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| :Maybe what I had in mind before writing this is better off not being said. '''[[User:Cafinator|<span style="color:Darkorange"><small><small>CAFINATOR</small></small></span>]]''' [[User talk:Cafinator|<span style="color:brown"><small><sup>''Indeed''</sup></small></span>]] 22:56, 28 October 2008 (UTC) | | :Maybe what I had in mind before writing this is better off not being said. '''[[User:Cafinator|<span style="color:Darkorange"><small><small>CAFINATOR</small></small></span>]]''' [[User talk:Cafinator|<span style="color:brown"><small><sup>''Indeed''</sup></small></span>]] 22:56, 28 October 2008 (UTC) |
| == hmm == | | == hmm == |
| If this wiki isn't official... then is there a smash-bros related wiki that is official?[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">'''Lucas-IV- ''']]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth| <span style="color:yellow">'''Paper '''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Lucasthefourth|'''Tosser''']][[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 09:39, 9 June 2011 (EDT) | | If this wiki isn't official... then is there a smash-bros related wiki that is official?[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">'''Lucas-IV- ''']]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth| <span style="color:yellow">'''Paper '''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Lucasthefourth|'''Tosser''']][[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 09:39, 9 June 2011 (EDT) |
| :No.--<span style="font-family:Arial">[[User:Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:gray">Wolf</span>]] [[User talk:Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:blue">rulez!</span>]] </span>[[File:StarFoxSymbol.svg|19px]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:orange">Star</span>]]''' '''[[Special:Editcount/Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:red">Fox</span>]]''' 09:43, 9 June 2011 (EDT) | | :No.--<span style="font-family:Arial">[[User:Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:gray">Wolf</span>]] [[User talk:Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:blue">rulez!</span>]] </span>[[File:StarFoxSymbol.svg|19px]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:orange">Star</span>]]''' '''[[Special:Editcount/Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:red">Fox</span>]]''' 09:43, 9 June 2011 (EDT) |
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| :[[Forum:General_proposals#How_to_name_Lucario_and_Charizard.27s_Smash_4_final_smash_articles|I actually attempted to start a discussion for sorting out the Mega Evolution articles on general proposals]], but there was virtually no response to that... ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 14:18, October 29, 2020 (EDT) | | :[[Forum:General_proposals#How_to_name_Lucario_and_Charizard.27s_Smash_4_final_smash_articles|I actually attempted to start a discussion for sorting out the Mega Evolution articles on general proposals]], but there was virtually no response to that... ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 14:18, October 29, 2020 (EDT) |
| ::I think the confusion for "skill preview" lies in [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo_switch/supersmashbrosultimate/sheet/111381/ The Spriters Resource], since they call it that; I agree that it shouldn't really be a wiki-wide term, though I'm not against it being used in, say, [[: File:Steve SSBU Skill Preview Neutral Special.png|filenames]]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 14:41, October 29, 2020 (EDT) | | ::I think the confusion for "skill preview" lies in [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo_switch/supersmashbrosultimate/sheet/111381/ The Spriters Resource], since they call it that; I agree that it shouldn't really be a wiki-wide term, though I'm not against it being used in, say, [[: File:Steve SSBU Skill Preview Neutral Special.png|filenames]]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 14:41, October 29, 2020 (EDT) |
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| Bumping this. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange;">'''the Thankful Rurouni'''</span>]] 10:54, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :I '''wholeheartedly agree''' to this. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 14:55, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| ::I realize that this isn't what this proposal is necessarily for, but I 100% oppose the mega evolution merge...and by extension this proposal I guess. The names and scope of articles is to be settled on a case by case basis, there is no reason to change that. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 15:25, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :::Disregarding the Mega Evolution part (whether or not those can be merged or kept separate can be figured out outside of this discussion), if we're going with the mentality of "moves shouldn't be named unless they have a name", then I fail to see how that doesn't apply to this. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange;">'''the Thankful Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:15, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| ::::How about this compromise: this proposal is made official to prevent Ganon and Luigi's final smashes from being renamed, but the Mega Evolution pages are made an exception due to their vastly different abilities and due to said characters being from the same series? [[Special:Contributions/72.219.72.215|72.219.72.215]] 16:17, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :::::The two could also be renamed to "Mega Evolution (Lucario)" and "Mega Evolution (Charizard)", if separation wanted to truly be kept while still matching the official names, but, given how we already have [[Critical Hit|Final]] [[Zero Laser|Smashes]] that share a name with different mechanics on one page already, I don't see why they should necessarily be separated, but I'm not going to push for it if no one else wants it. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange;">'''the Thankful Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:45, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| ::::::[[Forum:Cloned final smash pages|We already have a proposal for clone final smash pages like Critical Hit]]. To add on my comment, while I did already state it on the General Proposals, I would just stick with the official names for the mega evolution forms of Lucario and Charizard. [[User:S3AHAWK|<span style="font-family: Arial;color: maroon; 0px">S3AHAWK</span>]] [[User talk:S3AHAWK|''<span style=" font-family: Comic Sans MS;color:#FF4500;">The Thankful One</span>'']][[File:S3AHAWK_Signature_icon_1.png|20px]] 17:10, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| I think there's some conflation of points here.
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| #The purpose of using article titles like "New Character's Final Smash" is because, in most cases, we have literally zero to work with. The first move we had to do this for was Peach Blossom, and we had literally no choice but to use an "empty" title because there was no precedent in the Mario series to suggest a name from. Compare something like The Mighty Jinjonator, for which it was extremely easy to guess the name for, and if we didn't have the rule against it, I think we would have used it initially.
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| #The precedent of Peach Blossom is the only reason we do empty titles for special moves at all, even in the aforementioned obvious cases. I do however think it's a better habit than inventing names from nothing, because we don't want to be a source of potentially-later-revealed-as-misinformation.
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| #I do not think there is anything inherently wrong with the idea of having a more "general" name for moves like the Poltergust or Ganon (for which there are minimal if any practical differences, only visual ones). In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the Hero's Bow page to "Bow (Link)", given how it has a different name in almost every game but behaves pretty much the same in all of them.
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| #You mentioned how Zero Laser shares a page with Zero Laser, and I think that needs to stop because they're too different mechanically. Roy's is fine, it's not different enough (in the sense it could be a custom move in SSB4).
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| Also, the explicit note about players' guides character move names was put in on a single admin's opinion many years ago despite the protests of many other users including myself, and has over the years been degraded by so much proof to the contrary that it really needs to go. (The part about inventing names from nothing can obviously stay.)
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| So I suppose in general, '''I oppose making an exception for this'''. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quintonic 17:25, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :#Is it not directly against [[SW:SPEC|the fact that SmashWiki isn't speculative]] to put a page under a temporary name before confirmation? The only exceptions to this that I can immediately think of off the top of my head are [[Yggdrasil's Altar]] and [[Spiral Mountain]], both of which were named such to start with because of their Japanese names, which lined up with the English names in the respective games' translations, but even those specifically had [[Template:Japanese name|a thing]] saying the name was based on the Japanese name, not an official one.
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| :#I agree, especially since we're, essentially, the primary Smash Bros. wiki.
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| :#I can see a case for a merging of all the "Bow" pages to be made, especially given how (as you mentioned) each of them is essentially the same, but I think that, given that most new people would come on here to look for the most recent Smash Bros. game's information, they'd know it under that name instead of the old one—older fans will know the older names, sure, but if it all directs to the same place, then it shouldn't really matter.
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| :#I would hardly put the two Critical Hits' differences on the same level as a custom move, given the fact that it's a completely different animation—something that can also be said for the two Zero Lasers. To put Roy's Critical Hit on the same level as a custom move would be putting it on the same level as Young Link's Fire Arrows, the Wolf Flash, and PK Freeze, which are, in essence, the same move as their original counterparts, but ever so slightly different, while Roy's Critical Hit has a completely different animation, despite being under the same name; it does, however, achieve the same purpose as the other one (even if severely underpowered), just like the Zero Laser.
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| :I remember you saying that you've been pushing for the guidebook move names to be used, which, I would like to clarify, is not the point of this proposal (and is actually something I support). And I agree, the "inventing names from nothing" should stay. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange;">'''the Thankful Rurouni'''</span>]] 19:24, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| ::The Peach Blossom case happened in 2007, before SW:NOT existed. So the fact that we currently have a policy that we can't use logical/speculatory names may just be another result of that precedent.
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| ::If redirecting to the newest page doesn't matter, then surely redirecting to the general-est page doesn't matter either. In fact I would argue general-est is better in that sense because it's better future-proofed. (Not by much, since we can't predict when a well-established name suddenly changes, but it's something.)
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| ::[[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Yellow 19:37, November 6, 2020 (EST)
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| There appears to be some misinformation about the Mega Evolution proposal, so I'd like to clarify that. [[Forum:general proposals#How_to_name_Lucario_and_Charizard.27s_Smash_4_final_smash_articles|The current proposal]] is not a merge proposal, but a move proposal, which is why the respective articles have the move template on them. The articles would remain separate, but be named "Mega Evolution (Lucario)" and "Mega Evolution (Charizard)", as they appear on their respective trophies. The reason for this is because we don't name final smash articles simply after the characters that appear in them, but rather by what the final smash itself is called. ''[[User:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex the weeb|<span style="color: red;">'''Weeb'''</span>]]'' 03:39, November 7, 2020 (EST)
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| :I might've been the one who supported renaming the mega evolution pages, and I still support renaming them, so thanks for pointing that out. I only suggested making them an exception to the official name rule because there was opposition towards the idea; however, as the main oppositions believed they were being merged and not renamed, as well as looking at the general proposal that has 3 support votes so far, yes, I believe that they should be renamed. About Zero Laser and Critical Hit, those are significantly different from the differing characters (Roy's I believe is actually based on one of his unique attack animations, while Marth's is just a generic attack used by any swordfighter in his game, so I'm not understanding the stigma that it could be a custom special). They should be split. [[Special:Contributions/72.219.72.215|72.219.72.215]] 15:39, November 16, 2020 (EST)
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| ::I would argue that, while SmashWiki may not be official, putting the use of official terminology first and foremost if possible is conducive to its agenda on the whole. Here's the way I look at official vs. unofficial:
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| ::SmashWiki is, above all, supposed to be ''helpful'' and ''informative''. ''Informing'' curious fans about a game should, first and foremost, entail telling them about ''what the game is'', and not how other fans ''interpret what it is''. If there's an official term for an element of interest, whether it be a move, game, character, etc., that official term should be the page name, with most certainly fewer exceptions than there are at present. If there's a more commonly used fan name, that's why we have ''redirects'' and ''opening paragraphs'' informing the curious fan of the fact that the term they were looking for is merely a fan-made term; the page name and display title should both still use the official title. But, in situations like that of [[rage]], where there is absolutely no official term and no-one uses anything different, it is perfectly acceptable to use the universal fan terminology, so long as it's made clear that it's fan terminology, of course. And finally, in instances where the official title is rarely used or obscure, a redirect or disambiguation template/page is in order. In a perfect world, once they step into SmashWiki, a curious fan doesn't even consider for a second that the fan-made term they searched for is official, or vice-versa.
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| ::I've been waiting L.O.G. knows how long for an opportunity to post that speech, and none of my peers have found any logical fallacies with it. The Wiki doesn't always have to be official. But in the same way Wikipedia only gets its info from reliable sources, the most help we can do is to point our readers to where the games came from. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="font-family: Lithos Pro"><span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span><span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span></span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 16:29, November 16, 2020 (EST)
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| :::Uh, and for names that are only official in other languages, the English fan term is also acceptable, as long as the complication is, again, made completely clear. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="font-family: Lithos Pro"><span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span><span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span></span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 16:34, November 16, 2020 (EST)
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| ==Unofficial Lingo==
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| This policy has ruled that official terms should be used unless a fan-made term has clearly overtaken it in popularity. There is no clearly defined protocol for a fan-made term that has significant traction, but not quite enough to overtake the official term. There is seemingly an unwritten rule that these terms are placed next to the official term at the start of an article in parentheses, bolded, and properly defined if there is a history behind the term. An example are the special move pages e.g. Neutral Special also has Neutral B. I propose adding an addendum that explains using unofficial lingo within the confines of the appropriate articles is acceptable, and should be placed in parentheses and bolded, defining them if necessary.[[User:The Other Jared|The Other Jared]] ([[User talk:The Other Jared|talk]]) 00:01, December 29, 2023 (EST)
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