Editing Talk:Classic Mode (SSBU)

thanks for editing the brawl and melee hyperlinks for me bud <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Raider2747|Raider2747]] ([[User talk:Raider2747|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Raider2747|contribs]])  21:34, October 7, 2018</small>
:Not a problem. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 21:42, 7 October 2018 (EDT)

== "Allusions" table ==

The table as it is now doesn't really make sense for the future, where we will at minimum want summaries of the opponents and boss faced for each character, rather than just an explanation of what the title of their route refers to. So what are the plans for expansions here? If we're going to have a full list of every battle for every character, then we can wait until the game is out and break everything up into sections. But if that's not the case (i.e. those details will go on a separate page), then we should just change the table now from "allusions" of the character's title to "contents" of the character's route. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 10:08, 19 November 2018 (EST)

== Their own pages ==
I think that when the game is released, each character’s classic mode should be explained on that fighter’s page, like their move sets. That way we won’t have this big page with a complicated list of which fighters, stages, and music play. Agree or disagree? [[User:Ma321|Ma321]] ([[User talk:Ma321|talk]]) 00:59, 27 November 2018 (EST)
:I think it makes more sense to give each path its own article.  That would be consistent with how event matches are handled. [[User:Euler|Euler]] ([[User talk:Euler|talk]]) 19:15, 8 December 2018 (EST)

== Giant Palutena ==

Giant Palutena should get her own page; she's no different from [[Giant Donkey Kong]], [[Metal Mario]], [[Giant Kirby]], etc. I'm inclined to say Dr. Mario & Mewtwo should get a page, too, since we have [[Mario Bros. (team)]], but I have no idea what to name it. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 20:45, 8 December 2018 (EST)

== Co-op routes and Credits music ==

I think we should document the routes for co-op on the fighter pages' Classic Mode route sections. The main difference they have is that extra opponents are added, and these opponents are using a costume that is set case-by-case for each one (i.e. not automatically determined), thus there can be subtle references by costume choice. Another thing is that in co-op, for certain matches in which the player has a teammate in solo, this is not the case, due to the presence of player 2.

Secondly, as documented on the [[Credits]] page, each fighter uses a specific music track for the credits. These should additionally be documented on the route sections, because they are meant to be the place where the routes are covered in full detail. [[User:Dr. HyperCake|Dr. HyperCake]] ([[User talk:Dr. HyperCake|talk]]) 17:55, 1 January 2019 (EST)

== Mii Characters Classic == 

The mii characters should have a blurb on their page and/or in classic mode on their exclusion from classic mode.

[[User:Sandwhichcraig|Sandwhichcraig]] ([[User talk:Sandwhichcraig|talk]]) 08:08, 4 January 2019 (EST)

== Sonic’s stock icon in Pikachu’s collumn ==

I put it there so that the table would not have an empty space. Do I have permission to put it back? [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 00:48, 20 February 2019 (EST)

:Factual accuracy, I think, would be of greater importance in this matter, and the behavior of character unlocks past what is illustrated in the table is already explained in the text above it.  What's important here is that Sonic is a member of Mario's column, not Pikachu's.  Putting Sonic at the bottom of Pikachu's column introduces a logical inconsistency with the very premise of the section: "Completing Classic Mode with a character unlocks the next available character in their column."

:If you unlock Pichu or Isabelle before anyone else in Pikachu's column and complete Classic Mode with them, you get prompted to fight Villager, because Villager is the next locked character down from Pikachu on the table.  This is always true as long as Villager is locked.

:Sonic does not follow the same rules as Pichu and Isabelle.  if you complete Classic Mode with Sonic, you'll almost never be prompted fight to unlock Villager unless you have every character from Bayonetta to Mewtwo already unlocked *and* you haven't played enough Vs. Mode to unlock six characters *and* you passed Villager over at the beginning of World of Light.  Thus, having Sonic at the bottom of Pikachu's column would misrepresent Sonic's behavior in the process of unlocking fighters through Classic Mode, even if he is who would follow if everyone else in Pikachu's column was already unlocked.  Sonic is a member of Mario's column, and Mario's column only.  This distinction should be unambiguous, and his exclusion from the last cell on the table makes it so, even if it stops the table from being completely filled.

:That's my case, at least.  Hopefully this helps you understand why I've decided to undo your edit. [[User:DevNode|DevNode]] ([[User talk:DevNode|talk]]) 02:52, 20 February 2019 (EST)
::[https://media.comicbook.com/2018/12/super-smash-bros-ultimate-unlock-guide-1149184.jpeg Ahem]. Completing classic mode with Pichu unlocks sonic if he’s locked, then bayonetta, and so on. I don’t know what you’re talking about. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 00:33, 3 March 2019 (EST)
:::True, but Smashwiki's table must only list characters that are officially part of the column. Also supposed Mario's column is completed and Pikachu's was completed next, it would move to Bowser (the first character in Donkey Kong's column) since it can't get to Sonic since he's already unlocked. What we also try to do is reduce as much redundancy as possible. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164{{#if:|_({{{3}}})}}|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is made in America  01:26, 3 March 2019 (EST)
::::Firstly, it’s a better visual representation that Pikachu’s column loops back to Amrio’s. The explanation is vague and confusing. Secondly, part of this was to make the table a square. The enpty space is just unsettling. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 01:39, 3 March 2019 (EST)
:::::The conceit behind the arrangement of the characters in columns is to indicate that characters ''within the column'' can be used to unlock characters that are ''also within their column''.  This was also the basis of my original argument, which I'd note you have failed to sufficiently argue against in your responses.  You do make a fair point that the description of the section could be better-written than it currently is.  I'll look into redoing the section content for clarity.

:::::However, "making the table a square" is nowhere near as important to the article as making sure the information we present is as unambiguous as we can manage.  I'd propose as a compromise we place some manner of "loop-back arrow" image in its place, but that has similar problems.  In the absence of additional information, it can be inferred one of two things: that this is a property unique to Pikachu's column (it isn't), or that every column follows the "column completion loop" (e.g., Donkey Kong -> Link) instead of starting back at the beginning after everyone in their column is unlocked (they don't).  The next solution that would follow is putting an extra row such that the table is presented in the same way as the excerpt from the Player's Guide that you linked to, but 1, this falls into the same issue of redundancy ZeldaStarfoxfan mentioned, and 2, this was already attempted on a previous iteration of this article, and in my personal opinion, it looks far worse than just having an empty space in the corner. [[User:DevNode|DevNode]] ([[User talk:DevNode|talk]]) 04:07, 3 March 2019 (EST)

My opinion is that a character shouldn't appear in the table twice if it can be avoided. I've tried a new idea on the page: fill in the cell with an empty image that displays "Pikachu's column is shorter than other characters'." when the cursor is rolled over. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Frivolous 08:58, 3 March 2019 (EST)

== Routes ==

Currently, this page has an explanation of the route names, but the details of each character's route is confined to that character's page. This results in this page missing almost the entirety of what Classic Mode actually is. I think the Classic Mode routes should be documented on this page, and I don't think they even need to be documented on the characters' pages (but I also have no problem with keeping them there). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 01:16, April 14, 2019 (EDT)
:What about a new page "Classic Mode Route (SSBU)" with a separate section for each fighter that would then be linked from the existing array the same way specific musics are linked within the series musics page? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 18:40, February 16, 2020 (EST)

== Boss Allies ==

Since every Classic Mode route that deviates from a standard boss (having a normal character fought before, or even no boss at all) is listed, should the characters that have allies alongside them during their boss fights be listed among them?  [[User:PikaPhantom|PikaPhantom]] ([[User talk:PikaPhantom|talk]]) 11:15, February 2, 2020 (EST)

== Congratulations Screen references in the Inspiration Table ==

Since some congratulations screens reference something from the character's games (as is the case of Ness, Roy, and Sephiroth), should it be included what they reference in the Inspiration table? [[User:Diddy Kongstar|Diddy Kongstar]] ([[User talk:Diddy Kongstar|talk]]) 15:12, January 7, 2021 (EST)
:[[Congratulations screen|We already have a whole page breaking down such references]]. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:27, January 7, 2021 (EST)
:Oh, nevermind then. [[User:Diddy Kongstar|Diddy Kongstar]] ([[User talk:Diddy Kongstar|talk]]) 16:55, January 7, 2021 (EST)
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 :[[Congratulations screen|We already have a whole page breaking down such references]]. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:27, January 7, 2021 (EST)
 :Oh, nevermind then. [[User:Diddy Kongstar|Diddy Kongstar]] ([[User talk:Diddy Kongstar|talk]]) 16:55, January 7, 2021 (EST)
-== Skin used by the player ==
-Dropping this here because it applies to multiple character's pages... In a lot of our Classic Mode route descriptions on pages such as [[Meta Knight (SSBU)]] we note (for example) 'the player will fight Grey Meta Knight here, but if the player is using the Grey Meta Knight skin, then the default Meta Knight skin will be used instead'. However, as can be seen in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4XAwAxXgfc this video], with co-op it's also possible for both of these skins to be used by the player. In this case, the CPU Meta Knight ended up using the WHITE skin. Might need coverage? [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 02:25, April 25, 2022 (EDT)
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