Editing Talk:Dr. Mario (SSB4)

Hi Im just here to say that I believe that the line that says "This makes him the first character to skip an installment of super smash bros." should be moved to a trivia section. Is that okay?--[[User:Pichu+Pichu|Pichu+Pichu]] ([[User talk:Pichu+Pichu|talk]]) 16:39, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
:Yeah, it makes more sense as a trivia point. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 16:41, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

Just to ask, can anyone confirm that this time he is actually slower than Mario rahter than the trophy just saying so (and being wrong)? [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 18:03, 13 September 2014 (EDT)

So what happened to the names of the moves? [[User:Thesupernintendokid|Thesupernintendokid]] ([[User talk:Thesupernintendokid|talk]]) 19:56, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
:The names are not official and shouldn't be used. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:21, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
::It's a rule that you shouldn't use made-up names for moves, unless [[SW:OFFICIAL|the majority of the community agrees and uses said term]] and Nintendo doesn't confirm it. With the names for Dr. Mario's moves, however, that is not the case; no one uses those names for the moves, so we shouldn't use them. <font face="AmericanTypewriter">[[User: Rtzxy|<span style="color:darkorange;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:blue;">Smashing!</span>]]</font> 20:46, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
:: You know those original names came from Nintendo right?[[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 02:24, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
==[[Up-B cancel]]==
Is it gone? [[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 18:51, 12 October 2014 (EDT)
:Second question, does anyone on this wiki actually care anymore?[[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 20:48, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::First off, most people likely did not see this talk page post due to my small edit of the title, I apologize for that. Secondly, yes many people on this wiki care and that is improper talk page usage, your question is also low-priority. Thirdly, why don't you check it on a copy yourself? If you do not have a copy, I apologize, but there is nothing I can currently due about this subject at the present time, as my copy is in a void or something. I haven't seen any videos using it, so more than likely, it is gone. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 21:00, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:::Sorry, it's just that the same thing happened on Mega Man's talk page. I had to request a few edits and I did not get an answer until I had posted two more times, and when I did get an answer people were just saying something like "why don't you join and edit it yourself", I had to make two more posts until somebody actually made an edit. Unfortunately that fellow also edited it wrong and I had to comment again for the changes to be made correctly. Sorry, my question was also kind of rhetorical, I tried to perform the move on my own copy and it didn't work. I wanted someone else to try it, see if i am right, and state that change in the article if it is true. As it is I can't edit, so I have to request edits. Unfortunately it takes offhand angry comments for anyone to respond it seems. [[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 23:44, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::::So make an account and stop complaining then. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:16, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
:::::Wow, just, wow. You read what I had to say, and decided that I am the one who has the problem here. You didn't even edit the page, you didn't even try to apologize for the puzzle, you didn't even decide to perform any sort of duty as a member, all you did was tell me that I had a problem and ran away from actually making a change. Now tell me why I would want to join a group where that is the response I get from asking you to do your job and spend 8 seconds making one little change. [[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 00:54, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
::::::The entire point of a wiki like this is that it is collaborative effort from a community primarily composed of users with accounts. If you want to contribute, making an account is the easiest way to do so. Being passive-aggressive is counterproductive. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 01:23, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
:::::::Thank you for editing it. I just don't want an account, and i don't want people to try and talk me into one. Unfortunately, being passive-aggressive is the only way I have gotten a response these past few weeks. Nobody wants to do it until they feel they are being judged for not doing it. [[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 01:44, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
::::::::All I'm saying is find a more constructive and less hostile means of contributing. It's that simple. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 02:04, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
:::::::::Sorry, it's just I've been regularly eaten alive in these talk pages, look at the Mega Man talk page, 90% of the anonymous posts are me.[[Special:Contributions/71.119.32.252|71.119.32.252]] 02:09, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
::::::::::If you are worried about making an account, don't be. It is a really fun experience to work on the wiki. You seem like you really care about the games, so having you as a member could only help us. Please consider joining. [[User:Gpev96|Gpev96 (SHAZAM!)]] ([[User talk:Gpev96|talk]]) 09:17, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

== Unlock criteria? ==

The page says part of the unlock requirements for Dr. Mario is "Clear Classic Mode as Mario on difficulty 4.0 or higher," but I haven't cleared it above 2.0 or with Mario and just unlocked Dr. Mario. I don't know where that information came from but it's evidently incorrect. [[Special:Contributions/71.170.110.181|71.170.110.181]] 21:40, 24 October 2014 (EDT)

== Good Idea ==
I have a great idea for the name of Doctor Mario's Final Smash! How about... Dr. Mario Treatment?
[[User:The Master Hand|<span style="color:#808080;">The Master Hand]]'''—'''''[[User talk:The Master Hand|<span style="color:#C0C0C0;">It's time.]]''''' [[File:MasterHandSig.jpg|25px]]
:Sorry, but we only use the [[SW:OFFICIAL|official names]] for Final Smashes, which is usually on the Final Smash's trophy. Speaking of which, does anyone happen to know what the names are for the unnamed Final Smashes? <font face="Marker Felt">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:#9f4f3f;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|20x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:#66CDAA;">''Reflect!''</span>]]</font> 11:18, 22 November 2014 (EST)

== Final Smash damage ==

Okay so here's the scoop:
*The hitbox data says 3% and 2%.
*We know that the damage meter cannot be trusted (see [[Forum:Charged Smash Damage Multiplier|here]], where it reports a value of 63.0 as "62%").
*These are my numbers from one particular test:
{|class="wikitable"
!Hitbox damage!!Damage meter!!Combo counter
|-
|3||3 (+3)||3 (1)
|-
|3||6 (+3)||3 (1)
|-
|2||8 (+2)||2 (1)
|-
|3||12 (+4)||5 (2)
|-
|3||15 (+3)||8 (3)
|-
|2||17 (+2)||11 (4)
|-
|2||20 (+3)||13 (5)
|-
|3||23 (+3)||16 (6)
|-
|2||25 (+2)||19 (7)
|-
|2||28 (+3)||21 (8)
|}
The damage can't be 3/2, because then the final damage would be 25 not 28. The damage can't be 3.333/2.333, because then the following would all be off by one: damage meter 3, 6, 9; combo counter 5, 8. The damage might be 3.3/2.3 because it fits all these numbers.

So, one of three things are happening here.
#There's a hidden value that's making Dr. Mario's Final Smash deal more damage than it's coded to.
#There's a hidden value that's making Dr. Mario's entire moveset deal more damage than it's coded to.
#Dr. Mario's moveset data is missing from all known data dumps and we're looking in the wrong place to start with.
[[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Cloronic 10:37, 2 January 2015 (EST)
:The damage value of the two large Megavitamins needs to be over 3.3% and less than 3.5%. If it was 3.3%, then the sixth hit would cause the damage to be 19.6% and the amount displayed would be 19%. The damage values for the trails behind the Megavitamins needs to be greater than 2.3%, but it's slightly different. My original value for the trails behind the large Megavitamins may have been incorrect.
:Like Dr. Mario's smash attacks and his air attacks, the damage values seem to have more than one decimal place. It's also difficult to see what the exact damage values are because of that. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 16:49, 2 January 2015 (EST)
::Are you sure you understand the hitboxes correctly? The trails do no damage, only the pills themselves do, and the bigger one does more than the smaller one. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Interspacial 22:48, 2 January 2015 (EST)
:::I didn't notice that the Megavitamins were different sizes. I was incorrect about the trails following the Megavitamins dealing damage. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 23:05, 2 January 2015 (EST)
Were one of your sources the frame data for each character that could be found in Smashboards? I think that the damage values for Dr. Mario listed in that are incorrect since most of them correspond more accurately to Mario. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 02:58, 8 January 2015 (EST)
:My main source is the raw set of "mariod" files from an extraction, which must be the correct one because 1. there are no "drmario" files, and 2. the "mariod" files are the only place where the Megavitamins can be found. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Bold 09:48, 8 January 2015 (EST)
::That's the one that I'm referring to. The values aren't correct for Dr. Mario at all. Dr. Mario's up tilt deals something closer to 7.056% damage, the Dr. Tornado deals damage between 8% and 9%, and his side smash deals more damage than what is listed, for example. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 14:45, 8 January 2015 (EST)
:::So #2 or #3 in my list above is the case, is what you're saying? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Victorious 14:51, 8 January 2015 (EST)
::::Either of those two seem to be the case. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 15:00, 8 January 2015 (EST)
It turns out that Dr. Mario had a damage multiplier of 1.12 that affected the damage values of all of his moves. That explains why the damage values for his attacks were different. [http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-hitbox-frame-data-for-every-character-now-with-ko-percents.383550/ Here] is the source of the information on page 5. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 07:32, 12 January 2015 (EST)
:Hm. That would make the Final Smash damage 3.36/2.24, which works out with the table above. I trust the source, so let's proceed with it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chronicler 09:21, 12 January 2015 (EST)

==Buffed or Nerfed?==
Hey everyone, do you think Dr. Mario was buffed from Mario or nerfed from Mario?
'''[[User:The Master Hand|<span style="color:#808080;">The Master Hand</span>]]'''—'''''[[User talk:The Master Hand|<span style="color:#B1B1B1;">It's time.</span>]]''''' [[File:MasterHandSig.jpg|25px]] 15:49, 2 January 2015 (EST)

== Slower Dash and Air Speed ==

So, if Dr. Mario is slower than his normal counterpart, how come the air and dash speed ranking on this site state that they move at the same speed in the air and ground?[[Special:Contributions/64.237.230.51|64.237.230.51]] 09:39, 3 April 2015 (EDT)
:I'm guessing Doc has a multiplier applied to his speed stats, like the one for his attack damage (which initially confused people looking at the code). I don't really know, though. Can anyone clarify this? [[User:Zyrac|Zyrac]] ([[User talk:Zyrac|talk]]) 09:48, 3 April 2015 (EDT)

== Wavedashing ==

Is there really any point in including this info? It's already pretty obvious that it hindered his approach, but considering he wasn't one of the best wavedashers and that the pages for the Brawl veterans don't mention this except for Luigi since it crippled him more than everybody else, it seems vaguely unnecessary. - [[User:Drilly Dilly|Drilly Dilly]] ([[User talk:Drilly Dilly|talk]]) 19:18, 13 August 2015 (EDT)
:To me, it's not as important as [[Mewtwo (SSB4)|these]] [[Roy (SSB4)|two]]. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 19:33, 13 August 2015 (EDT)
::What's not important? - [[User:Drilly Dilly|Drilly Dilly]] ([[User talk:Drilly Dilly|talk]]) 20:25, 13 August 2015 (EDT)

== {{SSB4|Dr. Mario}}s Hand Animations ==

So I finally realized last week that there was something a bit off about Dr. Mario's animations when looking at his hand(s). I noticed that in [[8-Player Smash]] when there's five or more players that this would occur, but when there's four or less players in-game, this is fixed. I carefully paused, viewed, and took as many snapshots of his animations as I could (and there is STILL more I haven't gotten to yet). I compared the photos I took and it seems his hand(s) would look similar to {{SSB4|Luigi}}'s hand when he uses his [[forward aerial]]. It can be seem during... well... there's a lot to name. It doesn't affect any gameplay with him I'm sure other than visually I guess. Maybe I should upload an example when possible? I also updated the trivia with this subject too.



[[User:Yin10Dou|Yin10Dou]] ([[User talk:Yin10Dou|talk]]) 19:57, 21 September 2015 (EDT)Yin10Dou
:Character models generally have fewer [[wikipedia:Skeletal animation|bones]] in 8-Player Smash as a memory-saving measure. This was demonstrated by things like Wii Fit Trainer's thumbs-up victory pose being at a different angle from the same phenomenon. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:02, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
	You aren't logged in. While it's not a requirement to create an account, doing so makes it a lot easier to keep track of your edits and a lot harder to confuse you with someone else. If you edit without being logged in, your IP address will be recorded in the page's edit history.
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@@ Line 93: / Line 93: @@
 ::What's not important? - [[User:Drilly Dilly|Drilly Dilly]] ([[User talk:Drilly Dilly|talk]]) 20:25, 13 August 2015 (EDT)
-== {{SSB4|Dr. Mario}}'s Hand Animations ==
+== {{SSB4|Dr. Mario}}s Hand Animations ==
-So I finally realized last week that there was something a bit off about Dr. Mario's animations when looking at his hand(s). I noticed that in [[8-Player Smash]] when there's five or more players that this would occur, but when there's four or less players in-game, this is fixed. I carefully paused, viewed, and took as many snapshots of his animations as I could (and there is STILL more I haven't gotten to yet). I compared the photos I took and it seems his hand(s) would look similar to {{SSB4|Luigi}}'s hand when he uses his [[forward aerial]]. It can be seen during... well... there's a lot to name. It doesn't affect any gameplay with him I'm sure other than visually I guess. Maybe I should upload an example when possible? I also updated the trivia with this subject too.
+So I finally realized last week that there was something a bit off about Dr. Mario's animations when looking at his hand(s). I noticed that in [[8-Player Smash]] when there's five or more players that this would occur, but when there's four or less players in-game, this is fixed. I carefully paused, viewed, and took as many snapshots of his animations as I could (and there is STILL more I haven't gotten to yet). I compared the photos I took and it seems his hand(s) would look similar to {{SSB4|Luigi}}'s hand when he uses his [[forward aerial]]. It can be seem during... well... there's a lot to name. It doesn't affect any gameplay with him I'm sure other than visually I guess. Maybe I should upload an example when possible? I also updated the trivia with this subject too.
@@ Line 101: / Line 101: @@
 [[User:Yin10Dou|Yin10Dou]] ([[User talk:Yin10Dou|talk]]) 19:57, 21 September 2015 (EDT)Yin10Dou
 :Character models generally have fewer [[wikipedia:Skeletal animation|bones]] in 8-Player Smash as a memory-saving measure. This was demonstrated by things like Wii Fit Trainer's thumbs-up victory pose being at a different angle from the same phenomenon. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:02, 21 September 2015 (EDT)
-== The page's rewrite ==
-Thanks a lot everyone who helped. The page looked so mediocre and unencyclopedic, and while it now has a lot more bits than the last time, it now covers everything it had to cover :] --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]], '''a user with no grammar at all :v''' [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 17:52, 5 May 2016 (EDT)
-:No problem. :) '''[[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Crimson">Drill Blaster Mark</font> <font color="Silver">2</font>]]''' ''[[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Black">(talk)</font>]]'' 18:32, 5 May 2016 (EDT)
-People know me for not liking how IPs sometimes take the liberty of editing characters' attributes, and that I prefer by much the use of the word "scaling" over "growth" since it is the official term and sounds more encyclopaedic. Mmkay, so I saw the IPs edit, and while I was mad I had to undo it, I'll give a shot again to the page and make a small rewrite that makes it more understandable. So plz don't revert my edit. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]], '''a user with no grammar at all :v''' [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 13:15, 9 May 2016 (EDT)
-== Damage comparison to melee ==
-Okay two quick things,
-. Dr.Mario's up B only did 13% in melee, Mario's was the one that did 14 so I don't know why that keeps being added in there.
-. Dr.Mario's down air did 19% damage in melee if all hits connected, I don't know if it's a region difference or if this is just an inaccurate site.
-:Remember to sign please. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">'''King'''</span></span>]] 01:49, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
-== Speed multiplier findings ==
-*I did some speed tests with Dr. Mario, and it seems that speed multiplier is NOT 0.82 for his run speed and air speed. The run speed multiplier may actually be between 0.825 and 0.838, while the air speed multiplier is between 0.795 and 0.819. This may have to be looked at further though, considering that the game handles Dr. Mario's speed attributes differently from the other fighters. [[Special:Contributions/67.242.7.137|67.242.7.137]] 21:59, 29 May 2016 (EDT)
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