Editing Forum:Characters that should have been in Brawl

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I think there are characters that should have been playable in Brawl. My list of characters is Ridley, Bowser Jr, Mewtwo(would have been a better character), Megaman, King.K Rool, Porky Minch, and Miis(could have used eqiupment from Wii Sports and Wii Play, such as boxing gloves). [[User:Dark Overlord|Dark Overlord]] 00:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Bowser Jr. and Mii would be cool, but I don't know who they would portray, maybe the color changes could be both wearing different color shirts, and different features. Mewtwo is an old Pokemon, Pikachu is a classic and PKMN Trainer's pokemon are Kanto starters from the recent-ish games Fire-Red and Leaf-Green. Porky and Ridley (Obviously Ridley) would be better as bosses. Ridley is much too big. Bowser Jr.'s final smash could have something to do with his magic E. Gadd brush. I don't know what Mii's would be, so any ideas?. I wish they would include AiAi from the ''Monkey Ball'' series. He could easily be a semi-clone of Sonic, but slightly slower.[[User:XXXXX|XXXXX]]

:Ridley is not "too big". By that logic, Olimar should be "too small", but he's still in. [[User:CBFan|CBFan]] [[User talk:CBFan|(talk)]] 14:12, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

:why not tank, from wii play? besides the fact it will be a fourth landmaster.[[User:Solar flute|Solar flute]] ([[User talk:Solar flute|talk]]) 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

[[User:Toon Ganondorf#Future Characters|My page]]. That's all I'll say. '''[[User:Toon Ganondorf|<span style="color:green">Toon</span> <span style="color:purple">Ganondorf</span>]]   [[User Talk:Toon Ganondorf|<span style="color:Gold">(t</span>]]  [[Special:Contributions/Toon Ganondorf|<span style="color:Gold">c)</span>]]''' 23:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
:I think Mewtwo should've been in Brawl. I heard that some hackers found data like a victory tune, teleporting sounds, and Mewtwo yelling. So why didn't they just finish what they started? And I think Dr. Mario would've been a great alternate costume. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|Unknown the Hedgehog]] ([[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|talk]]) 00:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm actually Surprised that Rockman/Megaman didn't make the cut, but he was third party, so it's not that big a deal. I do wonder how Plusle and Minun might have played....([[User:Fawfulmk-II|Fawfulmk-II]]) ([[User talk:Fawfulmk-II|Fawfulmk-II]]) 9:59 PM, 4 August 2009

== Hornet (Daytona USA) ==

Here's a character of my own: Hornet (''Daytona USA'', not from ''Fighters Megamix'')

'''Ground Attacks:''' 

*Neutral B: Performs a 720 spin around (press B three times) its foes. 5 - 10% damage
*Dash Attack: Slams its e-brake at medium speeds, causing the car to slide across the terrain, hitting rivals nearby. 10% damage with average knockback
*Strong Side: Slams head-on at rivals. 15% damage
*Strong Up: Pops its hood, then releases toxic smoke from its engine. 12% damage
*Strong Down: Rolls over torwards foes. 17% damage

'''Other:'''

*Ledge Attack: Gets up and goes upside down from the front, crushing foes nearby. 15% damage

'''Smash:'''

*Side Smash: Spins its back wheels (releases smoke in the process) and will collide head-on at opponents at mid-to-high speeds. Has a great knockback and inflicts 25% damage. This move is somewhat hard as the car may have a hard time stopping
*Up Smash: Acts as if it crashed into a wall and becomes airborne and tumbles. Does 18% damage
*Down Smash: Releases fire from its exhaust pipes and anyone is near the car will get fire damage. 20% damage

'''Aerial:'''

*Neutral Aerial: Pops it hood open, inflicting damage to its foes. 5% damage for each hood popping open (by pressing B repeatedly)
*Forward Aerial: Does a 360 spin at its enemies. Has fair damage
*Back Aerial: Removes its back bumper and acts as a projectile and after it does damage to its enemies, the rear bumper is back in its place. Does minor damage, but has good knockback
*Up Aerial: Backflips two times at nearby enemies. Does 17% damage, most likely because of its extreme weight
*Down Aerial: Barrel rolls on the way down. This attack can be deadly as this causes its foes to be stuck on the ground for a short periods of time. Does moderate damage

'''Grabs & Throws:'''

*Pummel: Traps and crushes foes with its front. 5% damage
*Forward Throw: Rams its enemy away and then slams on its brakes for knockback. 10% damage
*Back Throw: Turns around and backs up, running its enemy over. 14% damage
*Up Throw: Creates a small explosion that will send an enemy that the car was holding it will send its foe airborne. 19% damage
*Down Throw: Drives over to its downed foe and spins its back wheels. 5% damage each

'''Special Moves:'''

*Standard Special Move: '''Tire Throw''' - Hornet's pit crew rushes in and grabs spare tires and throws it at foes. Average knockback and 9% damage
*Side Special Move: '''Powerslide''' - The Hornet slides sideways longer and faster and is able to plow through foes. Great knockback and does 30% damage
*Up Special Move: '''Barrel Roll Upward''' - Performs a 5x barrel roll and is great to grab hard-to-reach platforms. It can also inflict damage to enemies very well (24% damage)
*Down Special Move: '''Pit Stop''' - Hornet's pit crew rushes in to make a quick pit stop to change Hornet's tires and possible repair (30% less damage). Any foes comes near it will receive 10% damage and will have a slight knockback.
*Final Smash: '''Ultimate Sling Shot''' - Revs its engine loudly while spinning its back wheels rapidly (which makes the smoke very thick), followed by flaming exhausts from underneath and a speedometer appears and shows its speed increasing extremely fast and reaches 250 mp/h. The countdown timer appears and will say "3, 2, 1, GO!", as if its a lot like the start of the race. Once its speed has reached to maximum and the "GO!" is heard, it stops spinning back wheels and races off the screen for a short while (at insane speeds, but does'nt get a Suicide KO), instantly KOing (100% damage) foes for those who are caught standing on Hornet's path. Though the Hornet misses all 3 (or few) enemies, the strong sonic boom will approach at its rivals and will sweep them away from the screen, with no chance of escaping (except walls). Hornet then hops back to the stage from the screen, unscathed.

*'''Hornet's Stage:''' Three-Seven Speedway
**'''Hazards:''' 40 cars will zoom past by the track, thus slamming foes head-on at high speeds. Results in a One-Hit KO

*'''Hornet Icon:''' Hornet's logo from the hood (not the #41)

*'''Hornet's Music:'''
**Three-Seven Speedway - The King Of Speed
**Dinosaur Canyon - Let's Go Away
**Sea-Side Street Galaxy - Sky High
**The King Of Speed (Saturn Version)
**Let's Go Away (Saturn Version)
**Sky High (Saturn Version)
**Battle On The Edge (Daytona USA 2)
**Sling Shot
**Skyscraper Sequence
**I Can Do It

*'''Hornet's Victory Music:'''
**Dinosaur Canyon (Short/Dreamcast verison)

*'''Costumes:'''
**Automatic (default) (Red and Blue)
**Manual (Red and Gold)
**Custom Color 1 (Blue and Red)
**Custom Color 2 (Gold and Red)
**Custom Color 3 (Grasshopper's paintjob)
**Custom Color 4 (Falcon's paintjob)

*'''Exclusive Stickers:'''
**Hornet (Saturn version)
**Hornet (Windows version)
**Hornet (Dreamcast version)
**Gallop (#27)
**Max (#2)
**Phoenix (#8)
**Oriole (#16)
**Magic (#33)
**Wolf (#41)
**Balance (#99)
**Grasshopper
**Falcon
**Lightning
**Unicorn
**Pywackett Barchetta
**Pywackett Barchetta Super
**Red Cat
**Rule Of The 9th
**Javelin
**Chum's Gum/J.C. Eagle Racing Team
**Scorpio Plasma Racing
**Phantom Full Force Racing
**Number 41
**Hornet's Pit Crew
**Daytona USA logo

*'''Victory Pose:'''
**Spins around three times before stopping (but not without revving its engine once)
**Slides across the screen before stopping and revving its engine two times
**Hornet's pit crew equips its tires and refuels it and gives them an "ok" pose

*'''Taunts:'''
**Revs its engine four times
**Revs its engine loudly and spins 360 degress.
**Turns off its engine and starts it up again

*'''Death Cry:'''
**'''KO:''' If Hornet is KO'd off the screen, it will rev its engine loudly for 5 seconds before its engine dies out
**'''Star KO:''' If Star KO'd, Hornet will rev its engine loudly two times before dissapearing into a twinkle star
**'''Screen KO:''' If Screen KO, instead of making an engine sound, it will make a small loud hiss as if its cooling system has been ruptured, and it will also make a car crash sound

*'''Assist Trophies:'''
**"Rolling Start!!" (slides in and out of the screen two times and acts like in the beggining of a race. Can ram through foes and inflict 25% damage)

*'''Hornet's Items:'''
**Repair Wrench (used as weapon for characters, used as health for Hornet)
**Diesel Fuel (used to inflict fire damage against enemies, while it is used to replenish health for Hornet)
**Car Parts (e.g. hood, front bumper, suspension parts, brake discs, engine compartments, car doors, etc.)
**Easy Tires (for less knockback)
**Easy Medium Tires (for slightly less knockback)
**Medium Tires (for medium knockback)
**Medium Hard Tires (for good knockback)
**Hard Tires (for great knockback)

*'''Special Ability:'''
**Resistant to any kinds of water attacks
**Whenever night time stages is in place, its roof lights will be equipped automatically to slightly increase visibiliy. When Battlefield takes place and night time has appeared, Hornet will automatically switch into '''Pit Stop''', only to equip roof lights, rather than changing tires and repairing. 
**Even though it has took a [[Smash Ball]] and it does'nt glow, its roof lights, however, does glow

*'''On-Screen Appearance:'''
**Hornet's Pit Crew is seen refueling and changing tires, and runs off after preparing the Hornet car

*'''Wii Remote Choice:'''
**Revs its engine three times


I know it may sound retarded, but hey, at least it's better than having to watch it stand on its back wheels like in ''Fighters Megamix''. [[User:JMBZ-12|JMBZ-12]] ([[User talk:JMBZ-12|talk]]) 23:31, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:Great, but did you have to put the entire moveset ''here''?'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 23:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::Yes (thanks to my genius ideas lol). I palyed Daytona USA for the Dreamcast and Daytona USA 2 Power Edition. I'm having a hard time what does the Hornet's engine sound like when I paly Daytona USA 2 arcade game. [[User:JMBZ-12|JMBZ-12]] ([[User talk:JMBZ-12|talk]]) 00:56, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

What would be the series symbol? And if it's the hood thing, I thought it was the head sprite. [[User:King KirbyD|King KirbyD]] ([[User talk:King KirbyD|talk]]) 01:42, 1 April 2012 (EDT)

== New Character ==

All right get this

<big>Kim Jong Il</big>
Like one of his moves could be the refuse the UN, and his final smash could be to drop the enemies in a cage of panthers, but their really cats and da players are pupets.  [[User:13375poolR|13375poolR]] ([[User talk:13375poolR|talk]]) 04:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I've got a new character.


<big>Zing </big>
B move: Laser gun- He takes out a giant laser gun and shoots it
Side B: Roundhouse Kick: He roundhouse kicks you.
Up B: Hover: He hovers above the air
Down B: Bomb: He sets down a bomb and covers his ears
Final smash: Dark Voyage: All the opponents' areas turns black so they can't see their characters.

== Characters that needs to be added ==

*Ryu
*Guile
*Zangief
*Chun Li
*Mega Man
*Spider Man

== A lil more sonic characters ==

they should definitely put Knuckles, Shadow, and keep Sonic in brawl. Maybe Tails(but i don't think he could do much), and have ultimate Emerl as an assist trophy instead of the small robot that flies around shooting up the place.--[[User:Emerl10|Emerl10]] ([[User talk:Emerl10|talk]]) 22:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)Emerl10

Thats my problem with ssbf, they included like 4 charactes from sonic, and both knuckles and shadow would be near clones, besides why would s why would hal have more characters than kirby series? [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] ([[User talk:Atomix26|talk]]) 18:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== Here we go ==

All right get this:  <big>A Pack of Wild Dogs</big>.  It'd be like the Ice Climbers but with more of them and with rabies.  How badass would it be to get Snake mauled by a pack of wild dogs.  [[Special:Contributions/128.255.111.172|128.255.111.172]] 19:42, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:I prefer Chain Chomps :p [[User:Paper Bowser|Paper Bowser]] ([[User talk:Paper Bowser|talk]]) 22:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

== My picks ==

O.K
Bowser Jr.
Diamond, Pokemon trainer except with torterra infernape and empoleon
and a coustomizable mii character
[[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] ([[User talk:Atomix26|talk]])
I think Lyn Roy Bowser Jr. Slippy Shadow and Waluigi should of been in Brawl --[[User:Ikeruler|Ikeruler]] ([[User talk:Ikeruler|talk]]) 22:29, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
==No-nos==
OK, here's a list of characters that I'm sick of people recomending.
*Anime characters
*comic book characters
*Any more mario guys - the series has enough attention
*Any more Pokemon - same as the mario guys
*Guys made by competetors of nintendo - it's not going to happen
*Made up guys 
*Actual guys

Are you kidding Waluigi and Bowser Jr. should be in brawl as i mentioned before --[[User:Ikeruler|Ikeruler]] ([[User talk:Ikeruler|talk]]) 22:31, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Why? Waluigi has never had a large role in a game, and neither has Jr. If they are both in, the Mario series will have 6 characters, which is unnacceptable since we have to be fair to other series. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:09, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
::While you're right about Waluigi, you're wrong about Bowser Jr. Have you played Sunshine? Since then, he had has an major role in every Mario game (I haven't played Galaxy 2 yet so I don't know his role in it). Also, a perfectly legitimate character shouldn't be excluded because "their series already has ''x'' amount of characters". That kind of thinking is one likely reason Mewtwo didn't return and can keep many other good characters from becoming smashers. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 23:27, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
:::First of all, Bowser Jr. would just be a clone of Bowser. He doesn't even fight in his games. The only reason Mewtwo didn't return is because they put in Lucario because he was in a recent movie. It's very likely that Mewtwo will replace Lucario in the next smash game. Also, let's look at the games Jr. has appeared in recently, shall we?
:::Sunshine: You could say he has a large role in the game, but this alone does not mean he should be in Brawl.
:::NSMB: Jr. has a large role, but not that large.
:::Mario Kart DS (if I'm right, he does appear in that): since the game has no storyline, Jr. role
:::NSMBW: Jr. has a very small role, only being a (very easy) mini boss appearing after three castles.
:::Galaxy: Again, not a very large role. Has two Galaxies to himself but that's it.

:::In all, Bowser Jr. has no reason to be in Brawl. Unlike the other Mario characters, who were there since SMB, Jr. only appeared like 8 years ago. He's not a "classic" character, nor is he one of Nintendo's most popular characters. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:42, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

::::A character shouldn't have to be an "Classic" character. Is Lucas an "classic" character? What about Olimar or Sheik? Captain Falcon certainly couldn't have been considered a classic character at the time of the first SSB. While popularity is important, I haven't heard anywhere that Bowser Jr is unpopular. But when talking about popularity, were the Ice Climbers ever popular? What about Jigglypuff? As I know, it is '''not''' a popular pokemon and it has no significance in the games. Yet it was included in every ''SSB'' game and was likely chosen over Mewtwo '''''twice'''''. I also believe a character's significance in a series is much more important than their popularity. As for his roles, I wasn't including spinoff games. While I actually haven't played NSMBW much, his role in Galaxy can be considered large. The only characters' whose role is larger is of course Mario, Bowser, Rosalina, and Luigi (you just see Peach in the beginning and in the end, thus I don't considered her role to be that big). If you consider his only large role to be in ''Sunshine'' and that alone doesn't get him a spot, what about Sheik? The '''only''' Zelda game she appeared in is ''OoT'' and while her role was major, according to your logic, she shouldn't have gotten a spot in ''Melee''. Both Ness and Lucas have appeared in only one game outside of ''SSB''. I'll bring up the Ice Climbers again as they appeared in only one other game outside of ''SSB'', a game that came out back in 1985 and is mostly known only because of the Ice Climbers inclusion in ''SSBM''. As mentioned before, there have been multiple characters with less credentials than Bowser Jr. yet have been included in ''SSB''.

::::In conclusion, when the next ''SSB'' comes out, there should not be a quota system for which characters will get included and who'll get excluded. As long as a character has the credentials and the ability to fight (Toad should '''never''' be included in a ''SSB'' game for lacking this important criteria), they should be included. No legitimate character should be excluded because their series has 4 smashers and a non legitimate character should not be included because their series has only 1 fighter and/or because they're a minority. The Mario series deserves to have a fifth smasher and Bowser Jr. is certainly the most deserving out of the Mario characters who aren't smashers. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 00:27, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

::::Bowser Jr.'s moveset would be to Bowser's as Diddy Kong's is to DK's: different. I can't really see Bowser Jr. as a clone of Bowser, to be honest. He'd be faster, lighter, and would be equipped with faster attacks. He'll probably appear in the next Super Smash Bros. game, but then there is the possibility of Baby Bowser, who could be a form of Bowser as [[Toon Link|Annoying Link]] is a form of [[Link|Cool Link]]. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 00:06, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
:::::Aw come on. Wind Waker's an awsome game. Anyways, the Ice climbers were included because they were one of the starting games for the NES, Ness and Lucas have really good, unappreciated games that are actually pretty popular in Japan. Jiggly was kinda a joke character, but she is indeed popular in Japan. I agree that Sheik shouldn't have been in Melee, but then again there's no other way Zelda could have fought. Captain Falcon was going to be the original mascot of the SNES, so he's pretty important. Olimar was one of Nintendo's knewest series, so that's probably why they included him. Peach indeed has a large role in Galaxy, rescuing her is pretty much the point of the game. I won't be '''that''' upset if Jr. is in the next smash game, but no Waluigi, no more Pokemon (they already have their [[pokeball|item]]), and not many more third parties (I don't even think Sonic and Snake were a good idea, but that's another debate). [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:41, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
::::::Now just to clarify, I don't believe that any of the characters I mentioned other than Jigglypuff shouldn't have been included (though I'm borderline with the Ice Climbers). I believe Sheik did deserve to be in ''Melee'' but Zelda could have most certainly fought without her. Would it be too difficult to give Zelda a different down b special? Like I said before, a character's significance is more important than popularity. While the Japanese may like Jigglypuff for reasons I don't understand, it is not significant in the games in any way, shape, or form. Thus, it should be removed in the next game (especially if you're correct about it being originally a joke character) and Mewtwo should be brought back, with the correct statistics (his false weight in ''Melee'' was such a abomination by the developers). While I agree that Waluigi shouldn't be included since he has yet to appear in a Mario game that is not a spinoff. I don't agree with your stance about the Pokemon, the pokeball item should have nothing to do with a Pokemon's inclusion as a playable character. As such, as long as a Pokemon is legitimate, its inclusion is justified. The same goes for third parties characters, as long as they're significant and popular enough, I have no problem with their inclusion. Also, I don't believe a "damsel in distress" role is important. On a final note, don't act like you know the exact reasons about why each playable character got included and why the removed characters were omitted as you were not part of the ''SSB'' development team. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 00:45, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I did not mean to act as if I knew more than anyone else. As smash fans, we can only speculate. However, my stance on third parties is because SSB was originally meant as a competition between '''nintendo''' characters. Allowing too many third parties will create a slippery slope, and before you know it there will be more third parties than regular guys. Jigglypuff may not have as large of a role in the pokemon games as Mewtwo, for example, but she is notably famous universally as the "cutest" pokemon. She also has the reputation of looking weak and innocent. In fact, many pokemon fans say phrases like "that's so weak Jigglypuff could beat it". Jigglypuff is also notable for its infamous sing move, which is most notable in the Anime. I agree that Mewtwo should be brought back, but most pokemon serve best as an item. For example, Pichu is just a weaker version of Pikachu, hence it was removed in Brawl. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 01:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::I don't see how adding a few third party characters is going to lead to 36 third party characters so I still disagree with you about them. I never heard '''anywhere''' that Jigglypuff is the "cutest" pokemon. I also never heard the phrase "that's so weak Jigglypuff could beat it". Magikarp has the image of being the weakest pokemon, '''not''' Jigglypuff. Also, Jigglypuff '''is not''' the only pokemon that can learn sing, there are 18 other pokemon that can learn it. Don't even bring up its annoying and pointless role in the horrible anime, that should have '''nothing''' to do with Jigglypuff becoming a smasher. When it comes to a character becoming a smasher, all other media outside of video games should not be factored in to a character becoming a smasher. As such, Jigglypuff should have '''never''' been in the first ''SSB'' game and she shouldn't be brought back in the next '''SSB''' game. Also, I never said that Pichu should be brought back, it was a completely pointless character in ''Melee''. A baby pokemon should ''never'' be a smasher, especially if they're the first stage of a existing pokemon that's a smasher. In fact, any inferior version of any character is pointless. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 04:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::How can you ignore the Anime? That's the only reason Pikachu is even in the series. If you're talking about Jiggly being cute, there's the [http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Jigglypuff Pokemon wiki] itself. Sing may be learnable by other Pokemon, but Jigglypuff is by far the most famous f them. Again, Jigglypuff is very popular in Japan. About 3rd parties, perhaps I was exaggerating, but there should be no more than 2 new third parties in the next smash game. Again, SSB was meant for '''Nintendo's''' stars to fight, not every video game main character. Characters that have nothing to do with Nintendo at all (Sonic's past rivarly with the company for example) should not be included. For this reason Pac Man is a good choice, as he has appeared in many games, not just ''Pac Man'', and some of these were indeed designed by none other than nintendo itself. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:27, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::The anime has no impact on the ''Super Smash Brothers'' franchise whatsoever, contrary to popular belief. Pikachu is in all of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games because he is Pokemon's Mascot, and ranks high in popularity, up with Mario and Link. Before the [[Star KO]] is brought up, I'll have you know that the star KO is common in all forms of Japanese media, not just anime. I agree with Omega Tyrant in that third party characters aren't a bad idea, but I also agree with Mr. Anon in that they need to be kept to a minimum. I only know one other third party character fit for the roster, and that's Banjoe Kazooie. Mr. Anon also has points in that Pokemon that are popularly commonplace in Japan are more likely to appear in the Super Smash Bros. games, and it is not because of the anime. Please keep this in mind. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 06:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::Uh, it doesn't say anywhere in that article that Jigglypuff is considered the "cutest" pokemon. It also doesn't say it in Jigglypuff's article on Bulbapedia[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Jigglypuff_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29], a vastly superior Pokemon Wiki. I can't possibly see how you think a pokemon being considered "cute" justifies it being a smasher. A character being included just because they "sing" is also completely ridiculous. The anime should not be taking into consideration at all, ''Smash Brothers'' is a game about video game characters, not anime or any tv show characters. As such, media outside of video games should not be considered when considering a character for Smash Brothers. The anime is also not the only reason that Pikachu was included in the "Smash" series. In case you didn't notice, Pikachu is the '''mascot''' of Pokemon. While unfortunately, its role in the anime probably did influenced it becoming the mascot for Pokemon, the anime is not the only reason Pikachu was included in the first game. As I have mentioned before but you keep seeming to ignore, significance>popularity. It doesn't matter how popular a character is, if they're not significant at all in their series, they should not be included. Think of it as a math formula where a character's right to be a smasher is this simple equation '''(S5*P2=X)''', whereas S is their significance, P is their popularity, and X is how deserving a chacter is to become a playable character in a ''SSB'' game. Now if a character's popularity rating was 24 while their significance rating was 0, the formula would equal 0, meaning that they don't deserve to be a smasher at all. No matter how high their popularity rating is, if their significance equals 0, the result of the formula will still equal 0. This is how I see it with Jigglypuff. Any popularity it has in Japan shouldn't justify it becoming a smasher when it has absolutely no significance in the Pokemon RPGs. As for the third party characters, I do know that ''SSB'' is a game about competition between Nintendo characters and I should have mention that they should have significance to Nintendo as well as being significant video game characters themselves in my earlier edit. I never said anything about supporting the inclusion of third party characters such as Master Chief, who have no significance with Nintendo. At the very least, a third party character should have appeared in a game for a Nintendo system (such as Snake has for the first two Metal Gear games as well as Twin Snakes for the GCN). In conclusion, I have no problem with significant third party characters who have appeared in games for Nintendo systems being included but I fully believe Jigglypuff should have never been included and thus it should be removed in the next ''SSB'' game. It is not popular as a pokemon outside of Japan and it is one of the least popular characters in ''Brawl'' but most importantly, it has no '''significance''' in the Pokemon RPGs. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 06:47, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

==Doc King's opinions==
I think Doc should be in it because he's more popular than Mario, Geno because many ppl lik him and he really needs 2 b in more games and plus, he's strong enough to beat Meta so he could balance the game up a bit, Mewtwo because he's not a clone and he's (i think) a villan in pokemon, Roy because many casuals lik him, Y. Link because the flamin arrow was just too gud, and Knuckles because he looks lik a fighter and he would be fun to watch fight sonic and we need more sonic characters in Brawl. [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 22:11, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
:Doc is not really more popular than Mario, either Y. Link ore Toon Link can make it the next smash game (not both though), I don't think its a good idea to have too many more Sonic characters, but 1 more is OK, I don't know who Geno is, but in any case characters are not decided by what people want. Other than that I agree with your list though. (I loved Mewtwo, he's just so cool). [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with Mr. Anon, except I think Dr. Mario should be an alternate costume for Mario. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|Dr. Pain 99]] ([[User talk:Dr. Pain 99|talk]]) 00:10, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

==What T-Bird Thinks!==
I believe the Melee characters should obliviously make their return. There is data on the Brawl disk for Toon Zelda/Sheik, so maybe they add her, playing as them would be kinda cool. Other Sonic characters would've been cool, but Sakurai said no more than 2 3rd party characters. For those of you who want characters like Cloud and Master Chief in Brawl, let me ask you this: Was the character you wanted in Brawl ever on a Nintendo system? They said the characters that were chosen were in the main series of the universe they hail from. [[User:T-Bird|T-Bird]] ([[User talk:T-Bird|talk]]) 02:43, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
:Well, I wouldn't want Y. Link to return, or Pichu. Dr. Mario maybe, Roy and Mewtwo definitely. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 03:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
:Toon Zelda/Shiek might have been too much. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|Dr. Pain 99]] ([[User talk:Dr. Pain 99|talk]]) 17:08, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

:Well nintendo should take meta away and replace him with Doc because Meta ruins the whole game one by one and he makes it so that any noob could just use him and spam the tornado over and over again. My main, Dr. Mario should be in more games! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 17:55, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
::In that case, they should have taken Pikachu out of Melee and Fox, Marth, and Falco from Brawl. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 18:10, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

== Issues with this entire page  ==

This comment is meant to be in no way opinionated unless otherwise stated later in this.
Now, I can see people who want ridiculous characters, and see people who want the Melee characters, and people who are just being newbish or acting like a troll.

On the subject of Pokemon, it honestly makes sense that the anime DOES, in fact have an impact on the smashers.
*Pikachu is obviously the mascot of Pokemon, and makes sense that the anime has had a significant influence on the popularity. Hell, Pokemon Yellow version was made so people can "Be Ash from the anime". It's hard to deny the anime's influence when Nintendo went as far as making a remake of Red/Blue to follow the anime's storyline. (Team Rocket from the anime, anyone?)
*Jigglypuff AND Mewtwo also follow this. Jigglypuff is popular because of her standing in the anime as "That pokemon that shows up every 5 episodes to put everyone to sleep". Hell, Jiggly even lasted multiple seasons in the anime.
**Before you cry foul, I actually did my research, unlike all of you. [http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/9N3S1hJ/What-is-the-most-popular-pokemon |This poll] shows the results of Jigglypuff being the second most popular Pokemon (among the given choices), behind Pikachu and not counting Other.
*Mewtwo is not nearly as popular as Smashers say he is. I saw him as the incredibly obscure guy in the First Gen. In fact, the first most people heard of him was Pokemon: the First Movie, unless you were lucky like me and bought The Strategy Guide. Note that THE MOVIE IS PART OF THE ANIME. How Mewtwo managed to remain popular until Melee, I'm not sure. Probably was in there just because of that first movie, and that movie was the most popular movie at the time.
*Now, we move to Lucario. Lucario, unlike Mewtwo, is actually popular in today's Pokemon fanbase. I'm not sure if this is the result of the movie or not, but he is pretty popular.
**Again, noting that if the reason Luke got in Brawl is because of the movie, remember that THE MOVIE IS ANIME, and that yes, it does have influence.

Now 3rd party characters is a touchy subject for everyone. In my opinion, there should be a limit of 1 3rd Party character per franchise, but knowing how popular the Sonic Series is getting paired with Mario (Olympic games), it wouldn't surprise me if Knuckles or Tails or Shadow got in.
*Megaman would make a great character in Smash Bros, but Capcom isn't particularly loyal to Nintendo to influence them.
*Anyone from Rare would be a good bet, considering Rare and Nintendo have been making games together for quite awhile (like Donkey Kong Country). I could see someone like BanjoKazooie making an appearance
*Pacman is NOT a good choice. Considering all he can do is eat dots, he has no viable move set, and Atari is pretty separate from Nintendo.
*As a general rule, they should have a home on the systems to stand a chance of being in Brawl. No, Master Chief is not a good choice.
*Geno is from that Square/Nintendo game, Super Mario RPG incase you were wondering. Also, incase you were wondering, he was one of the top Most Wanted characters from Brawl. This might be influenced by internet videos, or perhaps he's actually popular. Nonetheless, if you're expecting a Square character in Smash Bros, hes your best bet.

Now, we still have good Nintendo series Smash Bros has yet to touch on.
*Isaac from Golden Sun would be viable (we know he's still popular because of the E3 Demo he got). He's a good swordman type with the whole Psyonic gimmick

Also, face it, Mario is Nintendo's #1. You can all expect more Mario characters in Brawl. The same can go for Zelda, Pokemon (wether it be Mewtwo again or one of the other 500 pokemon), and Metroid (like Ridley). [[User:KingYoshi|KingYoshi]] ([[User talk:KingYoshi|talk]]) 21:33, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
:OK Sir, please do some reaserch about Pac Man before you say incorrect stuff about him. Pac Man has appeared in much more games than just his first one, but that game overshadowed the rest. He's appeared in numerous 3d Platformers, such as Pac Man World, where he's exibited many abilities, such as the Rev Role and the Butt Bounce. Furthermore, Pac Man was not made by Atari, one of Nintendo's old rivals, but Namco, which has had a very good relationship with Nintendo. In fact, Shigero Miyamato made one Pac Man game himself, and Pac Man has appeared in several Mario Kart games. I hate to be rude, and the rest of your argument is well done, but please do more research on Pac Man next time. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 06:05, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
:To sign your forum posts type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, not a name. If you want that name, make an account. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|<span style="color: red;">'''Dr.''' </span><span style="color: orange ">'''Pain''' </span><span style="color: yellow ">'''99''' </span>]] [[File:dp99.png]] [[User talk:Dr. Pain 99| <span style="color:blue">''Talk''</span>]] 21:25, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Done [[User:KingYoshi|KingYoshi]] ([[User talk:KingYoshi|talk]]) 21:33, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
:First of all, the anime '''should not''' influence who is in a SSB game. Yes it is rather unfortunate that Jigglypuff's role in the anime probably influenced it getting a spot in the first SSB game, but it should not. ''Smash Brothers'' is about video games, not anime. As such, any media outside of video games '''should not''' be considered when including a character for a SSB game. That poll you linked to is highly flawed and I do not trust it. First of all, it doesn't have every pokemon on it. How can you say Pikachu is the most popular pokemon when you didn't even give someone the chance to choose any pokemon they want. Secondly, only a little more than a 1000 people voted on that poll. As such, its results can not be considered the feelings of everyone when it represents a very small minority. Third, the poll mispells one of the pokemon's name, Infernape does not begin with an E, ruining this poll's legitamancy even farther. Also, did you not read what I said about significance > popularity? If a character like Jigglypuff has '''absolutely no''' significance in the games, it does not deserve to be in the Smash Bros. games, no matter how popular it is. It does not matter if a flawed poll of 1000 people said Jigglypuff is second most popular pokemon, Mewtwo is very significant to the games, Jigglypuff is not. I know no one who favorite pokemon is Jigglypuff or anyone that even likes it. Its evolution Wigglytuff is also very unpopular in competitive Pokemon. Mewtwo on the other hand, is not. So in both popularity and more importantly, significance, Mewtwo is much more deserving than Jigglypuff ever was. Just because you saw Mewtwo as "some obscure guy" doesn't mean everyone else does. Also, ''Melee'' came out after the anime was popular and I find it exteremly unlikely that the movie had any thing to do with influencing Mewtwo being in ''Melee''. It is an insult to those who played the Pokemon games that people only know Mewtwo from the movie. '''Everyone''' knew Mewtwo as the god pokemon in generation 1, not as "some obscured guy" from a crappy movie. So don't say that Mewtwo only was in ''Melee'' because of the movie, that is just showing how ignorant you are of its role in the games. Now fully read my last post and don't try to act like a flawed poll disproves my point about Jigglypuff being undeserving to be in the SSB games. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 22:09, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
::You can say what you want about what "should" constitute what characters are in the game, but none of it matters if those characters aren't popular.  The developers are going to put the popular characters in because that's where the money is.  Look at Final Fantasy VII.  In terms of importance, Vincent was pretty much not.  But he was cool, and he was popular, so he got a game.  Cait Sith was important, but everyone hated him, so he got shafted with a shitty voice actor in Vincent's game.  This is called business.  You can think that importance ought to come ahead of popularity, but the fact is it doesn't.  And, quite frankly, it shouldn't.  Developers should be trying to give consumers what they want, and if Jigglypuff is what they want, go for it.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 22:18, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
:::That can be your opinion on what matters more between significance and importance, but is Jigglypuff as popular as Vincent? Besides not being important in the games at all, I have not seen any proof that Jigglypuff is a popular enough pokemon to be in SSB. To my knowledge, Jigglypuff is also unpopular as a smasher in ''Brawl'', both among casual and competitive smashers. So I highly doubt that Jigglypuff is among the top 10 pokemon among the people's want list and I don't see how including Jigglypuff is going to bring Nintendo more money. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 22:44, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
::::The last part of your argument in flawed. Ganondorf and Link are also considered some of the worst characters, but should they be taken out of the next SSB? There are plenty of polls that you can look through, and in all of them Jigglypuff is pretty high. Just because the Anime has influence does not mean that it should be removed. Keep in mind that (to my knowledge) Nintendo has helped make the Anime, and there are plenty of influences to smash that are from TV shows or other non video game stuff (such as MK's final smash, Pikachu, Shadow Ball as Mewtwo's move, Lucario's appearence, etc) [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 06:10, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::::Why did some new user have to bring this back up? I really hate this debate. Now don't say the last part of my argument is flawed when it is not. Link and Ganondorf aren't insignificant or unpopular in their series. I brought up Jigglypuff's unpopularity as a smasher because a character's popularity as a smash character is probably what got borderline characters such as Sheik and Jigglypuff to return in Brawl (even Falco's popularity could have been what got the developers to bring him back and declone him) and is probably the main reason Mewtwo didn't return. But with Jigglypuff's nerf came the lost of the valuable popularity among competitive players, so for a borderline character such as Jigglypuff, its popularity is important for determining whether or not to bring it back in the next smash game. Now show me these so called polls that shows Jigglypuff is popular, and they better not be flawed like the one KingYoshi linked to. It cannot be a legit poll unless it allows a person to choose any damn pokemon they pleased, not just a select few that are presumed to be "popular". Why do you want the anime to have influence? ''Smash Bros.'' is a game about '''video game characters''', not '''anime characters'''. Therefore, all media outside of video games should not be factor in. Shadow Ball being Mewtwo's move has nothing to do with the anime or movie, he can learn the move in the video games. Stop saying Lucario is only in ''Brawl'' because of some stupid movie. Has it occurred to you that Lucario has some significance in the games as well as popularity? Also, Pikachu is the mascot of Pokemon, so stop saying it is a smasher just because of the anime. Just like Salad told KingYoshi on the IRC, if the anime was so influential, why isn't Meowth a smasher? Very simply, it has not influenced since the first ''Smash Bros.'' nor shall it ever again. There are also very few, if any, references to things outside of video games in ''Smash Bros.'' The only one you listed that is plausible is the naming of Meta Knight's final smash, the rest is you just being highly speculative. So stop trying to defend the anime, it hasn't influenced since the first SSB and it should never. Any one who does believe the anime should be influential is being highly ignorant of the fact that the Pokemon games came first and are far, far, FAR more important than the anime. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 06:49, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
::::::Wait a second right there. Pikachu was not the mascot of Pokemon until after the Anime started. Before that, the mascots were Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur. Now, about Mewtwo, yes, he can learn Shadowball, but not naturually. He has to first have a TM or something. About Meowth, he was in fact considered as a character for SSB, but that would have been unfair to all the other series and they didn't have the time. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 18:26, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Who said Mewtwo has to learn Shadowball naturally? Very simply, a pokemon does not need to learn the move naturally to have it as one of their special moves. Look at Pikachu, it can only learn Skull Bash though a TM in Generation 1, yet it has Skull Bash as one of it specials. So your argument about Mewtwo having Shadow Ball only because of the movie fails. Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise were never mascots of the series, they were each a mascot of one of the generation 1 games, not the mascot of the entire series. Its debatable on what made Nintendo decide to make Pikachu the mascot of the series, but the fact is it has been the mascot of the series since generation 1 and therefore its inclusion in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' is based on that, not the anime. Finally, if the anime was so influential, why wasn't Meowth in ''Melee'' instead of Pichu or included in ''Brawl'' instead of the Pokemon Trainer, a character that existed only in the games? Simply, the anime lost any possible influence after the first SSB and the anime has long lost the popularity it had back in the late 90s. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 18:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


I also think that they should add dr.eggman from sonic,megaman,bowser jr,waluigi and why not garland and warrior of light from the original final fantasy on nes i whould also love the idea of having lololo and lalala as one playable character like ice climbers oh and remember the little dragon from bust a move why not im also good with that.They should also put the guy from castlevania with is whip i don't remember is name -_- and why not dr.mario if they have toon link thats pretty much like normal link well why not the italian plumming dr. again? Why not daisy. I also understand the lucario thing but i think that they should re add mewtwo. I whould like them to go back to the roots with FF characters,megaman characters lololo and lalala,bust a move's little dragon,castlevania,why not little Mac from punch out!.And in my opinion i would love for them to go back to refreshing new characters like starfy from the legendary starfy on NDS,also all the koopalings as one playable character example when you chose the koopalings you can chose after that wich one you want out of the 7,AiAi from super monkey balls whould be great,oh! and this would be so funny why not one worm from the game worms armageddon.You know who would be great also Earthworm jim,dr.willy from megaman the snowman from clay fighters,King K.Rool donkey kong country's villain,Banjo Kazooie,bomberman,gex from the nintendo 64 system remember the under cover gecko spy well i do and i hope nintendo does too,more characters from sonic:tails knuckles and shadow,medusa from kid icarus,birdo from mario bros 2,Wart the last boss from super mario bros 2 remember the fat toad/frog,little funny but why not paper mario,spyro the dragon,crash bandicoot and finaly  the main character from animal crossing?.-Sam the man 12:35 p.m 17/07/2010 <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:173.178.218.137|173.178.218.137]] ([[User talk:173.178.218.137|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/173.178.218.137|contribs]])  16:34, July 17, 2010 (UTC)</small>
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