Editing SmashWiki talk:Adoption

==The Edits Section:==
Use this section for suggesting ways to revise this proposal...

==The +/- Section:==
Use this section to post whether you support or oppose this proposal, and why...

*'''Oppose''' Users shouldn't need to apply for a way to get help; they should just be able to ask for help such as a simple question and anyone can help them. If they were completely lost they could say so and the community would help guide them without these unnecessary steps. This would also seem very complicated for a newbie who doesn't know anything about the wiki. The limitations on who can welcome users are very arbitrary; anyone who applies and shows the skill should be able to do it, not just sysops and two rollbackers. We also have the welcome template and [[SW:FIRST|Read this first]]. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 19:26, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

*'''Oppose''' Smash, lemme educate you on a little something called free will. This is practically demanding that newbies seek out the help of an admin. It perpetuates the stereotypes that admins are kings (most people wouldn't read the NPA clause proving otherwise) and new users are in-confident (some new editors might, you know, actually ''know'' the workings of a wiki). [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 20:14, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

*'''Oppose'''. It's not that hard to figure this place out, and RTFM already summarizes most of what anyone needs to know. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:16, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

*'''Oppose'''. What if the "new" user made useful contributions as an IP? They do not need to be re-guided when they decided to make an account. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 20:29, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

*'''Oppose'''. Per all, this policy would be redundant because of [[SW:RTFM]] and some new users may not need help at all. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">Do</font>]][[User talk:Dots|<font color="blue">t</font><font color="purple">s</font>]] [[File:MewtwoMS.png]] The Arwing 21:02, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

*'''What the...?!''' If a newbie can't figure out how to do anything, how can they figure out how to do this? What problem does this solve? How does restricting who can help someone help the wiki? Why would any admin want to do this? Does any other wiki of similar size have anything resembling this?<br/>I ain't havin' this. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chilled 21:14, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

::Well, I'm glad I'm getting all this feedback, so first of all, thanks! Secondly, yes Toomai, Wikipedia also has an adoption policy, but I didn't want this to look like plagiarism, so I used my own adoption idea, which only slightly mimics it. Third, you're right, Zeldastarfoxfan, I did not think of that. Fourth, Ac2k, I didn't say a single thing about absolutely having to do this. I just thought I could propose a way to help newcomers learn about the wiki in a less strict, and more organized way. "Some users may not need help at all." Well duh; This policy is meant for those who aren't familiar so they can ease into the Wiki. "This is practically demanding that newbies seek the help of an admin." As I stated above, this policy is intended for those who actually need help, and they really think they need serious help. I want that help to come to them, but just in this very organized way. "What problem does this solve?" It is supposed to help the newcomers (as heavily mentioned on the actual proposal page) so they'll become good users through help and support. "How does restricting who can help someone help the wiki?" It would only be organized in terms of "adopted users", meaning that these groups won't help anything outside of this, and that's not my concern in this proposal; it wouldn't really help. "Why would any admin want to do this?" Don't you admins WANT to see good users here? Well why not contribute to that cause by using the damn policy, getting your groups together, and helping the new users. "This would seem very complicated..." Well maybe so, but it's still organized, and that's how wikis should be: Organized. ...and I don't think I said ANYTHING about welcoming users; just about helping them, and nothing more.

::But to simplify this, allow me to illustrate my point with an example:

::So let's pretend I'm a newbie here! So I create my account, I'm not even autoconfirmed, and I'm already off to a poor start. So maybe I decide to read over the rules, to try and understand the wiki better. I stumble across [[SmashWiki:Adoption Policy|SW:ADOP]], "Ooh, perfect! Maybe this will help me!" I make an RfU, and wait for support. It's successful! I get a message saying I'm assigned to Omega Tyrant. I'm in his group, and he and his two rollbackers will help me (and some other new people) become a good user. I'll keep learning and getting better, and then once OT says I'm a sufficient SmashWikidian, then I'm "un-adopted", and I'm off on my own. 

::See my logic now?? I won't get to your replies for a while, 'cuz I'm about to go to bed, and I have school tomorrow. '''[[User:SmashBall104|SmashBall104;]]''' [[User Talk:SmashBall104|Arrested for]] [[Special:Contributions/SmashBall104|drunk Landmastering.]] 32:39, 22 September, 2013 (EDT)

:::Wait! What the fuck!? We're not done with this yet! Why is the failed template already there!? Only a few users responded, and I want more feedback! '''[[User:SmashBall104|SmashBall104;]]''' [[User Talk:SmashBall104|Arrested for]] [[Special:Contributions/SmashBall104|drunk Landmastering.]] 32:45, 22 September, 2013 (EDT)

::::This kind of thing works for Wikipedia because they're so large that individual users are lost in the mess, and attaching new people to old people is kind of the only way to notice them. SmashWiki is still small enough that a single user can keep track of every edit, so new users are easily detected and directed when necessary. Should a new user be looking for help, we have a reasonably stable core of active, skilled users that can usually help without requiring the assistance of a specific admin, and between SW:FIRST, the staff listing on SW:ADMIN, and the WhosOnline of RecentChanges, it's not hard to find someone. Simply put, the policy in a vacuum is not bad, but it does not fit the current state of the wiki. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Yellow 23:50, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

Plus what everyone else already said, unnecessary bureaucracy is really bad, and just makes everything more difficult, complicated, and slower. A better, much faster and much simpler idea for struggling new users? Go to an active admin (or other prominent user) and post on their talk page "Hey, I need some help with X, blah blah blah", and there, they get the help they need near immediately or are directed to another user who can help them. No need at all to make a policy and whole request procedure for it. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 07:08, 23 September 2013 (EDT)

== Re-proposing: ==

Okay, so it's been a while, but let me re-explain the purpose of these guidelines I proposed. (That's right, I said "guidelines". This isn't supposed to be a policy, but merely an option that's there if the new user really thinks that they're in need of assistance; if they were good as an IP, or something like that, then they're good). You see, if we want this Wiki to be booming, then we should make the place so users will have some incentive to come back. That's where THIS comes in! If we can guide new users into SmashWiki by following this page, then they'll pretty much know how we do things here by the time their adoption is up, and since they'll be experienced and beaming with confidence and interest in the Wiki, then they'll be good users, which we'll need if we want to be a good encyclopedia. And another thing, while easing newbies into the community is this guideline's main purpose, it also helps benefit the Wiki as a whole, (though it may not seem like it at first glance). Sure, it mainly talks about benefitting the users who are new here, but if you take a look at the big picture, it also helps organize the place. Simply put, once we decide who's running our groups of newbies, then we know which sysops and rollbackers are free to help manage the REST of the site. 

But don't think I'm being ignorant. I am taking your replies into account. I am fully aware of your post, OT. Yes, bureaucracy isn't always a good thing, but it still helps organize us, which is one of the main things that this guideline addresses. And also, sure you can just ask someone for help, but what if you ask the wrong person? With THIS installed, a user can get tons of help by simply contributing as if they're not under adoption, and they have three people giving it to them too! And sure, they can still ask clarifying questions despite the sheer amount of assistance, but that should be encouraged. It shows that they're actually showing interest in the Wiki, and if they're showing interest, then that likely means that they'll stay, and help this Wiki grow. I mean, think about it. Automatically receiving help just by editing normally? Fucking awesome! And for everyone who mentioned SW:RTFM, sometimes, reading over a page won't help completely. Sometimes, you need direct help to understand things. No policy on this Wiki can be written TOTALLY clearly. I'm trying to help newbies understand the Wiki as completely as possible, and should they follow these procedures, they can get that understanding, and become good users. And as for that latest post by Toomai...well frankly I can't argue about Wikipedia's size, but I can say this: if we ease new users into the Wiki, and make them want to stay, then we can potentially get that large, and that is also how the Wiki as a whole will benefit from these procedures.

So, yeah. That's about it...for now. '''[[User:SmashBall104|SmashBall104:]]''' [[User Talk:SmashBall104|Super Effective?]] [[Special:Contributions/SmashBall104|My ass!]] 19:56, 18 November 2013 (EST)
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	So, yeah. That's about it...for now. '''[[User:SmashBall104\|SmashBall104:]]''' [[User Talk:SmashBall104\|Super Effective?]] [[Special:Contributions/SmashBall104\|My ass!]] 19:56, 18 November 2013 (EST)		So, yeah. That's about it...for now. '''[[User:SmashBall104\|SmashBall104:]]''' [[User Talk:SmashBall104\|Super Effective?]] [[Special:Contributions/SmashBall104\|My ass!]] 19:56, 18 November 2013 (EST)
	:We're in a community that's basically the size of two high school classrooms. New users can either ask for help or we can go up to help them directly. No system is needed to help until the community becomes the size of a whole entire high school. No specialized request for help is needed when active, experienced users currently outnumber new users by at least 3:1. The Wiki is not large enough to actually justify having a specified system to help people. Users can easily help other users just by keeping an eye on them. This Wiki is not a metropolis; it is the size of two class rooms. The community does not and probably won't have to be "booming" when the release of SSB4 isn't even within the next few months. Repeating things 10 times helps people learn it. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1\|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1\|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology\|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png\|19px]] 20:09, 18 November 2013 (EST)
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