Editing Forum:Is Marth Buffed or Nerfed, you decide!

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Ok so I think that Marth has been nerfed because his tip hitboxes are smaller, loss of L-cancelling (makes dair a lot harder), and loss of chainthrows (due to the major gravity loss of characters). So what do you guys think? [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 15:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Neither: He's just different. ==

His Dancing Blade is faster and easier to use, his counter is better, his dolPhin slash is stronger and has better recovery. However it's harder to hit with the tip, his dashing speed is slightly slower, and his Shield Breaker is not useful for edgeguarding. These and other changes have slightly affected his play style, but overall he wasn't really buffed or nerfed. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|<span style="color: red;">'''Dr.''' </span><span style="color: orange ">'''Pain''' </span><span style="color: yellow ">'''99''' </span>]] [[File:dp99.png]] [[User talk:Dr. Pain 99| <span style="color:blue">''Talk''</span>]] 15:50, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

I will have to agree with Dr.Pain on this. Marth saw various buffs and nerfs. First off, Marth's matchup against Meta Knight has nothing to do with him being being buffed or nerfed. Buffs and nerfs refer to a character's attributes, not their matchups. When referring to Marth's attributes, the most notable nerf is his lower reach. With his sword being shortened, he no longer has the amazing reach he had in ''Melee''. His grabbing reach was shortened as well. The tipper is also more difficult to land with his attacks except for the f-smash (which still has the same difficulty), the u-smash (which functions completely different in ''Brawl''), and the uair (which is still relatively easy to tip). Other nerfs would include a slower dashing speed, a weaker and less effective u-tilt, the loss of the u-throw chain throw, a weaker Shield Breaker that no longer has the vertical reach it had in ''Melee'', and a weaker tipped down smash. 

But as mentioned before, Marth saw various buffs. While the tip was made more difficult to land, the tip's power was strengthened in most of his attacks. All of Marth's aerials are more powerful and are all capable of KOing. The Dancing Blade is faster and much easier to perform, increasing its general usefulness. The Dancing Blade also has the unique benefit of all four attacks counting towards Stale Move Negation, which is much more severe in ''Brawl'', which gives Marth a quick and efficient way to restore his other attacks. Marth's Counter was buffed as it no longer has set knockback, with its power being dependent on the damage dealt by the opposing hitbox. Marth's fair now has horizontal knockback, which along with its increased knockback, makes it very useful for edgeguarding. Other buffs include an improved Dolphin Slash, as it is stronger and has invincibility frames now, a more reliable and damaging u-smash (even though it is much weaker than the tipped u-smash was in ''Melee''), a stronger tipped f-smash, a d-smash with less ending lag, Shield Breaker now produces [[Shield damage]] without having to be fully charged and it charges faster as well, and Marth's improved Dolphin Slash decreases his vulnerability to combos and chain throws.

In conclusion, Marth cannot be exactly as good as he was in ''Melee'', he has to be better or worse, even if by a minuscule amount. But I don't believe Marth was improved or weakened enough to say he had a general buff or nerf. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 01:29, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

==He's nerfed==
I think Marth is worse because he has trouble vs Meta Knight, doing worse against him than all the characters above him, and that matchup is very important because he's the one that is most likely to appear in offline tournaments and most top players use Meta Knight. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 16:57, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, I agree with you there. [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 18:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
::Meta Knight wasn't in Melee. Even though Marth (SSBB) is bad against Meta Knight (SSBB), that doesn't mean he's nerfed because there's no Melee matchup that it can compare to. Even if there was, matchups aren't great comparisons because both characters could have gotten nerfed/buffed. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|<span style="color: red;">'''Dr.''' </span><span style="color: orange ">'''Pain''' </span><span style="color: yellow ">'''99''' </span>]] [[File:dp99.png]] [[User talk:Dr. Pain 99| <span style="color:blue">''Talk''</span>]] 22:59, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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 :Yeah, I agree with you there. [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 18:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 ::Meta Knight wasn't in Melee. Even though Marth (SSBB) is bad against Meta Knight (SSBB), that doesn't mean he's nerfed because there's no Melee matchup that it can compare to. Even if there was, matchups aren't great comparisons because both characters could have gotten nerfed/buffed. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|<span style="color: red;">'''Dr.''' </span><span style="color: orange ">'''Pain''' </span><span style="color: yellow ">'''99''' </span>]] [[File:dp99.png]] [[User talk:Dr. Pain 99| <span style="color:blue">''Talk''</span>]] 22:59, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
-== smurfed ==
-id say nerfed,marth has the same problem the majority of high tiers from melee do,and that is that the weaker gravity,less hitstun(most important one),and loss of L-canceling drasticly reduced his comboing ability,marth,fox,sheik,and captain falcon didnt really get any drastic changes as far as actual moveset go,but because of the new physics they lost what it was that made them top tiers in the first place and that is their ability to combo,having the biggest impact on mostly sheik and falcon,since they were made somewhat weaker along with losing their comboing ability,not to mention that due to lack of hitstun and ledgegrabing being much easier edgeguarding is much harder in brawl since in melee not only would a combo rack up quite a bit of damage but usually also had the bonus of sending oponents offstage where you could edgeguard them,and theyve also lost their abilitys to spike since spikes no longer exist in brawl[[User:Gig|Gig]] ([[User talk:Gig|talk]]) 04:36, 10 October 2010 (EDT)
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