Editing Ivysaur (PM)

{{ArticleIcons|pm=y|p+=y}}

|name = Ivysaur

|image = {{tabber|title1=Classic (PM)|content1=[[File:Ivysaur SSBB.jpg|250x250px]]|title2=Classic (P+)|content2=[[File:PPlus Ivysaur.png|250x250px]]|title3=Substitute (P+)|content3=[[File:PPlus Substitute Ivysaur.png|250x250px]]|title4=Hex Maniac (P+)|content4=[[File:PPlus Hex Maniac Ivysaur.png|250x250px]]}}

|mod = Project M

|base = SSBB

|moveset1 = Ivysaur (SSBB)

|altcostume = [[Substitute|Substitute Ivysaur]] (''[[Project+]]''), Hex Maniac (''Project+'')

'''Ivysaur''' is a playable character in the ''[[Brawl]]'' mod ''[[Project M]]''. Like {{PM|Charizard}} and {{PM|Squirtle}}, it has been separated from the {{SSBB|Pokémon Trainer}} and so fights alone. Its  [[down special move]], [[Pokémon change]], has been replaced with {{s|bulbapedia|Seed Bomb}} and it has also been given significant buffs.  

 

Ivysaur ranks 28th out of 41 on the [[Project M#Tier list|official]] [[tier list]], toward the midst of the C tier, roughly the same placement as Pokémon Trainer in ''Brawl''. However, as Ivysaur was considered near-useless as a standalone character in ''Brawl'', this is a significant increase in apparent viability. In the official ''[[Project+]]'' tier list, it places at an even higher placement of 19th, landing in the bottom of A tier.

In the transition to ''Project M'', Ivysaur was significantly buffed and modified to function as a mid-range zoning and anti-air character. It no longer depends on the Pokémon Trainer, losing its stamina system and crippling weakness to fire moves. It now also fights with self-healing moves and status effects befitting the Grass/Poison typing it has in its home series.

 

Ivysaur's ground moves have all received buffs. its up-smash remains the most powerful in the game and comes out more quickly, making it a more viable KO option, and its down-smash is a strong semi-spike useful both for relieving pressure and for edgeguarding. All of its other ground moves were reworked for speed and combo potential, and its jab now consists of two strong hits useful for keeping foes at a distance.

 

In the air, Ivysaur's buffed air speed gives it greater mobility for combos. Combined with its new combo option in neutral-air, its reworked forward-air designed for wall of pain combos, and its back-air – formerly one of the worst moves in the game – which can easily gimp foes offstage, foes approaching from the air are at significant risk of being comboed or simply pushed offstage. Its up-air now shoots it to the ground faster, and its down-air provides enough of a momentum boost to serve as a much more reliable tool for horizontal recovery; when used offensively with Ivysaur's new air speed, they can also serve as a juggling move and an offstage meteor smash, respectively.

 

Synthesis, its new neutral special, allows Ivysaur to heal itself for as long as the special button is held down, and its slight ending lag can be landing-cancelled. This gives Ivysaur a completely unique camping option, as some characters that rely on projectiles to force an approach can be outplayed if Ivysaur can heal itself quicker than damage can be tacked on. Characters like Falco who have reliable flinching projectiles can still lock down Ivysaur from a distance, but Ivysaur can easily force an approach from slow or non-flinching zoners like Toon Link and Fox, as Synthesis is nearly sufficient to outpace the damage they deal. Even if Ivysaur cannot completely undo damage received while using Synthesis, the move can force an approach anyway because it also charges up Ivysaur's second neutral special.

 

Once it heals 22 percentage points of damage, Ivysaur's next neutral special will become a one-time SolarBeam, a long-ranged energy beam that travels at a 45º angle from Ivysaur's bulb all the way to the upper blast line on most stages. With a SolarBeam, Ivysaur can deal a powerful finishing blow to opponents otherwise out of reach, and the move's lingering hitbox can stick around if the target airdodges too early. However, a SolarBeam charge can also serve as an effective zoning threat, as the glow of a full charge is easily visible to opponents. As a result, opponents aware of the charge will often try to recover low or approach in ways that don't put them at risk of being hit, enforcing predictable behavior that the player can take advantage of.

 

Ivysaur can alternatively heal itself and charge SolarBeam through some direct attacks, like its pummel (1%), up-throw (6%), and the sweetspots on its up-smash (9%), up-air (7%), and down-air (7%). The latter four will also flower any opponents they hit, and outside of its up-smash, they can all chain into themselves reliably. Using these moves in quick succession can self-heal Ivysaur at a startling rate while also building the rate of damage the flower deals, often forcing the target to button-mash and remove the flower instead of readying a counterattack.  

 

Razor Leaf was reworked for consistency and combo ability, giving Ivysaur a more reliable mid-range projectile, while Vine Whip's buffed damage and speed let it function as a great KO option out of a down-throw or even to punish foes on platforms. Ivysaur's new down-special, Seed Bomb, is perhaps its best tool to keep foes in the air; as the projectile rises higher, so does its knockback, which serves the same purpose as its forward-air in steadily walling foes to the blast line. Additionally, Seed Bomb has awkward but effective potential for zoning on the ground, as it will stun any foe it lands near, providing opportunities for punishment.

 

Despite Ivysaur's numerous buffs, it still has some weaknesses from ''Brawl'' that can be exploited. Ivysaur's power and flexibility in mid-range situations do not extend to close-range or long-range fights. Ivysaur's moves all have some startup that close-range combatants can take advantage of, especially out of shield, while Razor Leaf and Seed Bomb aren't enough to reach ranged fighters. While previously a middleweight in ''Brawl'', Ivysaur is now a lightweight, worsening its survivability and forcing it to use its self-healing moves to stick around. Its grab, while still as laggy as before, was shortened, making setups off of its throws much harder to achieve. Despite ''Project M''{{'}}s improved tether recovery mechanics, Ivysaur can still be knocked out of a Vine Whip mid-animation.  

 

 

In ''Brawl'', Ivysaur was tied to the {{SSBB|Pokémon Trainer}} and was considered the worst out of the three Pokémon and it was even considered a contender for the worst character in the game when judged as a standalone character. As a result, Ivysaur was [[buff]]ed greatly from ''Brawl'' to PM. Ivysaur is no longer tied to the Pokémon Trainer and its moveset has been heavily revamped. Many of Ivysaur's biggest weaknesses including its abysmal aerial game and recovery have been greatly improved. All of Ivysaur's aerials have seen many improvements in different areas and its air speed has been increased granting it a much stronger aerial game. [[Vine Whip]] is stronger, has more range and it can no longer be [[edgehog]]ged making Ivysaur's recovery much less exploitable especially when combined with its higher air speed and the introduction of directional [[air dodging]]. Many of Ivysaur's attacks have seen either improvements to their speed or power and Ivysaur now has a new very powerful tool in its kit with its Solar Beam which has replaced [[Bullet Seed]]. Ivysaur can now synthesise to build up charge for its Solar Beam. It can do this by either using its neutral special to slowly build it up or to land attacks which involve its bulb including its up smash, up throw, up and down aerials and pummel. All these attacks now heal Ivysaur and they all have a flower effect to further increase their damage output (although up smash, up aerial and down aerial require landing a sweetspot to perform this). Once the Solar Beam has been fully charge, Ivysaur can release a devastating beam which deals 25%, crosses the entire screen and has very high KO power giving it incredible KO and edgeguarding potential.

 

Despite these huge buffs, Ivysaur also received a few nerfs. Ivysaur is much lighter greatly hindering its endurance. Its KO moves including the afforementioned up smash and up aerial are far less consistent due to receiving sourspots (although those moves have seen significant buffs in other areas and they still have excellent KO power when sweetspotted) while moves such as forward smash, forward aerial and up throw have reduced KO potential. This is especially poor as killing was already one of Ivysaur's weaknesses although this is compensated with Solar Beam. Ivysaur's zoning is also weaker in some ways as its back aerial is slower and has less range while [[Razor Leaf]] is slower and only one leaf can be out at a time. Lastly as it is no longer apart of the Pokémon Trainer, Ivysaur cannot switch out with {{PM|Charizard}} or {{PM|Squirtle}} to cover up its poor matchups.

 

Overall, Ivysaur is far superior to its ''Brawl'' incarnation and is significantly more viable in competitive play than the Pokémon Trainer despite still being in the lower half of the tier list.  

 

*{{change|Pokémon Trainer victory pose has been removed.}}

*{{change|Ivysaur has many new alternate costumes.}}

 

 

*{{buff|Forward smash has less startup lag (frame 17 → 15) and can now be [[angled]].}}

*{{buff|Down smash has less startup (frame 16 → 10) and ending lag (frame 64 → 48), does much more damage (8% → 14%/12%) and knockback, and has a semi-spike angle.}}

*{{buff|Forward aerial's sweetspot deals slightly more damage (12% → 13%) and forward aerial has less ending lag (frame 51 → 35) which when combined with the removal of hitstun canceling greatly improves its follow-up potential. It also has less landing lag (28 frames → 19).}}

*{{change|Forward aerial's sourspot and sweetspot have been swapped around. This makes forward aerial a stronger spacing tool but makes the sweetspot harder to land.}}

*{{nerf|Forward aerial deals less knockback especially the sourspot which deals less damage (10% → 9%).}}

*{{buff|Back aerial deals significantly more damage (2% → 4% (hit 1), 2%/3% → 5%/7%/8% (hit 2)) and has much more knockback giving it stronger gimping potential. It also has less ending lag (frame 46 → 41).}}

*{{nerf|Back aerial has more startup lag (frame 4 (hit 1), 13 (hit 2) → 7/17), landing lag (10 frames → 17) and has less range.}}

*{{buff|Up aerial has less startup (frame 12 → 9), ending (frame 53 → 36) and landing lag (22 frames → 21). It also shoots Ivysaur to the ground faster, has a sweetspot with a flower effect making it deal more total damage (16% → 18%), deals slightly more knockback and heals Ivysaur. It now has a hitbox during Ivysaur's descent which can lightly meteor smash, greatly increasing its safety and making it a strong landing option.}}

*{{nerf|Up aerial now has a sourspot which deals much less damage (16% → 10%) and knockback and the sweetspot deals less base damage (16% → 7%).}}

*{{buff|Down aerial has less startup lag with a longer duration (frame 11 → 8-10) and has less ending (frame 64 → 48) and landing lag (28 frames → 24) and it now [[auto-cancel]]s in a short hop. It also gives Ivysaur a momentum boost rather than halting all of Ivysaur's momentum allowing it to aid Ivysaur's recovery, and both the sourspot and  sweetspot are much stronger and the sweetspot now has a flower effect greatly increasing its damage output (8% → 20%) and it also heals Ivysaur.}}

===v2.6===

*{{nerf|Dash Attack animation is faster, strong hit duration is shorter.}}

*{{nerf|Forward air downward range decreased; animation slightly faster overall; all hits send opponents vertically.}}

*{{nerf|Back air damage/knockback decreased on ranged hits; angles generally higher; animation faster overall.}}

*{{buff|Up air falling hitbox is a spike for the first four frames while shield damage is added to bulb sweetspot and can no longer fastfall during up air to slow decent.}}

*{{buff|{{s|bulbapedia|Synthesis}}/{{s|bulbapedia|Solar Beam}} when uncharged now has a landing cancel, healing starts later in the animation, and holding B to full charge allows you to continue healing until you let go of B.}}

*{{nerf|Solarbeam now takes 22% to fully charge.}}

*{{buff|Charged {{s|bulbapedia|Synthesis}}/{{s|bulbapedia|Solar Beam}} transition to Special Fall can now grab ledges backward.}}

*{{change|[[Vine Whip]]'s sweetspot hitbox size decreased, grounded [[Vine Whip]] now matches aerial [[Vine Whip]] (has an extra active frame).}}

*{{bugfix|Fixed a glitch where the [[Vine Whip]]'s "hop" wouldn't happen immediately after hitstun.}}

*{{buff|{{s|bulbapedia|Seed Bomb}} can be angled to the left or right (less so while in the air), aerial {{s|bulbapedia|Seed Bomb}} no longer pushes Ivysaur downward.}}

===v3.0===

*{{buff|[[Vine Whip]]'s sweetspot hitbox size slightly increased.}}

*{{buff|[[Vine Whip]]'s sweetspot damage increased to 18%.}}

*{{nerf|Down tilt's 2nd hit now only pops up at the outer 2 hitboxes instead of outer 3 hitboxes.}}

*{{bugfix|Grabs - outer 2 of 5 boxes on standing and pivot grab + outer 1 box of 3 on dash grab are ground-only to alleviate chain grab issues.}}

*{{change|{{s|bulbapedia|Synthesis}}/{{s|bulbapedia|Solar Beam}} startup hit is now a relatively weak wind box.}}

*{{buff|{{s|bulbapedia|Synthesis}}/{{s|bulbapedia|Solar Beam}} max charge lowered from 22% to 18%.}}

*{{change|Aerial {{s|bulbapedia|Synthesis}}/{{s|bulbapedia|Solar Beam}} land-cancels only if the Special Button is not held.}}

*{{change|[[Razor Leaf]] checks if existing leaf is out on frame 1 instead of 15.}}

*{{change|[[Razor Leaf]] hit refresh rate is slower, damage per hit is increased by 1, and hit angle is increased to send further vertical.}}

*{{change|[[Razor Leaf]] is slowed down to v2.5 timings while float physics are also reverted to v2.5, but the move lasts 5 frames longer.}}

Up to date as of version 3.6.

! colspan=2 | !!Name!!Damage!!Description

|4%

! colspan=2 | Forward tilt

| || 2% (hits 1-4), 5% (hit 5) || Ivysaur leans forward and spins the leaves around its main bulb like a helicopter blade, hitting multiple times. This move can be aimed up or down.

! colspan=2 | Up tilt

| || 9% (center), 8% (sides) || Ivysaur plants its vines on the ground and pushes itself into the air. Has good range, with the central hit dealing straight vertical knockback.

! colspan=2 | Down tilt

| || 2%-3% (hit 1) , 5% (hit 2) || Ivysaur whips two vines quickly along the ground, hitting twice with good range. The first hit has [[set knockback]] when hitting at the tip. The second hit has either horizontal knockback if it hits at the center, or drags foes towards Ivysaur if hitting at the tip.

! colspan=2 | Dash attack

| || 12% (clean), 10% (late) || Ivysaur lunges and tackles the foe. Connecting during the early part of the animation deals powerful base knockback.

! colspan=2 | Forward smash

| || {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|15}} || Ivysaur plants its vines on the ground and launches its body forward. Decent knockback (30 base, 100 growth); can be used for [[edgeguard]]ing onstage. Can be angled up or down.

! colspan=2 | Up smash

| || {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|9}} (body), {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|12}} (explosion) || Ivysaur launches a burst of spores from its bulb. The lateral hitboxes deals strong vertical knockback, while the explosion deals more damage, less knockback, [[flower]]s the enemy, and heals 9% to Ivysaur. The percentage healed also increases with the attack's [[charge]], for a maximum of 12.3039% when fully charged).

! colspan=2 | Down smash

| || {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|14}} (center), {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBM|12}} (tip) || Ivysaur quickly whips out vines across the ground simultaneously on both sides. Has a [[semi-spike]] trajectory akin to {{PM|Jigglypuff}}'s down smash.

! colspan=2 | Neutral aerial

| || 2% (hits 1-6), 4% (hit 7), 3% (landing) || Ivysaur spins while facing diagonally downwards. Hits multiple times with the last hit dealing minor knockback.

! colspan=2 | Forward aerial

| || 9% (center), 13% (tip) || Ivysaur slaps forward with both vines. Has some start-up, but the tip is powerful, while the center can set up combos at low percentages.

! colspan=2 | Back aerial

| || 4% (hit 1), 5% (hit 2 near), 7% (hit 2 mid), 8% (hit 2 far) || Ivysaur spins vertically and hits backwards with its two respective vines. The second hit has a semi-spike angle that can easily [[gimp]] recoveries.

! colspan=2 | Up aerial

| || 7% (bulb interior), 10% (explosion), 6% (descent) || Ivysaur shoots a burst of spores out of its bulb and propels itself downward. The bulb interior flowers the opponent and heals 7% to Ivysaur. The descent weakly [[meteor smash]]es enemies and can be quickly [[L-cancel]]ed for follow-ups. Ivysaur starts [[fast fall]]ing as soon as the move is executed.

! colspan=2 | Down aerial

| || 7% (bulb interior), 10% (explosion) || Ivysaur turns upside-down and shoots a burst of spores out of its bulb. Similar to its up aerial, but deals slightly less knockback. The regular hit has a more horizontal trajectory for gimps, while the bulb interior powerfully meteor smashes the opponent in addition to flowering them and healing 7% from Ivysaur. The move completely stops Ivysaur's descent, and its quick animation can be combined with Ivysaur's fast air speed to provide a good horizontal recovery option.

! colspan=2 | Grab

| || — || Stretches Ivysaur's vines and binds the opponent. Has shorter range compared to other extended grabs, but less ending lag.

! colspan=2 | Pummel

| || 1% || Squeezes the opponent. Heals 1% to Ivysaur every time it is used. The amount charged or healed accounts for [[stale-move negation]].

! colspan=2 | Forward throw

| || 10% || Ivysaur tosses the foe forward with its vines.

! colspan=2 | Back throw

| || 11% || Ivysaur spins, then tosses the foe backwards with its vines. Higher base knockback and knockback growth than the forward throw, and a more horizontal angle.

! colspan=2 | Up throw

| || 6% || Ivysaur puts the foe over its bulb, then bounces them into the air with it. The move charges and heals 6 points every time it is used and will flower opponents. Can [[chaingrab]] fastfallers.

! colspan=2 | Down throw

| || 10% || Ivysaur does a flip and slams the foe into the ground with its vines. A good throw for chaingrabbing fastfallers. At higher percentages, or against other characters, it can lead into an aerial, a Vine Whip, or SolarBeam.

! colspan=2 | Floor attack (front)

| || 6% || Ivysaur get up with a horizontal spin, swinging its vines.

! colspan=2 | Floor attack (back)

| || 6% || Ivysaur gets up and strikes both sides with its vines.

! colspan=2 | Floor attack (trip)

| || 5% || Ivysaur stands up and hits both sides with its vines.

! colspan=2 | Edge attack (fast)

| || 6% (close), 8% (far) || Ivysaur climbs onto the stage and swings a vine.

! colspan=2 | Edge attack (slow)

| || 10% || Ivysaur slowly climbs up and delivers a quick headbutt.

! colspan=2 | Neutral special

| {{s|bulbapedia|Synthesis}}/{{s|bulbapedia|Solar Beam}} || 4% (charge), 25% (SolarBeam) || Holding the special button heals Ivysaur of approximately 1% damage per second and builds up bulb charge at the same rate. The charge start-up produces [[wind]]. Once the charge is full, using the move fires a powerful energy beam diagonally upwards, having great range and dealing strong knockback, serving as a powerful edge-guarding attack or combo finisher. To fully charge the beam from the start, Ivysaur must have 22% or more damage healed, either by the move itself or by bulb attacks and pummel. The SolarBeam has an [[electric]] effect and cannot be [[reflect]]ed, but can be [[absorb]]ed by [[PSI Magnet]] and [[Oil Panic]]. Ivysaur becomes [[helpless]] after firing the beam.

! colspan=2 | Side special

| [[Razor Leaf]] || 3% each hit || Ivysaur fires a spinning leaf forward, which hits enemies consecutively when used as a tilt and hits once when thrown as a smash attack. The leaf can be reflected, but cannot be angled and vanish upon hitting a surface, and can pass through foes and [[shield]]s.  

! colspan=2 | Up special

| [[Vine Whip]] || 11% (base), 15% (tip) || Ivysaur shoots a vine diagonally upwards. The sourspot can be easily used for repelling airborne enemies or edge-guarding onstage, while the sweetspot deals high knockback that can yield KOs at low percentages. In midair, it gives Ivysaur a boost upward, and acts as a [[tether recovery]].

! colspan=2 | Down special

| {{s|bulbapedia|Seed Bomb}} || 10% || Ivysaur fires a flashing seed upwards in a motion similar to its old neutral special. It can be slightly angled sideways in the same way as Snake's up-smash, and keeps momentum when used in midair. The seed then falls down and releases Stun Spores upon hitting a surface. The seed itself has decent vertical knockback, while the spores [[stun]]s any opponent in range, being able to [[punish]] opponents attempting to dodge Ivysaur. The seed can be reflected, though when doing so, the trajectory will be unaltered; it will just damage Ivysaur if it comes close to the explosion.

! colspan=2 | Final Smash

| {{s|bulbapedia|Sunny Day}} || 25% (each SolarBeam) || Ivysaur summons strong sunlight, restoring 66% of damage and giving Ivysaur three SolarBeam charges.

===Most historically significant players===

 

 

*{{Sm|Cala|USA}} - Ranked 33rd on [[PMRank 2018]].

*{{Sm|Kendrick|USA}} - Ivysaur/ROB dual main ranked #34 on [[PMRank 2023]].

*{{Sm|Nogh|USA}} - Ranked 26th on [[PMRank 2019]], now dual mains Ivysaur.

*{{Sm|Sabre|USA}} - Ranked 2nd in SoCal and 40th on PMRank 2019, and inventor of character-specific tech including the Flop Lock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

'''R-Secret Costume:''' Cactus/Desert based costume: May have been inspired by desert-dwelling {{s|bulbapedia|Grass}}-type Pokémon resembling cacti, such as {{s|bulbapedia|Cacnea}} and {{s|bulbapedia|Maractus}}.

*Ivysaur's Solar Beam has a 2D sprite (that comes from Suicune's Poké Ball move); unlike other objects with this feature, it won't keep facing the screen and will instead remain flat like [[Mr. Game & Watch]].

*Solar Beam is one of only two moves that can be absorbed but not reflected, the other being {{PM|Zero Suit Samus}}'s down smash.

*Unlike Squirtle and Charizard, Ivysaur's Pokémon Trainer victory pose has not been replaced, making it the only character in the game with just two victory poses.

*In older versions of ''Project M'', Ivysaur's Solar Beam was shot out of it’s  mouth.

*Originally, its Z-Secret costume took visual inspiration from [[bulbapedia:Vileplume (Pokémon)|Vileplume]] who, like Ivysaur, is a Grass/Poison-type Pokémon originating from ''{{s|bulbapedia|Pokémon Red & Blue}}'' and could be seen as a counterpart to another fully-evoled Grass/Poison-type Pokémon, [[bulbapedia:Victreebel (Pokémon)|Victreebel]].

*[https://pmunofficial.com/en/characters/ivysaur/ Ivysaur's page at the Project M website]

*[https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/i3n94h/labbing_discord_results_ivysaur/ Labbing Discord Tech Post]