Forum:Implement a visual editor: Difference between revisions

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#People are going to complain that I sound rude and disparaging for saying this. But I am strongly of the opinion that there ''should'' be a skill floor for the editing of anything but basic text. If you want to learn to edit a wiki, you should learn to edit the wiki, not learn to edit a façade of the wiki. And if you don't want to learn, there's no learning needed to just edit the raw text of articles, which is the bulk of all content that a fresh user would be trying to change.<br/>In addition, I have absolutely zero faith in any sort of {{iw|wikipedia|WYSIWYG}} interface. I am ''constantly'' fighting "smart" editors (not here, but elsewhere) to achieve specific results that a well-meaning editor that doesn't edit source blows away by accident. A non-wiki example (which is a bit extreme but still an example) is a thing that automatically fills empty table cells with &lt;p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;/p&gt;, even if the user explicitly wants the cell to be without these things. It's not on. I do not trust visual editors to keep manually-kerned source untouched. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Spark 17:16, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
#People are going to complain that I sound rude and disparaging for saying this. But I am strongly of the opinion that there ''should'' be a skill floor for the editing of anything but basic text. If you want to learn to edit a wiki, you should learn to edit the wiki, not learn to edit a façade of the wiki. And if you don't want to learn, there's no learning needed to just edit the raw text of articles, which is the bulk of all content that a fresh user would be trying to change.<br/>In addition, I have absolutely zero faith in any sort of {{iw|wikipedia|WYSIWYG}} interface. I am ''constantly'' fighting "smart" editors (not here, but elsewhere) to achieve specific results that a well-meaning editor that doesn't edit source blows away by accident. A non-wiki example (which is a bit extreme but still an example) is a thing that automatically fills empty table cells with &lt;p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;/p&gt;, even if the user explicitly wants the cell to be without these things. It's not on. I do not trust visual editors to keep manually-kerned source untouched. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Spark 17:16, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
#:You evidently haven't read over the proposal and other comments very well, or you read them and ignored what they said. Aside from the fact that suggesting that people who aren't confident at using source editors don't have valuable information to contribute to the Wiki is quite frankly asinine, the purpose of the visual editor is not to circumvent learning to edit a Wiki, but to provide a second method of doing so. This has been explained multiple times, but you either haven't noticed any of these explanations, or are committing an ad nauseam fallacy. As for your concerns about editors inserting garbage strings into the source, from what I can tell Wikipedia doesn't seem to have this problem, and the visual editor program that would be implemented will be the same one that is used there. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 17:28, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
#:You evidently haven't read over the proposal and other comments very well, or you read them and ignored what they said. Aside from the fact that suggesting that people who aren't confident at using source editors don't have valuable information to contribute to the Wiki is quite frankly asinine, the purpose of the visual editor is not to circumvent learning to edit a Wiki, but to provide a second method of doing so. This has been explained multiple times, but you either haven't noticed any of these explanations, or are committing an ad nauseam fallacy. As for your concerns about editors inserting garbage strings into the source, from what I can tell Wikipedia doesn't seem to have this problem, and the visual editor program that would be implemented will be the same one that is used there. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 17:28, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
:::"''But I am strongly of the opinion that there should be a skill floor for the editing of anything but basic text. If you want to learn to edit a wiki, you should learn to edit the wiki, not learn to edit a façade of the wiki.''"
:::Ok, but why? If the visual editor can achieve the same results source editing otherwise can achieve (such as Wikipedia’s visual editor), why is this a problem exactly? Both methods of editing can achieve the same exact end result, but the visual editor would simply just be easier to use for inexperienced users; you're basically just cutting out the middle man of needing to learn it to begin with, which I see no problem with so long as the results are the same. And again, nothing would stop them from learning how to source edit if they so please; the only difference would be that they wouldn't of necessity need to learn how to to begin with in order to contribute, and I have no problem with saying that. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 18:09, May 1, 2020 (EDT)


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