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| As a matter of fact, yes, we are going to tell people "Sorry, you can't talk about that here." Why is that such a bad thing? The policy has a point; SmashWiki is a ''wiki'', not any other service, and certainly not a message board. It's being used that way, presently, by a lot of people. If outside methods are not viable, there's a service offered by wikia for outside/tangential/social conversations to take place; the IRC channel. We're not even saying 'No.' We're saying 'Not here.' [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 20:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC) | | As a matter of fact, yes, we are going to tell people "Sorry, you can't talk about that here." Why is that such a bad thing? The policy has a point; SmashWiki is a ''wiki'', not any other service, and certainly not a message board. It's being used that way, presently, by a lot of people. If outside methods are not viable, there's a service offered by wikia for outside/tangential/social conversations to take place; the IRC channel. We're not even saying 'No.' We're saying 'Not here.' [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 20:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC) |
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| :A link for which is at [http://irc.wikia.com/]. Choose a user name (preferably your Wikia username) and select the option of #wikia-smashbros. You'll enter a chatroom type place. If no-one's on, feel free to stick around anyway; I know that I and Shadowcrest and a couple others pop on every once in a while. Really, we'd very much prefer you using that channel as opposed to the wiki for general chatting, especially of the type of "hey, let's brawl!". I don't know about the usability from a mobile device, but otherwise, it's quite easy to use. You are also invited to download your own [[SmashWiki:IRC|IRC]] client, join the freenode server and then manually connect to #wikia-smashbros on your own. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] · [[User:Sky2042|w]]) 21:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC) | | :A link for which is at [http://irc.wikia.com/]. Choose a user name (preferably your Wikia username) and select the option of #wikia-smashbros. You'll enter a chatroom type place. If no-one's on, feel free to stick around anyway; I know that I and Shadowcrest and a couple others pop on every once in a while. Really, we'd very much prefer you using that channel as opposed to the wiki for general chatting, especially of the type of "hey, let's brawl!". I don't know about the usability from a mobile device, but otherwise, it's quite easy to use. You are also invited to download your own [[SmashWiki:IRC|IRC]] client, join the freenode server and then manually connect to #wikia-smashbros on your own. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] · [[w:c:wow:User:Sky2042|w]]) 21:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC) |
| I'm glad everyone is catching on that making this a policy would tell people that they can't talk about whatever the hell they want on their user talk pages. That is the point. This is not a social networking site. End of story. There are hundreds of other places where you can talk about anything to your hearts content. Just don't do it here. I'm extremely tiered of seeing hundreds of meaningless edits to user talk pages flooding the recent changes. All you have to do is click the IRC link. SmashWiki is not about you. It's about the unregistered people who are looking for information on Smash Bros. They don't care about your upcoming brawl against someone else on the wiki. I don't care about your upcoming brawl. The only people who care are the people brawling. So please, go to the IRC, or AiB, or Facebook, or anywhere but here. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 20:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC) | | I'm glad everyone is catching on that making this a policy would tell people that they can't talk about whatever the hell they want on their user talk pages. That is the point. This is not a social networking site. End of story. There are hundreds of other places where you can talk about anything to your hearts content. Just don't do it here. I'm extremely tiered of seeing hundreds of meaningless edits to user talk pages flooding the recent changes. All you have to do is click the IRC link. SmashWiki is not about you. It's about the unregistered people who are looking for information on Smash Bros. They don't care about your upcoming brawl against someone else on the wiki. I don't care about your upcoming brawl. The only people who care are the people brawling. So please, go to the IRC, or AiB, or Facebook, or anywhere but here. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 20:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC) |
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| ==Small Addendum== | | ==Small Addendum== |
| One thing I think needs to be specifically mentioned on this page is that new talk page sections should always start with a Level 2 headline, even if the new section is also the creation of a new talk page. Too often, users make new talk pages without putting a header above their point of discussion, and then every subsequent section begins with a header, making the discussion at the top that lacks a header look out of place and unprofessional. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 18:41, 14 August 2012 (EDT) | | One thing I think needs to be specifically mentioned on this page is that new talk page sections should always start with a Level 2 headline, even if the new section is also the creation of a new talk page. Too often, users make new talk pages without putting a header above their point of discussion, and then every subsequent section begins with a header, making the discussion at the top that lacks a header look out of place and unprofessional. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 18:41, 14 August 2012 (EDT) |
| :Will be added. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chronicler 19:00, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
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| == Profanity/Rudeness ==
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| I think that it should be put onto this policy page as a guideline under the list of rules for editing. Because being <s>profane</s> rude really doesn't add anything constructive to a discussion, and just causes problems to escalate. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 16:11, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
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| :Answer: No. Reason: [[SmashWiki:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive_2#Policy|This]]. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=navy>D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o<font color=purple>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span>[[Image:DP99Majora.png]] 18:10, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
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| ::I'm not talking about swearing and cursing, just being rude. I've cleared it up. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 18:18, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
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| :::[[SW:NPA]] covers what should be covered in that case. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=navy>D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o<font color=purple>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span>[[Image:DP99Majora.png]] 18:23, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
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| ::::What about when someone is being rude, but doesn't PA? [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 18:27, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
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| :::::There's no reason to have a policy against "being rude". It's subjective as to what that even means, in the first place and isn't really a ban-worthy offense. Again, [[SW:NPA]] sufficiently covers what needs to be covered. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 15:50, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| ::::::Being rude means being disruptive, impolite, and/or uncivilized. That can certainly be a ban-worthy offense if someone is persistently being rude on talk pages, and just because something isn't ban-worthy doesn't mean it can't go on a policy page. It's also possible to be rude without issuing PAs as I said before. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 17:34, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| :::::::There shouldn't be a policy against it, though. It's not necessary. We have a policy against being disruptive already, and rudeness without being disruptive, while I don't necessarily endorse it (though I'd say I'm pretty damn uncivilized), it isn't something that needs to go on a policy page. This is the internet, and a certain deal of acceptance goes along with that, including accepting that people aren't always going to be 100% polite to you, and if you can't hang with that, you shouldn't be on the internet. It's not going to be all rainbows and puppies where everyone gets along even if we instate this "rule". It's pointless. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 17:39, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| ::::::::Of course we won't be able to get rid of all disruptiveness and uncivilized behavior. But we can still discourage it to prevent it from happening as much as possible, because rudeness usually leads to something worse such as a personal attack. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 18:50, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| :If they Personally Attack, then we can discipline them for that. Writing a rule about it won't really discourage it, and i'm sure it won't really be enforced. This doesn't really solve any problem. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 18:53, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| Frankly I think [[wikipedia:WP:PBAGDSWCBY|WP:PBAGDSWCBY]] applies here. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Steppin' 18:56, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| Overall I'd like to add a note saying something along the lines of "always keep in mind that there is a living, breathing human behind the keyboard of every user you reply to, and consider your posts appropriately." [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:Anon.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 21:19, 29 July 2013 (EDT)
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| == One Example==
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| :Here's one example of inappropriate talk page usage:
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| "I dreamed about you last night."
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| ([[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 22:36, 30 November 2014 (EST))
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| :Please don't make unnecessary comments like this, thank you. <font face="sand">''[[User:Qwerty|<font color="black">Qw</font><font color="003F3F">er</font><font color="005F5F">ty</font>]] ''[[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="005F6F">(t</font><font color="003C6F">al</font><font color="000F7F">k)</font>]]</font> 22:55, 30 November 2014 (EST)
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| ==The big template==
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| Is adding the big template disruptive? [[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 23:05, 30 January 2015 (EST)
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| == Generic section headers ==
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| These are blatantly inconvenient for two main reasons:
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| *It makes navigating talk pages harder since section links from Recent changes or manual usage of # won't always link to the intended sections.
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| *It obscures the content of a new talk page section by not clearly indicating the subject. Which do you think is more useful, a header that says "Hey" or a header that says "Could you help with _____"?
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| Forgive me if I was a bit heavy-handed in adding it to the policy page, but I don't see what could possibly be controversial about it. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:53, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| :For me, it's mostly because "Hi!" is my most used section header. I find it polite and convenient (usually I use it only when reminding people of policy) <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 17:56, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| :Also, I don't relish the idea of telling people off for something so minor. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 18:00, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| ::It's not intended as a "literally never do this ever or you're in trouble" as much as a "please don't do this in the interest of clarity and ease of navigation". [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:01, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| :::I have readded your bit, modified in a way that better conveys that tone. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 18:09, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| ::::Yeah, that's a fair compromise. Again, sorry if I was a little too vehement or absolute in my wording. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:36, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| For me, what I mostly do is say "Ey" or "Yo" as the header and then have what I need to ask as the body. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 18:24, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| Should we maybe make the reason you shouldn't clearer? The problem isn't misinterpretation - the message is literally less than an inch below the header if you don't know what the message is about. The problem is navigation, as going to [[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki#Question]] could take you to any of thirty different headers. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 20:33, 15 January 2016 (EST)
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| == Question ==
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| How does one change their signature? [[User:Alex Parpotta|Alex Parpotta]] ([[User talk:Alex Parpotta|talk]]) 13:58, 7 July 2017 (EDT)
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| :[[Special:Preferences]]. You can change your signature from there.
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| :--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>, 14:01, 7 July 2017 (EDT)
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| ::Thanks. [[User:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex Parpotta'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: red;">'''flying lobster!'''</span>]] 14:14, 7 July 2017 (EDT)
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| == Proposed revision ==
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| I would like to suggest the following sentence be revised:
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| <ul><li> Old: Adding a signature if you forgot to sign. However, this must be done immediately, and before another user adds the unsigned template to your unsigned comment. Removing an unsigned template and adding your signature in its place will not be allowed. </li>
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| <li> New: Adding a signature if you forgot to sign. This should be done in a reasonable time frame, and without disrupting a conversation. </li></ul>
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| I think that this deserves to be changed in light of situations like [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Clone&action=history this] today with 67.171.49.66/C0liosi and Black Vulpine-- while BV was *technically* correct in undoing his signing, he logged in to sign his own comment within 10 minutes (and only a whole 3 minutes after the unsigned tag was added for him, which even then only happened not because he didn't sign, but because he signed "improperly" with his username when he wasn't logged in), and I don't see how that could possibly be considered problematic behaviour except under the technical text of this policy. I think we as a community should be able to exercise better discretion than this, and in particular when up for debate I absolutely expect administrators to be able to exercise discretion over this. – [[User:Emmett|<span style="color:#000000">Emmett</span>]] 06:23, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
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| :'''Support''': I've personally never really understood why the rule is like that to begin with. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 07:09, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
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| :'''Support''', way I see it, the unsigned template is for documenting the poster of unsigned comments on closed discussions. If the discussion is still open, all slapping an unsigned template there and forbidding the addition of a proper signature does is say "ha ha, you forgot your sig". Where possible, proper signatures should always be favoured over unsigned templates. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 07:35, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
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| :I must admit, I had actually considered leaving it as an unsigned, but changing the IP to the name. I ultimately decided against doing this because while I recognised the user to be registered, it was one that had zero history (and was not created today), and did not think it would matter. I know that seems kinda weak, but ultimately, I felt it was best to simply follow protocol. If that means I'm still getting frowned upon for my actions, then I will simply '''Support''' this proposal and call it a day. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 08:07, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
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| ::I'm not blaming you for following the rule, I just think the rule is bad. – [[User:Emmett|<span style="color:#000000">Emmett</span>]] 08:10, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
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| == Question about proper talk page usage ==
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| Is it acceptable to thank someone for rewording an edit that you made because you worded it in an awkward way and they fixed it? I really want to show gratitude in some way. --[[User:Apocalypso|Apocalypso]] ([[User talk:Apocalypso|talk]]) 14:18, March 6, 2020 (EST)
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| == Is the 32KB standard before requiring archiving still relevant? ==
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| The standard on avoiding having talk pages go beyond 32KB was codified back in the 2000s, when internet connections were generally much worse, and computers and other internet-browsing devices were far far weaker, so I'm wondering is there still possibly anyone out there who would possibly have trouble loading and using talk pages beyond that size? Is it really the standard that should still be enforced? I can't say I'm knowledgeable enough about the issue to be sure, but 32KB always felt overly restrictive and possibly based on antiquated standards even over a decade ago when I first became active here. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:12, February 28, 2021 (EST)
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| After Toomai pointed out on discord that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Archiving Wikipedia now uses a 75KB standard for archiving], I want to officially '''propose''' we update our archiving standard to 75KB too, as it does seem more reasonable and much less restrictive (e.g. back in the prime of my activity, I had to archive my talk page about every month or two, which just felt excessive, and any lengthy conversation with a couple WoTs could use up much of it). If you are a current active user who does actually have an inability to properly load or edit pages larger than 32KB, please speak up now. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:22, March 2, 2021 (EST)
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| I definitely '''support''' increasing the recommended size from 32KB. After all, this very talk page is larger than that, and isn't too bloated just yet. However, I don't think adopting Wikipedia's 75KB standard is necessarily the best option for this Wiki. Wikipedia talk pages can get extremely bloated as is, and individual sections on said talk pages tend to be much longer. Thus, if we used the same standard, the number of sections on a typical talk page on the verge of being archived would be quite a bit higher here, making the talk pages even more bloated. It's also worth noting that a lot of talk page discussions on Wikipedia are archived in chunks, meaning once a specific discussion on the talk page is clearly closed, just that discussion's section is archived. This practice also helps to cut down on bloat on the Wikipedia talk pages, but here, we generally archive talk pages in their entirety, once the talk page becomes too large. Thus, our talk pages will likely bloat even more. Combine these points with our lower activity, making cutting down on the frequency of archiving less pressing an issue, and I think it's clear that Wikipedia's standard works better on Wikipedia than it would work here. May I suggest a lower value for the standard, like 50KB for instance? ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 18:37, March 2, 2021 (EST)
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