Editing Talk:Character matchup (SSBM)

== Alignment ==

Good call on the re-align, MaskedMarth. My resolution doesn't seem to suffer the problem you were describing, but it really just looks better on the right anyway. *thumbs up*  -- [[User:Randall00|Randall00]] 22:49, February 13, 2007 (GMT)

: Haha, thanks, and good job on the whole article! {{User:MaskedMarth/sig}} 02:31, February 14, 2007 (GMT)


== Merge with Matchup ==
This belongs on the [[Matchup]] article. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 03:03, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

== So... ==

Is this going to be redesigned to match the [[Character matchups (SSB)|other]] [[Character matchups (SSBB)|two]]? [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:06, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
:That's the plan currently. But before that, I'd like to ask if anyone can provide a newer version - from what the article says, it's badly outdated. I'll fix it up soon in either case, but of course it'd be better if I didn't do it and have to redo it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 22:50, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

== favour/favor ==

I always assumed that this wiki was primarily American and I've seen "color" as opposed to "colour" often enough so what's with favour? Food for thought.[[User:Highwaypumpy|<span style="color:Orange;">highway</span>]] Image:highwaypumpypic.jpg|20px [[User talk:Highwaypumpy|<span style="color:Red;">pumpy</span>]] 02:09, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
:Well, I made the stuff, and I'm Canadian, so there's your reason as to why it's as such. We don't have any "American speeling" rule, so I just type it how it is. Of course, someone can change it, but it'll get changed back for consistency if he doesn't change very single one. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 02:51, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
::I could change it if necessary, but I'll just leave it as is right now as it's not really doing anything.[[User:Highwaypumpy|<span style="color:Orange;">highway</span>]] Image:highwaypumpypic.jpg|20px [[User talk:Highwaypumpy|<span style="color:Red;">pumpy</span>]] 13:24, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

==Mewtwo's  matchup on bowser==
Perhaps this is not the right place, but there is no way Mewtwo's matchup with Bowser is 50:50. Mewtwo has a chaingrab on Bowser, and he can chain him up to %100. From there, a simple back throw will KO Bowser. I'd say Mewtwo has at least a 60:40 matchup against Bowser. Please move this to the right place if this doesn't belong here. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:58, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
:This is the stuff you talk about in forums, but I'll respond to your comment anyways. I believe you are underestimating Bowser. First off, Mewtwo can not chain throw Bowser any where close to 100%, the down throw is too strong to be able to chain throw for that long. Secondly, the up throw would be a much more effective finisher on Bowser as he is not a fast faller. Now Bowser has some good attacks in his arsenal. Bowser's fair, usually considered his best attack in ''Melee'', is much better than any of Mewtwo's aerials, and Mewtwo does not have a proper way to deal with it. Bowser also has the Whirling Fortress, his other great attack. It has only 5 frames of start up, along with very high base knockback. It does have low knockback scaling, but considering Mewtwo is so light and floaty, Mewtwo is going to be KOd by it once he has reached the 100% mark. While there is much more that goes into a matchup than this, you provided a simple reason as will I. The point is that Bowser's fair and Whirling Fortress are going to make a bigger impact on this matchup than Mewtwo's throws. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 13:51, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
::Um, Mewtwo '''can''' chain bowser to %100. I tried this on a level 9 CPU and it did not break free until 106%. Rather than doing the last D throw, anyone could simply use the Back or Up throw to finish Bowser, making it a Zero Death Combo. Mewtwo can also do this chain throw to other fast fallers, and this is why I think his tier position should be higher. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 16:30, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
:::The fact that you did it on a cpu '''doesn't''' make it a 0-death chain throw. Actually do it against a competent human player. I've played ''Melee'' for years and I know for a fact that Mewtwo cannot chain throw anyone beyond 100%. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 16:33, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 

== Outdated ==
The chart is outdated. There is a new one on the works, here is the link http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294133 [[User:Zeldasmash|Zeldasmash]] ([[User talk:Zeldasmash|talk]]) 10:44, 23 December 2010 (EST)
:A new one that is incomplete accomplishes nothing. In addition, with 6 tables on there, a consensus on whether or not to include them must exist. Hope that they make a single one.<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px|:p]] 11:05, 23 December 2010 (EST)

I will keep an eye on that topic. Once it gets going I will see about updating ours. I would appreciate not being pestered about it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] 12:54, 23 December 2010 (EST)

== Vertical column ==
taking a look at it today and if i knew how to would have rearranged the vertical column to mirror the horizontal one.  Although it does not bother me i feel for consistency that they should be mirror and not mis-matched[[User:FE pro|FE pro]] ([[User talk:FE pro|talk]]) 15:32, 3 February 2011 (EST)

== Alignment  ==

Um... this chart looks  mis-aligned at the bottom, since the mirrors make a perfect diagonal when the horizontal and vertical columns are different resulting in Kirby having a "mirror" matchup with Pichu, Ness with Kirby, G&W with Yoshi, etc. I personally don't know how the matchups should look, so I can't really fix it. Can someone else fix it? <font style="background: #fffffff" face="none" color="teal">[[File:Warp_Star1.jpg|20px]][[User:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#000080;">'''T.c.w'''</span>]][[User talk:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#800000;">'''74'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#008000;">'''68'''</span>]]</font> 12:46, 26 February 2011 (EST)
:I figured out what went wrong. I adjusted it so that the matches are accurate (the mirror matches line up), but as of now it still isn't aligned yet. I think when the tiers changed, someone adjusted either the row or the column but didn't adjust the other, but the alignment still needs to be fixed.<font style="background: #fffffff" face="none" color="teal">[[File:Warp_Star1.jpg|20px]][[User:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#000080;">'''T.c.w'''</span>]][[User talk:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#800000;">'''74'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#008000;">'''68'''</span>]]</font> 16:37, 27 February 2011 (EST)
::Okay, I figured out what needs to be done-- the columns need to be rearranged (not the rows) and the rows need to be recolored.<font style="background: #fffffff" face="none" color="teal">[[File:Warp_Star1.jpg|20px]][[User:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#000080;">'''T.c.w'''</span>]][[User talk:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#800000;">'''74'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#008000;">'''68'''</span>]]</font> 16:46, 27 February 2011 (EST)
:::I was supposed to be the one to fix it (since im the one who switched the heads in the corresponding order) but i had other things to do, leaving it in the hands of other users. But unfortunately, no one had interests in fixing it. I must apologize for this. [[User:Zeldasmash|Zeldasmash]] ([[User talk:Zeldasmash|talk]]) 16:52, 27 February 2011 (EST)
::::I fixed the chart and re-aligned the columns for the [[Template:SSBMMatchupTable|template]]; I hope I didn't make any mistakes...<font style="background: #fffffff" face="none" color="teal">[[File:Warp_Star1.jpg|20px]][[User:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#000080;">'''T.c.w'''</span>]][[User talk:T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#800000;">'''74'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/T.c.w7468|<span style="font-family:Sylfaen; color:#008000;">'''68'''</span>]]</font> 13:35, 6 March 2011 (EST)

== The Chart ==

I am starting to think we should change it to Brawl's Matchup Chart system. The current chart has numbers like +2 and +3 on its first form. We could use it like that one. [[User:Zeldasmash|Zeldasmash]] ([[User talk:Zeldasmash|talk]]) 12:57, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
:What does the current active SSBM matchup chart say? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bomb 15:15, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
::The same. [[User:Zeldasmash|Zeldasmash]] ([[User talk:Zeldasmash|talk]]) 15:35, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
:::Same as what? Where's the topic of the current active chart? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Inconceivable 16:08, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

== "Uneven" matchup ==

There's a mistake on this page: the Bowser->Pichu matchup is said to be even, but the Pichu->Bowser matchup is said to be a small disadvantage. Which one is correct? [[User:RickTommy|RickTommy]] ([[User talk:RickTommy|talk]]) 06:13, 17 January 2012 (EST)
:It's even. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 06:33, 17 January 2012 (EST)

== Bottom row...? ==

What's the very  bottom row for...? There aren't any characters lined up there... <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  16:30, 18 June 2015 (EDT)
:It's the average, same as the last column. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:58, 18 June 2015 (EDT)

== Editing the matchups?==
The current matchup spread seems to be inaccurate for a lot of characters(especially Yoshi), and certain characters have more even/positive/negative matchups than before. Is there a way to edit the individual matchups, or does an entirely new chart have to be put in there? I just want to know how the old chart would compare to the new one, and finally see the mostly accurate matchup spread for each ind. character. Hopefully the chart can be updated soon enough. [[User:ShEiKsTeR!?|<font color="skyblue"><span style="font-family:Crafty Girls;">ShEiKsTeR!?]] <font color="turquoise">([[User talk:ShEiKsTeR!?|<font color="turquoise">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 08:50, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
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@@ Line 63: / Line 63: @@
 == Editing the matchups?==
 The current matchup spread seems to be inaccurate for a lot of characters(especially Yoshi), and certain characters have more even/positive/negative matchups than before. Is there a way to edit the individual matchups, or does an entirely new chart have to be put in there? I just want to know how the old chart would compare to the new one, and finally see the mostly accurate matchup spread for each ind. character. Hopefully the chart can be updated soon enough. [[User:ShEiKsTeR!?|<font color="skyblue"><span style="font-family:Crafty Girls;">ShEiKsTeR!?]] <font color="turquoise">([[User talk:ShEiKsTeR!?|<font color="turquoise">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 08:50, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
-:For stuff like matchup charts and tier lists, we keep to the most official releases from SmashBoards (and so far there hasn't been any other reputable group that's eclipsed them to our knowledge). So we can't really change anything until we see they've got a new official release, and I don't think many people care about matchup charts nowadays. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Aurum 09:04, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
-== Matchup Chart Messed Up ==
-It seems like the order of the characters has changed based on the most current tier list and now the matchup icons are not in the right place. It can most obviously be seen in the mirror match icons not going straight down the diagonal. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Mare Branza|Mare Branza]] ([[User talk:Mare Branza|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mare Branza|contribs]]) 11:39, September 1, 2021 (EDT)</small>
-:Should be fixed now. Thanks for catching that. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 11:54, September 1, 2021 (EDT)
-== Why is this listed as Delete? ==
-What is the specific reason why these pages couldn’t just listed as archived? [[File:ThegameandwatchIcon2.png|20px]] [[User:Thegameandwatch|<span style=" color: Green;">'''Thegameandwatch'''</span>]] [[File:Thegameandwatch signature icon.png|20px]] [[User talk:Thegameandwatch|''<span style="color: blue;">The Nerd </span>'']] 10:29, December 17, 2024 (EST)
-:We were in the process of removing matchup charts on the wiki which was why this was also put up for deletion. That being said, I do remember discussion to keep these pages as an archive and not use it on the wiki (which I honestly support more than delete), though since not much has been done about it, nothing has really changed for this page. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 10:53, December 17, 2024 (EST)
-== Why is yoshi's matchup spread still horrible ==
-I mean... yoshi is a way better character than ever before, whit some pepole even saying he's a top tier, so why is his matchup spread still one of the worst in the game?!?!??!?!
-He only has 1 +1 matchup and that's against kirby, heck, even pichu and bowser have ±0 matchups against him, and nearly every other character is a losing matchup for yoshi, i think it's time to update the chart, there are a lot of errors across the entire matchup chart but yoshi is something else [[Special:Contributions/81.56.249.98|81.56.249.98]] 12:07, January 11, 2025 (EST)
-:The chart was created back in 2010 on SmashBoards. The wiki doesn't maintain the charts and avoids referencing matchups outside of these articles as it can be subjective and hard to quantify, making it a poor metric to use. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 12:17, January 11, 2025 (EST)
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