Editing Forum:Next character prediction?

{{Forumheader|Smash 4 Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->

Well since Olimar was revealed before the Pikmin 3 launch, think we might have another character reveal the same way? I mean, we've got Sonic Lost World launching in October with the 2014 Winter Games just a month after it. So I imagine Sonic could be revealed around that time. Diddy Kong for Tropical Freeze as well maybe. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 19:00, 2 August 2013 (EDT)
:I'm not sure the whole "reveal a character for Smash to promote a new release" thing will be a regular occurrence; they didn't usually do that for Brawl. That being said, I expect to see an FE character reveal in the near future as that is the biggest series not to get a character yet. If we're going with what you said as well, X and Y are a couple months away and a Pokémon character would be perfect (Mewthree, anyone?) <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 19:12, 2 August 2013 (EDT)
:If they do a similar "Launch & reveal", I imagine Wind Waker HD & Toon Link.'''''[[User:HavocReaper48|<span style="color:GOLDENROD; font-family:envirod;">--HavocReaper</span>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<span style="color:GOLD; font-family:envirod;">48</span>]]''''' 01:22, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
::Don't Count on it. In the trailer he was seen as an unplayable character on the spirit tracks stage. I wouldn't expect him.[[User:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:orange">TheAtomic</span>]][[User talk:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:red">Fire</span>]] 22:34, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
[[Category: Smash 4 Talk]]
::: Falco, Wolf, and C. Falcon are also background characters in their stages, but that doesn't stop them from being playable. Besides, Toon Link from SSBB is based on Wind Waker, which is a different character from Spirit Tracks. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 13:26, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
::::Good point.[[User:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:orange">TheAtomic</span>]][[User talk:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:red">Fire</span>]] [[File:BluePichu.png]] 20:50, 4 August 2013 (EDT)

Regarding Toon Link, I initially thought he was a lock, due to the "Toon series" of Zelda games still going on after Brawl, and Toon Link having good amount of popularity. Though when thinking about it farther, I do think he's one of the most at risk, due to there being a sizeable amount of people complaining about there being "two Links", and that while definitely not a full clone, he's still the most cloned character in Brawl. And with the massive decloning they did in Brawl after the clone complaints in Melee, and people ''still'' bitching about there being "too many clones in Brawl" (thus they will continue to reduce clonage), combined with the aforementioned "two Links" issue, I think Toon Link will be one of the first characters they go to when they have to cut someone. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:07, 4 August 2013 (EDT)

I'm expecting one character revealed per month along with a stage or two each month. Since Olimar's reveal to coincide with Pikmin 3's Japan release, I'm expecting some characters to be revealed with their game releases as well. Say, Wonder Red with The Wonderful 101, Mewtwo with Pokemon X & Y, and Sonic with Sonic Lost Worlds. --<span style="background-color: black; border:3px solid blue; border-radius:10px 30px 30px 10px;">[[User:Lasifer|ﾚ∆ㄅ]]</span> <span style="background-color: #000000; box-shadow: 0px 0px 10px #461B7E; border-radius:10px 10px 10px 10px;"> [[File:MaskedManSignatureSprite.PNG|Where da Las at?|link=User talk:Lasifer]]</span> 16:08, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
[[Category: Smash 4 Talk]]

Heh, I didn't think they'd show off Luigi so soon. And here I thought they wouldn't show any of unlockable characters from the past Smash Bros. I guess it wouldn't be much of a stretch to announce Toon Link when WW HD draws near. Then again, Luigi could've been just the exception.  [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 12:57, 7 August 2013 (EDT)
:What if instead of including Toon Link or Young Link, they included Retro Link from A Link Between Worlds? <span style="font-family:AR JULIAN; font-size:12pt">[[User:ChuckNorris24|<span style="color:brown">Chuck</span>]][[User talk:ChuckNorris24|<span style="color:brown">Norris</span>]]</span>[[File:24.png|23px]]  08:57, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

I expect Girahim and Magnus, and Bowser Jr. seems likly. [[User:NutsBazooka|NutsBazooka]] ([[User talk:NutsBazooka|talk]]) 14:01, 17 August 2013 (EDT)
:I'm not expecting Ghirahim, he was just a one-shot. I dunno if there's gonna be a second KI character, and if there is, it's probably Palutena or Hades. I'm unsure about Bowser jr but I do think he is the most likely new Mario character if we get one. [[User:Scr7|<font style="color:#0000FF">S</font>]][[User talk:Scr7|<font style="color:#7F7FFF">c</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Scr7|<font style="color:#00FFFF">r</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Scr7|<font style="color:#FF7F00">7</font>]][[File:Wolfsig.png|19px|link=Special:PrefixIndex/User:Scr7]] 15:36, 18 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Yeah Ghirahim is the new Zant in terms of character requests. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 15:41, 19 August 2013 (EDT)
Well what do you know. Toon Link is in after all, right when I kind of predicted that he'd be reveal near WW HD's release date (it's out only in downloads). I'm guess next month's reveal will go to a Pokemon character and/or another veteran character that doesn't have any upcoming games. Maybe Mewtwo will be revealed? I expect Sonic to shown either late October or sometime in November to promote Lost World and/or the new Olympic Games. Also, isn't it a bit odd how they revealed Luigi and Toon Link even though they were unlockables in the last game? I wonder if they're doing away with unlockable characters or just having most veterans starter characters this time around. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 07:53, 26 September 2013 (EDT)
:Or Sakurai figured there's no point in trying to hide the unlockable characters this time around, so hey might as well show them to help promote. Or Toon Link and Luigi won't be unlockable this time. I'm pretty certain they wouldn't do away with unlockable characters, since it's been a tradition in every game and unlocking everyone is something a lot of players look forward to. 

:Regarding Toon Link, hopefully his confirmation is an indication that they're hardly cutting anyone, and that a PT + ICs cut will be enough. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:15, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

:Also, regarding next reveal, I think it would be either Lucario or Mewtwo (or both?) to help promote X and Y. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:18, 26 September 2013 (EDT)
:: Yeah you're probably right about. I guess that also means your journal about characters getting cut spot on again. Well maybe. And yes, I'd like to see both Mewtwo and Lucario as well. The SSB4 boards at GameFAQs are having at meltdown, it's ridiculous. I am not one for cuts, but Snake is the least deserving character to come back seeing as how severly lacking the MGS games are on Nintendo systems, plus neither upcoming MGS game is coming out for the Wii U. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 00:57, 27 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Really, the only characters deserving of a cut are the PT (for being a huge waste of space that can't be a decent character and the fact you could replace him with three viable solo characters; who would rather have PT over Mewtwo and two other characters of their choice?), and the ICs (for being perhaps the most unpopular and definitely the least relevant character on the roster, as well as being a character whose "2 in 1" gimmick causes a ton of glitches and other gameplay issues). I would put Snake way over them in "deservedness". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:32, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
:::: Yes, I was thinking PT could face being cut due to his scrappy mechanic. The IC are in danger because of the issues Sakurai is having with the 3DS version. My main gripe with Snake has to do with the fact that neither of the upcoming Metal Gear games are coming out for the Wii U. Not only that, but the only Metal Gear that came out for a Nintendo system since Brawl's release was a MGS3 port for the 3DS while the other systems got a HD collection. Then again, Sakurai and Kojima are buddies, so who knows? [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 05:04, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
::::[http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-might-not-release-at-the-same-time Well I have some bad news for you then.] [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 16:13, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
::::: Yes I know about that. Hence why I mentioned the ICs being in the danger zone of being cut right now. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 17:31, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
::::::Which also means that Sakurai wants to put them in the game. And considering how he values character uniqueness, I think the ICs qualify as a unique fighter and will probably return. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 18:59, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Nearly everyone will get tested with in development and by all account he "wants" everyone to return, this means nothing. What will happen though is each character has a certain priority, and when a cut has to be made, those at the bottom will get axed first (hence Mewtwo not returning in Brawl). Now with what was said already (relatively unpopular and significant irrelevance, gameplay issues, and now significant issues in just making them work), the ICs are definitely a lower priory character and are thus at serious risk for a cut. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 02:19, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Called it! I knew Sonic would be revealed either this month or next month! Now if only someone could ask Roger Craig Smith on his Twitter account to confirm whether he's voice Sonic for SSB4. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 20:26, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

I'm gonna call Mewtwo the next one. We've had nothing but veterans after Day 1, Mewtwo would be slightly more refreshing than your average veteran. The other likely XY celebration would be Pokémon Trainer, but I'm still going for Mewtwo, now we know unlockability probably means nothing. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 21:34, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, I'm getting that feeling too (like I said above). Sakurai already he's [http://wiiudaily.com/2013/06/mew-two-in-super-smash-bros/ considering Mewtwo for SSB4]. Of the cut characters, Mewtwo was obviously quite controversial given he was the only non-clone character to be cut. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 22:00, 1 October 2013 (EDT)
: Well that isn't bad news for me since I'd like to see them return. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 22:19, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

I wonder when the next character will be announced. No Pokémon got confirmed to celebrate X and Y (except Xerneas, who is not confirmed to be playable). Who do you think would be likely to be revealed in November? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 21:12, 6 November 2013 (EST)
:I still expect a Pokemon really soon, as beside XY, it's Nintendo's biggest series and they still only have one character confirmed for it. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 10:16, 7 November 2013 (EST)

Hmm...we have to think. Weren't there TWO characters announced during the same month, previously? So, in a sense, Marth may '''not''' be the only "New Challenger" during November. So, looking at this, we may have 6 possible candidates from the Zelda series; Zelda, Ganondorf, Ghirahim, Vaati, Dark Link or even Yuga. But I don't know if they will be in, but we got to wait and see. [[User:Requiem fo Ice|Requiem fo Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem fo Ice|talk]]) 22:36, 9 November 2013 (EST)

:I don't know about Ghirahim, Vaati, or Yuga although Dark Link might make it as a clone of Link. Zelda is sure to come and Ganondorf is also likely. [[User:FireMario1534|FireMario1534]] ([[User talk:FireMario1534|talk]]) 20:46, 14 November 2013 (EST)

Xerneas doesn't make much sense as a stage hazard beause he is in a 3DS only game but was shown to appear in the Wii U version.[[User:NutsBazooka|NutsBazooka]] ([[User talk:NutsBazooka|talk]]) 03:58, 10 November 2013 (EST)

With the announcement of Rosalina being playable in ''3D World'', I'm thinking she could get a ''Smash 4'' confirmation for that game's release. '''[[User:JamesHeart123|<font color="blue">James</font>]]'''[[File:JH-Heartless.png|15px|link=Special:Contributions/JamesHeart123]]'''[[User talk:JamesHeart123|<font color="orange">Heart</font>]]''' 21:00, 13 November 2013 (EST)
:I do agree. Rosalina will be the newest '''playable mainstream''' Mario character to appear in a major title. She has a much bigger chance to appear in Sm4sh now. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:57, 14 November 2013 (EST)
:I also have to agree with you that Rosalina is a pretty solid choice for being playable as well. Being a important character in Mario Galaxy, she seems notable to the main series. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="darkorange">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:MewtwoMS.png]] The N64 18:05, 14 November 2013 (EST)
::She is also a female character, which is another reason Sakurai may add her. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 20:09, 14 November 2013 (EST)

I hope Meta Knight comes back. But if he is, I really hope they nerf him because he's just plain broken in SSBB. Also, Bowser Jr. might be a possible candidate. His Final Smash would be something related to paint or something like that. And I agree with the Rosalina part. She definetely has shot of making it. [[User:FireMario1534|FireMario1534]] ([[User talk:FireMario1534|talk]]) 20:52, 14 November 2013 (EST)
:On the Meta Knight thing; no, just...no. He's most likely going to get cut more than anything; and IMO, the strategies and techniques used with him are just too predictable. And on Bowser Jr., he's definitely not going to be playable. He may be an Assist Trophy, but nothing more.[[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 18:21, 15 November 2013 (EST)
:: Why would Meta Knight be cut? They'll just nerf him just like Fox in Brawl. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 18:40, 15 November 2013 (EST)
::Meta Knight is extremely likely to come back. He's also extremely likely to be nerfed, as Magiciandude said. And I'd say Bowser Jr. has a chance to be playable. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 03:53, 16 November 2013 (EST)
Welp, we got Rosalina and Zelda was announced on the release date of Link Between Worlds in Japan. I guess that leaves a DK character for Tropical Freeze. I'm personally hoping Shulk from Xenoblade will be playable. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 15:31, 26 December 2013 (EST)

I think that Sora should be a newcomer; reasons why include that he's very popular, has a lot of attacks that could be used and has been on Nintendo games. And as for another character that could be a newcomer, it'd possibly be Ghirahim. But I think that the character that will get in next will probably be Falco or Wolf. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 20:54, 26 December 2013 (EST)
: Well there are two major problems I see with Sora getting in. As far as I know, Disney owns the rights to the Kingdom Hearts characters so it would be too much of a hassle. Even if Disney didn't own Sora, I doubt he would be get in over a Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest character. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 22:56, 26 December 2013 (EST)
::That is unless Disney and Square Enix decide to release Kingdom Hearts III on the Wii U. We already have Disney Infinity for Wii U, so it's a possibility Disney and SE may put KH3 on the Wii U and Sora in SSB4. And as for Final Fantasy, it's a definite no go unless you go before 7; Dragon Quest, I don't know.
::And if Namco should get a representative, it should actually be a Soulcalibur character if Soulcalibur II HD is ported to Wii U (correct me if I'm wrong about this info). It worked with Toon Link for Wind Waker HD, so if SCII HD is put on Wii U, then surely we may have any of those characters in SSB4.
::In other characters, I want Ghirahim or Ridley to be in the game as a character. Now Bowser Jr. will definitely '''NOT''' get in as a playable character. We already have Rosalina as the Mario newcomer. And on other characters (probably) not getting in, Vaati, Waluigi, Toad, Pac-Man and Shadow. But then again, Nintendo may surprise us. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 23:28, 26 December 2013 (EST)
Woah! I didn't think they'd reveal Lucario so soon. Here's hoping Mewtwo comes back as well! [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 02:34, 31 January 2014 (EST)
::Good news, everyone. Diddy Kong is finally confirmed on the day Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze is out!

== Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong Confirmation ==

So Little Mac is confirmed today. Do Diddy and/or Dixie still have a chance to appear in this game?
:Diddy is guaranteed to come back, and Dixie is one of the most likely potential newcomers, Little Mac being revealed today instead of either of them is meaningless. Sakurai has shown before at the Pokemon X/Y releases that the "reveal related character to coincide with Japanese release of a new game" is not a hard rule, and that he likes to swerve people (and since Little Mac was pretty much the most expected newcomer, revealing him today was a way to make his reveal somewhat surprising). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:00, 13 February 2014 (EST)
::Well he was surprised since today is the DK TF release in Japan but no DK characters have been revealed. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 23:05, 13 February 2014 (EST)
:::I hope Diddy Kong will be confirmed by Friday in honor of Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze. If it doesn't happen, I'll be so upset! <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:‎71.81.41.145|‎71.81.41.145]] ([[User talk:‎71.81.41.145|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/‎71.81.41.145|contribs]]) 20:56, 17 February 2014 (EST)</small>
::::BTW, characters usually get confirmed on the Japanese release date of a certain game or a Japanese anniversary. This Friday is the US release of the Donkey Kong game however. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 22:04, 17 February 2014 (EST)
:::::I know, but Little Mac stole Diddy's chance! I know Diddy will appear! He will, won't he?<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:71.81.41.145|71.81.41.145]] ([[User talk:71.81.41.145|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.81.41.145|contribs]]) 22:35, 17 February 2014 (EST)</small>
::::::Well I don't know yet, there's going to be an upcoming Mario Kart game coming up though, and please sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> I'm tired of adding unsigned templates, [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 22:40, 17 February 2014 (EST)
:::::::Don't forget there's an upcoming Mario Golf game.

== Likely Predictions ==
EDIT: Okay, since apparently you didn't like my previous predictions, I decided to re-write this with better predictions for you. Anything with bold & italics are changes in statements for the characters.

*Ghirahim - In short, Ghirahim would be the best chosen representative for the Zelda series, as his moveset could consist of one or both of his swords, his 3 forms and the knives he produces. He would most likely be a heavyweight character, but a fast and powerful one, nonetheless.
*Palutena - The most popular Kid Icarus to be a newcomer and female character, her moveset could consist of not only her heavenly attacks, but also her staff and shield. She would probably be a middleweight character due to her shield, staff and clothing, but she would be rather floaty and well-balanced in power.
*Krystal - The best choice for a new Star Fox representative, and another female. Her attacks would consist of her and her staff, thus not making her a clone/semi-clone of Fox, like Falco is. She would be a lightweight, at best, but she wouldn't fall fast, and would have moderated attack speed and damage.
*'''Leon S. Kennedy''' - If Snake is not to be in Smash Bros. 4, this is the best possible substitute. Leon has near-flawless knife skills, and would be fully packed with grenades, the rocket launcher, grenade launcher, PRL-412, special rocket launcher and a variety of other techniques. Of course, he could have a moveset distant from Snake's, too. He would be a middleweight character with good air and ground game, while only using his knife for most of his normal moves.
*'''Lloyd Irving''' - Not as popular as Pac-Man, but second to him, nonetheless. Lloyd would be fitted with both of his swords, and due to his appearances in various Nintendo games, he would be a very likely choice. His moveset, consisted of his swords, would be used with all of his attacks from the Tales of Symphonia game, especially Demon Fang, Tiger Blade, Grave Blade, Sonic Thrust, Tempest, Rising Falcon, etc. He already has an arsenal of moves that could be put in the game. He would be a lightweight, floaty character with great air game and balanced ground game.
*Ridley - Contrary to what I said earlier, it would be possible to put Ridley in the game, but he'd have to be shortened drastically, should he be playable. His moveset would have to consist of all of his attacks in the games, plus a few more moves if needed. He would be a rather large target, but would be light-heavyweight, with five total jumps and a great possible recovery. ''CONFIRMED TO BE A STAGE ELEMENT IN SOME MANNER AS SEEN IN THE NINTENDO DIRECT ON APRIL 8, 2014!''
*Waluigi - Like Ridley, it would be possible to put Waluigi in the game. But he would have to use new moves of which we haven't seen before, so it's going to be tough to determine what moves he could have. However, he'd lean towards the "tall-but-light" category, meaning it would be easy to knock him out, but he'd be able to recover better. In terms of attacks, he would have a great ground game with a moderate air game. '''''Like I said prior to this statement, he was unlikely to play as to begin with. Seeing as 1) he never appeared in a mainstream Mario game and 2) there's no current release date for any Mario or Wario game that would confirm him as playable, he is not playable. Luckily, we still have him for an Assist Trophy.'''''
*Chrom - Chrom would be an excellent choice for the FE series, should neither Roy nor Ike nor both return to the game. His moveset would be a variant of Marth's in some way, but with some drastically different moves if needed. Chrom's weapon, however, wouldn't have any damage multiplier or divider anywhere. He'd be a balanced air/ground game character who is a heavyweight rather than middleweight.
*'''Pac-Man''' - While it would be near-impossible for him not to have a generic move, nonetheless, Pac-Man would be the number one Namco choice for the games. He would be a lightweight, floaty character with amazing air game, while bad ground game; i.e. the opposite of Little Mac.
*King K. Rool - Like Ridley, he would also have to be shortened drastically, being 2.2x the size of DK. His moveset could consist of his body or him using his boxing abilities. He would most definitely be a super-heavyweight, possibly heavier than Bowser and King Dedede, and he would have amazing ground game, but bad air game, all the while being hard to knock out of the arena.

Now, I want to hear your opinions, and who you think will be possible for the next Super Smash Bros. game. I didn't intend to let it be this large, but then again, these are my predictions. I want to hear yours. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 00:11, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:Most of your " very obviously not making it" newcomers and "cut veterans" is so horribly wrong, and most of your predicted newcomers are just so awful, I don't know where to start. I'm certain at least half of these predictions are gonna be so wrong. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:30, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:You also realise Castlevania is a Konami series and not a Nintendo series? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:34, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:I also remembered that Sakurai said that he won't allow more than three third party characters. You have way to many third parties on this list. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 00:55, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:Oh, for one more thing, your rationale for Pyramid Head is the series needs more villains, but then say K. Rool and Ridley, two main antagonists from big underrepresented Nintendo series, are "very obviously not making it in". Like what? In what world would Sakurai snub these two heavily requested main antagonists for a third party villain from a not that big and very non-Nintedo oriented franchise? Also, for your "there has been some Silent Hill games on Nintendo", there has been only exactly one [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Hill:_Shattered_Memories Silent Hill game] for a Nintendo console, that didn't sell particularly well, and Pyramid Head isn't even in (so he never appeared on a Nintendo console). This list really seems more of a "I want this" rather than actual rational predictions. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:20, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:I did make a mistake, there was another Nintendo Silent Hill...which was a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Hill:_Play_Novel#Adaptations obscure visual novel] released on the GBA only in Japan, which also didn't have Pyramid Head on it. So yeah, even Metal Gear has had a significantly greater Nintendo presence and absolutely no Nintendo presence for Pyramid Head. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:31, 23 February 2014 (EST)
::Oh yeah, that's right. Well, I guess Harry or Heather Mason would be a better choice than PH, would they? As such, I deleted him from the possibles. But enough about that, now I am going to list WHY the "newcomer-type: characters I listed that won't be in, won't.
::First off, Dixie Kong, Bowser Jr. and Waluigi. Now, as we all know, Diddy Kong and Little Mac were confirmed on the two days DK:TF was released in the respective regions. As such, it would be impossible for Dixie Kong to be a fully playable character; there are possibilities, however, that she would be an alternate or assist, much like the Male Wii Fit Trainer. As for Bowser Jr. and Waluigi, the new Mario rep, Rosalina and Luma, takes their place. Rosalina seemed improbable at first, while Bowser Jr. and Waluigi were more wanted than her, but Nintendo decided to pick Rosalina and not those two.
::Now for Ridley, Porky, Demise and King K. Rool. You may think they would be good additions, right? Wrong. First off, they would be '''massive''' in size. They would all have to be bigger than Bowser, or the comparable size to Giga Bowser. They would be too large a target each, and way too heavy. Before you say, "Oh, they can be shortened.", think about the size of Bowser; he's the largest character in height. Demise is 1.5x bigger than Bowser, and King K. Rool is twice the size of him; and Bowser's height is solely taken from New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Taking this to account, Porky and Ridley would be 3 and 4 times the size of Bowser, respectively. Now that that's out of the way, attacks. All 3 would have too complicated or terrible movesets; they would be the same speed as Ganondorf from Brawl, if not slower. And finally, none of them would have a decent Final Smash, as their Final Smashes would probably be slow, as well; sure they could one hit kill, but they'd have to be extremely slow. Also haven't you taken into account that they'd probably walk like Bowser from Brawl, and have terrible running speed; a bit slower than Ganondorf's.
::Chrom and Lucina are highly improbable, since their attack styles would be clones or semi-clones of Marth's. They'd have little to no originality, and they just seem too generic of fighters. Also, there's a higher probability that Roy or Ike would return.
::We know little to nothing about Yuga's abilities, other than turning characters into a painting, turning himself into graffiti, and just all of YuGanon's attacks. I mean, Bowser Jr. would be a better choice than Yuga, but that still won't happen. I won't even go into Vaati, who would have a Zelda-esque moveset.
::The only thing about Miis that would be possible is if they were background characters. If they were playable, they would have a generic Mario moveset and be a waste of time and space for the game.
::Now we go into the Sega characters, Shadow and Tails. Look, I'll be blunt, despite popularity, they just won't be in. First of all, that'd make two Sega characters; that would mean that Snake would be impossible to be brought back whatsoever, should there be a limit of three 3rd party characters. Plus, Shadow would have a similar moveset to Sonic, and Tails...he would be terrible at the game.
::Now for the Square Enix characters, Sora, Cloud and Geno. Despite them all being on Nintendo consoles, they wouldn't fit. Cloud started off on Playstation, first of all, and Sora is more Playstation; especially since Kingdom Hearts III will appear on Playstation 4 (and XBOX One), and not Wii U. As for Geno, he appeared in one, ONE Nintendo game. He is also owned by Square Enix, a company that goes mainly on Playstation. Plus, we have not seen a single Geno reference in any Mario game since Legend of the Seven Stars. He is just like the Tails Doll, a one game character. Sorry, but Geno...he is not going to be in.
::Finally, Zero, Goku and Pac-Man. Okay, let's start with Zero; one, like I explained about Shadow, he'd make it impossible for Snake to be back in, should the limit be 3 3rd parties. Two, he would be a copy of Link, and three, we don't need two Capcom representatives '''from the same series.''' Now onto Goku; he's 4th Party, enough said. And for Pac-Man...do we really want a generic Mario/Kirby clone? Seriously, his moveset would be a copy of Mario and Kirby's, leaving little to no imagination.
::Now to end this, Sakurai only specified that there'd be three third party characters '''IN BRAWL''', but he never specified the limit in the upcoming Smash game, meaning we could have 4 or 5 third party representatives, or even the whole damn cast of Street Fighter II; though in the SFII cast's case, they'd most likely all would be Assist Trophies. But I still find it highly unlikely that the ones I described above will make it. I'm not trolling/trying to troll, I'm just trying to state my opinion about the characters.
::Now, who wants to hear something interesting about the 3DS versions of Link and Zelda? [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 18:48, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:::Everything you just said has no basis whatsoever in any sort of rationality, filled with all sorts of false (and at times hypocritical) assertions and misinformation that show you are seriously misinformed and have no idea what you're talking about (thinking Castlevania was Nintendo, thinking Silent Hill has a real presence on Nintendo, saying Rosalina was "less wanted" than Bowser Jr. and Waluigi when she's far more popular, saying X IS TOO BIG!, Y WOULD BE A CLONE OF Z!, etc.). I don't bash many of the predictions others make, but I guarantee most of these "predictions" will end up completely wrong. Seriously, these "predictions" are as bad as the ballot someone tried submitting to my prediction game that was filled with a bunch of anime characters. 

:::I won't do a big whole argument about this or dissect each of these, as I prefer to let my own predictions being revealed as correct speak for themselves (and I would also prefer others to not make WoTs about this and let the eventual failure of these predictions speak for how terrible they are). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:19, 23 February 2014 (EST)
::::Sad, I thought you were smarter than this. You see, the first party characters I listed are the only reasonable characters to be in the game. Any others would have no fitting relation to the game other than being Assists, alternate costumes or bosses; making them characters would be downright improbable and they would be god awful. As for the third parties I listed as reasonable characters, Leon and Lloyd would make sense as fighters, seeing as they would have a really great moveset for each and not a clone-type moveset.

::::And as for the Street Fighter II characters, I say they'd most likely be Assist trophies, if not playable characters. The fact of the matter is, is that Dixie Kong and K. Rool won't be in because of Diddy Kong and Little Mac, and no other DK event will happen anytime within SSB4's release, Ridley and Porky are just too large to be playable characters, and are more likely bosses, Chrom, Lucina and Miis would be generic clones/semi-clones and Roy or Ike are more likely to be back than the confirmation of Chrom and Lucina. I am stating my inquiries on cold, hard facts, not popular opinion. I mean, instead of Yoshi for the new Yoshi game, we could have C. Falcon or Ness to be brought back. Look what happened with Little Mac and DK:TF. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 19:52, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:::::"''I am stating my inquiries on cold, hard facts''"

:::::"Castlevania is Nintendo and needs to be represented" "There have been Silent Hill games and Pyramid Head on Nintendo" "Bowser Jr. and Waluigi were more requested than Rosalina"

:::::Yup, some cold, hard facts. 

:::::And as I repeat, you are grossly misinformed yet again and there isn't the slightest bit of rationality or logic in your "predictions", as well as a gross amount of hyperbole and flatout false assertions. As I said though, there's no point in arguing this with you, as Sakurai's reveals in due time will show the wrongness in this, and no matter what I say, you're gonna keep asserting "X IS TOO BIG!" "Y WOULD BE A CLONE OF Z!", etc. etc.

:::::For something serious though, between this and your statements about competitive Smash, you seem to suffer from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Dunning-Kruger effect], and I think it would do you good to not post these big WoTs on these pages so much. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:53, 23 February 2014 (EST)
::::::Okay, how about I redo the damn list? Would that make you happy?

::::::Also, I wonder, how come you haven't even bashed at Leon S. Kennedy or Lloyd, for that matter? Surely, you must have something against them that I'd love to hear. Also, I want to fight you in SSBB, if that can be arranged? You know, to prove I don't have Dunning-Kruger effect? [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 22:26, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:::::::Sure, I'll wifi you, just tell me whenever you're available. Just don't pull a Smash Master. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:42, 23 February 2014 (EST)
::::::::Okay, I'll set a date around 5:00 PM Tomorrow, would that be good for you? Also, let's go best 2-of-3 with 4 stock, no time, no items. How will that fare for you? [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 23:59, 23 February 2014 (EST)
:::::::::I might be available at that time tomorrow. 4 stocks is too much for Brawl, 3 is the standard, and I will play until whenever. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:14, 24 February 2014 (EST)
::::::::::I'd quite like a Brawl in the near-future as well. I want to decide which is better out of my Mario and Toon Link, and also try out my new R.O.B. I won't set a time, I'll just hope to happen across you on IRC. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 11:14, 24 February 2014 (EST)

== Yoshi ==

6 days after this is posted, Yoshi's New Island for Nintendo 3DS will be released in America. That has lead me to believe that Yoshi will take the next confirmation. I havent seen much Yoshi around here, anyone agrees? [[User:ViciousViridian|VICIOUS VIRIDIAN!!!!!!]] ([[User talk:ViciousViridian|talk]]) 19:07, 8 March 2014 (EST)
:Likely, since after the Diddy Kong reveal, Sakurai states that he'll acknowledge international releases. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 19:22, 8 March 2014 (EST)
:At this point I've given up on trying to predict the "next reveal"; Sakurai has swerved us many times now on the reveal dates of characters, it's clear he is revealing intentionally to catch people offguard, with him having gone by obvious dates by revealing a different character than expected (revealing Little Mac instead of a Donkey Kong character on DKC:TF's Japanese release) or not revealing anyone (showing Wii Fit Trainer's ass instead of a playable Pokemon on the Pokemon X/Y releases, and then poking fun at it while just showing Xerneas' antlers a week later), or he reveals characters on a random or unexpected date. So far Dedede was the only character reveal that most people got right (and Sonic's to a lesser degree, though since he was third party there was some uncertainty about him coming back). All in all, I think Yoshi is likely to be the next reveal, if only to get an obvious character out of the way, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai swerves us again with a different character reveal or a complete no reveal. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:44, 8 March 2014 (EST)
:Somewhat as per OmegaTyrant, Sakurai may instead reveal a character like Captain Falcon or Ness just to catch people off guard, then reveal Yoshi. But he may trick us again with a newcomer or another Melee veteran (like Sheik). [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 20:52, 8 March 2014 (EST)
::I'd just like to add that, when Yoshi wasn't revealed on the release date of ''Yoshi's New Island'', I had a bit of a mini-rant on a number of forums I went to, going on about how even though it was the American and European release date, it seemed like the most logical time to reveal Yoshi.  And since Yoshi is a given when it comes to being in this game, it's not a matter of if he'll be revealed, but when.  But one guy was all like "Why are you complaining?  Sakurai doesn't have to tell us anything about the game.  Stop acting so entitled and get over yourself."  That's true to some degree, but then again, I kind of feel that Sakurai and Nintendo are parcially to blame, revealing at least 2 characters per month at the rate they've been going, not to mention revealing characters on certain dates.  On the one hand, I find it fun to pinpoint who would be revealed and when, but on the other hand, I don't like being swung for a loop like this... - [[User:BrawlMatt202|BrawlMatt202]] ([[User talk:BrawlMatt202|talk]]) 10:42, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

== Snake ==

[http://nintendoeverything.com/kojima-wants-snake-in-the-new-smash-bros-but-its-not-likely-to-happen/ Doesn't seem likley he's coming back]. I'm not surprised, given how MGSV is appearing on every console except the Wii U. Sure MGSIV didn't come out for the Wii, but it's not like the Wii could handle the game anyway. I honestly think Snake being in Brawl was just a one time favor because he couldn't appear in Melee. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 20:08, 13 March 2014 (EDT)
:The likelihood of Snake returning is dependent mostly on Sakurai, and Kojima essentially stated in this article that they'd like him to return. They might be doubtful that Sakurai would except their offer, and that doubt is certainly merited given Kojima had to beg for Snake's inclusion in ''Brawl.'' I don't think Sakurai would mind having Snake back in as he's immensely popular in the Smash and video game communities (almost to the degree of such characters as Mario and Sonic; his notability at least comes close to theirs). One of the problems I see is that Sakurai has [http://kotaku.com/dont-expect-a-lot-of-third-party-characters-in-the-nex-513203533 stated earlier] on that there wouldn't be that many third party characters in SSB4. Since I assume that means there'll only be three 3rd party characters tops and Sonic and Mega Man are already confirmed, I think Pac-Man has priority over Snake given that Namco is involved in SSB4's development. I wouldn't count Snake out but at the same time I don't think he's a shoo-in. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 20:48, 13 March 2014 (EDT)
:Should Snake be confirmed cut, this could give a free slot to another character, even if he/she is from Capcom, but not from the same series. This would make either Leon S. Kennedy or Chris Redfield representatives IF:
*Sakurai confirms only 3 third parties for SSB4, which is unlikely, since there would probably be up to 5.
*Sakurai reconfirms Snake as a veteran.
*Sakurai says that there can't be two characters from the same company.
:That's all I really got here. But I think that even though Namco is running operations on SSB4 alongside Nintendo, it's more likely we get a character like Jun from ''Tekken'' or Lloyd from ''Tales of Symphonia''. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:01, 14 March 2014 (EDT)
:: Sakurai already said that he's uncomfortable about adding characters from other fighting games and even Tekken producer Katsuhiro Harada isn't too open to the idea [http://www.insidegamingdaily.com/2013/07/25/smash-bros-wii-u3ds-wont-have-a-story-mode-or-tekken-characters/ Source 1] and [http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/10/harada-pulling-back-on-idea-of-tekken-characters-in-new-smash/ Source 2]. On Tales, Tales producer Hideo Baba says he's like to see a Tales character playable but has not been approached by Nintendo [http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblogocio.net%2Fhideo-baba-quiere-personajes-de-tales-of-en-smash-bros-no-66874%2F Source 3]. I'm only expecting to see Pac-Man even if I prefer other Namco characters. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 18:14, 14 March 2014 (EDT)
:::It's really odd that every time I mention Leon S. Kennedy, no one even responds to it. Kind of makes me wonder why? [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 23:06, 14 March 2014 (EDT)
::::Probably because we already know that he's very unlikely to make it in to SSB4. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The EarthBound 23:29, 14 March 2014 (EDT)
:::::Also, OT did mention in the previous section that characters are usually revealed without warning. So usually, they get confirmed when there's little to no hype for them. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 23:42, 14 March 2014 (EDT)
::::::Well, I've seen little hype for Leon, mostly because people think that he's another Capcom character and is unlikely to get in. Taking in Sakurai's randomness and the fact Snake may not return, Leon S. Kennedy is the close second to Snake. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 14:27, 15 March 2014 (EDT)

As I said elsewhere about this;

"Hmm, I think this supports Snake coming back. The roster has certainly been finalised a while ago by now, and Kojima would certainly have contacted Sakurai about it a long time ago and would know for sure if Snake was in or not. Plus, if Snake wasn't in, there would be no real reason for Kojima to give a generic non-answer that skirts around the question."

"I also recall someone from Sonic Team saying essentially the same thing as this ("we don't know, but we would like it") when he was asked if Sonic was coming back."

So yeah, if anything, I would say this supports Snake coming back. And also, I completely called it above about Sakurai swerving with no Yoshi reveal :| <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:46, 17 March 2014 (EDT)
: I blame your Tyranitar for scaring Yoshi away. >=( No but seriously, you've been pretty much track on just about everything since the game started on development. As for the Sonic thought, the guy said he can't say because it's up to Nintendo whereas Kojima outright states Snake is not likely to come back. Of course, Kojima isn't known for being truthful...  [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 19:25, 17 March 2014 (EDT)
:Yoshi's reveal will probably coincide with the Japanese release of ''Yoshi's New Island'' (it's not out in Japan yet) just as Zelda's was with the Japanese release of ''A Link Between Worlds.'' Little Mac's reveal coincided with the 30th anniversary of ''Punch Out!!'' (the very first arcade came out in Japan in February of 1984), so Diddy was placed aside for a little bit and revealed on the same day ''Tropical Freeze'' came out in North America and Europe ([https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKllbS-s3Q 1]). However, both ''Punch Out!!'' and ''Tropical Freeze'' (Japanese release) were honored with SSB4 artwork of a "rematch" between Little Mac and Donkey Kong (since Donkey was in the Wii version of ''Punch Out!!'' as a secret boss). <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 19:32, 17 March 2014 (EDT)
::You know, if Sakurai reveals Yoshi on the Japanese release of ''Yoshi's New Island'' in Japan, well, we'd have to wait until the Summer release (since the date is indeterminate other than it will release in Summer). [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 03:24, 18 March 2014 (EDT)
:IMO, I personally thought this meant that Snake wouldn't return, since I interpretted it as Kojima legitimately not knowing if he was in it or not.  Considering he went directly to Sakurai and asked him to include Snake to being with, not to mention he designed the Shadow Moses Island stage, I would think he'd be more involved then this.  Not to mention, I don't see the point in saying if Snake straight-up wasn't returning.  I mean, Kojima's even crazier then Sakurai when it comes to messing with people's expectations, so of course he'd give an ambiguous answer like that.  I also used Sonic as a reference point, since, when asked about his return, two Sega reps didn't say "We don't know, but we'd like to see him!", but rather said they could neither confirm nor deny something like that at the moment.  ...At least from what I can remember.  Someone else said a producer at Sega said pretty much what Kojima said about Snake, so who knows.  Personally, I wouldn't care either way if he came back or not, it'd be cool if he did, but I wouldn't miss him if he left.  After all, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I always thought it was weird how he was in ''Super Smash Bros.'', since I didn't think he really fit the style and tone of the series.  This is really hard to describe and quantify, but I think it mostly has to do with the ''Metal Gear'' franchise being mostly Playstation exclusive stuff, not to mention most if not all of it's games, both major and minor, were released on non-Nintendo consoles, and the ones that WERE released on Nintendo consoles were ports and/or remakes.  Hell, if Kojima didn't personally request he'd be in the game, I highly doubt anyone would want/see him in the series.  But that's just me. - [[User:BrawlMatt202|BrawlMatt202]] ([[User talk:BrawlMatt202|talk]]) 10:51, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

::An all valid point there, BrawlMatt, and if Snake doesn't return, then there's a great chance that not a single Konami character will appear in ''Super Smash Bros. 4''. With that said, if Snake doesn't return, that leaves a 3rd spot for another character from any 3rd party company, save Konami; unless, however, Simon Belmont were to be the secondary choice over Snake, which is highly unlikely. This does, however, leave it to chance that we could have two Capcom representatives total; the most likely one being Leon S. Kennedy, as he is the second most famous Capcom character and the best replacement to Snake. Of course, who's not to say we could have two Namco representatives in the fray, like Lloyd and Pac-Man, or another Sega representative, like Tails.

::However, I would like to state that this is entirely inferred upon if Snake doesn't appear and is my take on who may claim his spot; Leon, Lloyd, Pac-Man or Tails, the four most likely characters. If Kojima does announce Snake will not return, then this leaves the 3rd slot wide open for a potential character. Linking this up would be if Sony intends to release a second PSASBR game for its series and actually ''does'' include Snake in it this time; then Snake would definitely not get in. But then again, this is my opinion. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:27, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

== new leaks ==

found on neoseeker
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/54475/t1888729-who-revealed-next/31.htm#472
:We already recognized Nester as an April Fools joke. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is a never lover boy  18:48, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
It's not Nester, these were on the post on neoseeker
http://s28.postimg.org/qbqhde5r1/new.png
http://s15.postimg.org/cetwuomy2/yoshi.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/8ta8ndvse/falco.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/juome84l2/ridley_s.jpg

:Yoshi looks a bit 2-dimensional (the lighting is off), but you'll never know... [[File:GreenMarioBrawlHead.png|15px]] [[User:Green Mario|<span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#32CD32">Green</span>]] [[User talk:Green Mario|<span style="font-family:Papyrus;color:#FFA500">Mario</span>]] 21:34, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
:Well we had Falco rumors back in February, but April 27th marks the 17th anniversary for Star Fox 64 in Japan. Also sign your posts using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> even if you're an IP user. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is made in America  22:45, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
:Lol, Ridley's in the leak. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Editor 22:54, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
::Yoshi looks like his model is taken from one of the Mario Party games, maybe around 4-7. Falco is most likely a recolor of Brawl's model put into a very contorted pose. I don't know much about the other two, but I think I've seen the artwork for Ridley somewhere before. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]])
:::Also Falco's head looks like it's from the Star Fox smash taunt on Lylat Cruise. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is bad for me  22:47, 3 April 2014 (EDT)

== April Direct character predictions? ==

Who do you think might revealed on the upcoming ND? I guess at least one of these characters to be confirmed:
*Yoshi
*Snake
*Pac-Man
*Mii
*Chrom
*Palutena  [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 16:10, 5 April 2014 (EDT)

-----

:Here's who I'd like/expect from veterans.
*Yoshi (perhaps coupled with a trailer for ''Yarn Yoshi''?) 
*Ice Climbers (to commemorate the release of ''NES Remix 2'')
*Wario (to coincide with the release of ''WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgames!'' on the Wii U Virtual Console)
*Meta Knight (to coinciden with the release of ''Kirby & the Amazing Mirror'' on the Wii U Virtual Console)

:As for newcomers, here's what I'm hoping for.
*Palutena (''Kid Icarus: Uprising'' was released last month 2 years ago, plus there were those leaks a while back)
*Chrom or Player Avatar/Robin (This month is the 2-year anniversary of Fire Emblem: Awakening; this is also my most obvious choice and probably the one that would disappoint me the most in seeing, in that it's something I'd expect, and thus would rather see something more unexpected)
*Takamaru (April 14 marks the 28th anniversary of ''Nazo no Murasame Jō'', a game that has been referenced a lot lately, including ''NintendoLand'')
*Ridley (''Metroid Fusion'' gets released on the Wii U Virtual Console this month, but I expect someone this hyped would be held off until E3...  either him or Mewtwo)
*Isaac (''Golden Sun'' gets released on the Wii U Virtual Console this month, plus Isaac was an Assist Trophy in the last game)
*Andy or another ''Advance Wars'' character (''Advance Wars'' gets released on the Wii U Virtual Console this month...  seeing a pattern here?)
*Shulk or another ''Xenoblade Chronicles'' character (the game was released in America two years ago...  and I figure the primary reason to put him in the game is to give a wink to Project Rainfall and all that, right?)

:Those are my predictions...  can't wait until Tuesday! - [[User:BrawlMatt202|BrawlMatt202]] ([[User talk:BrawlMatt202|talk]]) 19:52, 5 April 2014 (EDT)

Geez OmegaTyrant, it's like Sakurai has been reading that journal of yours. I mean Charizard getting in and P. Trainer probably being cut. I know it's based on how development works and all as stated in the journal entry, but man. O_O [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 00:09, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

== E3 2014 character predictions? ==
[[Palutena]] and [[Ridley]] as new characters. I'll eat my shoe if I'm wrong.([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 19:15, 10 May 2014 (EDT)

I don't think Ridley is going to be in, because in the SSB Direct he was indirectly confirmed to be a stage hazard. I don't know if Palutena is going to be confirmed, but I think there's a chance. I'm very sure there will be quite a few veteran and newcomer reveals this E3. [[User:NessFTW2000|Ness da best!]] ([[User talk:NessFTW2000|talk]]) 10:15, 11 May 2014 (EDT)

Also, hopefully Ness tomorrow, makes sense considering Mother's Day is today in both Japan and North America.--[[User:ZestyLemon|ZestyLemon]] ([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 14:07, 11 May 2014 (EDT)

== MOTHER character for Mother's Day ==

Being that today is Mother's Day in much of the world (yes, including Japan!), what do you think the chances are of Lucas or Ness being revealed tommorow? ...or is that too much of a stretch? [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 14:12, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
...Oh darn, someone pointed this out already >.< and here I thought I thought of a unique idea. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 14:16, 11 May 2014 (EDT)

Sounds reasonable, but something tells me that might not be the case. We are getting closer and closer to E3, remember? --[[User:EpicWendigo|EpicWendigo]] ([[User talk:EpicWendigo|talk]]) 14:28, 11 May 2014 (EDT)

While I'd like to see it, I'm not overly optimistic any will be confirmed. Ness was a secret character in the original and Brawl, so it wouldn't be surprising if he wasn't confirmed pre-release. Lucas was a starter in Brawl because Mother 3 was recent at the time, but given the lack of immediate notability I wouldn't be surprised if both veterans return but as unlockables not confirmed before the 3DS version comes out. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:09, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
:I get the feeling Meta Knight is being saved for an e3 reveal to coincide with the tournament, to reference his overuse in Brawl tournies (or just to poke fun at his late appearance on the Dojo, as noted by Sakurai at that time). Wario will probably get a reveal near the release of Mario Kart 8. The only other Brawl starters left are Ice Climbers (possibly also an e3 reveal, given the high level of technical skill needed to use them effectively, assuming they werent cut due to technical limitations), Ike (all notable dates have passed as far as I can tell), and Lucas. Although MOTHER's anniversary is in very late July, that seems more like a Ness reveal date than a Lucas one. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 16:11, 11 May 2014 (EDT)

I would say Ness seems likely since he is in a way famous due to appearing in all three Smash games despite his series being not so famous. Lucas is not so likely imo, and I even have some little doubt with Ness too. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Omega 16:39, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
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@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 :If they do a similar "Launch & reveal", I imagine Wind Waker HD & Toon Link.'''''[[User:HavocReaper48|<span style="color:GOLDENROD; font-family:envirod;">--HavocReaper</span>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<span style="color:GOLD; font-family:envirod;">48</span>]]''''' 01:22, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
 ::Don't Count on it. In the trailer he was seen as an unplayable character on the spirit tracks stage. I wouldn't expect him.[[User:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:orange">TheAtomic</span>]][[User talk:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:red">Fire</span>]] 22:34, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
-[[Category:Smash 4 Talk]]
+[[Category: Smash 4 Talk]]
 ::: Falco, Wolf, and C. Falcon are also background characters in their stages, but that doesn't stop them from being playable. Besides, Toon Link from SSBB is based on Wind Waker, which is a different character from Spirit Tracks. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 13:26, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
 ::::Good point.[[User:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:orange">TheAtomic</span>]][[User talk:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:red">Fire</span>]] [[File:BluePichu.png]] 20:50, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 I'm expecting one character revealed per month along with a stage or two each month. Since Olimar's reveal to coincide with Pikmin 3's Japan release, I'm expecting some characters to be revealed with their game releases as well. Say, Wonder Red with The Wonderful 101, Mewtwo with Pokemon X & Y, and Sonic with Sonic Lost Worlds. --<span style="background-color: black; border:3px solid blue; border-radius:10px 30px 30px 10px;">[[User:Lasifer|ﾚ∆ㄅ]]</span> <span style="background-color: #000000; box-shadow: 0px 0px 10px #461B7E; border-radius:10px 10px 10px 10px;"> [[File:MaskedManSignatureSprite.PNG|Where da Las at?|link=User talk:Lasifer]]</span> 16:08, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
-[[Category:Smash 4 Talk]]
+[[Category: Smash 4 Talk]]
 Heh, I didn't think they'd show off Luigi so soon. And here I thought they wouldn't show any of unlockable characters from the past Smash Bros. I guess it wouldn't be much of a stretch to announce Toon Link when WW HD draws near. Then again, Luigi could've been just the exception.  [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 12:57, 7 August 2013 (EDT)
@@ Line 74: / Line 74: @@
 :Diddy is guaranteed to come back, and Dixie is one of the most likely potential newcomers, Little Mac being revealed today instead of either of them is meaningless. Sakurai has shown before at the Pokemon X/Y releases that the "reveal related character to coincide with Japanese release of a new game" is not a hard rule, and that he likes to swerve people (and since Little Mac was pretty much the most expected newcomer, revealing him today was a way to make his reveal somewhat surprising). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:00, 13 February 2014 (EST)
 ::Well he was surprised since today is the DK TF release in Japan but no DK characters have been revealed. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 23:05, 13 February 2014 (EST)
-:::I hope Diddy Kong will be confirmed by Friday in honor of Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze. If it doesn't happen, I'll be so upset! <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:71.81.41.145|71.81.41.145]] ([[User talk:71.81.41.145|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.81.41.145|contribs]]) 20:56, 17 February 2014 (EST)</small>
+:::I hope Diddy Kong will be confirmed by Friday in honor of Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze. If it doesn't happen, I'll be so upset! <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:‎71.81.41.145|‎71.81.41.145]] ([[User talk:‎71.81.41.145|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/‎71.81.41.145|contribs]]) 20:56, 17 February 2014 (EST)</small>
 ::::BTW, characters usually get confirmed on the Japanese release date of a certain game or a Japanese anniversary. This Friday is the US release of the Donkey Kong game however. [[User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) 22:04, 17 February 2014 (EST)
 :::::I know, but Little Mac stole Diddy's chance! I know Diddy will appear! He will, won't he?<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:71.81.41.145|71.81.41.145]] ([[User talk:71.81.41.145|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.81.41.145|contribs]]) 22:35, 17 February 2014 (EST)</small>
@@ Line 172: / Line 172: @@
 ::However, I would like to state that this is entirely inferred upon if Snake doesn't appear and is my take on who may claim his spot; Leon, Lloyd, Pac-Man or Tails, the four most likely characters. If Kojima does announce Snake will not return, then this leaves the 3rd slot wide open for a potential character. Linking this up would be if Sony intends to release a second PSASBR game for its series and actually ''does'' include Snake in it this time; then Snake would definitely not get in. But then again, this is my opinion. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:27, 19 March 2014 (EDT)
-::"''I also used Sonic as a reference point, since, when asked about his return, two Sega reps didn't say "We don't know, but we'd like to see him!", but rather said they could neither confirm nor deny something like that at the moment.  ...At least from what I can remember.''"
-::A bit late on this, but they most definitely did.
-::{{cquote|All we can say is that we also think it would be awesome if he was in the next Smash Bros. So yea, but that's more of a question for Nintendo than us.|cite=Takashi Izuki|source=http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/25/sega-would-have-sonic-hedgehog-return-super-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-says-its-nintendo/}}
-::That's most definitely saying "we don't know but we would like it", just like Kojima. And that was only a little over two months before Sonic's reveal, so he was most definitely decided for on the roster by then. Remember that these guys do not want to ruin the surprise of the character being in (and Sakurai certainly doesn't want them leaking it), so of course they're going to claim ignorance of if their character being in when they are in. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 12:05, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
 == new leaks ==
@@ Line 234: / Line 225: @@
 I don't think Ridley is going to be in, because in the SSB Direct he was indirectly confirmed to be a stage hazard. I don't know if Palutena is going to be confirmed, but I think there's a chance. I'm very sure there will be quite a few veteran and newcomer reveals this E3. [[User:NessFTW2000|Ness da best!]] ([[User talk:NessFTW2000|talk]]) 10:15, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-:"''because in the SSB Direct he was indirectly confirmed to be a stage hazard.''"
-:You can't count Ridley out yet, when you have to remember Sakurai is notorious for trolling the fanbase about playable characters, and likes to tease people into thinking a character is/isn't going to be playable, until revealing that they are/aren't. As such, until a character is explicitly confirmed as playable or in a prominent non-playable role, you can't consider them confirmed or disconfirmed for any role. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 11:20, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
 Also, hopefully Ness tomorrow, makes sense considering Mother's Day is today in both Japan and North America.--[[User:ZestyLemon|ZestyLemon]] ([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 14:07, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
@@ Line 251: / Line 239: @@
 I would say Ness seems likely since he is in a way famous due to appearing in all three Smash games despite his series being not so famous. Lucas is not so likely imo, and I even have some little doubt with Ness too. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Omega 16:39, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-Lucas is probably a cut. He was just a semi-clone from a game never released outside Japan.--[[User:ZestyLemon|ZestyLemon]] ([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 17:38, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-I agree. Lucas seems like he'll be cut, but Sakurai could make him an alternate costume for Ness. --[[User:EpicWendigo|EpicWendigo]] ([[User talk:EpicWendigo|talk]]) 17:55, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-:I don't expect Lucas to get cut. Out of all the cloney characters, he is the least so, not to mention Mother 3's huge popularity in Japan (and even notable popularity outside). I don't even play the MOTHER games, but I'd be pretty pissed if he got cut after three of the silliest Brawl roster choices made it in. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 19:36, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-Lucas the least clone-like? Come on, son, his specials are pretty similar. --[[User:ZestyLemon|ZestyLemon]] ([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 21:03, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-:Lucas probably won't get cut. He was actually planned for Melee as a replacement for Ness, to give an idea of how important he is. As for him being a clone, I think Lasto's right: Lucas is the least clone-like character. He and Ness don't share a single animation for any of their attacks or movements, a little unlike clone-y characters like Ganondorf and Falco (who won't get cut either). <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 21:44, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-::@BNK: Lucas and Ness share similar animations for most specials, forward smash, and up air. Even then, that's only 5/6 moves out of the entire repertoire of a character's moveset. Outside of that, those moves have usually drastically different function and knockback values. Just getting that out there. Otherwise, I agree with you and Lasto; Lucas is a unique character, and one can't categorize him as a clone for "looking like Ness" and having similar specials. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 20:55, 12 May 2014 (EDT)
-But people remember Ness. Besides, Sakurai said he'd never get rid of the original twelve characters. --[[User:EpicWendigo|EpicWendigo]] ([[User talk:EpicWendigo|talk]]) 22:51, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-:I won't really be so sure about that quite yet. While its definitely a fact that the Original eight will always be in every Smash Bros. game, the Original twelve may not be so. There is still three that aren't confirmed as playable in Smash 4 yet, and these characters, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness, are not really that popular outside of Smash. And when it comes to that, their popularity status is mediocre, Jigglypuff's popularity was only because of the original Pokémon anime and it has since faded away, Captain Falcon became well known to the internet with his Falcon Punch meme but I don't think its popular anywhere else other than that with even his series being small, and Ness' series, MOTHER, also being quiet small and not so well known but with a nice fan base. So yeah, I still say they're likely to get in but with a little doubt. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Justice 23:41, 11 May 2014 (EDT)
-::Actually, Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff are all really popular outside of Smash. What they have in common though is the fact that their playability in the Smash games accentuated their popularity. Captain Falcon's acquired voice in the games eventually made him an internet meme as you mentioned (which is still pretty popular), Ness' mere appearance as a playable character made him an instant favorite among fans (which is why Ness ultimately was never scrapped for Lucas), and Jigglypuff is supposedly really popular in Japan. Speaking of Jigglypuff, it's now a Fairy-type Pokemon, which means Jigglypuff is definitely going to return with a new Fairy-type Final Smash or special move. Its "Original 12" status and new typing are its only saving graces in my honest opinion, otherwise it might surely be getting the boot in favor of a Pokemon like Gardevoir or something. It was probably a myth that "original 12" meant that the character was going to get in for sure (there's a similar myth with the "gang of 8" default Melee newcomers, though many doubt the Ice Climbers will return), but that's not a reason to count them out. Plus, Sakurai has stated before that he really doesn't want to make any cuts, and the worry that the 3DS would "hold the Wii U version back" was calmed when we saw that the 3DS version would contain less data in the form of music, etc. so that its cast could match the Wii U version's. If he's going to cut anybody, he's going to consider the popularity/relevance of the character on the chopping block (like he did with Squirtle and Ivysaur, and probably will with the Ice Climbers). <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 00:09, 12 May 2014 (EDT)
-:::Yeah, it would be a stupid move to cut Ness, Falcon, or Jigglypuff. That's like if they never revealed yoshi and when the game came out he wasn't in it.[[User:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:orange">TheAtomic</span>]][[User talk:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:red">Fire</span>]] [[File:BluePichu.png|20x20px]] 20:41, 12 May 2014 (EDT)
-::::I'm increasingly suspecting that replacing Pokemon Trainer with standalone Charizard is going to be the only cut from Brawl's non-third-party roster. I wouldn't mind having Snake back, but I figure they'd have announced him by now if he's going to come back. Other than that, though.... [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:45, 12 May 2014 (EDT)
-Hahaha, I actually agree with Miles on something for once. Seriously though, cuts are going to be at an absolute minimum (where do people keep getting the idea that so many characters are going to get cut?), and it shouldn't be surprising to anyone if PT with Squirtle and Ivysaur are the only cuts besides the potential Snake. Ness is a virtual guarantee, not because of "original 12!" status, but simply because he's a reasonably popular character (within and outside Smash), that's the most recognisable character from a notable (if niche) Nintendo franchise (not to mention he's one of the more unique characters). Lucas is a pretty much a near guarantee, as for one his "clone" status is not anywhere near a big deal as BNK explained; you just change one of his special moves and alter his physics a little, and then even calling him a semi-clone would be difficult to justify. Two, he's certainly has sufficient popularity within and outside Smash, and while Mother's status tends to get overblown by its fans (no Mother was not "hugely popular" in Japan, it was a niche series there just as it is here, just less so), it's still a known enough franchise that two characters from it isn't outlandish, so a rather unique character like Lucas would not be among the lowest priority to return to Smash 4.
-Regarding Jigglypuff, I don't think she's at all a guarantee because of "original 12!", she's an antiquated character from a strongly populated series with many other viable candidates, while she was also a candidate for least popular character to play in Brawl among both competitives and casuals (hell, even PT had more players than her). However, while I don't think she's at all the guarantee people make her out to be, I still think it's very likely she'll return, just because she would be so easy to add (it is part of why she got put in the original Smash over Mewtwo in the first place). Just don't be surprise if another new and more recent gen pokemon is chosen over her. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 11:15, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
-:I'm pretty sure Jigglypuff will return, the main reason being that it became relevant again as of Gen 6. Charizard, Lucario, and Mewtwo are all relevant because of Mega Evolution, and Jigglypuff is relevant because of the Fairy type. Speaking of Mewtwo, Charizard's reinclusion sounds like a guarentee to me. Charizard and Mewtwo are the only two PKMN to have two Mega Evos, and Charizard's most popular is X, which was included for him, while Mewtwos most popular is Y, which as a parallel does a good job of representing both games. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 12:13, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
-::A new type hardly makes her more relevant. It's certainly not something like a mega evolution, and she wasn't used to promote the fairy type nor used in promotions in general. What gets Jigglypuff to return is her veteran status in general and for being such an easy character to make, rather than the fairy typing; she's still an antiquated gen 1 pokemon when Smash already has three gen 1 mons that are all much better Smash candidates than her. Also, those three pokemon were certainly relevant and popular and heavily promoted pokemon before the mega evolutions; the mega evolutions just solidified their status as god-tier mons (and was why they got the mega evolutions in the first place). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 12:34, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
-Well, there's always Father's Day, when Nintendo will be announcing the spiritual successor. Anyway, I agree with Omega Tyrant. --[[User:EpicWendigo|EpicWendigo]] ([[User talk:EpicWendigo|talk]]) 13:16, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
-:Yeah, now that I think about it, my reasoning was pretty silly; its not like Magnemite became playable in Melee. Still, Jigglypuffs veteran status, as you said, paired with its unique attributes (unique shield jump, lightest character in every appearance so far, only character without up special recovery as of Brawl, able to inflict sleep without Final Smash, single frame start-up finisher) should be enough to bring it back. If anything, they will take advantage of its new typing for some changes, rather than it alone justify its return (new final smash? I'll miss GIGA PURIN.) [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 13:26, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
-Personally, I wouldn't mind having Jigglypuff's Final Smash being Dazzling Gleam. --[[User:EpicWendigo|EpicWendigo]] ([[User talk:EpicWendigo|talk]]) 16:00, 13 May 2014 (EDT)
-== Third Party Characters? ==
-So, before the game gets released, I wouldn't be surprised if they added one or two more third part characters.There's slot of options, but since Namco is co-developing the game, I'm placing my bets on pac man.[[User:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:orange">TheAtomic</span>]][[User talk:TheAtomicFire|<span style="color:red">Fire</span>]] [[File:BluePichu.png|20x20px]] 20:47, 12 May 2014 (EDT)
-:Yeah. Pac-man is one of the most recognizable arcade characters so I put him in my ballot in OT's game. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Zerg Rush 21:20, 12 May 2014 (EDT)
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