Editing Talk:Blaster (Fox)
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::::::Saying that Fox and Wolf share the same neutral special because they shoot a gun is like saying that Samus and Snake share a side special because they both shoot missiles, or that Fox and Wolf also share a neutral special with Joker because they all have guns. Different models, different projectiles, different uses, different animations, I could go on. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 13:07, May 7, 2019 (EDT) | ::::::Saying that Fox and Wolf share the same neutral special because they shoot a gun is like saying that Samus and Snake share a side special because they both shoot missiles, or that Fox and Wolf also share a neutral special with Joker because they all have guns. Different models, different projectiles, different uses, different animations, I could go on. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 13:07, May 7, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::::Moves that have the same name, but the users come from different series (regardless how similar it works) get separate pages, as is the case with the move "Thunder". We have [[Thunder (Pokemon)]] as there's more than one user from ''Pokemon'' (Pikachu & Pichu), and [[Thunder (Robin)]] as he is the only ''Fire Emblem'' character to use it. You can compare Samus and Snake's move from a technical standpoint, but not as the same move in terms of a page as the characters are from different series. Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all from ''Star Fox'', and they each have a move called "Blaster". If not able to do the same combos and techniques with all three are a main concern, those tend to change depending on the installment (which can be noted). Other moves have had slight differences, but were/are enough to give them their own page as they had different names, similarly, despite others having more noticeable differences, they share the page as they have the same name and come from the same series. | :::::::Moves that have the same name, but the users come from different series (regardless how similar it works) get separate pages, as is the case with the move "Thunder". We have [[Thunder (Pokemon)]] as there's more than one user from ''Pokemon'' (Pikachu & Pichu), and [[Thunder (Robin)]] as he is the only ''Fire Emblem'' character to use it. You can compare Samus and Snake's move from a technical standpoint, but not as the same move in terms of a page as the characters are from different series. Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all from ''Star Fox'', and they each have a move called "Blaster". If not able to do the same combos and techniques with all three are a main concern, those tend to change depending on the installment (which can be noted). Other moves have had slight differences, but were/are enough to give them their own page as they had different names, similarly, despite others having more noticeable differences, they share the page as they have the same name and come from the same series. | ||
:::::::As Xtra3678 mentioned, Xtra created a draft (User:Xtra3678/Blaster) on how it can/could look like if they get merged. If one does not like how it looks, then they try editing it in a way that make seance. (I would suggest looking at other moves with multiple users so it looks similar.) [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 14:30, May 7, 2019 (EDT) | :::::::As Xtra3678 mentioned, Xtra created a draft ([[User:Xtra3678/Blaster]]) on how it can/could look like if they get merged. If one does not like how it looks, then they try editing it in a way that make seance. (I would suggest looking at other moves with multiple users so it looks similar.) [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 14:30, May 7, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::Why is name/universe a factor in keeping them merged? While it does make finding the page easier, this obviously isn't the first time two things in Smash (or even two moves) shared the same name, as you mentioned. Besides, keeping two or more moves in one page because they share the same name and are used are members of the same universe limits their possibility. As mentioned by several within this discussion, the differences between the blasters (especially Wolf's) are major enough to warrant their own pages. Relating to this, Mario's Fireballs should be separated from Luigi's, Richter's Holy Water should be separated from Simon's, etc. Unless if two moves are almost exactly the same and they share the same name, they should should be separated. It'll take a bit of work, but I feel like it would be best to keep these two split. Besides, [[Megavitamins]] has its own page, so... [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 09:50, May 15, 2019 (EDT) | :::::::::Why is name/universe a factor in keeping them merged? While it does make finding the page easier, this obviously isn't the first time two things in Smash (or even two moves) shared the same name, as you mentioned. Besides, keeping two or more moves in one page because they share the same name and are used are members of the same universe limits their possibility. As mentioned by several within this discussion, the differences between the blasters (especially Wolf's) are major enough to warrant their own pages. Relating to this, Mario's Fireballs should be separated from Luigi's, Richter's Holy Water should be separated from Simon's, etc. Unless if two moves are almost exactly the same and they share the same name, they should should be separated. It'll take a bit of work, but I feel like it would be best to keep these two split. Besides, [[Megavitamins]] has its own page, so... [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 09:50, May 15, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::::::::If name/universe is not a factor then there would need to be justification for not merging Ganondorf and Captain Falcon's special moves or Omnislash with Secret Ninja Attack. Also [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]], you are suppose to only reply after a person's signature, not within their post. [[Help:Talk_page|It makes things confusing otherwise]]. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 19:09, May 15, 2019 (EDT) | ::::::::::If name/universe is not a factor then there would need to be justification for not merging Ganondorf and Captain Falcon's special moves or Omnislash with Secret Ninja Attack. Also [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]], you are suppose to only reply after a person's signature, not within their post. [[Help:Talk_page|It makes things confusing otherwise]]. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 19:09, May 15, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::::Apologies for that, the amount of text there is made it confusing. As for that, the visuals are radically different for the first, while for the latter, Omnislash deals 50% while Secret Ninja Attack deals 52%. These moves are easy to tell apart just from looking at them, which I feel is the point I'm trying to make. If the move either has majorly different effects, damage output, lag, etc, then the move should be separated. While I could see Fox and Falco's being combined (albeit with a grain of salt), Wolf's is definitely able to be told apart from Fox's/Falco's blasters. Hopefully this all makes sense. (Edit: Looking at Falco's neutral B compared to Fox's, I think there were be a lot more salt from me than just a grain if they were combined.) [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 12:23, May 16, 2019 (EDT) | :::::::::::Apologies for that, the amount of text there is made it confusing. As for that, the visuals are radically different for the first, while for the latter, Omnislash deals 50% while Secret Ninja Attack deals 52%. These moves are easy to tell apart just from looking at them, which I feel is the point I'm trying to make. If the move either has majorly different effects, damage output, lag, etc, then the move should be separated. While I could see Fox and Falco's being combined (albeit with a grain of salt), Wolf's is definitely able to be told apart from Fox's/Falco's blasters. Hopefully this all makes sense. (Edit: Looking at Falco's neutral B compared to Fox's, I think there were be a lot more salt from me than just a grain if they were combined.) [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 12:23, May 16, 2019 (EDT) | ||
There is also a draft of what the merged blasters page would look like (can be found at User:Xtra3678/Blaster), and the current draft keeps literally all of the wolf information on wolfs page, in its own seperate heading, keeping all the current information and not messing up anything. It could even be improved in order to show how it is still a very different projectile from the other 2 starfox charecters, however in its current state there should be no problems with the move being "too different to share a page" because it clearly shows off its differences in the draft page.<span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 10:41, May 7, 2019 (EDT) | There is also a draft of what the merged blasters page would look like (can be found at [[User:Xtra3678/Blaster]]), and the current draft keeps literally all of the wolf information on wolfs page, in its own seperate heading, keeping all the current information and not messing up anything. It could even be improved in order to show how it is still a very different projectile from the other 2 starfox charecters, however in its current state there should be no problems with the move being "too different to share a page" because it clearly shows off its differences in the draft page.<span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 10:41, May 7, 2019 (EDT) | ||
Merge fox and Falco’s blaster and keep wolf blaster as it’s on page [[User:Thegameandwatch|Thegameandwatch]] ([[User talk:Thegameandwatch|talk]]) 17:18, May 8, 2019 (EDT) | Merge fox and Falco’s blaster and keep wolf blaster as it’s on page [[User:Thegameandwatch|Thegameandwatch]] ([[User talk:Thegameandwatch|talk]]) 17:18, May 8, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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:::Like I mentioned before, the differences of the "models" are just aesthetic, which just a ''visual'' difference. (I feel we're beginning to go in circles) The Blasters in ''Smash 4'' have different customs but they are still the same move. Although they have different custom names, so do Link and Toon Link's [[Bomb (Link)|bombs]] which are on the same page and are considered the same move. In the case with Origin, it does not seem to matter if Wolf's has no Origin in comparison as it seems that Wolf's Blaster is just based on Fox's (plus its currently just copy pasted information on the page). [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 22:17, May 8, 2019 (EDT) | :::Like I mentioned before, the differences of the "models" are just aesthetic, which just a ''visual'' difference. (I feel we're beginning to go in circles) The Blasters in ''Smash 4'' have different customs but they are still the same move. Although they have different custom names, so do Link and Toon Link's [[Bomb (Link)|bombs]] which are on the same page and are considered the same move. In the case with Origin, it does not seem to matter if Wolf's has no Origin in comparison as it seems that Wolf's Blaster is just based on Fox's (plus its currently just copy pasted information on the page). [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 22:17, May 8, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::So what your saying is that you think the 1 laser blaster looks different from the other laser blaster, and has a slower laser but other than that is mostly identical in origin, origin series, name, how you use it, and generally the way it is portrayed in smash, and has also been proven to be reliably able to show differences if put on the same page as the other blaster due to the draft, and yet you still think these 2 moves are radically and instrumentally different and would be "one of the worst things to suggest a merge for" despite all the shown reasons to be merged. It doesn't add up. the reasons you have supplied are greatly outweighed by the reasons to do the merge. Please just look at User:Xtra3678/Blaster for one second and then look at [[Blaster (Wolf)]] and please tell me what's so different between the 2 that makes it such a bad decision. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 00:04, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | :::So what your saying is that you think the 1 laser blaster looks different from the other laser blaster, and has a slower laser but other than that is mostly identical in origin, origin series, name, how you use it, and generally the way it is portrayed in smash, and has also been proven to be reliably able to show differences if put on the same page as the other blaster due to the draft, and yet you still think these 2 moves are radically and instrumentally different and would be "one of the worst things to suggest a merge for" despite all the shown reasons to be merged. It doesn't add up. the reasons you have supplied are greatly outweighed by the reasons to do the merge. Please just look at [[User:Xtra3678/Blaster]] for one second and then look at [[Blaster (Wolf)]] and please tell me what's so different between the 2 that makes it such a bad decision. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 00:04, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::I did read the draft. I stated this when the original merge proposal was happening, and I’ll say it again: why would I want Fox and Falco’s advanced techniques if I’m trying to search up something for Wolf? Why would I want to know about their customs and throws if Wolf has none of that? And I already talked about how you wanted them merged because they “share” an origin. Except they actually don’t. Wolf’s blaster was created specifically for Brawl, which is evident by its gigantic overhaul in Ultimate. Fox and Falco use actual designs and lasers from the Star Fox games. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 01:15, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | ::::I did read the draft. I stated this when the original merge proposal was happening, and I’ll say it again: why would I want Fox and Falco’s advanced techniques if I’m trying to search up something for Wolf? Why would I want to know about their customs and throws if Wolf has none of that? And I already talked about how you wanted them merged because they “share” an origin. Except they actually don’t. Wolf’s blaster was created specifically for Brawl, which is evident by its gigantic overhaul in Ultimate. Fox and Falco use actual designs and lasers from the Star Fox games. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 01:15, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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Because of this, I feel that it would be a good idea to separate Fox's 64 Blaster Shot from his Melee/Brawl/4/Ult Blaster. [[User:SuperSqank|SuperSqank]] 08:03, 7 October 2020 (EDT) | Because of this, I feel that it would be a good idea to separate Fox's 64 Blaster Shot from his Melee/Brawl/4/Ult Blaster. [[User:SuperSqank|SuperSqank]] 08:03, 7 October 2020 (EDT) | ||
:'''Support split''' for consistency's sake. <span style="color:#f6b">---</span>[[User:PinkYoshiFan|<span style="color:#F6B">Pink</span>]][[User talk:PinkYoshiFan|<span style="color:#F6B">Yoshi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PinkYoshiFan|<span style="color:#f6b">Fan</span>]] 08:24, October 7, 2020 (EDT) | :'''Support split''' for consistency's sake. <span style="color:#f6b">---</span>[[User:PinkYoshiFan|<span style="color:#F6B">Pink</span>]][[User talk:PinkYoshiFan|<span style="color:#F6B">Yoshi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PinkYoshiFan|<span style="color:#f6b">Fan</span>]] 08:24, October 7, 2020 (EDT) | ||
:'''Oppose''' The changes made to the move aren't substancial enough, in my opinion, to warrant an entire page of their own. The move only had those properties in Smash 64 as well. I think it's better to write a few lines detailing the changes made in ''Melee''s section rather than an entire page that will likely be pretty small. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 13:42, October 7, 2020 (EDT | :'''Oppose''' The changes made to the move aren't substancial enough, in my opinion, to warrant an entire page of their own. The move only had those properties in Smash 64 as well. I think it's better to write a few lines detailing the changes made in ''Melee'''s section rather than an entire page that will likely be pretty small. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 13:42, October 7, 2020 (EDT) | ||
