User talk:Semicolon/Requests for Adminship Proposal: Difference between revisions

User talk:Semicolon/Requests for Adminship Proposal (edit)

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Semicolon

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 ::*I still don't understand the bit about nominations not closing. Why would a failed RfA not close? Why would a successful RfA stay open?
 ::Also, since I don't know how harsh this sounds, please don't take this personally. I'm not directing this at anyone personally, I'm just arguing for the sake of the wiki.  --[[User:Shadowcrest|<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest</font>]] 02:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
+:::I would like to note that the most vocal critics of this policy are people from different wikias whose backgrounds with their proposed policies are not analogous to the position of this wikia. Any comparison drawn is a fallacy and ipso facto invalid. That having been said, I will address your critique.
+:::1. Because in a universe of anonymity, the only justice is equality. People don’t have to answer for their reasoning or their actions. People will think how they will. Internet arguments/discussions do not accomplish anything. The other problem is who can be the judge? At present, this process is entirely subjective. It’s just how the sysops ’’’feel’’’ about the reasoning, or ’’’feel’’’ about the number of votes. Who has the right to determine what critique is valid or what critique is invalid, or what support is useful and what is not? Even under the present system, five poorly reasoned supports outweigh a single well reasoned critique. This system does not discourage explanations. It discourages the interpretation of critiques as grounds for nomination by any sysop because that gives them too much power. Say there is a controversy over the quality of the explanation and reasoning, and the community desires a candidate that the sysops don’t like? They can merely interpret the comments and reasoning differently and refuse the conferment of powers. This system circumvents that. And don’t suggest a poll; polls are easily corrupted by proxies and sleepers. I think you underestimate the inability of the present system to accomplish anything. Practically all of your critiques can be applied to the current system! I’m not suggesting mine is a flawless system, but I’m saying it’s an advancement, and I’m willing to amend it upon good suggestion. There are several amendments I would make already, see below.
+:::2.  As far as corruption on the part of the sysop, you merely have to trust them, and if you can’t trust your sysops then you have a bigger problem then simply the nomination process. Let me make an example; C-Hawk and I are good friends. We’re rooming together at college. I would never ask him for a sponsorship even though I would enjoy the powers of a sysop because (a) that would be a conflict of interest (b) my edit count is too low ( c) I don’t have the time to spend on this wikia (d) I’m not particularly popular among users; meaning, thusly, that I am a poor candidate. I don’t think any sysop would confer on me a sponsorship because I am a poor candidate, least of all my friend because he is honest and dependable and wants to better this wiki, and he knows my nomination and promotion might be to the determent of this wikia. Say perhaps, then, that I get a sponsorship for Dtm. I am then put to the community. They want good sysops, and they will recognize that I am not a good candidate, and I will receive too many negative votes. This system has checks and balances. The sysops cannot make a candidate a sysop by subjective evaluation, but neither can the community. I think you lack trust of both the sysops and the community; your comments betray this. You mistrust the admins, that they would even allow a sub-par candidate to be sponsored, and you mistrust the community that they would let a candidate become a sysop even if they know they aren’t good. Sure, friends stick with friends, but, as I said before (and you agreed) that doesn’t disqualify their vote. They are allowed to vote because of a friend. This system actually fixes the problem. Suppose you have a self-nomination of a very popular member who has contributed little to nothing to this wiki, but everyone loves him. Their votes vouch for his character, and that he gets along with everyone. Suppose nobody comes forward with a good critique. You have a person who doesn’t understand the tools to be a sysop, voted in because of how subjective and disorganized the RfA’s are. Under this system, this candidate would never have become one. He may well in the future deserve to be a sysop, but he is not worthy.
+:::3. I resent your insinuation that we are not good judges of character, and I deeply resent your distrust of our community. This is an insult to all who are here. Perhaps we do need a bureaucrat, but it will be someone who does not distrust the community and its administrators. I fear that your policies may be influenced by this distrust as well.
+:::On to your bullets
+:::*1. You fail to realize that this is how it is in our current system, not in my proposed system. In our current system, the validity of comments does not influence the decision. It is more the presence of consensus. I’ve already explained that the right to distinguish the validity of the comments puts too much power in the hands of the sysops. It is not that I distrust them, however; it is merely that the right to nominate a sysop comes from the community, not the admins.
+:::*2. This is the referenced amendment. The specifics I would impose is a time restriction, but I am open to suggestions on the duration. Top of my head says present for a week or two.
+:::*3.
+::::*1. The idea is that if a candidate is worthy of the promotion, the candidate has already made his contributions seen/understood/noticed. There is a provision for poverty of input before the closing of the nomination, so your criticism is unjustified if it is based on, as you say, the possibility of a lack of votes or of thought put to the nomination. The matter with the a process dragging on is, as I said, a drain on resources, time, space, drama, etc. It also irritates the candidate and the community, particularly if a new sysop is desperately needed for a merge or other large project and the availability of present sysops is trifling.
+::::*2. As you have pointed out, this is not an ideal wiki, and this is not an ideal policy. Yours is not an ideal policy. I admit the system is flawed, but I am willing to trust the community and the sysops to do the best for themselves and for the wiki. This policy enables it by providing checks and balances between the two.
+::::*3. While wikipedia and this wiki I agree are not analogous, theirs is a successful system. Your proposed system with Defiant whatever is practically the same as our present one, which is unsuccessful.
+:::The bit about nominations not closing is a misunderstanding. At present, our RfA’s are closed. Nominations are not enabled, meaning that candidates are not even being considered. RfA’s should be considered at all times. A nomination, once it is placed, ought to be considered and at the outcome it is closed. But nominations, themselves as considerations of candidates, do not close.
+:::In closing, it seems we are doomed to disagree. With the understanding that we are likely not to resolve, I believe it is up to the community to voice their opinions on this matter. You may surely offer further rebuttal, but I am resigned to accept only suggestions, amendments, improvements to this policy and let its acceptance be the only matter thereafter with which I concern myself. Seeing as you are diametrically opposed to it and prefer to maintain the present policy, I do not expect you to offer amendment but rather favor its scrapping.  This is fine; if you have further amendments that do not strike at its core premises I would be pleased to entertain them. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 15:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
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