Editing Forum:Zeldasmash's new SSBM Tier List

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{{Forumheader|Melee Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->
{{Forumheader|Melee Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->


This is Zeldasmash's opinion for the upcoming 10th SSBM Tier List. Doc King has recently discovered that the MBR is going to make a new and updated tier list [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwhAke296vc on a YouTube video.]So he would like you all to give your full opinions for the upcoming tier list!
This is Zeldasmash's and Doc King's opinions for the upcoming 10th SSBM Tier List. Doc King has recently discovered that the MBR is going to make a new and updated tier list [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwhAke296vc on a YouTube video.]So we would like you all to give your full opinions on the tier list, where someone should be, etc.<center>
{|class="wikitable" align="center" style="text-align:center"
{|class="wikitable" align="center" style="text-align:center"
!colspan="16"|10th [[SSBM]] Tiers
!colspan="16"|10th [[SSBM]] Tiers
|-
|-
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!colspan="4" style="background-color:#ffbfbf"|Top Tier
!colspan="4" style="background-color:#ffbfbf"|Top Tier
!colspan="5" style="background-color:#ffdfbf"|High Tier
!colspan="5" style="background-color:#ffdfbf"|High Tier
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|-
|-
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
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|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|8
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|8
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|9
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|9
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|-
|-
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[File:FoxIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Fox (SSBM)]]
!&nbsp;
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[File:SheikIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Sheik (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconSheik.png|40px|link=Sheik (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[File:FalcoIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Falco (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconFox.png|40px|link=Fox (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[File:MarthIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Marth (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconFalco.png|40px|link=Falco (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[File:CaptainFalconIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Captain Falcon (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ff7f7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconMarth.png|40px|link=Marth (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[File:SamusIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Samus (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconCaptainFalcon.png|40px|link=Captain Falcon (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[File:DrMarioIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Dr. Mario (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconSamus.png|40px|link=Samus (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[File:GanondorfIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Ganondorf (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconDoc.png|40px|link=Doc (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[File:LinkIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Link (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconGanondorf.png|40px|link=Ganondorf (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffbf7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconLink.png|40px|link=Link (SSBM)]]
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|-
|-
!colspan="8" style="background-color:#ffffbf"|Middle Tier
!colspan="8" style="background-color:#ffffbf"|Middle Tier
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|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|22
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|22
|-
|-
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:MewtwoIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Mewtwo (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconMewtwo.png|40px|link=Mewtwo (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:MarioIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Mario (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconMario.png|40px|link=Mario (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:IceClimbersIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Ice Climbers (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconIceClimbers.png|40px|link=Ice Climbers (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:PeachIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Peach (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconPeach.png|40px|link=Peach (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:JigglypuffIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Jigglypuff (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconJigglypuff.png|40px|link=Jigglypuff (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:RoyIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Roy (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconRoy.png|40px|link=Roy (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:DonkeyKongIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Donkey Kong (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconDK.png|40px|link=Donkey Kong (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[File:YoungLinkIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Young Link (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#ffff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconYoungLink.png|40px|link=Young Link (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[File:MrGame&WatchIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Mr. Game & Watch (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconGAW.png|40px|link=GAW (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[File:LuigiIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Luigi (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconLuigi.png|40px|link=Luigi (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[File:ZeldaIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Zelda (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconZelda.png|40px|link=Zelda (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[File:YoshiIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Yoshi (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconYoshi.png|40px|link=Yoshi (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[File:PikachuIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Pikachu (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7fff7f"|[[Image:SSBMIconPikachu.png|40px|link=Pikachu (SSBM)]]
|-
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|-
!colspan="4" style="background-color:#bfbfff"|Bottom Tier
!colspan="4" style="background-color:#bfbfff"|Bottom Tier
|-
|-
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|23
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|23
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|24
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|24
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|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|26
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|26
|-
|-
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[Image:SSBMIconNess.png|40px|link=Ness (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[Image:SSBMIconKirby.png|40px|link=Kirby (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[Image:SSBMIconBowser.png|40px|link=Bowser (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[Image:SSBMIconPichu.png|40px|link=Pichu (SSBM)]]
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
!&nbsp;
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[File:NessIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Ness (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[File:KirbyIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Kirby (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[File:BowserIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Bowser (SSBM)]]
|style="background-color:#7f7fff"|[[File:PichuIcon(SSBM).png|40px|link=Pichu (SSBM)]]
|}</center>
|}</center>
==Videos==
==Videos==
Here are some videos that you can look at to make up your mind about the new tier list! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 01:11, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
Here are some videos that you can look at to make up your mind about the new tier list! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 01:11, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
Line 155: Line 158:


Stop being stupid about this.  Mewtwo sucks.  Honestly, do you really think that if he was good enough to be tenth on the list people would have stayed away from him this long?  You put up one video.  And the only time in that video that matters is the final one stock on one stock, as the tier list is for singles.  Single one stock match-ups mean ''nothing'' to tiers.  A tier list is an aggregate of the play of the character over time.  At 10 years since it's release, we can stop going on potential and look at how the character plays.  If you two want to think that he is good, fine.  But if you want us to treat this as a serious discussion about a serious attempt at a tier list, it's high time you started taking some actual positions on things, and not just link to one video.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 15:00, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Stop being stupid about this.  Mewtwo sucks.  Honestly, do you really think that if he was good enough to be tenth on the list people would have stayed away from him this long?  You put up one video.  And the only time in that video that matters is the final one stock on one stock, as the tier list is for singles.  Single one stock match-ups mean ''nothing'' to tiers.  A tier list is an aggregate of the play of the character over time.  At 10 years since it's release, we can stop going on potential and look at how the character plays.  If you two want to think that he is good, fine.  But if you want us to treat this as a serious discussion about a serious attempt at a tier list, it's high time you started taking some actual positions on things, and not just link to one video.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 15:00, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
:Apparently from what they told me on the IRC, they believe Mewtwo's recovery and "teleporting" is enough to make up for his massive weaknesses in other, more important areas (of course I completely disagree with them). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 15:13, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
::No, his recovery may have a large amount of distance, but that doesn't make it good.  He is incredibly slow while recovering, which, combined with his large size, makes him very easy to off-stage.  Also, the teleporting is over rated.  In any event, there are usually three directions that will flat out kill him, two more that set him up for being hit, one or two that accomplish nothing, and only one (maybe two) that give him some kind of advantage.  So any good player will know where you are going even if they can't see Mewtwo's dodge animation.  Oh, and since you seem to like videos, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPPDvT_KRE4&feature=related here] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaC2PWfZJEg&feature=related are] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLiRBAKWEeU&feature=related some] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3bwu0dNCAU&feature=related more] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txM4ENohbmo&feature=related videos] for you to consider.  Bear in mind that Taj is considered the best Mewtwo in the world.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 15:36, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
:Ok first of all, that was the worlds best Falcon (SS)! Second of all, it was pretty even and Mewtwo got some good combos on Falcon! Third of all, we didn't say Mewtwo was better than Falcon, we only said he should be in middle tier! And forth of all, even though Falco has really gimping problem, he is still considered good, when you guys argue over Mewtwo's weaknesses which aren't that much, so stop saying he sucks, because he doesn't, it's just your opinion! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 19:11, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
:Also, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVFZEGZvRn4 watch] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6z-3Cl202Y these][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aQ6YGX-vNs&feature=related if] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYhjriLt6k&feature=related you think Mewtwo is] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amZAeGBnlT8&feature=related bad!]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u89hqpmQwqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7F0BRX7u4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuuQCqvp_0s&feature=related
::So it's our opinion Mewtwo is a poor character? Well, it's also your opinion he's not. The difference is, we provided you with facts as to why Mewtwo is a poor character while you have yet to provide valid facts to support Mewtwo being a good character. What I find most flawed in your statement is you saying Mewtwo's weaknesses aren't that much. The fact of the matter is, Mewtwo has some maajor weaknesses that Mewtwo simply can't get around. About these weakness, you really don't think Mewtwo being the fourth largest character but only being a floaty lightweight is not a huge weakness? A character who is easy to hit, gets combo'd easily, and gets KO'd at such low percentages, you really don't see that as a major weakness? Considering how easy it is to rack up damage on Mewtwo and how quickly he gets KO'd, Mewtwo is arguable the easiest character to KO in ''Melee''. Then there's also Mewtwo's KO problems. The inability to KO is always a major problem, there's no way to sugarcoat it. What's worse for Mewtwo is that arguably his best finisher, the up throw, has its power based on falling speed. As a result, it's incapable of KOing the prominent fast fallers under 150% while these same fast fallers are capable of KOing Mewtwo under 100%, especially Fox and his u-smash, which can KO Mewtwo under 70%. So stop ignoring these massive weaknesses, any character who is so easy to KO yet has such difficulty earning KOs is going to find difficulty competing at any level of play. While Mewtwo may not be absolutely useless and I'll confidently say he's better than Kirby and Pichu, he is certainly not middle or even low tier, let alone being the 10th best character in the game. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 02:39, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
:Well Peach has weaknesses too and you guys always ignore them just because she is overrated! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 01:07, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
::Quality post right there...  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 02:57, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
:::What do you mean C. Hawk? [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 00:08, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
::::He was being sarcastic. Your comment basically said "I think this so you are wrong", instead of saying "I think this and these are the reasons why". Okay, so maybe you gave reasons in a previous comment, but the point is that you made a comment that acts as nothing but a waste of space. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 02:20, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
==Peach==  
==Peach==  
Serously? She was top tier and you lowered her to mid tier. Before, she was best Mario character, and you put Mario and Dr. Mario ahead of her. You guys aren't realizing what she can do and think her weaknesses are major, but they aren't, kay?--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 15:03, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Serously? She was top tier and you lowered her to mid tier. Before, she was best Mario character, and you put Mario and Dr. Mario below her. You guys aren't realizing what she can do and think her weaknesses are major, but they aren't, kay?--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 15:03, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
:We don't think that the weaknesses are major. We just think that the weaknesses are a little big for a high tier, thats all. [[User:Zeldasmash|Zeldasmash]] ([[User talk:Zeldasmash|talk]]) 15:43, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
::Ok, first of all she's high tier not top, and second of all, Peach is really slow and floaty, and third of all, she has poor range and some laggy attacks. So instead of having a princess in the high tier, why don't you guys have someone that's a '''REAL''' fighter like Samus and Ganondorf? [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 00:11, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
::::Maybe everyone on SmashWiki should have to pay a dollar so we can pay some black guy in some ghetto to kill this fucking fag<!---->got.  Then stupid people will shut the fuck up when it comes to shit they know nothing about.  [[Special:Contributions/174.136.39.59|174.136.39.59]] 02:55, July 15, 2010 (UTC)  <span style="color:red">'''--User was temp banned for this post'''</span>
 
:::A character's profession/abilities/personality/fanbase/etc has absolutely nothing to do with how good they are as a Smasher. You should also remember that we don't make the tier lists, the guys on SmashBoards with over a million hours of combined Smash Bros. experience do. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 02:20, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

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