Editing Talk:Byleth (SSBU)

==[https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Byleth_(SSBU)&diff=1354626&oldid=1354624 This trivia point]==
This post is not about keeping the point, but rather the counter to the point.

I noticed some people mention this was brought up in the Direct. While it is true that Sakurai said he couldn't get a good feel for Byleth with the early version of the game that he borrowed, do keep in mind that, in November of 2018, when the game also went gold (i.e., ready for printing), the DLC characters were decided, and Sakurai, between that point and July 2019 (when ''Three Houses'' finally released), had the early game at some point. This in no way supports the idea that Byleth was supposed to be in the base roster. I think people are mixing that point with how he mentions he also borrowed ''Breath of the Wild'' in its early stages as well to figure out what to do with Link, since he said that waiting for that full game would've delayed ''Ultimate''. ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aqVlLlKkcg#t=562 Timestamp for the start of his comments in the Direct about this topic]) [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 15:03, January 18, 2020 (EST)

This is true [[User:Lucina-is-better-than-marth|Lucina-is-better-than-marth]] ([[User talk:Lucina-is-better-than-marth|talk]]) 16:53, January 20, 2020 (EST)

==[https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Byleth_(SSBU)&diff=1356201&oldid=1356017 This other trivia point]==
Because male and female Byleth have different names in Japanese, the Japanese website lists out both names. I'm pretty sure that's a first for the series, as Alph is never named on the website. However, in order to avoid an edit war with SuperSmashTurtles, I'm going to ask: is this sort of thing notable? [[Special:Contributions/72.203.118.154|72.203.118.154]] 01:13, January 21, 2020 (EST)

== About another trivia point ==

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Special:MobileDiff/1361888

Didn't Greninja, Robin, Lucina, debut on the 3DS, and then have their Smash debut in Smash for 3DS (and Wii U)? [[User:Mudd|Mudd]] ([[User talk:Mudd|talk]]) 10:56, January 29, 2020 (EST)

== Byleth's Frame data, for review or further discussion. ==

Although I am not that consistent with how I count frames, I have spent a little bit of time counting frames, and I would like to have them double checked before they are added. The methodology I count frames with is that I start counting frames after the input is detected, using the ingame 1 frame speed tool. I also stop counting after including the frame where I can see Byleth start to grab, as it does not have an animation blend as far as I can tell. I do not have all the attacks listed, as it is hard to tell when specifically when hitboxes become active, so I'll leave those out. I will also try to recount some frames that appear to be a bit vague. Just as a side note, I am not sure if there is a frame difference for the attacks in the air, but they are tested on the ground with a grab to check for control every paused frame, described earlier in the paragraph.

Starting with side tilt, ground: 8 frames from start to hitbox first active. 13 frames, and the trail is now only under Byleth, hitbox now not active? Frame later, trail completely disappears and frame 21 and his sword no longer glows. 34 frames and control is back.

Up tilt (ground): 9 frames, and sword glows (no trail yet, although possible hitbox?), frame later, trail appears. 11 frames, and reaches above platform, as confirmed by a willing Diddy. 16 frames and reaches in front. 20 and trail fully disappears. 35 and control is possible

Down tilt (ground): 11 frames and sword glows (although no hitbox as confirmed by person standing right behind), 13 and closest hit is achieved. 19-20 frames and hitbox appears to disappear by the lack of attack trail. 36 and control is back.

Down b, ground form: 60 frames, and the back hitbox is active. 3 frames later, directly in front gets hit. A few frames later, the axe hits the ground, of which I started counting again: small AOE appears active 4-6 frames later, although by visual confirmation. 24 frames after ground hit, and most of the visual effects are gone. 68 frames after the ground got hit, Byleth was able to move again. I may just recount everything and edit this at a later time.

Side b (just the basic inputs, no special "tilt" as the game calls it, also ground form): Frame 16, and Byleth starts to lunge forward and push characters that are touching him (no knockback, yet. Just a push). I have notes as frame 30 being the swing mostly done (edit coming perhaps), and 34, and I think the hitbox deactivates, but trial still exists; 45, and trail completely disappears; leaving with frame 58, control resumes.

Up b (ground): 11 and a trail is visible directly in front of Byleth. Frame later, a spark can be seen (not sure of importance). 16 frames and reaches to top platform of the Training battlefield section. I am unable to confirm frame counts for any other aspect just because of the hit stun appears to stall the attack animation.

Neutral b just takes most of a second to fully charge, then lingers for a few frames when fully charged. Appears like  disjointed hitbox but behaves like a projectile because Link is able to use his shield to block it.

Side smash (ground): 23 frames and first damage is dealt, but only to people touching him. The next frame, his staff is fully extended. 40 frames and hitbox may be disabled? (fire and shine disappears at 31, glow at frame 40), 44 and start to retract staff, 66-ish frames later control resumes.

Down smash (ground): 19 frames, and a hit is possible on the front. 50 frames and a once 0% Diddy is flying and animation resumes. 58 (including those hitstun frames) and trail completely disappears for front side. 59 and back side gets some love, with the trails fully disappearing at 68. 105 (including 1 hit) and control is back.

Up smash: 15 and first trail appears and it disappears at 30. As for actual hitbox duration outside of those times, I do not know. 59 and control is back.

This really doesn't fit anywhere in here, but if Byleth's upb connects with a wall, Byleth will go to that latch point and wall jump off of it.

I am willing to try to record video proof of frame data, but that may just come later, but for now, I just want to share the data I have tested and want to find a place to put it. 	[[User:Rukir|Rukir]] ([[User talk:Rukir|talk]]) 16:21, January 29, 2020 (EST)

== Crest Stone Trivia ==

Should I add in trivia that says the Crest Designs on the Crest Stones are present in this game as well?
[[User:CleffaGirl173|CleffaGirl173]] ([[User talk:CleffaGirl173|talk]]) 12:21, February 1, 2020 (EST)

== Add female Byleth's up taunt gif? ==

It's different from Male Byleth's

== We need to reach a consensus on how to refer to Avatars ==

Robin and Corrin's pages frequently use they/them/their, but for some reason Byleth uses he/his. Why?<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:2.26.12.58|2.26.12.58]] ([[User talk:2.26.12.58|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/2.26.12.58|contribs]]) 17:45, February 18, 2020 (EST)</small>
:I've quickly looked through the characters that have multiple genders ([[Corrin (SSBU)]], [[Robin (SSBU)]], [[Pokémon Trainer (SSBU)]], [[Villager (SSBU)]], [[Wii Fit Trainer (SSBU)]], and [[Inkling (SSBU)]] (and technically [[Bowser Jr. (SSBU)]])) and found that most of them do use gender-neutral pronouns at some point and default pronouns at roughly the same frequency, but they omit pronouns much more often. Byleth seems to be the only one that uses his default pronoun more, however omitting is still much more common. I won't make a call on 'default', 'neutral', or 'none at all', just putting out an observation. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 10:47, February 20, 2020 (EST)
::There ''is'' a consensus: "[[SmashWiki:Manual of Style#Writing Style|When discussing these characters in the context of their home series, it is acceptable to refer to them with gender-neutral language. When discussing these characters as Smash Bros. fighters, it is preferred to use the gender of the default costume. In either case, omitting pronouns entirely is a valid style as long as the text does not become unnecessarily clunky.]]" Any articles that don't follow this should be fixed. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 13:15, February 20, 2020 (EST)
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@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ==[https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Byleth_(SSBU)&diff=1356201&oldid=1356017 This other trivia point]==
 Because male and female Byleth have different names in Japanese, the Japanese website lists out both names. I'm pretty sure that's a first for the series, as Alph is never named on the website. However, in order to avoid an edit war with SuperSmashTurtles, I'm going to ask: is this sort of thing notable? [[Special:Contributions/72.203.118.154|72.203.118.154]] 01:13, January 21, 2020 (EST)
-I would consider this first to be notable, but I am not the expert in this scenario. I reckon it's not the end of the world as is, since the trivia already mentions the different Japanese names. [[User:IMDCombee|IMDCombee]] ([[User talk:IMDCombee|talk]]) 13:35, May 21, 2022 (EDT)
-:This post is over 2 years old and both names are already listed on the page. Also, the trivia point in question as been re-added since this post. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 13:48, May 21, 2022 (EDT)
 == About another trivia point ==
@@ Line 17: / Line 14: @@
 Didn't Greninja, Robin, Lucina, debut on the 3DS, and then have their Smash debut in Smash for 3DS (and Wii U)? [[User:Mudd|Mudd]] ([[User talk:Mudd|talk]]) 10:56, January 29, 2020 (EST)
-Yeah, but that's smash 4, not ultimate [[User:MeleeBoi|MeleeBoi]] ([[User talk:MeleeBoi|talk]]) 12:05, February 22, 2020 (EST)
 == Byleth's Frame data, for review or further discussion. ==
@@ Line 56: / Line 51: @@
 It's different from Male Byleth's
-:Um, how exactly is it different from male Byleth’s up taunt? A reminder, please end your statements with four swiggly lines (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). [[User:Son Daniel|<span style="font-family: Arial;color:red;">SonDaniel</span>]][[File:SonDanielSignatureHead1.png|20px]][[File:SonDanielSignatureHead2.png|20px]] [[User talk:Son Daniel|(talk page)]] 19:55, April 7, 2020 (EDT)
-:She holds it in a reverse grip and assumes a more feminine pose, most notable with her legs. [[Special:Contributions/8.40.199.25|8.40.199.25]] 16:09, April 14, 2020 (EDT)
 == We need to reach a consensus on how to refer to Avatars ==
@@ Line 64: / Line 57: @@
 :I've quickly looked through the characters that have multiple genders ([[Corrin (SSBU)]], [[Robin (SSBU)]], [[Pokémon Trainer (SSBU)]], [[Villager (SSBU)]], [[Wii Fit Trainer (SSBU)]], and [[Inkling (SSBU)]] (and technically [[Bowser Jr. (SSBU)]])) and found that most of them do use gender-neutral pronouns at some point and default pronouns at roughly the same frequency, but they omit pronouns much more often. Byleth seems to be the only one that uses his default pronoun more, however omitting is still much more common. I won't make a call on 'default', 'neutral', or 'none at all', just putting out an observation. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 10:47, February 20, 2020 (EST)
 ::There ''is'' a consensus: "[[SmashWiki:Manual of Style#Writing Style|When discussing these characters in the context of their home series, it is acceptable to refer to them with gender-neutral language. When discussing these characters as Smash Bros. fighters, it is preferred to use the gender of the default costume. In either case, omitting pronouns entirely is a valid style as long as the text does not become unnecessarily clunky.]]" Any articles that don't follow this should be fixed. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 13:15, February 20, 2020 (EST)
-== Bind Pose ==
-I think we should have an image on the a pose along with terry [[User:MeleeBoi|MeleeBoi]] ([[User talk:MeleeBoi|talk]]) 09:31, February 25, 2020 (EST)
-== What Sakurai Said ==
-I completely get that we shouldn't make mention of any fan hate aimed at Byleth or the Fire Emblem series, but now Sakurai himself has come out and agreed that there are "Too many Fire Emblem Characters". Do you think that this at least is noteworthy and should be mentioned? [[Special:Contributions/73.40.56.255|73.40.56.255]] 11:25, March 5, 2020 (EST) SquireTurnbolt
-That could be good to mention, but maybe on the Fire Emblem universe page [[User:MeleeBoi|MeleeBoi]] ([[User talk:MeleeBoi|talk]]) 09:28, March 13, 2020 (EDT)
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