Editing Forum:Move names

{{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
{{proposal}}
For too long, we have gone without a standard for what's considered an accepted source (outside of direct mentions by the Smash series) for naming characters' moves. That's about to change here. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 23:38, 22 January 2018 (EST)

When voting '''Please it clear whether you support or oppose each''' preferably by bolding it.
==Nintendo power==
'''Support''', as it's too difficult to come up with other names for moves, and we should have more data than we do. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 23:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''I vote for the Nintendo Power guides to be the source in this one.''' Nintendo Power used to be a legal division of Nintendo, on which descriptions used to be pretty accurate on whatever the topic was, no matter which one. Besides, some Japanese speaking people were able to translate, in a way, the moves of characters from their Japanese guides, technically making the names from the Nintendo Power guides official. As a result, I'll choose this one as my cup of tea. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] [[User:Beep|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:Beep|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 23:45, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support''' because nothing makes us look more unprofessional and unreliable than using material that's not from the company itself (despite being discontinued after publication). But it's also silly to keep so many blanks on the moves list whilst only filling in the four special moves. [[User:Nergal06|Nergal06]] ([[User talk:Nergal06|talk]]) 23:49, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Lean towards oppose''', ambiguously official content. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:50, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support''' for the reasons already listed, plus Nintendo Power move names are already consistent with the ones stated in the game (Lightning Kick, Knee Smash, etc); I'm assuming Nintendo of America translated SSBM from Japanese, and NP is also a part of Nintendo of America, so the move names seem official. [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 01:35, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Mention only''' per Miles. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support''' it's official so... ''[[User:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex Parpotta'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: red;">'''flying lobster!'''</span>]]'' 11:26, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support'''. At least it is associated with Nintendo of America. That's something unlike the below option. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

==Prima==
'''Neutral, possibly support''', for this is a third party source that doesn't necessarily know the official names. But then again, so is Nintendo Power, so you can see the bind I'm in. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 23:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Maximum oppose''', outrageously unreliable. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:50, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Complete and utter oppose.''' Prima guides have never been that reliable at giving out information to begin with. I'm completely siding with Miles on this one. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] [[User:Beep|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:Beep|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 23:54, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Oppose''' per others. {{unsigned|Nyargleblargle|07:06, January 23, 2018}}

'''No.''' [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Lol oppose'''. Prima has been know for their errors and bias in strategy guide games. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

==Comparable moves from each characters' source games==
'''Full support''' - this is the one I support the most. Nobody can know the move names better than the games from which the characters came from. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 23:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''I support''' if it's the same or very close to the source. [[User:ZombieZlayer|ZombieZlayer]] ([[User talk:ZombieZlayer|talk]]) 23:43, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Oppose''' I fail to understand how it can be considered acceptable to have move names taken from other games without any source claiming that they are in fact the same move as in Smash. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 23:47, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Oppose''', not used consistently in existing cases (like special moves), so applying these wholesale seems like a poor idea. Furthermore, Smash moves and source material aren't reliably 1:1. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:50, 22 January 2018 (EST)

'''Oppose''' because it's inconsistent. Not every SSBM move comes from a native game. For example, Ganandorf in SSBM is nothing at all like Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, etc. There will be too many unnamed moves. [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 01:37, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:I fail to see what relevancy this opposition has. Original moves aren't an unusual thing to Smash. This isn't about whether every single move has a name; this is about moves that are clearly based on attacks from a character's home series being named here, even if they aren't named officially as such by Nintendo. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 08:17, 23 January 2018 (EST)
::And most attacks in SSBM aren't based on moves in home series and/or don't have names in home series, so how was my point not relevant? [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 15:12, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Oppose''' per SK, plus where do we consider the line to be drawn with "comparable"? [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support''' While we don't want to make claims that [[bulbapedia:Shadow Claw (move)|do not chronologically make sense]], I do think it's fair to [[Pac-Man (SSB4)/Up aerial|at least use the obvious ones]]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support'''. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

==Whatever matches the Japanese names, regardless of source==
'''Do This.''' It's pretty simple. If an English name matches the Japanese name, it's good. If we don't know the Japanese names for some characters' moves but the same source is correct for other characters, odds are it's correct for everyone in that game. If a move doesn't change between games, it keeps the same name. This is what ''should'' be done, what should have ''always'' been done from day 1, and what '''''will''''' be done. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Spark 06:47, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:Not to sound like a 'yes' man, but this definitely sounds like the best option of all. I '''support''' it fully. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 07:54, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support''', but we might need to spell out that the source should be produced or endorsed by Nintendo. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support''', since this is a reasonable thing to do if we don't agree on using source material. Though, as a side note, what would this mean for [[Mario (SSB4)/Up aerial|moves that are named in Japanese, but not in English]]? [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:What's the Japanese name? This move is called Bicycle Kick in the SSBM player's guide by NP. I know the link is to SSB4 but the move is the same. [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 15:19, 23 January 2018 (EST)

'''Support'''. Easy and simple to follow this way. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)
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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
-{{proposal|y|We'll be using the Japanese translations.}}
+{{proposal}}
 For too long, we have gone without a standard for what's considered an accepted source (outside of direct mentions by the Smash series) for naming characters' moves. That's about to change here. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 23:38, 22 January 2018 (EST)
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 '''Support'''. At least it is associated with Nintendo of America. That's something unlike the below option. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)
-'''Support''', seeing as how it's technically a closer match to the official localizations of the games (being a Nintendo property) than... some others. [[User:BaconMastre|<span style="color: Crimson;">'''Bacon'''</span>]][[User talk:BaconMaster|<span style="color: Maroon;">'''Mastre'''</span>]][[File:BaconMasterSig.png|16px|link=]] 17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)
 ==Prima==
@@ Line 30: / Line 28: @@
 '''Complete and utter oppose.''' Prima guides have never been that reliable at giving out information to begin with. I'm completely siding with Miles on this one. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] [[User:Beep|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:Beep|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 23:54, 22 January 2018 (EST)
-'''Oppose''' per others. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Nyargleblargle|Nyargleblargle]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|contribs]]) 07:06, January 23, 2018</small>
+'''Oppose''' per others. {{unsigned|Nyargleblargle|07:06, January 23, 2018}}
 '''No.''' [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)
-'''Lol oppose'''. Prima has been know for their errors and bias in strategy guides. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)
+'''Lol oppose'''. Prima has been know for their errors and bias in strategy guide games. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)
-'''Obvious opposition''' because Prima is notorious for... y'know. Being generally false and unreliable. [[User:BaconMastre|<span style="color: Crimson;">'''Bacon'''</span>]][[User talk:BaconMaster|<span style="color: Maroon;">'''Mastre'''</span>]][[File:BaconMasterSig.png|16px|link=]] 17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)
-'''Oppose''' for the reasons stated above. [[User:Spexx|Spexx]] ([[User talk:Spexx|talk]]) 19:55, 14 March 2018 (EDT)
 ==Comparable moves from each characters' source games==
@@ Line 51: / Line 45: @@
 '''Oppose''' because it's inconsistent. Not every SSBM move comes from a native game. For example, Ganandorf in SSBM is nothing at all like Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, etc. There will be too many unnamed moves. [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 01:37, 23 January 2018 (EST)
 :I fail to see what relevancy this opposition has. Original moves aren't an unusual thing to Smash. This isn't about whether every single move has a name; this is about moves that are clearly based on attacks from a character's home series being named here, even if they aren't named officially as such by Nintendo. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 08:17, 23 January 2018 (EST)
-::I just don't see why we'd want to use a method that would leave so many gaps. [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 15:12, 23 January 2018 (EST)
+::And most attacks in SSBM aren't based on moves in home series and/or don't have names in home series, so how was my point not relevant? [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 15:12, 23 January 2018 (EST)
 '''Oppose''' per SK, plus where do we consider the line to be drawn with "comparable"? [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)
@@ Line 58: / Line 52: @@
 '''Support'''. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)
-'''Support'''. A number of characters have moves based directly upon other games' moves (see something like [[Mega Man (SSB4)/Up tilt|this]], which is a very clear use of the [http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_Upper Mega Upper] seen in other fighting games), so it would make sense to do this as long as it isn't too much of a stretch. To be fair, the aforementioned reference is a known one, but there are likely others with names that can properly be attributed. [[User:BaconMastre|<span style="color: Crimson;">'''Bacon'''</span>]][[User talk:BaconMaster|<span style="color: Maroon;">'''Mastre'''</span>]][[File:BaconMasterSig.png|16px|link=]] 17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)
-'''Oppose''' - We should aim to be as accurate as possible. If the move is never explicitly stated to be the same (such as Ryu's moves), we should't assume. What if it turns out that it actually wasn't the same move? [[User:Spexx|Spexx]] ([[User talk:Spexx|talk]]) 19:55, 14 March 2018 (EDT)
 ==Whatever matches the Japanese names, regardless of source==
@@ Line 73: / Line 63: @@
 '''Support'''. Easy and simple to follow this way. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)
-This is wholly unclear and needs at least one example, preferably more. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:29, 24 January 2018 (EST)
-:It's mostly a transitive process. First, find sources that list English names for SSB64 moves and check them against the known Japanese move names to determine which sources have official names for the Original 12. Assume that the same sources will have official names for the other characters in the other games, using specific known cases to check (e.g. "Justice Sword") and potentially disqualify from future games. If we find a Japanese source, they match what we have, and we can't find any English source for that character, we do minimal translation. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Boss 06:39, 25 January 2018 (EST)
-::Where do we get the Japanese names? Why are those considered official? [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 15:37, 25 January 2018 (EST)
-That deserves a '''support''' for this one! Fire Breath is Koopa Breath or Bowser Breath in Japanese. Some moves are identical to the Japanese version but with different spelling. [[User:Dragonfirebreath25|Dragonfirebreath25]] ([[User talk:Dragonfirebreath25|talk]]) 09:50, 25 January 2018 (EST)
-'''Support only if''' the name comes from a reliable source that has ''some'' loose connection to another (Nintendo-based) source. Reliability should always be first and foremost in my opinion so it would be better to leave some moves nameless if it's impossible to find names for them and to add names to moves if there is enough consistency across several mediums. [[User:Nergal06|Nergal06]] ([[User talk:Nergal06|talk]]) 15:56, 25 January 2018 (EST)
-:The official SSB site good enough? <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]]&nbsp;[[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 16:04, 25 January 2018 (EST)
-What's happening with this whole thing? And I'm still not sure about this particular method because I still don't understand where we get the Japanese names from and what makes those official. [[User:SeraphStar|SeraphStar]] ([[User talk:SeraphStar|talk]]) 22:49, 2 February 2018 (EST)
-'''Support''' because it makes logical sense to do so for the aforementioned reasons. [[User:BaconMastre|<span style="color: Crimson;">'''Bacon'''</span>]][[User talk:BaconMaster|<span style="color: Maroon;">'''Mastre'''</span>]][[File:BaconMasterSig.png|16px|link=]] 17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)
-By "Japanese name," do we mean official Nintendo sources, such as early Smash websites and Sakurai's own words, some of which have yet to be translated? If so, this suggestion has my support. The other choices range from opening a huge can of worms to downright disastrous, so this is probably the only good option anyway. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">HUAH!</span>]]</b> 20:16, 14 March 2018 (EDT)
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