Editing Marth (SSBU)

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Marth's weak [[throws]] tie into his polarized KO power. Except for up throw, they have low knockback scaling, preventing them from KOing at realistic percents, while up throw can only KO starting at 170% when Marth has no [[rage]]. His other throws are somewhat lackluster; aside from having a fairly fast [[pummel]], Marth's throws deal low damage and have high base knockback, making them poor for combos and damage-racking outside of [[down throw]] leading into an aerial until high percents. However, it should be noted that the high base knockback of his throws allow Marth to take advantage of his good [[edgeguarding]] capability, especially at the [[edge]].
Marth's weak [[throws]] tie into his polarized KO power. Except for up throw, they have low knockback scaling, preventing them from KOing at realistic percents, while up throw can only KO starting at 170% when Marth has no [[rage]]. His other throws are somewhat lackluster; aside from having a fairly fast [[pummel]], Marth's throws deal low damage and have high base knockback, making them poor for combos and damage-racking outside of [[down throw]] leading into an aerial until high percents. However, it should be noted that the high base knockback of his throws allow Marth to take advantage of his good [[edgeguarding]] capability, especially at the [[edge]].


Another notable weakness is Marth's difficulty in escaping from [[juggle]]s, despite being good at juggling opponents himself; his air speed is average at best, his gravity is fairly low, his weight is slightly below-average and his tall hurtbox provides an easy target. Dolphin Slash is his only reliable combo breaker, but as it leaves him helpless, it can inadvertently put him in an even worse position. Also, while Counter can be used defensively, it leaves Marth extremely vulnerable to punishment should it whiff. Marth also has little defense against juggling, as his aerials are ineffective at relieving pressure; though his attacks have quick startup and decent range, many of them come with high ending lag, their large sourspots are fairly weak compared to most other aerials, and they also suffer from short hitbox durations. Additionally, being a solely sword-based character, Marth's [[neutral game]] suffers from his complete lack of a projectile, and he can sometimes struggle against projectile-heavy characters and playstyles; however, his combination of high mobility, good range and decent frame data helps to alleviate this issue.
Anothet notable weakness is Marth's difficulty in escaping from [[juggle]]s, despite being good at juggling opponents himself; his air speed is average at best, his gravity is fairly low, his weight is slightly below-average and his tall hurtbox provides an easy target. Dolphin Slash is his only reliable combo breaker, but as it leaves him helpless, it can inadvertently put him in an even worse position. Also, while Counter can be used defensively, it leaves Marth extremely vulnerable to punishment should it whiff. Marth also has little defense against juggling, as his aerials are ineffective at relieving pressure; though his attacks have quick startup and decent range, many of them come with high ending lag, their large sourspots are fairly weak compared to most other aerials, and they also suffer from short hitbox durations. Additionally, being a solely sword-based character, Marth's [[neutral game]] suffers from his complete lack of a projectile, and he can sometimes struggle against projectile-heavy characters and playstyles; however, his combination of high mobility, good range and decent frame data helps to alleviate this issue.


Marth himself is somewhat vulnerable to edgeguarding, though he has options for mix-ups with his recovery. Dolphin Slash is his only reliable vertical recovery option, and while it is still a threat to edgeguarders due to its speed, frame 1 intangibility and high stage spike ability, its path is linear and its distance fixed, making it fairly predictable. Additionally, since this move grants little horizontal distance, Marth is vulnerable to semi-spikes. While Shield Breaker can aid his horizontal recovery, it covers little distance without charging and does not halt his existing vertical momentum either. Marth is also heavily reliant on his double jump and directional air dodge for mix-ups in his recovery, and is in significant danger if offstage without either of them.
Marth himself is somewhat vulnerable to edgeguarding, though he has options for mix-ups with his recovery. Dolphin Slash is his only reliable vertical recovery option, and while it is still a threat to edgeguarders due to its speed, frame 1 intangibility and high stage spike ability, its path is linear and its distance fixed, making it fairly predictable. Additionally, since this move grants little horizontal distance, Marth is vulnerable to semi-spikes. While Shield Breaker can aid his horizontal recovery, it covers little distance without charging and does not halt his existing vertical momentum either. Marth is also heavily reliant on his double jump and directional air dodge for mix-ups in his recovery, and is in significant danger if offstage without either of them.
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When it comes to direct changes, [[Dancing Blade]] has been sped up greatly, making its hits link into each other much more consistently, and the tippered fourth forward hit has significantly higher knockback, being able to KO at much lower percentages than before. The ability to angle [[Shield Breaker]] vertically increases the move's coverage, to the point the down angled version will always tipper in a successful [[edge#2 frame punish|2 frame punish]]. Many of his moves such as dash attack, up tilt, up aerial and down aerial are easier to tipper, while some of them are also stronger in both damage and knockback.
When it comes to direct changes, [[Dancing Blade]] has been sped up greatly, making its hits link into each other much more consistently, and the tippered fourth forward hit has significantly higher knockback, being able to KO at much lower percentages than before. The ability to angle [[Shield Breaker]] vertically increases the move's coverage, to the point the down angled version will always tipper in a successful [[edge#2 frame punish|2 frame punish]]. Many of his moves such as dash attack, up tilt, up aerial and down aerial are easier to tipper, while some of them are also stronger in both damage and knockback.


However, Marth has received some noteworthy, direct nerfs, most notably to his KO ability and [[neutral attack]]. Some of Marth's attacks, like his sourspotted forward smash and Dancing Blade's fourth forward hit, as well as his tippered forward aerial now deal less knockback, whereas his neutral, forward and back aerials have had their hitbox positionings worsened, making landing the tippers slightly more difficult. Additionally, his up throw is slightly weaker as well. This makes it more important for Marth to carefully space his attacks in order to land his tippers to finish strings to deal more damage and score KOs. His neutral attack, previously an excellent combo starter and neutral tool due to its first hit, has been altered as with most neutral attacks so that it can only follow up into the second hit from the first, removing its powerful [[jab cancel]] from ''SSB4'' that was useful to Marth's gameplan in exchange of more situational jab [[lock]] capabilities.
However, Marth has received some noteworthy, direct nerfs, most notably to his KO ability and [[neutral attack]]. Some of Marth's sourspotted attacks (most notably forward smash and Dancing Blade's fourth forward hit) and tipper forward aerial now deal less knockback, whereas his neutral, forward and back aerials have had their hitbox positionings worsened, making landing the tippers slightly more difficult. Additionally, his up throw, previously an emergency KO option with the aid of [[rage]], is slightly weaker as well. This makes it more important for Marth to carefully space his attacks in order to land his tippers to finish strings to deal more damage and score KOs. His neutral attack, previously an excellent combo starter and neutral tool due to its first hit, has been altered as with most neutral attacks so that it can only follow up into the second hit from the first, removing its powerful [[jab cancel]] from ''SSB4'' that was useful to Marth's gameplan in exchange of more situational jab [[lock]] capabilities.


Marth's specials and grab game have also been weakened. [[Dolphin Slash]] and [[Counter]] are a bit more punishable than before, and Dancing Blade deals less damage in exchange for its improved linking potential. On top of the worsened KO ability on his up throw, forward throw has also lost its combo potential, which weakens Marth's options against shields.
Marth's specials and grab game have also been weakened. [[Dolphin Slash]] and [[Counter]] are a bit more punishable than before, and Dancing Blade deals less damage in exchange for its improved linking potential. Aside from the nerf to his up throw, forward throw has also lost its combo potential. His less rewarding grab and larger reliance on sweetspotted attacks now weakens Marth's options against shields.


Despite benefitting from some of them, Marth has been also hindered by the gameplay mechanics, due to his defensive playstyle. Particularly, the universal increase in mobility, while improving his approach and further increasing his already fast mobility, has also made landing his tippers more difficult, as the game's faster pace encourages aggressive playstyles more than in ''SSB4''. The removal of perfect pivoting and lack of quick, safe, and reliable grounded micro spacing options further magnifies his spacing troubles. On top of it, Marth's already linear recovery was also made more telegraphed by the changes to air dodging as well as the reduction in [[edge sweet spot]] size, making him easier to edgeguard and thus worsening his survivability. Lastly, the weakening of rage weakens Marth's ability to close out stocks at ludicrously low percentages.
Despite benefitting from some of them, Marth has been also hindered by the gameplay mechanics, due to his defensive playstyle. Particularly, the universal increase in mobility, while improving his approach and further increasing his already fast mobility, has also made landing his tippers more difficult, as the game's faster pace fosters more aggressive playstyles than in ''SSB4''. The removal of perfect pivoting and lack of quick, safe, and reliable grounded micro spacing options further magnifies his spacing troubles. On top of it, Marth's already linear recovery was also made more telegraphed by the changes to air dodging as well as the reduction in [[edge sweet spot]] size, making him easier to edgeguard and thus worsening his survivability. Lastly, the weakening of rage weakens Marth's ability to close out stocks at ludicrously low percentages.


Overall, the buffs Marth got and the benefits he gained from the engine do not compensate for the nerfs he received and the hindrances the engine has also indirectly given him, as Marth now has a harder time landing his tipper sweet spots, which is especially troublesome as he relies on spacing in order to KO opponents below high percentages. In addition, the knockback nerfs to some of his attacks have made it more difficult for him to consistently KO his opponents at low percentages. This causes Marth to shift to a more offensive playstyle, where he relies more on his sourspotted hits to combo his opponents while remaining at a safe distance from where he can poke them with tippered attacks. Game updates have remedied some of Marth's issues, making it slightly easier and more rewarding for him to land some of his tipper hitboxes and slightly improving his dash grab range, though these buffs did not raise his standing significantly. As a result, Marth performs worse in ''Ultimate'' compared to ''SSB4'', and is generally seen as inferior to his Echo Fighter and semi-clone, {{SSBU|Lucina}} and {{SSBU|Roy}}, who are widely regarded as more rewarding than him and thus superior as a result.
Overall, the buffs Marth got and the benefits he gained from the engine do not compensate the nerfs he received and the hindrances the engine has also indirectly given him, as Marth now has a harder time landing his tipper sweet spots, which is especially troublesome as he relies on spacing in order to KO opponents below high percentages. In addition, the knockback nerfs to some of his attacks have made it more difficult for him to consistently KO his opponents at low percentages. This causes Marth to shift to a more offensive playstyle, where he relies more on his sourspotted hits to combo his opponents while remaining at a safe distance from where he can poke them with tippered attacks. Game updates have remedied some of Marth's issues, making it slightly easier and more rewarding for him to land some of his tipper hitboxes and slightly improving his dash grab range, though these buffs did not raise his standing significantly. As a result, Marth performs worse in ''Ultimate'' compared to ''SSB4'', and is generally seen as inferior to his Echo Fighter and semi-clone, {{SSBU|Lucina}} and {{SSBU|Roy}}, who are widely regarded as more rewarding than him and thus superior as a result.


{{SSB4 to SSBU changelist|char=Marth}}
{{SSB4 to SSBU changelist|char=Marth}}
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|nsname=Shield Breaker
|nsname=Shield Breaker
|nsdmg=8%/9% (uncharged), 22%/24% (fully charged)
|nsdmg=8%/9% (uncharged), 22%/24% (fully charged)
|nsdesc=Marth assumes a readying stance and charges Falchion at chest level before powerfully thrusting it forward. This attack deals massive [[shield damage]] even when uncharged, and will instantly break shields at full charge, although it can be safely [[perfect shield]]ed. The aerial version gives Marth a very slight horizontal boost, while a fully charged aerial version will thrust Marth in whatever direction he's facing, giving him a strong horizontal recovery option, albeit with a very high startup. Deals very high knockback when tippered, making it a powerful KOing option, (being one of the strongest neutral specials in the game) although it is still weaker than his tippered forward smash. It can be angled up or down, though this does not change the damage or knockback. The attack deals 1.15× regular damage if it hits the opponent's head.
|nsdesc=Marth assumes a readying stance and charges Falchion at chest level before powerfully thrusting it forward. This attack deals massive [[shield damage]] even when uncharged, and will instantly break shields at full charge, although it can be safely [[perfect shield]]ed. The aerial version gives Marth a very slight horizontal boost, while a fully charged aerial version will thrust Marth in whatever direction he's facing, giving him a strong horizontal recovery option, albeit with a very high startup. Deals very high knockback when tippered, making it a powerful KOing option, (bring one of the strongest neutral specials in the game) although it is still weaker than his tippered forward smash. It can be angled up or down, though this does not change the damage or knockback. The attack deals 1.15× regular damage if it hits the opponent's head.
|ssname=Dancing Blade
|ssname=Dancing Blade
|ssdmg=Varies (see below)
|ssdmg=Varies (see below)
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In stark contrast to pre-release ''Ultimate'', where it was speculated that Marth could be the best character in the game, Marth initially saw a near-nonexistent playerbase due to nerfs such as smaller tipper hitboxes and the removal of perfect pivoting to space tippers consistently. As a result of this, all of Marth's prominent players from ''Smash 4'' dropped him in favor of other characters, most notably his echo fighter {{SSBU|Lucina}}, who was widely considered to be more effective and easier than Marth as a character. Despite seeing brief usage from {{Sm|MkLeo}} in the second half of 2019, Marth was considered an "irrelevant" character in tournament play, with data collected from [[OrionRank]] co-founder {{Sm|Barnard's Loop}} showing that Marth had the third worst representation in the game in April 2020.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/LoopBarnard/status/1252705963557208064|title=Barnard's Loop's stats}}</ref>  
In stark contrast to pre-release ''Ultimate'', where it was speculated that Marth could be the best character in the game, Marth initially saw a near-nonexistent playerbase due to nerfs such as smaller tipper hitboxes and the removal of perfect pivoting to space tippers consistently. As a result of this, all of Marth's prominent players from ''Smash 4'' dropped him in favor of other characters, most notably his echo fighter {{SSBU|Lucina}}, who was widely considered to be more effective and easier than Marth as a character. Despite seeing brief usage from {{Sm|MkLeo}} in the second half of 2019, Marth was considered an "irrelevant" character in tournament play, with data collected from [[OrionRank]] co-founder {{Sm|Barnard's Loop}} showing that Marth had the third worst representation in the game in April 2020.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/LoopBarnard/status/1252705963557208064|title=Barnard's Loop's stats}}</ref>  


Subsequent patches buffed several of Marth's tipper hitboxes, making it easier to connect tippers reliably. Furthermore, since the end of the [[COVID-19 pandemic and its impact on competitive Smash|COVID-19 pandemic]], Marth's representation has steadily improved at locals and minor circuits, with success from players such as {{Sm|Kreeg}}, {{Sm|Ignaize}} and {{Sm|Rizeasu}}. Finally, MkLeo briefly brought the character back into his roster in late-2022 and early-2023, defeating players such as {{Sm|Riddles}} and {{Sm|Cosmos}}. As such, some players began arguing whether Marth was underrated in the metagame, due to the positive traits he shares with Lucina and other highly regarded sword-wielding characters, as well as the untapped potential from his tipper mechanic offering him high KO capabilities with safe disjoints. However, other players pointed to how his tipper hitboxes remained inconsistent despite the buffs and that his overall representation remained poor, often hovering around the bottom 10, with all of Marth's best players often using other characters alongside Marth. With little change in Marth's reputation in the post-online metagame, his placement has remained the same on the first two tier lists, ranking 54th on the first in B- tier, and dropping a spot to 55th on the second, although due to the restructuring of the tier list, he is now ranked in C+ tier.
Subsequent patches buffed several of Marth's tipper hitboxes, making it easier to connect tippers reliably. Furthermore, since the end of the [[COVID-19 pandemic and its impact on competitive Smash|COVID-19 pandemic]], Marth's representation has steadily improved at locals and minor circuits, with success from players such as {{Sm|Kreeg}}, {{Sm|Ignaize}} and {{Sm|Rizeasu}}. Finally, MkLeo briefly brought the character back into his roster in late-2022 and early-2023, defeating players such as {{Sm|Riddles}} and {{Sm|Cosmos}}. As such, some players began arguing whether Marth was underrated in the metagame, due to the positive traits he shares with Lucina and other highly regarded sword-wielding characters, as well as the untapped potential from his tipper mechanic offering him high KO capabilities with safe disjoints. However, other players pointed to how his tipper hitboxes remained inconsistent despite the buffs and that his overall representation remained poor, often hovering around the bottom 10, with all of Marth's best players often using other characters alongside Marth. With little change in Marth's reputation in the post-online metagame, his placement has remained the same on the first two tier lists, ranking 54th on the first as a lower-mid tier character, and 55th on the second in the C+ tier.


=={{SSBU|Classic Mode}}: A Kingdom of Dragons==
=={{SSBU|Classic Mode}}: A Kingdom of Dragons==

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