Editing Marth (PM)

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{{Infobox Character Mod
{{Infobox Character Mod
|name = Marth
|name = Marth
|image = {{tabber|title1=Marth (PM)|content1=[[File:Marth SSBB.jpg|250x250px]]|title2=Marth (P+)|content2=[[File:PPlus Marth.png|250x250px]]|title3=Sigurd’s Armor|content3=[[File:Holy War Marth PM.png|250x250px]]|title4=Hooded Marth (P+)|content4=[[File:PPlus Hooded Marth.png|250px]]}}
|image = {{tabber|title1=Marth (PM)|content1=[[File:Marth SSBB.jpg|250x250px]]|title2=Marth (P+)|content2=[[File:PPlus Marth.png|250x250px]]|title3=Sigurd’s Armor|content3=[[File:Holy War Marth PM.png|250x250px]]}}
|mod = Project M
|mod = Project M
|base = SSBB
|base = SSBB
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Marth has been mostly reverted to his ''Melee'' iteration, with a few buffs, such as a slightly improved recovery, a more reliable hitbox on his up smash, and less lag on his down aerial. He retains his strengths from ''Melee'', such as his disjointed range, fantastic [[spacing]] tools, and great edgeguarding capabilities. However, he still must contend with the same weaknesses, such as his poor horizontal recovery, difficulty landing safely, and lack of a projectile or lingering hitboxes.
Marth has been mostly reverted to his ''Melee'' iteration, with a few buffs, such as a slightly improved recovery, a more reliable hitbox on his up smash, and less lag on his down aerial. He retains his strengths from ''Melee'', such as his disjointed range, fantastic [[spacing]] tools, and great edgeguarding capabilities. However, he still must contend with the same weaknesses, such as his poor horizontal recovery, difficulty landing safely, and lack of a projectile or lingering hitboxes.


Compared to ''Melee'', however, Marth is less effective in the metagame due to the large amount of buffs other characters have received to counter the effectiveness of his tools. The [[tournament legal]] stagelist also works against him; while Marth only had some degree of disadvantage in ''Melee'' on {{SSB|Dream Land}}, ''Project M'' introduces similarly large stages such as Delfino Secret that Marth struggles to KO on, while relegating one of his previously best stages, [[Final Destination]], as a counterpick in most rulesets.
Unlike some other high-tier ''Melee'' characters, like {{PM|Jigglypuff}}, Marth remains fairly viable in ''Project M'', and is a strong pick for competitive play. Overall, though, Marth is less effective in the metagame due to the large amount of buffs other characters have received to counter the effectiveness of his tools. The [[tournament legal]] stagelist also works against him; while Marth only had some degree of disadvantage in ''Melee'' on {{SSB|Dream Land}}, ''Project M'' introduces similarly large stages that Marth struggles to KO on, while relegating his previously best stage, [[Final Destination]], as a counterpick in most rulesets.
 
Unlike some other high-tier ''Melee'' characters, like {{PM|Jigglypuff}}, Marth overall remains fairly viable in ''Project M'', and is a strong pick for competitive play.


==Changes from ''Melee'' to ''PM''==
==Changes from ''Melee'' to ''PM''==
Marth was slightly buffed from ''Melee'' to ''Project M'', receiving a few additional tweaks and fixes to some of his moves to make them more reliable.  
Marth was slightly buffed from ''Melee'' to ''Project M'', receiving a few additional tweaks and fixes to some of his moves to make them more reliable.  


His up smash was notably improved, with the tipper hitbox now properly covering the entire tip of the sword, and now having the ability to [[DACUS]]. His down aerial had its landing lag reduced, allowing it to be used more effectively as an [[out of shield]] option and combo starter.
His up smash was notably improved, with the tipper hitbox now properly covering the entire tip of the sword, and now having the ability to [[DACUS]]. His down aerial had its ending and landing lag reduced, allowing it to be used more effectively as an [[out of shield]] option, combo starter, and edgeguarding tool.


Marth's already potent [[grab]] game has also seen subtle improvements. His already impressive grab range was increased slightly (although his dash grab range was reduced), and his [[forward throw]] notably benefits from grabs no longer negating horizontal momentum, thanks to his low traction. His [[Back throw|back]] and [[down throw]]s also saw direct improvements, with the former having less ending lag, and the latter sending opponents at a better angle for followups.
Marth's already potent [[grab]] game has also seen subtle improvements. His already impressive grab range was increased slightly (although his dash grab range was reduced), and his [[forward throw]] notably benefits from grabs no longer negating horizontal momentum, thanks to his low traction. His [[Back throw|back]] and [[down throw]]s also saw direct improvements, with the former having less ending lag, and the latter sending opponents at a better angle for followups.
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*{{change|Marth has an altered size multiplier (x1.15 → x0.975). However, his overall size remains unchanged as his ''Brawl'' model is naturally bigger than his ''Melee'' model.}}
*{{change|Marth has an altered size multiplier (x1.15 → x0.975). However, his overall size remains unchanged as his ''Brawl'' model is naturally bigger than his ''Melee'' model.}}
**{{change|His [[shield]] size was also compensated to match (11.75 → 9.8).}}
**{{change|His [[shield]] size was also compensated to match (11.75 → 9.8).}}
*{{buff|Marth's lower sword-arm hurtbox is now [[grab#Limits on grabbing|ungrabbable]], making it harder to grab him while he is attacking.}}
*{{buff|Marth's [[roll]]s have less ending lag (FAF 36 (both) → 32 (forward)/33 (back)).}}
*{{buff|Marth's [[roll]]s have less ending lag (FAF 36 (both) → 32 (forward)/33 (back)).}}
*{{nerf|Back roll has less [[Intangibility]] frames, matching his forward roll (frame 4-23 → 4-19).}}
*{{nerf|Back roll has less [[Intangibility]] frames, matching his forward roll (frame 4-23 → 4-19).}}
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*{{nerf|Marth's star spit when [[Inhale]]d by {{PM|Kirby}} or {{PM|King Dedede}} retains it ''Brawl'' damage, dealing less than ''Melee'' as a result (15% → 13%), hindering its potential in [[Doubles]].}}
*{{nerf|Marth's star spit when [[Inhale]]d by {{PM|Kirby}} or {{PM|King Dedede}} retains it ''Brawl'' damage, dealing less than ''Melee'' as a result (15% → 13%), hindering its potential in [[Doubles]].}}
*{{buff|The removal of [[lightshield]]ing benefits Marth moreso than any other returning verteran, as it is harder for opponents to perform the [[Marth killer]] against him.}}
*{{buff|The removal of [[lightshield]]ing benefits Marth moreso than any other returning verteran, as it is harder for opponents to perform the [[Marth killer]] against him.}}
*{{buff|The changes to ledge jumps now allowing characters to be actionable sooner benefits Marth, as he now has an additional viable way of getting off the ledge, one of his main weaknesses in ''Melee'', while Marth himself is not particularly hindered by other characters being able to use it against him, due to his relatively high jump and large disjointed hitboxes being able to catch opponents off of ledge easily.}}


===Ground Attacks===
===Ground Attacks===
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*[[Neutral aerial]]:
*[[Neutral aerial]]:
**{{buff|It deals 0.09% more damage if both hits connect (13.91% → 14%), due to the changes to [[stale-move negation]].}}
**{{buff|It deals 0.09% more damage if both hits connect (13.91% → 14%), due to the changes to [[stale-move negation]].}}
*[[Forward aerial]]:
 
**{{buff|Forward aerial has a slightly altered animation where Marth does not lean his legs forward as much while maintaining the same swing arch and reach as ''Melee'', making his hurtbox less vulnerable in front of him, and relatively increasing the move's already impressive range.}}
*[[Back aerial]]:
**{{buff|Back aerial now has an initial [[auto-cancel]] window from frames 1-5 like in ''Brawl''.}}
*[[Up aerial]]:
**{{buff|Up aerial has less ending lag (FAF 46 → 44).}}
*[[Down aerial]]:
*[[Down aerial]]:
**{{buff|Down aerial has less landing lag (32/16 frames → 25/12), noticeably improving its safety and follow-up potential.}}
**{{buff|It has less landing lag (32/16 frames → 25/12).}}
**{{nerf|Down aerial has a slightly shorter initial auto-cancel window and auto-cancels slightly later (frames 1-5 (initial)/frame 48 1-4/49).}}
**{{change|The body hitbox is now closer to the center of Marth's chest as opposed to near his left arm (z offset: 0u 1u).}}


===Throws and other attacks===
===Throws and other attacks===
*[[Grab]]s:
*[[Grab]]s:
**{{nerf|Marth's standing grab has more ending lag (FAF 31 → 32).}}
**{{buff| Marth's already impressive standing grab range has been increased and is positioned slightly lower (y offset: 8.20u/7.81u/7.42u → 9.43u/8.98u/8.54u, z offset: 12.88u/9.76u/7.03u → 14.82u/11.23u/8.09u), improving its horizontal reach, and making its innermost grabbox slightly less prone to being low-profiled by smaller characters.}}
**{{buff| Marth's already impressive standing grab range is positioned slightly lower and farther (y offset: 8.20u/7.81u/7.42u → 9.43u/8.98u/8.54u, z offset: 12.88u/9.76u/7.03u → 14.82u/11.23u/8.09u), slightly improving its horizontal reach, and making its innermost grabbox slightly less prone to being low-profiled by smaller characters.}}
**{{buff|Dash grab has less startup lag (frame 10 → 9).}}
**{{buff|Dash grab has less start-up lag (frame 10 → 9).}}
**{{nerf|Dash grab's hitbox placements have been altered, and has lost one of its inner hitboxes (y offset: 7.4214u/7.0308u/6.6402u/6.6402u → 7.6u/7.17u/7.17u, z offset: 14.0616u/9.765u/5.4684u/1.5624u → 10.55u/5.9u/1.69u). This overall reduces its horizontal range, especially behind Marth.}}
**{{nerf|Dash grab's hitbox placements have been altered, and has lost one of its inner hitboxes (y offset: 7.4214u/7.0308u/6.6402u/6.6402u → 7.6u/7.17u/7.17u, z offset: 14.0616u/9.765u/5.4684u/1.5624u → 10.55u/5.9u/1.69u). This overall reduces its horizontal range, especially behind Marth.}}
**{{nerf|Compared to ''Brawl'', Marth's pivot grab has an altered animation, where Marth reaches higher, more closely resembling his dash grab animation in ''Melee''. The grabboxes are smaller with the grabbox behind him being removed (4u/4u/4u → 3.91u/3.91u), reducing it is horizontal range combined with its new animation, despite the grabboxes being positioned further away from Marth (z offset: -15u/-6.5u → -16u/-8.09u).}}
**{{nerf|The remaining grabboxes on Marth's pivot grab have been repositioned higher (y offset: 5u/6u → 8.54u/8.09u). Combined with its altered animation, this makes it more prone to being low-profiled by smaller characters.}}
*{{change|Marth vocalizes as he throws his opponent for all of his throws, rather than as soon as their animations start.}}
*{{change|Marth vocalizes as he throws his opponent for all of his throws, rather than as soon as their animations start.}}
*{{buff|Marth benefits from the changes to grabs no longer negating horizontal momentum against characters with low traction, as it noticeably improves [[forward throw]]'s followup and [[chain grab]]bing potential when [[jump-canceled grab]]bed, combined with his standing grab's slightly longer reach.}}
*{{buff|Marth benefits from the changes to grabs no longer negating horizontal momentum against characters with low traction moreso than any other returning veteran, as it noticeably improves [[Forward throw]]'s followup and [[chain grab]]bing potential when [[jump-canceled grab]]bed, combined with his standing grab's longer reach.}}
*[[Back throw]]:
*[[Back throw]]:
**{{buff|Back throw has a shorter animation (44 frames → 40), improving its follow up potential.}}
**{{buff|Back throw has a shorter animation (44 frames → 40), improving its follow up potential.}}
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*[[Dancing Blade]]:
*[[Dancing Blade]]:
**Hit 3:
**Hit 3:
***{{nerf|Each variant deals less damage (10% → 9% (forward), 6% → 5% (up), 12% → 11% (down)), with their knockback scaling compensated (160 176 (forward), 60 → 68 (up), 100 → 107 (down)).}}
***{{buff|The forward and downwards variants have increased knockback scaling (160 → 176 (forward), 100 → 107 (downward)), improving their KO potential overall despite their lower damage.}}
***{{nerf|Each variant deals less damage (10% → 9% (forward), 6% → 5% (up), 12% → 11% (down)).}}
***{{nerf|The upwards variant has more knockback scaling (60 68), hindering its follow-up potential, while still not being able to reliably KO at higher percents.}}
**Hit 4:
**Hit 4:
***{{nerf|Each variant deals less damage (14% → 13% (forward), 10% → 9% (up), 5% → 3% (down)), with their knockback scaling compensated (120 → 128 (forward), 130 → 141 (up), 130 → 175 (down final hit)).}}
***{{buff|Each variant has more knockback scaling (120 → 128 (forward), 130 → 141 (up), 130 → 175 (down final hit). improving their KO potential overall despite their lower damage.}}
**{{buff|The changes to stale-move negation and [[knockback#Knockback_stacking|knockback stacking]] make Dancing Blade's hits connect more reliably. The changes to the former mechanic also improve Dancing Blade's potential damage output if all sequences connect, despite the third and fourth variants' lower damage.}}
***{{nerf|Each variant deals less damage (14% → 13% (forward), 10% → 9% (up), 5% → 3% (down)).}}
****{{buff|Altogether, these changes make Dancing Blade more reliable and useful as the hits connect more reliably with the altered knockback, in addition to the changes to stale-move negation and [[knockback#Knockback_stacking|knockback stacking]]. The changes to the former mechanic also improve Dancing Blade's potential damage output if all sequences connect, despite the third and fourth variants' lower damage.}}
*[[Dolphin Slash]]:
*[[Dolphin Slash]]:
**{{buff|Dolphin Slash can now grab edges at the height of the jump when Marth is facing away from it, improving his recovery potential.}}
**{{buff|Dolphin Slash can now grab edges at the height of the jump when Marth is facing away from it, improving his recovery potential.}}
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**{{buff|Counter has gained an additional hitbox at the tip of the sword, improving its coverage.}}
**{{buff|Counter has gained an additional hitbox at the tip of the sword, improving its coverage.}}
**{{nerf|Counter has a higher hitlag multiplier (1× → 1.2×), making it easier to DI.}}
**{{nerf|Counter has a higher hitlag multiplier (1× → 1.2×), making it easier to DI.}}
==Changes from ''PM'' to ''P+''==
Marth received small buffs and fixes in the transition to ''Project+''.
===Attributes===
*{{buff|Wall Jump has less horizontal velocity (1.3 → 1). This makes it less likely for Marth to self-destruct after a wall jump tech without having to immediately use his back aerial.}}
*{{buff|Back [[roll]] has less ending lag (IASA 33 → 32).}}
*{{buff|As a universal change across the cast, forward getup roll has less startup with increased intangibility (frame 6-20 → 1-20).}}
*{{bugfix|Fixed a bug where Marth's [[get-up attack]] while facing up started a frame late.}}
===Ground Attacks===
*[[Down tilt]]:
**{{buff|Down tilt can now be interrupted by shielding without having to perform another action.}}
*[[Forward smash]]:
**{{change|Adjusted animation on forward smash on the arm rotation to arc more naturally}}
===Throws and other attacks===
*Down Throw
**{{change|Down throw's release point and throw animation adjusted to more closely resemble ''Melee'''s.}}
===Special Moves===
*Shield Breaker
**{{Bugfix|Fixed an issue where Marth’s eyes retained their behavior from ''Brawl'' instead of looking forward.}}
*Dancing Blade:
**{{change|Dancing Blade colors are now based on the direction used instead of being a set order, akin to ''Brawl''. (Red (hit 1), Blue (hit 2), Green (hit 3), Red (hit 4) → Red (forward), Blue (up), Green (down)).}}
*Counter:
**{{buff|Counterattack's intangibility frames were increased to fully cover when the hitbox is active (frames 1-8 → 1-9).}}


==Revisions==
==Revisions==
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'''v3.6b'''
'''v3.6b'''
*{{bugfix|Exploit fixed that altered Marth's vertical mobility during Dolphin Slash ending lag.}}
*{{bugfix|Exploit fixed that altered Marth's vertical mobility during Dolphin Slash ending lag.}}
==Changes from ''PM'' to ''P+''==
Marth received small buffs and fixes in the transition to ''Project+'', although his down aerial and back throw received slightly more landing and ending lag respectively, albeit both still less than in ''Melee''.
Overall, Marth is the least changed character between ''Project M'' and ''Project+'', and still remains a viable character in competitive play.
===Attributes===
*{{buff|Wall Jump has less horizontal velocity (1.3 → 1). This makes it less likely for Marth to self-destruct after a wall jump tech without having to use his back aerial immediately.}}
*{{buff|Back [[roll]] has less ending lag (IASA 33 → 32).}}
*{{buff|As a universal change across the cast, forward getup roll has less startup with increased intangibility (frame 6-20 → 1-20).}}
*{{bugfix|Fixed a bug where Marth's [[get-up attack]] while facing up started a frame late.}}
===Ground Attacks===
*[[Down tilt]]:
**{{buff|Down tilt can now be interrupted by shielding without having to perform another action.}}
*[[Forward smash]]:
**{{change|Adjusted animation on forward smash on the arm rotation to arc more naturally}}
===Aerial Attacks===
*Down aerial:
**{{nerf|Down aerial has slightly more landing lag (25/12 frames → 28/14), though it is still less than in ''Melee''.}}
===Throws and other attacks===
*Back throw:
**{{nerf|Back throw has slightly more ending lag (FAF 40 → 42).}}
*Down Throw:
**{{change|Down throw's release point and throw animation adjusted to more closely resemble ''Melee'''s.}}
===Special Moves===
*Shield Breaker:
**{{Bugfix|Fixed an issue where Marth’s eyes retained their behavior from ''Brawl'' instead of looking forward.}}
*Dancing Blade:
**{{change|Dancing Blade colors are now based on the direction used instead of being a set order, akin to ''Brawl''. (Red (hit 1), Blue (hit 2), Green (hit 3), Red (hit 4) → Red (forward), Blue (up), Green (down)).}}
*Counter:
**{{buff|Counterattack's intangibility frames were increased to fully cover when the hitbox is active (frames 1-8 → 1-9).}}


==Moveset==
==Moveset==
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|-
|-
! colspan=2 | Forward smash
! colspan=2 | Forward smash
| Dragon Killer || {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|14}}/{{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|20}}|| Rotates body counter-clockwise with a strong arc-like one-handed swing from his head to the ground. Very fast start-up, good horizontal and vertical reach, but has noticeable ending lag. The tip can KO at closer distances to the blast lines as early as 75% on lightweights and 90% on heavyweights due its very high base knockback.  
| Dragon Killer || {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|14}}/{{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|20}} || Rotates body counter-clockwise with a strong arc-like one-handed swing from his head to the ground. Very fast start-up, good horizontal and vertical reach, but has noticeable ending lag. The tip can KO at closer distances to the blast lines as early as 75% on lightweights and 90% on heavyweights due its very high base knockback.  
|-
|-
! colspan=2 | Up smash
! colspan=2 | Up smash
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==In [[competitive play]]==
==In [[competitive play]]==
===Notable tech===
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/mmvpn8/labbing_discord_results_marth/ Labbing Discord Tech Post]
===Most historically significant players===
===Most historically significant players===
<!--This character has a ten player limit for this section. Before adding and/or removing a player, read these guidelines: https://www.ssbwiki.com/SmashWiki:Notability#%22Most_historically_significant_players%22_guidelines -->
<!--This character has a ten player limit for this section. Before adding and/or removing a player, read these guidelines: https://www.ssbwiki.com/SmashWiki:Notability#%22Most_historically_significant_players%22_guidelines -->
''Any number following the Smasher name indicates placement on the [[PMRank 2019]], which recognizes the official top 50 players in the world in [[Project M]] during 2019.''


''See also: [[:Category:Marth players (PM)]]''
''See also: [[:Category:Marth players (PM)]]''
*{{Sm|Jagz$|USA}} - Currently one of the best players in Florida and one of the best active Marth players. Was ranked 41st on [[PMRank 2022]]. Placed 2nd at {{Trn|Undertow 2023}} with solo Marth.
*{{Sm|Jagz$|USA}} - Currently top 3 in Florida and one of the best active Marth players. Placed 17th at [[Undertow]], and 5th at [[Lazer Lazer 20]].
*{{Sm|Jonsch|Germany}} - One of the best players in Europe.
*{{Sm|Jonsch|Germany}} - One of the best players in Europe.
*{{Sm|Lunchables|USA}} - One of the best Marth players while also playing {{PM|Roy}}, {{PM|Toon Link}} and {{PM|Meta Knight}}. Ranked 3rd on [[PMRank 2023]], and has ranked as high as 2nd on [[PMRank 2016]] primarily using Marth and Roy.
*{{Sm|Lunchables|USA}} - Formerly the best Marth player in the world prior to his hiatus. Formerly ranked 3rd on [[PMRank 2018]].
*{{Sm|Rongunshu|Canada}} - Co-mains Marth and {{PM|Lucario}}. Ranked #4 on [[PMRank 2023]] and won {{Trn|Mile High Club}} with solo Marth.
*{{Sm|Rongunshu|Canada}} (#9) - Co-mains Marth and Lucario. Placed 2nd at [[Frozen Phoenix 2018]] and [[Resting Stitch Face 2]].


==Alternate costumes==
==Alternate costumes==
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*The red costume is based on {{s|fireemblem|Eldigan}}, one of Sigurd's closest friends.
*The red costume is based on {{s|fireemblem|Eldigan}}, one of Sigurd's closest friends.
*The green costume is based on {{s|fireemblem|Quan}}, Sigurd's other close friend.
*The green costume is based on {{s|fireemblem|Quan}}, Sigurd's other close friend.
*The blue costume is loosely based on either {{s|fireemblem|Seliph}}, Sigurd's son, or {{s|fireemblem|Byron}}, his father.
*The blue costume is loosely based on either {{s|fireemblem|Seliph}}, Sigurd's son, or {{s|fireemblem|Byron}} (Vyron in Japan), his father.


===''Project+''===
===''Project+''===
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[[File:Marth Palette (P+).png|800px|thumb|center|Marth's alternate costumes in ''P+'']]
[[File:Marth Palette (P+).png|800px|thumb|center|Marth's alternate costumes in ''P+'']]


'''Secret costumes:'''
'''Z-Secret Costume:''' ''Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light'' Marth
 
[[File:Marth Z P+.png|160px]]
 
'''Z-Secret Costume:''' Legacied Hero Marth (based on his appearance in ''Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light'')


'''R-Secret Costume:''' ''Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem'' Marth (much like ''[[SSB4]]'' and ''[[Ultimate]]'')
'''R-Secret Costume:''' ''Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem'' Marth (much like ''[[SSB4]]'' and ''[[Ultimate]]'')
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==Trivia==
==Trivia==
*Marth's alternate outfit contains a locket with a picture of {{s|fireemblemwiki|Caeda}}, Marth's significant other in the ''Fire Emblem'' series.
*Marth's alternate outfit contains a locket with a picture of {{s|fireemblemwiki|Caeda}}, Marth's significant other in the ''Fire Emblem'' series.
==External links==
*[https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/mmvpn8/labbing_discord_results_marth/ Labbing Discord Tech Post]


{{Project M}}
{{Project M}}
[[Category:Marth]]
[[Category:Marth]]
[[Category:Characters (PM)]]
[[Category:Characters (PM)]]

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