Editing Talk:Donkey Kong (SSBM)

{{Note|The following was moved from DK grab glitch's talk page in a merge with this page.}}
==verification==
How must this be (officially) verified? [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 00:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
:Video is the preferred method.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 00:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
-and what would one do with the video? [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 05:28, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

:Give me the link, and I will post it. ([[User:Wolf O'Donnell|Wolf O'Donnell]] <small>([[User talk:Wolf O'Donnell|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Wolf O'Donnell|contributions]])</small> 05:30, 20 July 2008 (UTC))

I have no such link. I am merely curious as to the method by which one would go about obtaining verification. As well, I am curious why this article, in particular, requires verification, and what would change should it be "granted". [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 16:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

My guess is that there '''is'''' nothing truly required for "verification". [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 20:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

:Well, I guess the discovery information wasn't redundant. It appeared as such at the time. ([[User:Wolf O'Donnell|Wolf O'Donnell]] <small>([[User talk:Wolf O'Donnell|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Wolf O'Donnell|contributions]])</small> 01:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC))
:How about we move this to the DK melee page! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 18:20, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

== Serpent King.... ==

I do. It's a glitch and it exists, let it live. [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 10:07, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
:The problem with this page is that it doesn't have a lot to cover, thus the merge proposal. we should document this glitch, but it's not expansive enough to have an entire, 3,000 character page. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 10:11, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
::Yeah, I don't really think this deserves to have its own page either. In my opinion it could go under a Trivia section or to the "List of flaws in artificial intelligence (SSBM)" page. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[Image:{{NameToIcon|Ness}}Head{{#if:|{{{cl}}}}}{{#if:SSBB|{{#ifeq:SSBB|SSB4|SSB4-U|SSBB}}}}.png{{#if:16px|{{!}}16px}}|link={{#if:|{{{l}}}|Ness{{#if:SSBB|&#32;({{#switch:SSBB|SSB4-U|SSB4-3=SSB4|#default=SSBB}})}}}}]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 10:18, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
:::I'll merge it later unless opposes come up. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 10:43, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
:::Yea. Also, apologies for not doing anything productive compared to when I was an IP guys, it's just been hard to find things to do. [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 10:51, 18 August 2015 (EDT)

== Glitch or AI flaw? ==

I don't get why this is considered a glitch. If it only happens to CPUs, then it's simply an AI flaw explained by the CPU not recognising that it can escape DK's cargo throw when re-grabbed too quickly after being thrown, ceasing inputs for some reason. That said, this shouldn't be its own page but maybe listed as trivia on the [[Donkey Kong (SSBM)]] page: as for the AI flaws page, I find this too specific to be listed as one there. [[File:Badass Nidoking.png|20px]] [[User:DracoRexKing|<font color="blue">'''Draco'''</font><font color="red">'''Rex'''</font>]][[User talk:DracoRexKing|<font color="purple">'''King'''</font>]] 21:12, 27 August 2015 (EDT)
:I believe the consensus is that the articles should be merged; I just did so. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 21:21, 27 August 2015 (EDT)

==Akir and da==
In response to the recent edit adding these two without discussion, I've opted to begin the discussion myself.

As far as Akir goes, while he [https://www.start.gg/user/5b006560/results has placed well] in many online tournaments and certain regionals, I am pretty sure most of his deep bracket runs are [https://www.pgstats.com/melee/player/Akir?id=S144798&topPlayers=100 due to playing top tiers] and not DK. Feel free to fact check me if this isn't the case, but that's what I've been led to believe according to PGStats.

As for da, despite not having any notable results afaik, I do believe he is a notable enough labber to be listed in the section. He is responsible for the [https://melee.cookbook.gg/Donkey%20Kong DK Cookbook] and is essentially to DK what Savestate and Rienne are to Link and Zelda respectively. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 20:04, November 18, 2022 (EST)

== Junebug and ckyulmiqnudaetr/quang ==

I made [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Donkey_Kong_(SSBM)&diff=1792791&oldid=1792789 this edit], which was reverted due to a discussion being needed. So, I propose that Junebug and ckyulmiqnudaetr/quang be added to the notable players section; they have placed very well at recent majors and both have very good wins and are ranked highly in their respective regions. Any disagreements? [[Special:Contributions/74.67.164.210|74.67.164.210]] 19:29, April 25, 2023 (EDT)
:I think ckyulmiqnudaetr is fine. They were an HM on the MPGR 2019 and has some very solid wins and major placements. Junebug, on the other hand, has been a Sheik main for most of his career, and it seems like at his recent majors he's been playing whatever he wants, eg Dr. Mario at Double Down 2022. His only usage of DK at a major was 17th at Collision 2023, which while good is 1) currently his only usage of DK at a major, and 2) a pretty recent tournament as of this post, so I'd wait and see how much more DK Junebug would use at majors before adding him to the section. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 19:48, April 25, 2023 (EDT)
::I'll point out that ckyu, then known as Quang, was a Fox and Ice Climbers main when he made HM on the 2019 MPGR, so it's completely irrelevant to his significance as a DK player. Looking into it deeper, it doesn't appear he used DK at any major tournaments before TBH10. That also brings into question how much of the wins cited were actually with DK; I can see he won against Bobby and Kalvar at Genesis 9 using DK, but the other wins that were claimed in the IP's reverted entry are not accounted for at Genesis 9 nor TBH10. Given that, I'll veto adding him for now as it's too soon to add off of just two results, unless evidence of significant DK usage is shown before this. I'll also agree with not adding Junebug over just a single result, while also just like ckyu, none of the cited wins in the reverted entry actually occurred with Junebug's lone cited result at Collision. IP, you can't be listing wins the player got with other characters or at locals in these sections. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:49, April 26, 2023 (EDT)
:::Yeah I didn't look into ckyu's majors before they really started to play DK and assumed they were always a DK main. I'm taking back my support for now. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 15:14, April 26, 2023 (EDT)

== Junebug ==

Reopening discussion on Junebug since I think he pretty clearly belongs now. First DK main ever on SSBMRank and from what I can find the largest tournament ever won with solo DK https://www.start.gg/tournament/xanadu-legends-xanadu-500-edition/details . Has beaten Polish, Dawson, Khryke, mvlvchi, Kalvar, JJM, and Kevin Maples with DK. Even if he dropped DK tomorrow he's already relevant to the competitive history of the character. [[User:Jaydyn|Jaydyn]] ([[User talk:Jaydyn|talk]]) 20:32, August 7, 2023 (EDT)
:Repeating from what I said on the Discord server when this was brought up earlier today; this matter hasn't really changed from last time this was brought up when Collision is still the only major he entered with DK (not even a supermajor), and he has only entered one more regional since, while the two regionals he has entered were pretty good sized but not that exceptional. That is too few results to justify putting him on so soon, and putting him in now would be falling for recency bias that plagued these sections before they were overhauled (I would question how he was even eligible to be ranked with so few tournaments, let alone be ranked top 50, but that's not a discussion for here). The half year rankings additionally are a lot less prestigious than the full year rankings and should not be considered in the same vein as them. I have little doubt Junebug will merit it eventually, but he is not at the point I'm convinced his placing in the section would have staying power if he does to DK what he did to Doc last year and drops him before entering anything more substantial.

:If we were to add someone new, ckyulmiqnudaetr (or we'll just call him Quang because that tag is annoying to type) would be the better candidate at this moment even if he technically wasn't ranked on the half year SSBMRank, when he has added two more supermajors to his resume since the last time it was brought up, including a 33rd out of 764 players at {{trn|Get On My Level 2023}}, tying Phis-It's record for best supermajor placement for a solo Donkey Kong player in Melee's history. Even with Quang I would probably wait a bit to see how this DK resurgence develops more, but I wouldn't oppose people wanting to add him now. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:00, August 7, 2023 (EDT)
::Junebug has attended more than 2 regionals, but most of his results haven't been put on the wiki yet. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:10, August 9, 2023 (EDT)
:::Thanks for the correction. Seeing how they're all MDVA regionals over a short period though, so he does still only have the one major and not even any superregionals to supplement, my stance is unchanged. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:26, August 9, 2023 (EDT)
 
::I get the worry about recency bias, but I think there's at times a tendency to go in the other direction and penalize people who have had more total achievement than others due to it happening in a shorter time frame. I also think that while the mid year rankings are clearly not as prestigious as the full year ranking, they are still noteworthy enough that being the first of your character on them is enough to be historically significant long term. That being said it's probably worth pausing this discussion until after Smash Con as that will address some of what's been discussed here (Especially since he'd become the highest placing DK at a supermajor if he places to his seed). [[User:Jaydyn|Jaydyn]] ([[User talk:Jaydyn|talk]]) 19:04, August 9, 2023 (EDT)
:::Six months is a very brief timeframe, especially for a game with over 20 years of history, and it's hard to say Junebug has "more total achievement" than other historical DKs when he has used DK at only a single major and a handful of MDVA regionals thus far, his case right now is largely resting on a half-year ranking that will be supplanted once the full end of year rankings come out. But yes, we can potentially revisit this depending on how Smash Con turns out (and I see Quang is entering it too, so a stronger performance there will certainly push him ahead of Junebug for getting listed, the Summer SSBMRank be damned). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:43, August 10, 2023 (EDT)

== Dair Name Conflict ==

The down aerial's name was originally added in Sep. 12 by [[User:Diddy Kongstar|Diddy Kongstar]], who added all the move names "from the strategy guide." I checked the [https://archive.org/details/SuperSmashBros.MeleeOfficialPlayersGuide/page/n15/mode/2up Nintendo Power Official Player's Guide], and the dair name (Flying Stomp) didn't match the name added by Kongstar (Flying Stampede). It's possible the user got it from the Prima Strategy Guide (my best guess), which would mean it's incorrect and needs to be changed. What say ye? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mariogeek2|contribs]]) 20:07, November 3, 2024 (EST)</small>
:It looks like Kongstar may have just copy-pasted and forgot to update it as everything else matches the Nintendo Power guide. I'll go ahead and correct it. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 21:21, November 3, 2024 (EST)
::Great! Appreciate your consistent help/feedback. [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2|talk]]) 21:45, November 3, 2024 (EST)
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