Editing Talk:Bayonetta (SSBU)

==trivia==
Earlier today, i noticed in the Trivia section that there was a "bug" spotted in the match between Plup and MkLeo. This "bug" involves Bayonetta's triple jump technique. We do not know if this technique is intended or not. I've been trying to remove this piece of trivia, since it's mostly speculative info and has no factual evidence of said tech being a bug or not. I think we can discuss this all we want but should refrain from posting speculative information that might spread misinformation. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:212.251.255.82|212.251.255.82]] ([[User talk:212.251.255.82|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/212.251.255.82|contribs]]) 14:09, July 13, 2018</small>
:Since you seem to blatantly be ignoring what I say in my edit summary, I'll try this:

:''I am not talking about her fucking up special move''. She used her ''double jump'', and then used her up special regularly, jumped and then up specialed (which is a thing you can do, and I am ''not saying it is a bug''), jumped and then up specialed ''again'', and then ''used her double jump '''again'''''. ''Read what I write the next time you try to make an argument''. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:50, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

::That's literally Bayonetta's triple jump glitch. She can do that in Smash 4 too. If you use your double jump and up-B within one frame you can double jump again. MKLeo jumped, used Witch Twist, jumped and immediately Witch Twisted again, then jumped. Regardless I don't see why this is so important to note on Bayo's Ultimate page when the "glitch" is widely known to have existed in Smash 4 since her release and is also argued by many to be a feature not a bug (to lessen SDs from Tap Jump users.) This thought is noted by players like Salem. [[User:Shimesa|Shimesa]] ([[User talk:Shimesa|talk]]) 17:05, 13 July 2018 (EDT)
:::That's not what Leo did. He already used his double jump, if you look at the video. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:41, 13 July 2018 (EDT)
::::Alright, after having looked at the full context of the scene (outside of ZeRo's clip), I can say that [https://youtu.be/W9qDYoDnTDw?t=1m13s Leo hadn't used his regular double jump yet], so it isn't a glitch. But, regardless, I '''''still''''' was not talking about her up special jump. Read what I say before jumping to conclusions. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:55, 13 July 2018 (EDT)
:::::I knew what you meant, I was just clarifying since, as I said I don't feel like this needs to be noted on her Ultimate page since it is something doable in Smash 4. [[User:Shimesa|Shimesa]] ([[User talk:Shimesa|talk]]) 00:06, 14 July 2018 (EDT)

== Glasses ==

Can we note that she is the first and only Super Smash Bros. character ever to wear glasses? [[User:Meta Billy|Meta Billy]] ([[User talk:Meta Billy|talk]]) 09:37, 28 August 2018 (EDT)
:Not really that notable or interesting... [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 09:47, 28 August 2018 (EDT)
::That, and [[Koopalings#Iggy Koopa|she isn't]]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 10:06, 28 August 2018 (EDT)
:::Does iggy even count considering hes just a character skin for Jr.?<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 02:01, 30 August 2018 (EDT)

== Downwards After Burner Kick ==

DAB Kick has a different launch angle, now. This video of Captain Zack vs. Ryuga shows DAB Kick sending at an upwards launch angle. The specific angle is, obviously, unknown. But, it may be the same 80° angle that she had before 1.1.6 in Smash 4. Check out the video and tell me what you think. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLsfpf6cOTs Timestamp=4:40 &5:38
If you agree, let's add it to the Wiki! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 18:08, 17 November 2018 (EST)
:I feel like it's still kinda debatable. To me,  does seem like it's at a different angle, however looking at Smash 4, it looks the same. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 18:15, 17 November 2018 (EST)
:Problem is that the game is not complete at the time of this video, meaning that what you're trying to add is subject to change. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 18:17, 17 November 2018 (EST)

I can easily tell that it's not the dreaded 60° angle it was in Smash 4...only if DI'ed away! I've seen more examples, too! Not just this one! And, I DID check to see what the opponent was doing before the move hit! It only sent at its previous 60° angle when they were moving (in the air) or running away from Cereza. I have hope that I'm correct and they finally changed the angle back! But, we might not know for certain until we go into training mode! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 18:22, 17 November 2018 (EST)

And, if it isn't true, how do we know we're not wrong about other moves' launch angles such as Mario's down throw or down tilt. Those have been rumored to have different launch angles, too. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 18:25, 17 November 2018 (EST)

But, speaking of Mario, one video I did watch had him doing his grab animation i.e not moving as the DAB Kick hit him. Whether he buffered a DI option, though, is known only by the player. So, he could've been ready to run towards Cereza. We really don't know that, for sure, though. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 18:29, 17 November 2018 (EST)

But, the fact that Ike was in his upward hitstun animation makes me highly believe that the angle was changed! So, I'd really like the buff to be added to the Wiki! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 13:28, 23 November 2018 (EST)

We have to remember that, even if DI was present, the opponent's hitstun animation will NOT change! For example: If a character uses a move that launches at a 75° angle, but, the opponent DI'ed it and made himself be sent at a 65° angle, he'd still enter his upward hitstun animation rather than his horizontal hitstun animation due to the move's programmed upward 75° launch angle! 

TL:DR Characters, in this game, hit by Bayonetta's DAB Kick always enter their upward hitstun animation and that proves that the angle was clearly changed! So, can we just stop arguing about this and let me add the buff? [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 13:36, 23 November 2018 (EST)

If I have to find an example from the full game demo, to prove my point further, I will! This angle change is a big deal! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 13:39, 23 November 2018 (EST)

Here's an example from the full game. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCFhaHbtKCg timestamp=4:29 I also put the reference in the wiki. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 22:43, 3 December 2018 (EST)

I didn't know how to put the specific timestamp, though. So, I explained where it was in my edit summary. There! Now, I've given evidence from the full game and now, hopefully, nobody will delete the change! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 02:05, 4 December 2018 (EST)

Vulture needs to stop with this nonsense! Ya know, I'm not even the one who put that buff there in the first place! A couple months ago, it was added by someone else! Then, I looked for video proof and found it! Then, a few weeks later, it was deleted for no reason whatsoever! So, I tried to re-add it cuz' it wasn't false information and STILL isn't! Noww, I'm being attacked for adding it ba [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 23:40, 4 December 2018 (EST)

I've been constantly fighting with him over this and I'm sick of it! Let the buff stay! It's correct information and not too specific! I tried multiple times to show proof of it through videos from the demo AND the full game! I'm not the only one who noticed this change to DAB Kick!! Others have, too and it's a big deal!!!! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 23:44, 4 December 2018 (EST)

I'm sorry. But, it just doesn't look like a 60° angle anymore. Every current video I've seen of DAB Kick being used shown it sending them straight up and into their upward hitstun animation...not their horizontal one. Plus, you can tell that no DI was applied! Look at the opponent's hitstun animation, man! Do a DAB Kick on Smash 4 Cloud and tell me which hitstun animation he goes in. The upward, or horizontal. Then, watch my video again and notice the difference in Cloud's animation and the angle of the smoke trail. They're different! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 00:02, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:Yes, they are different. But, the difference, while noticeable, is not enough to make a difference. If the point you were trying to make is that comboing is easier with it, I can still chain DAB kicks and other moves together just fine. There's also the fact that we still are not accepting pre-release info, including competitive expertise, until the game is released. I don't care how long you've been arguing with others off-wiki about this, and frankly, [[SmashWiki is not for off-wiki business|neither does the rest of the wiki]]. We have our own rules that you have been flagrantly breaking since you joined here. I very strongly suggest you walk away from this, wait until the game releases (it's only a couple days anyway), and THEN discuss it again, CALMLY. Fair enough? [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 00:08, 5 December 2018 (EST)

Yes. I suppose that's fair. Also, sorry I misread your name as Vulture. What's a Vulpine, anyway?
 [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 00:10, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulpine It's a word relating to foxes]. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 00:11, 5 December 2018 (EST)

And, if you do believe me that it changed, why don't you think that it won't benefit the move? It was pretty difficult to even get a Fair in when using it post patch. Now, it's closer to Bayonetta and alit more options should be available...even if there's increase KBG and a longer FAF. Sure, it won't be the same as pre-patch (especially if the hitbox reduction from 1.1.6 stayed) but, I think it's still better and I just want the news to be spread...somehow. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 00:16, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:Again, I don't see why it's such a big deal. First off, I'm not at all a Bayo hater as you claim. In fact, she ranks fairly high on [[User:Black Vulpine/My tier list|my list of preferred characters in Smash 4]]. But I don't see this as being a major change, especially when I don't find it difficult to chain together all sorts of moves after a DAB kick, including an up aerial. I certainly don't think it's worth all this drama. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 00:22, 5 December 2018 (EST)

When Ultimate comes out, all the official frame data will come out on other websites like Smashboards and Kurogane Hammer. If the angle really did change back to 80° or somewhere similar, I will be labbing all of the possible combos that involve it just like I did with the post patch 60° angle. I just pray that I'm right about this change. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 00:20, 5 December 2018 (EST)

And, the DAB Kick follow-ups you're referring to where only possible in pre-patch Smash 4, not post-patch. 1.1.6 nerfed the DAB Kick angle way more than it needed to be. Now, if it's angle is closer to her again, all those follow-ups you mentioned will be possible again. That's why this is a big deal! That's why I've been fighting with you and others in the community about it! What was an almost useless move for comboing in post-patch Smash 4 is now fixed and back to the way it was supposed to be! DAB Kick is useful for combos again and I couldn't be happier!!! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 03:23, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Any move with a combo angle that gets changed that bad can ruin the move's usage! Remember pre-patch Luigi's down tilt? Ya know, in the beginning of Smash 4? Yeah, that used to always be a combo move in all the Smash games! Now, what's it good for?! Practically, nothing!  [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 03:31, 7 December 2018 (EST)

If you want proof that I'm not the only one who hates his down tilt, now, here's what the 1.1.0 patch notes in YOUR Wiki say:

"Down tilt's angle altered from 74° to the Sakurai angle significantly hindering its function as a combo starter or set-up."

Now, do you understand why the new DAB Kick could be a big change? [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 03:35, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Well, guess what? I saw more proof of it from the full game and measured the angle with a protractor! Plus, I added my reference! Now, let's end this argument and let the buff stay, Vulpine! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 15:12, 8 December 2018 (EST)

I win! Now, this argument is over! Goodbye, Vulpine! [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 17:05, 8 December 2018 (EST)

Wow...looks like we were both wrong. It's a new grounded hitbox, not a late hit. Still, it's not the route I thought they'd go with buffing it. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 22:52, 24 December 2018 (EST)

== Triple Afterburner kick ==

Does anyone have a video of this occurring? Thx.
--[[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]] ([[User talk:Phoenix|talk]]) 12:20, 23 November 2018 (EST)

Supposedly according to https://twitter.com/Meshima_/status/1066719118710063104 this was removed in the final build. I'll put it in Trivia though because it seems neat. --[[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]] ([[User talk:Phoenix|talk]]) 17:02, 28 November 2018 (EST)

== Taunt speed ==

Bayonetta's (and others') taunts are so out of synch, now. Because of some being shortened/sped up, they just look broken... especially, the characters who talk during their taunts. Bayonetta's seems to be the most extreme example of this. Should we try to get Nintendo to fix it? [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 14:02, 16 December 2018 (EST)

I mean, Bayonetta's taunts end way before she's finished speaking. And, Pikachu's voice clip for his/her waving taunt just cuts off early and it's very noticeable. In my opinion, shortening the taunts were a bad idea. Even if they were going to keep it, they should speed up the voice clips or change them entirely. [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 14:05, 16 December 2018 (EST)

Is anyone else bothered by this??? [[User:Umbra King7991|Umbra King7991]] ([[User talk:Umbra King7991|talk]]) 14:06, 16 December 2018 (EST)
:Although I agree and am bothered too, this is actually against our talk page policy, [[SW:TALK]]. I'd suggest taking this to our [[SW:DISCORD|Discord server]]. [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 14:34, 16 December 2018 (EST)

== Added a section to Bayonetta's recovery frames, spreadsheet ==

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10XNTMy5xAPS2MvYeNGtD--Uq7SRyaqZVu5-uK8l53AM/edit?usp=sharing

This is the spreadsheet as I mentioned, it goes over how many frames of lag she undergoes. [[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]] ([[User talk:Phoenix|talk]]) 14:40, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
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