besides him is the Nederlands one ^^'

== Expressiveness and other things ==

Is it me or Dr. Mario is much less expressive than Mario? I mean, Mario appears angry when he attacks, uses an air dodge or shields, grab the ledge or when he tosses an opponent, but his expressions have more variety, such as when he smiles in some animations. Dr. Mario lacks other expressions on his face outside of an angry or serious look, and thus, he doesn't seem to smile at all, which combined with the fact that he is not as vocal as Mario, this makes him feel much more serious, and his back throw seems like a wrestling throw. Also, it seems to me that his neck is longer than Mario's. [[Special:Contributions/82.55.50.131|82.55.50.131]]

== Physics issues in the hitboxes ==
I noticed that in the hitboxes of some of Dr. Mario's attacks, such as his back and down aerials, don't match the movement and physics in gameplay. I noticed that his coat and stetoscope either don't have physics or don't match the movement they do in gameplay. For example, in his back and down aerials, his coat doesn't move upwards to show more of his pants. In the former, both coat and stetoscope don't have physics at all, while in the latter, the stetoscope doesn't match the movement in gameplay and even goes through his pant legs and his body. Please correct these issues. [[Special:Contributions/82.55.50.131|82.55.50.131]]

== Down aerial's hitbox visualization issues ==

The hitbox visualization for Dr. Mario's down aerial post 7.0.0 is even worse compared to post patch in terms of model issues: apart from the stethoscope going through his pants, he has double eyebrows and his mouth is missing. Just like the section above, please correct those issues. {{unsigned|79.18.11.200|}}
:The purpose of hitbox visuals is to accurately portray the regions in which hit detection is active, as well as how long it's active for. They are not intended to be perfect representations of the aesthetic features of the game. Outside of stretching limbs, minor inconsistencies like this are not an issue, and do not justify undermining someone's hard work in making the visuals. Please do not post to complain about the hitbox visuals again unless you have an actually relevant issue to report. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 17:38, February 2, 2020 (EST)

There are no issues with stretching limbs, but outside of the stetoschope going through his pants, there are noticeable issues that are even worse than model scaling issues. I mean, unlike the previous hitbox visualization, Dr. Mario has double eyebrows and he has no mouth. {{unsigned|79.18.11.200|}}
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 == Down aerial's hitbox visualization issues ==
-The hitbox visualization for Dr. Mario's down aerial post 7.0.0 is even worse compared to post patch in terms of model issues: apart from the stethoscope going through his pants, he has double eyebrows and his mouth is missing. Just like the section above, please correct those issues. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:79.18.11.200|79.18.11.200]] ([[User talk:79.18.11.200|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/79.18.11.200|contribs]]) </small>
+The hitbox visualization for Dr. Mario's down aerial post 7.0.0 is even worse compared to post patch in terms of model issues: apart from the stethoscope going through his pants, he has double eyebrows and his mouth is missing. Just like the section above, please correct those issues. {{unsigned|79.18.11.200|}}
 :The purpose of hitbox visuals is to accurately portray the regions in which hit detection is active, as well as how long it's active for. They are not intended to be perfect representations of the aesthetic features of the game. Outside of stretching limbs, minor inconsistencies like this are not an issue, and do not justify undermining someone's hard work in making the visuals. Please do not post to complain about the hitbox visuals again unless you have an actually relevant issue to report. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 17:38, February 2, 2020 (EST)
-There are no issues with stretching limbs, but outside of the stetoschope going through his pants, there are noticeable issues that are even worse than model scaling issues. I mean, unlike the previous hitbox visualization, Dr. Mario has double eyebrows and he has no mouth. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:79.18.11.200|79.18.11.200]] ([[User talk:79.18.11.200|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/79.18.11.200|contribs]]) </small>
+There are no issues with stretching limbs, but outside of the stetoschope going through his pants, there are noticeable issues that are even worse than model scaling issues. I mean, unlike the previous hitbox visualization, Dr. Mario has double eyebrows and he has no mouth. {{unsigned|79.18.11.200|}}
-== The page needs some updates ==
-The page could use some help in updates, but since it's protected, very few of us can update it and improve it. We also need to put the beneficial changes by patch 7.0.0 in the ''Changes to SSB4'' section. I put some stuff on Mario's page, like informations on dash attack's new animation and the new animations of his throws. The same thing could be said about the pages of Peach, Daisy. Lucina and Chrom.[[User:Vittorio Fedele|Vittorio Fedele]] ([[User talk:Vittorio Fedele|talk]]) 11:09, February 11, 2020 (EST)
-== Dr. Mario Updates ==
-Ok First off Dr. Mario IS a clone Because He does Everything Mario Does But Docter. Can He do a Virus attack? Were Viruses come raining down On Him for 5 seconds (up B) Can There Be like a Dr. Luigi as one of Dr. Mario's Skins? Now on to his Final smash. It has to Be Different Because Mario's Final Smash Is The Same Just It's a fireball. Dr. Mario's Final Smash Has to Be Different!!! Ok Maybe Dr. Mario Could do like Maybe Dr. Peach, Dr. Bowser, And Dr. Mario All Have their pill's and They Throw them at the foe or Maybe All Different Viruses attack And Dr. Mario Does Like A final Punch or Pills come flying toward the Foe and the foe get's dizzy And then Dr. Mario Has Like A rainbow Pill (those are real) and Get's rid of the opponent. Now on to costumes, I don't know maybe just other Doctors. But Yeah That's all the updates for Dr. Mario I Have.
-:Your ideas are cute and all, but we are a wiki - our mission is to gather facts, [[SmashWiki is not fanon|not opinions]]. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 08:54, December 6, 2020 (EST)
-== Dr Mario’s Forward Smash  ==
-It’s based on real life defibrillator I hope someone could add it for me to the part of the article invlolving his movset since I cannot do it myself.
-== Cape false info? ==
-"In the same circumstances, the entire move loses two frames of startup, allowing the offensive hitbox to come out earlier (on frame 10) and reducing the move's total duration."
-What is the basis of this info because anywhere else I look I can't find anything supporting this [[User:LycanTheToucan|LycanTheToucan]] ([[User talk:LycanTheToucan|talk]]) 13:58, February 18, 2021 (EST)
-:Actually, there's a searchbox that appears on frame 6 to detect a projectile to allow for eariler reflection. I noticed it first on Mii Swordfighter's reflector and noticed it in Mario and Dr. Mario's scripts as well. So there's your source.[[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 16:45, February 18, 2021 (EST)
-== Sem ==
-Sem should be a noted player as one of the best docs in the United States if not the best as he was ranked 97th in North America by OrionStats, has beaten players like {{Sm|LingLing}}, ChunkyKong, and {{Sm|Jake}}, and has had several solid results at tournaments like InfinityCon and CEO 2021[[User:ClemSSB|ClemSSB]] ([[User talk:ClemSSB|talk]]) 10:22, March 11, 2022 (EST)
-== BacoN should be listed as most historically significant  ==
-I’d say that his feats are definitely historically significant to Doc as he recently guaranteed 17th at {{Trn|Pound 2022}}, Doc’s best solo supermajor result. I’m aware that we can’t add people based on one result, but BacoN also has great performances with Doc such as 33rd at {{Trn|Glitch 8.5}} and 97th at {{Trn|GENESIS 8}}. If not, he should at least go on the watchlist.[[User:ClemSSB|ClemSSB]] ([[User talk:ClemSSB|talk]]) 20:08, April 23, 2022 (EDT)
-::I feel like watchlist fair. Their majors aren't great outside this one but doc isn't consistent. That said, I'm not sure their results really separate themselves from {{Sm|Aiyu}} who has 3 decent major/national results. So for now my vote is watchlist. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 21:41, April 23, 2022 (EDT)
-Would say he deserves more. His results are consistent considering doc’s own inconsistencies.[[User:ClemSSB|ClemSSB]] ([[User talk:ClemSSB|talk]]) 11:27, April 25, 2022 (EDT)
-::Curious what makes you place them over Aiyu? Aiyu best major placements are 17th, 25th and 33rd. Granted they have never placed better than 97th at a supermajor but BacoN has only done better than that once. Aiyu also had top 100 wins last season on HIKARU and Taikei. I could see arguing for both but not really just BacoN. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 11:39, April 25, 2022 (EDT)
-:I also think Aiyu should be added but it feels like a lot to be asking for two to be added at once.[[User:ClemSSB|ClemSSB]] ([[User talk:ClemSSB|talk]]) 11:49, April 25, 2022 (EDT)
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