Editing Talk:Character matchup (SSBB)
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| ||A||B||C | | ||A||B||C | ||
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|A|| ||MatchupEasy||MatchupSemiEasy | |A|| ||{{MatchupEasy}}||{{MatchupSemiEasy}} | ||
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|B||MatchupHard|| ||MatchupNeutral | |B||{{MatchupHard}}|| ||{{MatchupNeutral}} | ||
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|C||MatchupSemiHard||MatchupNeutral|| | |C||{{MatchupSemiHard}}||{{MatchupNeutral}}|| | ||
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:Tables are a bit faster (and at times easier) to update, since anyone can do it (not just the person who made the image). We'll have to add the small-character-head images, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. What do you think? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 20:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC) | :Tables are a bit faster (and at times easier) to update, since anyone can do it (not just the person who made the image). We'll have to add the small-character-head images, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. What do you think? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 20:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
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It looks good, but is there anyway to put the character's heads in? It would be much easier to identify the characters on the sides, as some people may not get which character it is based on two letters. -''[[User:Masq|<span style="color:green">Masq</span>]]'' <small>('''[[User talk:Masq|t]]'''/''[[Special:Contributions/Masq|c]]''/'''[[Special:Editcount/Masq|e]]''')</small> 15:54, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | It looks good, but is there anyway to put the character's heads in? It would be much easier to identify the characters on the sides, as some people may not get which character it is based on two letters. -''[[User:Masq|<span style="color:green">Masq</span>]]'' <small>('''[[User talk:Masq|t]]'''/''[[Special:Contributions/Masq|c]]''/'''[[Special:Editcount/Masq|e]]''')</small> 15:54, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
I don't have access to the character head symbols (unless they're hidden in this wiki somewhere), but I can add in the icons. They'd have to be pretty small, though: [[ | I don't have access to the character head symbols (unless they're hidden in this wiki somewhere), but I can add in the icons. They'd have to be pretty small, though: [[Image:Icon-metaknight.gif|20px]][[Image:Icon-snake.gif|20px]][[Image:Icon-falco.gif|20px]] Is that good enough? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 18:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
:They're not here already, but those icons are hard to see when they're so small. Check around Smashboards, though; I'm pretty sure they're out there. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="forestgreen"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lime">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lime">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | :They're not here already, but those icons are hard to see when they're so small. Check around Smashboards, though; I'm pretty sure they're out there. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="forestgreen"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lime">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lime">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
::Character head icons uploaded and used. Looks a lot better now. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 22:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | ::Character head icons uploaded and used. Looks a lot better now. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 22:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
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== Latest Match-up Chart == | == Latest Match-up Chart == | ||
I'll be the first to offer up my opinion and say: MY EYES. I'm not exaggerating when I say the colors are painful to look at. Can the colors be toned down? Also, the page stretch is pretty bad, even with my widescreen set-up. It's bound to be even worse on smaller/narrower screens. Can it be changed again? Simpler = better! [[ | I'll be the first to offer up my opinion and say: MY EYES. I'm not exaggerating when I say the colors are painful to look at. Can the colors be toned down? Also, the page stretch is pretty bad, even with my widescreen set-up. It's bound to be even worse on smaller/narrower screens. Can it be changed again? Simpler = better! [[Image:SDFnW_SmashWiki_sig.gif]] - <small>([[User:Silverdragon706|U]] • [[User talk:Silverdragon706|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|C]] )</small> 09:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
:I've faded the row colours, that should look less cringe-worthy. But are you suggesting that using a single image instead of a dynamic table takes up less space on a page? The [: | :I've faded the row colours, that should look less cringe-worthy. But are you suggesting that using a single image instead of a dynamic table takes up less space on a page? The [[:Image:Matchup.jpg|original matchup image]] is about the same size as the table, and the [[:Image:Match-upcharttier-8.jpg|more recent one]] is a decent amount bigger. So to me, horizontal stretch is inevitable for this page. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 12:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
In my opinion, I think the rows need to be a little bit bolder, or just pure black as opposed to the Cyan and Black. But, as much as I like the current one, [: | In my opinion, I think the rows need to be a little bit bolder, or just pure black as opposed to the Cyan and Black. But, as much as I like the current one, [[:Image:Matchup.jpg|this one ''does'' look a bit better and easier to look at.]] '''--[[User:The blue blur|<b><span style="color:darkblue">~The Blue</span></b>]]<b>[[User talk:The blue blur|<span style="color:purple"> Blur~</span>]]</b><sup>[[Special:Contributions/The blue blur|<span style="color:">New main in training!</span>]]</sup> 13:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
:As Masq stated, though, we can't only use symbols for matchups. There are too many ratios now to use anything other than numbers, and numbers are a lot larder to shrink than icons. That's why I used images with numbers in them: not only do images make it easier to add colour, but images can (and do) have a caption that appears on rollover in case you can't read it. (And the rows aren't cyan and black, they're faded versions of the character's primary colour.) [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 14:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | :As Masq stated, though, we can't only use symbols for matchups. There are too many ratios now to use anything other than numbers, and numbers are a lot larder to shrink than icons. That's why I used images with numbers in them: not only do images make it easier to add colour, but images can (and do) have a caption that appears on rollover in case you can't read it. (And the rows aren't cyan and black, they're faded versions of the character's primary colour.) [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 14:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
:Still harsh on the eyes. Why not a simple alternation of grey and white columns/rows? [[ | :Still harsh on the eyes. Why not a simple alternation of grey and white columns/rows? [[Image:SDFnW_SmashWiki_sig.gif]] - <small>([[User:Silverdragon706|U]] • [[User talk:Silverdragon706|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|C]] )</small> 22:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
::If it's good enough for iTunes... [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="forestgreen"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lime">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lime">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ::If it's good enough for iTunes... [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="forestgreen"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lime">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lime">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
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Some of the matchups on the chart make no sense in that for some it's A vs B is 50-50 even and the "Mirror" B vs A is 45-55. Why is this??? | Some of the matchups on the chart make no sense in that for some it's A vs B is 50-50 even and the "Mirror" B vs A is 45-55. Why is this??? | ||
[[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] ([[User talk:Atomix26|talk]]) 19:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC) | [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] ([[User talk:Atomix26|talk]]) 19:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
:The mirror numbers are actually based on two seperate think tanks, which I guess should be explained in the article. Take the MK vs. Wario matchup for example. The Wario people at SmashBoards agree amongst themselves that Wario has an even 50:50 matchup with MK, so Wario has a 50 in his MK column. However, the MK mainers think that MK has a slight 55:45 advantage, giving MK a 55 in his Wario column. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :The mirror numbers are actually based on two seperate think tanks, which I guess should be explained in the article. Take the MK vs. Wario matchup for example. The Wario people at SmashBoards agree amongst themselves that Wario has an even 50:50 matchup with MK, so Wario has a 50 in his MK column. However, the MK mainers think that MK has a slight 55:45 advantage, giving MK a 55 in his Wario column. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
::Not good. We need to keep this consistent. Regardless of what character is being played by whom, the theoretical match-ups remain the same. If the Meta-Knight people think one thing and the Wario people think another, that's nice, but the match-up chart is supposed to be purely a theoretical mathematical representation of the win-loss distribution of each match up. There can't be unequal mirrors; go with 47.5-52.5 if you must, but don't leave it like this. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 14:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC) | ::Not good. We need to keep this consistent. Regardless of what character is being played by whom, the theoretical match-ups remain the same. If the Meta-Knight people think one thing and the Wario people think another, that's nice, but the match-up chart is supposed to be purely a theoretical mathematical representation of the win-loss distribution of each match up. There can't be unequal mirrors; go with 47.5-52.5 if you must, but don't leave it like this. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 14:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::"The match-up chart is supposed to be purely a theoretical mathematical representation of the win-loss distribution of each match up." | ::::"The match-up chart is supposed to be purely a theoretical mathematical representation of the win-loss distribution of each match up." | ||
:::That's the best-case scenario, yes, and I would think that it would naturally come to that once the metagame is almost completely stable. However, I think it is unfeasible to forcibly conform it right now, mostly because some matchups have no numerical rating yet. Also, I would argue that the difference between the thoughts of both sides of a matchup is so small (5 points, usually) that it doesn't really matter. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :::That's the best-case scenario, yes, and I would think that it would naturally come to that once the metagame is almost completely stable. However, I think it is unfeasible to forcibly conform it right now, mostly because some matchups have no numerical rating yet. Also, I would argue that the difference between the thoughts of both sides of a matchup is so small (5 points, usually) that it doesn't really matter. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 14:47, 6 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
==Please remove the 'official' tag== | ==Please remove the 'official' tag== | ||
This chart is the farthest thing possible from 'official', and labelling it as such is extremely misleading. | This chart is the farthest thing possible from 'official', and labelling it as such is extremely misleading. | ||
To be honest this shouldn't even exist yet. Maybe another 6 months and things will look accurate. Uploading a chart that is not complete while full of disagreements between boards on ratios is a very bad thing to do. | To be honest this shouldn't even exist yet. Maybe another 6 months and things will look accurate. Uploading a chart that is not complete while full of disagreements between boards on ratios is a very bad thing to do. {{unsigned|121.45.126.206|14:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)}} | ||
:Why should this chart not exist yet? Is it a bad thing that it does? Besides, the chart is only meant to represent what the character boards believe the match-up ratio to be. They are not set in stone. However I do agree that the official part should be removed. [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 23:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC) | :Why should this chart not exist yet? Is it a bad thing that it does? Besides, the chart is only meant to represent what the character boards believe the match-up ratio to be. They are not set in stone. However I do agree that the official part should be removed. [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 23:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
==King Dedede's Chain Grabs== | ==King Dedede's Chain Grabs== | ||
Please, someone make the DK/DDD, Samus/DDD, Mario/DDD, Luigi/DDD and Bowser/DDD matchups divided with one with the infinite and other without the infinite. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 11:40, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | Please, someone make the DK/DDD, Samus/DDD, Mario/DDD, Luigi/DDD and Bowser/DDD matchups divided with one with the infinite and other without the infinite. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 11:40, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:I assmue "the" infinite is powerful enough to alter the matchups significantly, correct? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :I assmue "the" infinite is powerful enough to alter the matchups significantly, correct? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 14:07, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::It's devastating. For example the King Dedede/Donkey Kong matchup is considered 60/40 in King Dedede's favour (still very winnable) if the walking chain grab and infinite chain grab are banned. With the chain grabs it's like 90/10 or even worse. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 17:37, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | ::It's devastating. For example the King Dedede/Donkey Kong matchup is considered 60/40 in King Dedede's favour (still very winnable) if the walking chain grab and infinite chain grab are banned. With the chain grabs it's like 90/10 or even worse. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 17:37, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::Minor side note: please make a new section when you want to raise a new issue, and indent your responses to other users' comments by placing one more : before your comment than they placed before theirs. Thanks, '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 21:28, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | :::Minor side note: please make a new section when you want to raise a new issue, and indent your responses to other users' comments by placing one more : before your comment than they placed before theirs. Thanks, '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 21:28, October 3, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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No matchup charts for 64 and Melee? [[User:Yagomus|Yagomus]] ([[User talk:Yagomus|talk]]) 20:39, December 11, 2009 (UTC) | No matchup charts for 64 and Melee? [[User:Yagomus|Yagomus]] ([[User talk:Yagomus|talk]]) 20:39, December 11, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:No. There's an outdated Melee one All Characters Match-Up Chart|here, and I don't think people really ever analyzed the 64 matchups. I guess this page is slightly mistitled in that way (having only a a Brawl chart), but realistically most of the Smash Bros. population plays mostly Brawl anyway. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :No. There's an outdated Melee one [[All Characters Match-Up Chart|here]], and I don't think people really ever analyzed the 64 matchups. I guess this page is slightly mistitled in that way (having only a a Brawl chart), but realistically most of the Smash Bros. population plays mostly Brawl anyway. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:48, December 11, 2009 (UTC) | ||
==SSB and melee matchups== | ==SSB and melee matchups== | ||
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== Article splitting == | == Article splitting == | ||
I think that we should keep this page as a general explanation of what matchups are, but have the matchups for each game on seperate pages (such as [[Character matchups (SSB)]], [[Character matchups (SSBM)]], and [[Character matchups (SSBB)]]). For one thing, if all the matchups were on one page, it'd be ginormous. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | I think that we should keep this page as a general explanation of what matchups are, but have the matchups for each game on seperate pages (such as [[Character matchups (SSB)]], [[Character matchups (SSBM)]], and [[Character matchups (SSBB)]]). For one thing, if all the matchups were on one page, it'd be ginormous. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 18:22, February 27, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:That incentive is legitimate enough for my support. Are you going to separate the articles by yourself or would you like me to? <span style="border:2px outset blue;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 18:48, February 27, 2010 (UTC) | :That incentive is legitimate enough for my support. Are you going to separate the articles by yourself or would you like me to? <span style="border:2px outset blue;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 18:48, February 27, 2010 (UTC) | ||
::Done --[[User:KoRoBeNiKi|KoRoBeNiKi]] ([[User talk:KoRoBeNiKi|talk]]) 19:13, February 27, 2010 (UTC) | ::Done --[[User:KoRoBeNiKi|KoRoBeNiKi]] ([[User talk:KoRoBeNiKi|talk]]) 19:13, February 27, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:::NO. You might as well seperate the [[tier list]] into three seperate articles. Can you please undo this? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 01:24, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | :::NO. You might as well seperate the [[tier list]] into three seperate articles. Can you please undo this? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 01:24, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | ||
::::[[Tier list]] might actually work well split; you'd have enough room to put all the historical data for each game's development (like making note of the Ice Climber's shot upwards in SSBM when wobbling appeared). But anyway, do you have a particular reason why you really don't like this split? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | ::::[[Tier list]] might actually work well split; you'd have enough room to put all the historical data for each game's development (like making note of the Ice Climber's shot upwards in SSBM when wobbling appeared). But anyway, do you have a particular reason why you really don't like this split? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 02:08, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:::::Well, it was fine as one article. I see no point in the split. It the article wouldn't be that long if all three matchup charts were one. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 02:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | :::::Well, it was fine as one article. I see no point in the split. It the article wouldn't be that long if all three matchup charts were one. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 02:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | ||
::::::I suggested a split because of a few things. Someone elsewhere was wondering about the SSB64 matchups and where to put them. Since the SSBM matchups already had their own article (in a sense), I thought that a split would be the best thing - and in any case, the page had to be renamed at the least ("character matchups" implies either everything at once, or a short explanation followed by links to the specifics, which is more modular and controllable). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | ::::::I suggested a split because of a few things. Someone elsewhere was wondering about the SSB64 matchups and where to put them. Since the SSBM matchups already had their own article (in a sense), I thought that a split would be the best thing - and in any case, the page had to be renamed at the least ("character matchups" implies either everything at once, or a short explanation followed by links to the specifics, which is more modular and controllable). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 03:32, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:::::::Then why not put them all in one article? If that same person was looking for the SSB64 matchups, all they would need to do is type in "matchup", leading them to a page with all three matchup charts. There, it would be easy to find the chart that they want. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 04:57, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | :::::::Then why not put them all in one article? If that same person was looking for the SSB64 matchups, all they would need to do is type in "matchup", leading them to a page with all three matchup charts. There, it would be easy to find the chart that they want. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 04:57, February 28, 2010 (UTC) | ||
==whoa== | ==whoa== | ||
Why so many "undocumented" matchups this time around? Particularly Ike and Fox. I mean, I might be forgetful, but I'm fairly certain Ike and Fox both had more than 10 determined matchups. ''<span style="font-family: Blue Highway Linocut;">[[User:HavocReaper48|<font color="#87CEEB">--Havoc</font>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<font color="#007FFF ">Reaper</font>]][[w:c:ssb:User:HavocReaper48/Emoticonology|'48]]</span>'' 20:56, May 8, 2010 (UTC) | Why so many "undocumented" matchups this time around? Particularly Ike and Fox. I mean, I might be forgetful, but I'm fairly certain Ike and Fox both had more than 10 determined matchups. ''<span style="font-family: Blue Highway Linocut;">[[User:HavocReaper48|<font color="#87CEEB">--Havoc</font>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<font color="#007FFF ">Reaper</font>]][[w:c:ssb:User:HavocReaper48/Emoticonology|'48]]</span>'' 20:56, May 8, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:I take the data for this chart fom a SmashBoards thread, and the guy who does it there blanks matchups discussed in threads that are over a year old. I think it's an good idea, since a year-old matchup ratio is probably no longer accurate. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :I take the data for this chart fom a SmashBoards thread, and the guy who does it there blanks matchups discussed in threads that are over a year old. I think it's an good idea, since a year-old matchup ratio is probably no longer accurate. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 21:03, May 8, 2010 (UTC) | ||
==Vandalism?== | ==Vandalism?== | ||
Have you noticed that someone has changed some characters' heads? Link's head is Ness's and Pokémon Trainer's head is R.O.B's and something like that. Is it vandalism? [[User:Juusto423|Juusto423]] ([[User talk:Juusto423|talk]]) 15:55, May 9, 2010 (UTC) | Have you noticed that someone has changed some characters' heads? Link's head is Ness's and Pokémon Trainer's head is R.O.B's and something like that. Is it vandalism? [[User:Juusto423|Juusto423]] ([[User talk:Juusto423|talk]]) 15:55, May 9, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Is that a subtle stab at the current tier list? The table is ordered by the tier list and cannot be edited by IPs, and if there was any vandalism I'd have fixed it already. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :Is that a subtle stab at the current tier list? The table is ordered by the tier list and cannot be edited by IPs, and if there was any vandalism I'd have fixed it already. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 16:06, May 9, 2010 (UTC) | ||
==A couple of things i noticed that i dont entirely understand== | ==A couple of things i noticed that i dont entirely understand== | ||
*ok why is it that on some characters its undocumented yet when you look at others its got the match up for them when its the exact same match up like if you look at sonics row you see his chances of beating sheik are 40:60 yet if you look at sheiks you would think it would say 60:40 but its undocumented another example is dk and pkmn trainer | *ok why is it that on some characters its undocumented yet when you look at others its got the match up for them when its the exact same match up like if you look at sonics row you see his chances of beating sheik are 40:60 yet if you look at sheiks you would think it would say 60:40 but its undocumented another example is dk and pkmn trainer | ||
*2 how come for some of the match ups its different even though they are the same thing, such as when you look at zss on meta knight its 60:40 but when you look at meta knight on zss's row its 45:55 | *2 how come for some of the match ups its different even though they are the same thing, such as when you look at zss on meta knight its 60:40 but when you look at meta knight on zss's row its 45:55 {{unsigned|68.89.233.34|20:49, June 9, 2010 (UTC)}} | ||
:Each row is the opinion of that character's subforum on SmashBoards. The ZSS mains think their matchup with MK is 45:55, while the MK mains think it's 60:40. The Sonic mains think their matchup with Sheik is 40:60, while the Sheik mains haven't discussed it yet or aren't in agreement over a rating. Yeah, it's not intuitive, but until the metagame is completely stable there's no real alternative. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[ | :Each row is the opinion of that character's subforum on SmashBoards. The ZSS mains think their matchup with MK is 45:55, while the MK mains think it's 60:40. The Sonic mains think their matchup with Sheik is 40:60, while the Sheik mains haven't discussed it yet or aren't in agreement over a rating. Yeah, it's not intuitive, but until the metagame is completely stable there's no real alternative. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC) | ||