| Latest revision |
Your text |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| '''Move''' I want to move the page to Isai . Who aggrees (if u agree put Agree in bold letters if u don't pu disagree for an extra-opinion put Strong before the word) --<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Zinnamon|Zinnamon]] ([[User talk:Zinnamon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Zinnamon|contribs]]) </small> | | '''Move''' I want to move the page to Isai . Who aggrees (if u agree put Agree in bold letters if u don't pu disagree for an extra-opinion put Strong before the word) --{{unsigned|Zinnamon}} |
|
| |
|
| :'''Agree''', actually. For consistency with other smasher articles. --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 20:28, November 20, 2007 (EST) <small>Pssst...Zinnamon...sign.your.comments!</small> | | :'''Agree''', actually. For consistency with other smasher articles. --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 20:28, November 20, 2007 (EST) <small>Pssst...Zinnamon...sign.your.comments!</small> |
| Line 26: |
Line 26: |
|
| |
|
| Is Isai going to play Melee again because he joined a tournament not too long ago and he reached 17th place. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:64.252.128.121 15:54|64.252.128.121 15:54]] ([[User talk:64.252.128.121 15:54|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/64.252.128.121 15:54|contribs]]) April 22, 2010</small> | | Is Isai going to play Melee again because he joined a tournament not too long ago and he reached 17th place. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:64.252.128.121 15:54|64.252.128.121 15:54]] ([[User talk:64.252.128.121 15:54|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/64.252.128.121 15:54|contribs]]) April 22, 2010</small> |
|
| |
| == Smash 64 characters ==
| |
|
| |
| I really have no idea which characters should be listed for the Smash 64 section of his smasherbeta. He obviously dominates the most with Pikachu/Fox, as seen in friendlies, but he just goes a different character every time in national tournaments. So should it be the characters he has a higher potential with or the characters he's been using in recent nationals? [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:26, 23 March 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| == "Sandbagging" ==
| |
|
| |
| Isai had a [http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1wqnv7/hi_my_name_is_isai_alvarado_and_my_favorite_game/ Reddit AMA]. Right there in the title it says "I have been playing SSB since 1999. My favorite characters are Link, Mario, Fox, Luigi, DK, Yoshi and Jigglypuff."
| |
|
| |
| It is incorrect to say he is sandbagging if he is using his favorite character(s).
| |
|
| |
| Otherwise everyone not playing Pikachu would be considered sandbagging. The sandbagging accusations for the past apex's should be removed.
| |
|
| |
| If playing with your favorite character but not your best character is considered sandbagging, then half of japan is sandbagging, including Jousuke.
| |
|
| |
| [[User:Herbert Von Karajan|Herbert Von Karajan]] ([[User talk:Herbert Von Karajan|talk]]) 15:29, 26 May 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :By this logic, Mew2King is not sandbagging when he plays Mewtwo and Roy, right? Because those are also some of his "favorites," yet he only uses them in matches he considers irrelevant. The problem with this argument is that, while Isai's "favorite" characters are the ones he plays with in tournaments, they are not his best characters. He has Pikachu as his best yet he refuses to play him. Thus, he is deliberately playing below his skill level. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 15:56, 26 May 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| We've gone through this before. Stop. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 18:50, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| :Has Mew2King ever played character locked as Mewtwo/Roy through an entire Apex caliber tournament? Didn't think so. In Japan, every person character locks through most of their smash career. For example, Josuke plays only Samus in tournament, even though his Kirby is considered the best in Japan, and general consensus by the Japanese players is that he would completely dominate with Kirby. This isn't deliberate sandbagging, it is part of SSB64 culture. [[User:Herbert Von Karajan|Herbert Von Karajan]] ([[User talk:Herbert Von Karajan|talk]]) 18:56, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| :I agree with Herbert here. It's simply not true that any character not named Pikachu is a "sandbagging" character. Isai practices with (mains) the characters he listed as his favorites anyway, and there's a difference between ''main''ing a character because he or she is your favorite and saying a character is your favorite, but using higher or top tier characters more regularly (which Isai doesn't do). Consider as well that SSB64 is more balanced than its successors, so low- and mid-tier mains are a lot more common than they are in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl.'' <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 19:14, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| ::I main Ness, but I play with Wolf, Ganon, and a bunch more because they're good. They're not my best characters, but you can't just hope to do good in tournaments '''with just one character'''. For example, let's say a Ness main is pitted against a Peach main. Ness is countered by Peach, so the Ness main goes over to Wolf, who soft counters her.<font face="sand">[[User:Qwerty|<font color="#04FE6D">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="#66CC2A">da</font>]] [[Special:Logout|<font color="#08CFCC">beast</font>]]</font> [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]] 21:05, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :::That's actually ''not'' how it works. The Ness main in question can't hope to just up and win simply because he picked a soft-/hard-counter, he has to also know how to use Wolf (specifically the tools Wolf has that give Peach such a hard time). If he doesn't know how to play Wolf, he's better off sticking with Ness, because he's sure to lose. A -/+2 on the matchup chart doesn't mean an instant loss/win, stop acting like that dictates which characters people use. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 21:26, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :::Also, Isai won [[Apex 2014]] with "just one character," and placed 2nd at [[Apex 2012]] and [[Apex 2013]] with "just one character." That argument holds no water. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 21:31, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| ::::Isai has a habit of using different characters at every national he goes to, but {{SSB|Pikachu}} is recogized as his best character. He stated that if he goes to [[Zenith 2014]], he would [http://smashboards.com/threads/zenith-2014-preliminary-details.350154/page-2#post-16497944 use Pikachu/Kirby to "ensure that CT has a good placing."] [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 21:34, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :::::These different characters have all been ones he's listed as his favorite, and him using Pikachu/Kirby in a future tournament (which he isn't officially going to unless someone pays for him, as he says in your link to one of his posts) doesn't mean he mains them (they can probably be listed as "Other ''Smash Bros.'' characters" on the smasherbeta). <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 21:46, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| ::::::That's silly. Pikachu, Fox, and Kirby (especially Pikachu) are closely associated with Isai as a player. When Isai hovered over Pikachu in Grand Finals of Apex, you could clearly hear the crowd getting excited; people know Isai's Pikachu. Also, I don't really feel like the "favorite characters" argument has much weight, considering he listed more than half of the cast. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 21:51, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :::::::That just leaves this question: Who decides a smasher's main? The smasher, or the people watching said smasher play? For example, if a smasher says he mains only Link but is only seen using Mario in competitive play, does that mean he mains Mario? Does "closely associated" equate main status? It's not only that he "listed more than half of the cast," but also that he actually uses (has used) the characters in his list competitively, namely Luigi (especially in doubles) and Link (again, Apex 2012). <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 22:08, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| ::::::::Isai has never explicitly referred to any of his "favorite characters" as his mains, though. He goes different characters at every national, almost never the same ones. Also, if we want to talk "favorites", he also listed Fox (which is known to be one of his best characters) and Donkey Kong, and he hasn't used either of those characters at [[GENESIS 2]], [[Apex 2012]], [[Apex 2013]], or [[Apex 2014]]. I could see where you're coming from normally, but ''Smash 64'' has relatively few tournaments in comparison to ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' (especially ''Melee'', with ''Brawl'' having declined since Apex 2014) and we barely ever hear of Isai playing at locals. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:14, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :::::::::"Favorite" implies usage, though, and like I said, we ''have'' seen Isai use some of the characters from his list in tournaments. Even if he's using different characters at every national, they're still all characters he's described as his "favorite." That's a fair point about Isai not participate in locals often, but not good enough to warrant writing off any character he uses that isn't named Pikachu as a "sandbagging character." <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 22:30, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| ::::::::::I'm not claiming that Isai not using Pikachu means he's "sandbagging" (that's not really the argument I was trying to make), but I do think that Pikachu should remain in the main slot unless future tournaments prove otherwise. We still have relatively few ''Smash 64'' nationals and the closest upcoming one is [[Zenith 2014]] and Isai did say that he would use Pikachu and Kirby if he went (and considering he said it was to "make sure CT has a good placing", I don't think listing them in "Other" does them justice). Note that he also said the same thing about using Jigglypuff at [[Apex 2014]] and kept his promise. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:42, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :::::::::::Well, at the very least, Luigi and Jigglypuff should be listed as mains, since he's used them on more than one occasion (GENESIS 2 for both, Apex 2012 doubles for Luigi, and Apex 2014 for Jigglypuff). Also, try to use the preview button more in the future. Despite making only four comments, you've made more than twice that amount in edits to this talk page (10 to be exact). <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 22:56, 18 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| For the record, I asked him directly about playing with mario and jiggs at apex and he said, "never have sandbagged in my life"; I have the facebook chat to prove it. [[User:Herbert Von Karajan|Herbert Von Karajan]] ([[User talk:Herbert Von Karajan|talk]]) 00:02, 22 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :Print screen it and then show it here. The most we could do with that info is add Mario (and Link) under "other SSB characters". DK, Fox, and Yoshi will have to be mentioned in the trivia section or the introduction paragraph, because he's only used them in friendlies as far as I know. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 00:29, 22 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
| :Isai was notorious for sandbagging in ''Melee''. If you only mean ''Smash 64'', then yeah, I can believe you. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 17:21, 22 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html Red herring? Red herring.] Please continue this discussion on the talk page for {{s|Talk|Smasher}}.<font face="sand">[[User:Qwerty|<font color="#04FE6D">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="#66CC2A">da</font>]] [[Special:Logout|<font color="#08CFCC">beast</font>]]</font> [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]] 01:18, 20 July 2014 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| == best player ever ==
| |
| Isai recently got 4th at [[Genesis 3]] even while using Pikachu/Fox! So i doubt that everyone considers him the "undisputed" best player ever. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Raize|Raize]] ([[User talk:Raize|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Raize|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small>
| |
| :In terms of right now, the best player is probably {{Sm|wario}}. However, Isai is definitely the "greatest of all time" when it comes to Smash 64. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 00:38, 22 January 2016 (EST)
| |
| ::Well he did clearly forfeit the last game against Wangera(?), so not even joking he still could've won.--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 01:10, 22 January 2016 (EST)
| |
|
| |
| Superboomfan would probably be the best player generally in my opinion. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Orange 08:27, 22 January 2016 (EST)
| |
| :wario was seeded 1st for GENESIS 3 (the largest Smash 64 tournament of all time) and won. Plus, he hasn't lost a tournament starting with Kansai 2014, while SuPeRbOoMfAn has dropped tournaments in Japan and Peru during this time period (and the Japanese tournament was won by wario). I think it's safe to say wario is the champ right now. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 08:35, 22 January 2016 (EST)
| |
|
| |
| == Playstyle ==
| |
|
| |
| If Isai is considered one of (if not the absolute) best 64 players shouldn't he have a Playstyle, and he is also the GOAT of 64 and the other GOATS (Armada, M2K, ZeRo, MkLeo, & ThundeRzReiGn) have them, shouldn't he? [[User:Royal Marth|Royal Marth]] ([[User talk:Royal Marth|talk]]) 22:27, December 11, 2021 (EST)
| |
Log in
