Editing Forum:Full Roster Thoughts

{{Forumheader|Smash 4 Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
Welp, it appears that the full roster has been revealed, albeit unofficially. Personally, I'm disappointed that Mewtwo didn't get a comeback; however, I'm more disappointed that they'd bring back a clone, Dr. Mario, rather than a non-clone. I did not see Ice Climbers being cut at all; that came by surprise. Lucas being cut was a surprise, but that may be my biase opinion towards the ''Mother'' series talking. I was also hoping that Skull Kid was going to be a playable character after [http://vgtribune.com/smash-poll-2012-winner/ this poll] was sent to Nintendo, but oh well. I was also hoping for Shadow to be playable, but I wasn't expecting anything. Overall though, I'd say this a good roster (maybe more to come in dlc?) So what are your guys' thoughts and opinions on the full roster? [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 17:31, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

My biased opinion is this: Brawl made 4 cuts (if you consider Young Link and Toon Link equivalent). SSB4 made 7 cuts (or 5 depending how you count PT), plus leaving 3 of Brawl's cuts alone, for a total of 10 no-shows. 10 no-shows in 60 characters is rather depressing. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Yellow 17:37, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

Snake was an understandable cut, given licensing reasons. Squirtle and Ivysaur are understandable cuts, given the removal of transformation and the desire not to overdose on Pokemon. Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers are baffling. Especially odd is that we get three very obvious clones... but they're all from series which were getting newcomers anyway. I guess I just don't get it. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:08, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

I'm laughing at all the Ridley callers.<br>
Also, Bowser Jr. is the fucking worst Nintendo-related character to put in smash. Even worse than Ridley. [[User:Chilex|Chilex]] ([[User talk:Chilex|talk]]) 18:34, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
:I'm totally neutral towards Bowser Jr., although I will admit it's a clever way to get 8 characters for the price of 1. Anybody who expected Ridley after the April Direct was deluding themselves, really. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:38, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
::In my opinion, the worst kind of character that can be added are characters that are just another version of a character already present. Not necessarily clone characters, though they all are, but characters that are essentially in the game twice: Mario and Dr. Mario; Link, Young Link, and Toon Link. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 18:43, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

The characters I like got in (R.O.B., Pac-Man, plus Dr. Mario), though I can resonate with most of the community's disappointment. Despite not hating them, I'll admit that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are mostly unreasonable (perhaps terrible) roster additions, as is Lucina, even considering their slight differences from their parent characters. Wolf, Lucas, and Mewtwo would have been much better choices given their uniqueness (mostly unique in Wolf's case, since he shares the space animal archetype with Fox and Falco). This just shows us that a new or reintroduced character can get in on just that, while familiar unique characters get the axe (or stalled, to use more optimistic terms). Chrom would have also been nice, and Sakurai's reason for leaving him out while ''at the same time'' including Lucina is mostly self-contradicting ("I didn't want another generic swordfighter, so here's a complete clone of Marth lol"). I also really wanted Dixie Kong and Isaac to appear. The only way we'll see them (the mentioned characters sans Chrom plus the Ice Climbers and Snake) now is if:
*It's discovered/revealed that the Wii U version will indeed have more characters. (very, very unlikely)
*DLC is considered. (I like the idea of DLC, though I don't know why there had to be any cuts to any characters not named Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. I would rather have a full roster without having to download characters down the road, but it's no huge deal).<br>
In short, I'm not disappointed, but I do think the roster could have been ''much'' better. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 18:49, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
:While the roster could be better (why does the Ice Climbers have to be cut?), it's still a good roster. 48 characters, including 14 newcomers. Now ''that's'' quite astonishing, especially for a 3DS game. [[User: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkorange;"> '''Rtzxy''' </span>]] [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]] [[User talk: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkblue;"> '''Smashing!''' </span>]] 18:59, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

I'm pretty satisfied with the list despite some few problems. I don't know why the hell are five characters: Lucina, Robin, Shulk, Dr. Mario, and Duck Hunt playable. The former three I don't even know about (I know their one of the newer Nintendo characters but still) until their reveal. (I think four characters for the Fire Emblem series is a little bit too much? It isn't as mega popular like Mario and Pokemon and the series has gained somewhat of a cult following by overseas in my opinion.) I expected a Melee veteran to be returning but sadly, Mewtwo is again not coming back, probably due to the fact that returning him to SSB4 when he was cut in Brawl makes it awkward I guess. But really? Dr. Mario is returning instead? He's not even [http://smashboards.com/threads/behold-the-power-of-data-smash-census-results.340187/ one of the top 10 most wanted returning veterans for SSB4 by the community and Mewtwo is among the most requested to return]! I also think the Duck Hut Dog being a playable character is also weird to be honest though I have to say that the latter two are somewhat recognizable within Nintendo games at least. Bowser Jr., in my opinion, is a pretty silly character, using an Junior Clown Car to battle. I kinda also expected Lucas and the Ice Climbers to be cut too, and I was sad to see Lucas cut since I'm a Mother fan but at least I'm glad that we don't get to see anymore chain grab shenanigans from the Ice Climbers. I am also strongly against having DLC characters but overall, I have to say its a good roster, having a mix of both retro and new characters for SSB4. I can't wait to play as Mega Man! [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Hammer Bro 19:36, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

It seems like the big discussion on boards now is the concept of DLC filling in the empty space on the roster screen at some point in the future, which by definition would mean that even the current "final" roster still isn't really the true final roster we'll be looking back on, in a sense. But what's really interesting is that a lot of hypothetical scenarios similar to this one have occurred to the fanbase: The Wii U version could actually launch with four more characters, corresponding to the empty space on the 3DS roster screen, and that these four extra characters will be made available in the 3DS version via a free DLC package around that time. That would be an ideal spin on the concept (certainly in comparison to any variation where the DLC is paid), but regardless, like it or not, it'll still likely be another several months before we can consider the roster truly finalized. :/ [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik the Appreciator]] ([[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|talk]]) 01:53, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

I'm mainly happy for Falco's return. The only cut character I'm certainly will not miss is Snake, because he spams way too many explosives and doesn't make sense in a Nintendo crossover game. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is made in America  01:56, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

This is an amazing roster, the best we've had yet, actually, and I don't believe that comparing something with what it could have been is a reliable method of determining how good it is. Quite frankly, I have nothing against clones, so Lucina and Dark Pit are really cool, and Dr. Mario is still meh. Duck Hunt is an amazing surprise addition that is much better than I thought it would be. Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Lucas had no real reason to be cut, but I'm not too bothered by it (although my sister has lost her main). [[User:ScizorSteelix|<span style="color:red">Scizor</span>]][[User_talk:ScizorSteelix|<span style="color:gray">Steelix</span>]] 06:49, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

:Personally, I'm of the opinion that this is not the true Final Roster.  I just think it's weird that there's quite a bit of space at the botton of the character select screen.  Even with all the characters unlocked, including Mii Fighters, there's still enough room for 4 more characters.  What else is interesting is that, yesterday, while all the new info was flooding out, [http://mynintendonews.com/2014/09/11/wii-u-and-nintendo-3ds-smash-bros-to-get-additional-characters-by-linking-versions/ someone on NeoGAF said something interesting regarding new characters to be introduced in the 3DS version.]  He says an aquaintance of his, who works on European localization, has actually seen models for [[Ridley]], [[Mewtwo]], the Chorus Men, and [[Dixie Kong]], and that they will be on the Wii U version, and they will also be playable on the 3DS version by connecting/syncing the Wii U and 3DS.  I admit, this does sound a bit fishy, since I'm always skeptical of rumors and leaks that are purely text-based, but this does make a fair amount of sense.  After all, the thing that drives hype the most when it comes to ''Super Smash Bros.'' are the characters, and since will know the supposed "final roster" once the get a copy of the 3DS version, there won't be that much to get excited over when it comes to the Wii U version.  After all, possible new modes and playing ''Super Smash Bros.'' in HD will only go so far.  It's also a good way to encourage people to buy the Wii U version.  Yeah, it's kind of a dick move to lock out certain content, forcing people to buy more then they want to for the full experience, and I do feel bad for those people, but since I already have a Wii U and already intend on buying both versions, I'm cool with this.  Besides...  I just want to believe this is true.  Really, the roster is fantastic, the biggest and outright best roster ''Super Smash Bros.'' has ever had (though I am sad about the lack of the [[Ice Climbers]], the [[Duck Hunt (SSB4)|''Duck Hung'' Dog]] makes up for it a bit), but I'm still unsatisified...  Because Ridley's not there.  Yes, I'm going to be THAT guy.  No, not the guy who will never be satisfied unless a certain character is in it.  I feel like I'm different from the people who are upset that [[Isaac]], Andy, [[Takamaru]], [[King K. Rool]], [[Ghirahim]], Bandanna Dee, Paper Mario, or even [[Krystal]] (my second most-wanted character who I feel is long overdue) playable.  What sets Ridley apart from them is that Ridley really is one of those characters who should have been in ''Super Smash Bros.'' a long time ago!  Even though ''[[Metroid (universe)|Metroid]]'' isn't that popular in Japan, it reeks that [[Samus]] is the only character to represent her respective franchise, especially knowing how long the series has been going on, and how popular it is pretty much everywhere else!  This isn't like ''[[F-Zero (universe)|F-Zero]]'' where all the characters are racers and there hasn't been a new ''F-Zero'' game in LITERALLY a decade, there have been new ''Metroid'' games recently, and [[Nintendo]] even said there are new games in the works.  Not to mention, if ''[[Star Fox (universe)|Star Fox]]'', which only has a new game once in a blue moon, can have 2-3 characters to represent their franchise, so can ''Metroid'', and no, [[Zero Suit Samus|taking off Samus's power suit]] doesn't count, even though it's a completely different moveset!  I don't want to turn this into a Ridley debate discussion, but really, that's all I ask, that's all I've ever asked for out of this new ''Super Smash Bros.''  I mean, yeah, I have a ton of characters I'd like to see, and I also felt that [[Little Mac]] was long overdue as well (and I probably might have been upset if he didn't make it in, though not as upset as I am about this), but Ridley doesn't feel like a character I really really want; he feels like a requirement by this point.  And the fact that [[Masahiro Sakurai]] just skipped over him again...  I just can't accept that...  So, sorry for that rant, but those are the reasons I feel Nintendo, and Sakurai might just have more surprises for us yet.  Heck, maybe in the NicoNico/Nintendo Treehouse Twitch stream today, they'll confirm my suspisions... - [[User:BrawlMatt202|BrawlMatt202]] ([[User talk:BrawlMatt202|talk]]) 09:15, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
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 :Personally, I'm of the opinion that this is not the true Final Roster.  I just think it's weird that there's quite a bit of space at the botton of the character select screen.  Even with all the characters unlocked, including Mii Fighters, there's still enough room for 4 more characters.  What else is interesting is that, yesterday, while all the new info was flooding out, [http://mynintendonews.com/2014/09/11/wii-u-and-nintendo-3ds-smash-bros-to-get-additional-characters-by-linking-versions/ someone on NeoGAF said something interesting regarding new characters to be introduced in the 3DS version.]  He says an aquaintance of his, who works on European localization, has actually seen models for [[Ridley]], [[Mewtwo]], the Chorus Men, and [[Dixie Kong]], and that they will be on the Wii U version, and they will also be playable on the 3DS version by connecting/syncing the Wii U and 3DS.  I admit, this does sound a bit fishy, since I'm always skeptical of rumors and leaks that are purely text-based, but this does make a fair amount of sense.  After all, the thing that drives hype the most when it comes to ''Super Smash Bros.'' are the characters, and since will know the supposed "final roster" once the get a copy of the 3DS version, there won't be that much to get excited over when it comes to the Wii U version.  After all, possible new modes and playing ''Super Smash Bros.'' in HD will only go so far.  It's also a good way to encourage people to buy the Wii U version.  Yeah, it's kind of a dick move to lock out certain content, forcing people to buy more then they want to for the full experience, and I do feel bad for those people, but since I already have a Wii U and already intend on buying both versions, I'm cool with this.  Besides...  I just want to believe this is true.  Really, the roster is fantastic, the biggest and outright best roster ''Super Smash Bros.'' has ever had (though I am sad about the lack of the [[Ice Climbers]], the [[Duck Hunt (SSB4)|''Duck Hung'' Dog]] makes up for it a bit), but I'm still unsatisified...  Because Ridley's not there.  Yes, I'm going to be THAT guy.  No, not the guy who will never be satisfied unless a certain character is in it.  I feel like I'm different from the people who are upset that [[Isaac]], Andy, [[Takamaru]], [[King K. Rool]], [[Ghirahim]], Bandanna Dee, Paper Mario, or even [[Krystal]] (my second most-wanted character who I feel is long overdue) playable.  What sets Ridley apart from them is that Ridley really is one of those characters who should have been in ''Super Smash Bros.'' a long time ago!  Even though ''[[Metroid (universe)|Metroid]]'' isn't that popular in Japan, it reeks that [[Samus]] is the only character to represent her respective franchise, especially knowing how long the series has been going on, and how popular it is pretty much everywhere else!  This isn't like ''[[F-Zero (universe)|F-Zero]]'' where all the characters are racers and there hasn't been a new ''F-Zero'' game in LITERALLY a decade, there have been new ''Metroid'' games recently, and [[Nintendo]] even said there are new games in the works.  Not to mention, if ''[[Star Fox (universe)|Star Fox]]'', which only has a new game once in a blue moon, can have 2-3 characters to represent their franchise, so can ''Metroid'', and no, [[Zero Suit Samus|taking off Samus's power suit]] doesn't count, even though it's a completely different moveset!  I don't want to turn this into a Ridley debate discussion, but really, that's all I ask, that's all I've ever asked for out of this new ''Super Smash Bros.''  I mean, yeah, I have a ton of characters I'd like to see, and I also felt that [[Little Mac]] was long overdue as well (and I probably might have been upset if he didn't make it in, though not as upset as I am about this), but Ridley doesn't feel like a character I really really want; he feels like a requirement by this point.  And the fact that [[Masahiro Sakurai]] just skipped over him again...  I just can't accept that...  So, sorry for that rant, but those are the reasons I feel Nintendo, and Sakurai might just have more surprises for us yet.  Heck, maybe in the NicoNico/Nintendo Treehouse Twitch stream today, they'll confirm my suspisions... - [[User:BrawlMatt202|BrawlMatt202]] ([[User talk:BrawlMatt202|talk]]) 09:15, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
-::There's also the enormous possibility that Sakurai and his team never ran into time constraints or even budget issues during development. This game has been implied to be a masterpiece that was handled carefully and thoroughly planned out, and I think that's reason to believe that secret characters will emerge in some capacity in the future (probably by DLC). I'm reluctant to believe the Wii U version would require the 3DS version but I'm a dedicated fan and it'd be worth the $40 to buy the latter (can't say that for many others, though). That said, Mewtwo, Dixie, and the veteran characters we haven't seen yet (talking about Wolf and Lucas mostly) could very easily fill those four spots. I also think Ridley is overdue as well, though the four I mentioned earlier all have better chances (perhaps Ridley ''could'' get in over Lucas, since Ridley is hugely popular in the U.S. and is often resurrected in some capacity while Lucas has only been in one Japan-only game and isn't terribly popular himself). As for the Ice Climbers, I had hopes that they'd be reworked, but them not showing up means all attempts failed so far. That means no more glitches and annoying-ass chain grabs for now at least. Ah well, we'll just have to wait and see. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 09:46, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
-:::They already fixed chain grabs with the new repeat-grab-delay mechanic, the Ice Climbers would be fine. And any claims that the Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons are just blatant lies; a 3DS has more power than a GameCube, and the GameCube could do it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bomb 10:14, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
-::::The GameCube couldn't "do it" ([[freeze glitch]]) and neither could the Wii (I'm talking about having glitch-free Ice Climbers, who in ''Brawl'' are affected by a minor glitch that causes contact indicators to lag on them as if they were under the effects of a [[Timer]]). Saying the Ice Climbers were cut due to them being weird characters is probably hastily jumping to conclusions, but it's still reasonable to assume so given the problems they caused in the past. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 11:03, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
-:::(edit conflict) The lack of Ridley sucks. The "clone corner" sucks (roster '''placement'''). The cuts suck. I'm absolutely devastated that Ridley wasn't in. This was my first chance of actually experiencing the roster stuff, and it sucked. By the time the next game is released, I'll be an adult with more responsibilities. I know I'll get over it eventually, but for now, it stings. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 10:15, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
-::Thing about [[Wolf]], though, I saw a trophy of him through one of the screenshots/streams that came out yesterday.  I'm reminded of seeing a [[Wario]] trophy and a Krystal trophy through the inital ESRB leak.  The description of Wario's trophy talked about him as a fighter, while Krystal's trophy was more general.  Even though I didn't see the text for Wolf's trophy (it would have been in Japanese anyway), I think that it might just deconfirm him as a possible fighter.  See, the only way to unlock fighter trophies is to beat [[Classic Mode]] as them, and since there's apparently a Wolf trophy but no Wolf character, it's unlikely that he'll be playable at some point down the line.  That's why I'm anxious to know if there's a trophy for Ridley, Mewtwo, Dixie Kong, Lucas, etc., because if there isn't...  There may be a possiblity that they'll be playable at some point, whether it be through connecting the 3DS and Wii U, or through DLC, or even via SpotPass (remember, in ''Fire Emblem: Awakening'', you can unlocked additional side chapters and playable characters through SpotPass and not have to pay anything for it).  Fingers crossed! - [[User:BrawlMatt202|BrawlMatt202]] ([[User talk:BrawlMatt202|talk]]) 10:26, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
-:It could even be StreetPass, although that hasn't really been used for super-major stuff thus far. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 10:43, 12 September 2014 (EDT)
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