Editing Talk:Bowser (SSBU)

==Flying Slam==

[[Sacrificial KO#Grab-based sacrificial KOs|The Sacrifical KO page is saying that Bowser now always wins to Bowsercide.]] Yet this information has yet to be displayed on this page. Can anyone confirm if Flying Slam now lets Bowser win?

[[User:Mjmannella|Mjmannella]] ([[User talk:Mjmannella|talk]]) 10:13, 16 September 2018 (EDT)

== BOWSER (SSBU) LACKS COMPETITIVE PLAYER NAMES. ==

[[Special:Contributions/216.235.150.229|216.235.150.229]] 08:22, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

== Wait ==

...I could have sworn I was ''removing'' the opinionated sentence...''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 17:23, June 28, 2019 (EDT)
:Yea, I was going to ask you about that. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:23, June 28, 2019 (EDT)
::I deadass stared at those undos like "what is going on" before I finally realized how dumb I am. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 19:07, June 28, 2019 (EDT)

== Bowser viability ==

Is there even any proof that Bowser is viable.
:The metegame is still too young to make a final definitive decision, but Bowser has great results so far so I would say yes. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 12:24, October 13, 2019 (EDT)

== Changing a line in his "Changes from Smash 4" section ==

'''"Bowser has earned great representation in ''Ultimate''{{'}}s early metagame, thanks to players such as {{Sm|LeoN}}, who has taken sets off of top players like {{Sm|Nairo}}, {{Sm|Cosmos}}, {{Sm|Marss}}, {{Sm|Dabuz}} and {{Sm|Light|p=Connecticut}}."'''

I'm changing the line, as of the moment I'm writing this discussion, to '''"Thanks to this, Bowser has earned great representation in ''Ultimate''{{'}}s competitive play, thanks to players such as {{Sm|LeoN}}, who has taken sets off of many notable top players in tournament play."''', since his most notable names are listed in the "In competitive play" section already. [[User:Beep|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:Beep|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 16:12, December 9, 2019 (EST)
: Sounds good. Just as a general bit of advice, by the way: you don't have to write talk page entries for this kind of thing unless someone undoes it and you want to explain your reasoning. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 16:22, December 9, 2019 (EST)
:: You see, there is a line after the phrase that was hidden, which said: "PLEASE STOP changing this sentence. Any further attempts will be considered edit warring and immediately reverted. If you wish to discuss it, do so on the talk page.". That's why I had to bring it up here. [[User:Beep|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:Beep|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 16:34, December 9, 2019 (EST)
::: Ah, my mistake, I'm not super familiar with this page. But yeah, that feels like a fine change; I assume there was an edit war earlier but this is A-OK in my eyes. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 16:42, December 9, 2019 (EST)

== Bowser's Forward throw ==

I truly believe that Bowser no longer have the strongest forward throw in the game. With Incineroar and Charizard getting theirs buffed, they have surpassed the kill% for Bowser's. According to the [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/m1bn43/rough_estimate_for_1100_knockback_changes_updated compiled list], Bowser kills mid 100 weight Mii Swordfighter at the ledge at 116%, later than Incineroar's 103% and Charizard's 105%. Sure the post said it is a rough estimate but there are more evidence than this. According to values such as base knockback and knockback growth, Charizard's Forward throw base knockback and knockback growth were buffed and has surpassed Bowser's values. The values are 63/70 which are more than Bowser's even tho the throw itself deal 2% less damage. For Incineroar, the knockback got buffed to 58, while still slightly less than Bowser's, it deals the same damage and has way more base knockback than him to compensate with. Even tho the kill% shouldn't have anything to do with DI in the moveset sections, it is mentioned that Bowser's forward throw would give the opponent more time to DI property anyways which means it is consistently not the strongest throw. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 12:08, April 24, 2021 (EDT)

:But I guess it would be debatable on whether Incineroar or Charizard has the strongest forward throw, because while the former has noticably more base knockback, the latter still have quite a bit more knockback growth. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 00:38, April 25, 2021 (EDT)

:I checked in the Smash calculator, on the absolute edge of FD against Mario with no rage and optimal DI, Bowser's kills at 152%, Zard's at 154%, and Incineroar's at 139%. From the center of FD, those KO%s become 207% for Bowser's, 224% for Zard's, and 202% for Incineroar's. With max rage on FD's edge, Bowser's kills at 127%, Zard's at 125%, and Incineroar's at 111%. With max rage on FD's center, Bowser's kills at 177%, Zard's at 189%, and Incineroar's at 168%. Also keep in mind that these %s don't factor in the opponent's actual release point, as Incineroar's and especially Zard's release the opponent farther away from their center, which would lower the KO%s quite a bit (Zard's in actuality would KO about 5% or so lower).

:From these numbers, it's clear Incineroar has the strongest forward throw in Ultimate, and factor in how Zard's scales better with rage and throws the opponent from farther away, it's probably KOing earlier than Bowser's on average, making it the better KO throw in practice. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:48, April 26, 2021 (EDT)

== Bowser's moves being "outclassed" by his other moves ==

I don't think Bowser's jab and dair should be listed as being outclassed / lacking utility in the Attributes section - his jab has far more range than his grounded up B, has wacky hurtbox shifting, kills, and is way WAY safer on whiff and shield - it is actually just a better move. In addition, dair is listed as lacking utility because it isn't similar to other stall-then-falls, but the vertical hurtbox shifting and kill power make it much more dangerous to juggle Bowser than otherwise, and it is also a solid ledgetrapping mixup as shown off by Hero's gameplay. The other moves I don't really care about but those two, in my opinion, stick out like a sore thumb.

[[User:IcyKeswick|IcyKeswick]] ([[User talk:IcyKeswick|talk]]) 03:52, May 10, 2023 (EDT)
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	[[User:IcyKeswick\|IcyKeswick]] ([[User talk:IcyKeswick\|talk]]) 03:52, May 10, 2023 (EDT)		[[User:IcyKeswick\|IcyKeswick]] ([[User talk:IcyKeswick\|talk]]) 03:52, May 10, 2023 (EDT)
	:I agree, feel free to edit and correct that information. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:38, May 10, 2023 (EDT)
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