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| ::::::Oh yeah, and Peach can kill now. Thats why she was as low as she was in vBrawl. [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 01:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC) | | ::::::Oh yeah, and Peach can kill now. Thats why she was as low as she was in vBrawl. [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 01:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC) |
| :::::::Indeed.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 01:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC) | | :::::::Indeed.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 01:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC) |
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| One of the goals behind B+ is to make all characters tourney-viable and kinda remove the need for tiers. That's all I'm saying. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 04:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :Well, you know there's bound to be a tier anyways.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 12:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| ::There will always be tiers, but the spread between the characters in Brawl+ is likely to be much smaller than in Brawl. I wouldn't be surprised if they did come up with a Brawl+ tier list with only three categories: "slightly better," "standard," and "slightly worse." [[User:Meta-K|Meta-Kirb]] ([[User talk:Meta-K|talk]]) 14:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| Oh, and Game and Watch defenitely won't go up. Most people (and I) beleive that he is just too light and one combo on him will lose his stock. He also has to be able to predict very well just to land a samsh attack.[[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :::He's a glass cannon with great combo potential. They even deliberately made his aerials even more broken than in vBrawl, GHN said so himself. He can take stocks just as fast as he loses them, if not faster. Plus, his weight actually saves him from some combos. Not saying he's gonna skyrocket but he'll rise a little for sure. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 16:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::But hes not a glass cannon because he relies solely on tech chases. Do you really think that a player at high damage is just gonna leave them selves open for a smash? Of course not. His aerials may be broken, but just making a wall of bairs or nairs isn't gonna help you out much when it comes to killing. As anyone who has experience in vB and B+ metagame (Like Hylian) tand they will tell you GnW is very iffy in B+. His weight MAY save you from SOME combos, but if you get hit, you better know how to SDI like a pro because he gets comboed much easier than you think. He also can't live long past 100% because bucket braking got removed due to higher hitstun. And the player would have to get really campy to survive and just put damage on the opponent, which is what B+ creators wanted to remove. Killing was his main problem in vB and it hasn't changed at all since B+ was made. [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 18:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::You're talking. About WoP's with aerials. Not being a legit kill tactic. When that's what Jiggs was born to do. GnW can do it too, but he's got ground combos to help too. And you say his combo's flaws are the fact that they're tech-dependent...does that stop SilentSpectre from doing his combos? [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 20:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::::Not saying its not a legit kill tactic, i'm saying is very situational and only works at low %s and why would an opponent be off stage at low percents. By tech dependant, I'm guessing you mean tech chasing? Yeah, SS can do his combos, but its Falcon and his moveset was made for that kinda thing, and he has a reliable ending kill move (the knee) while GnWs moveset wasnt made for that, but more as a wall and he doesnt have a kill move to end a combo tech chase. his fair is his best and it only kills past 100% when edgeguarding. [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 01:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::::Getting an opponent offstage at low % isn't as hard as you're making it out to be. Now, LAUNCHING them offstage would be tough, but there are plenty of other methods to set them up for an easy WoP at low %. The Dthrow > Dsmash combo is still in Brawl+ and works great for that purpose. Yes, the Dsmash is avoidable via teching, but how often do you see people actually landing that tech? Not often. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 03:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::::::Actually, as long as someone knows it's GnW's best throw, then they auto shield at the right time, because they know its an awesome throw and tech chases easily. [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 03:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
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| I only have one question, why did they start actually changing Captain falcon? With all the other changes alone, he's already a great character(Mid tier at least.). Up air combo's to Knee's are pretty much guaranteed to knock a stock off. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 18:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
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| == ATTN: Brawl+ Critics ==
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| If you're one of the people who refuse to try Brawl+ but still hate it, I have something you should read. [http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=21654 Enjoy]. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 17:58, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
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| == My opinion ==
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| Well, its a good idea. I'm reading the Brawl+ page right now.
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| *No random [[tripping]]. Certain moves and bananas will still trip.
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| :The best part. Why was tripping in there in the first place?
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| *A new character select screen with independent icons for [[Zelda (SSBB)|Zelda]], [[Sheik (SSBB)|Sheik]], [[Zero Suit Samus (SSBB)|Zero Suit Samus]], and all Pokémon Trainer Pokémon.
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| :Not a bad idea, makes it more convinient.
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| *Decrease of hitlag in long hitlag moves, such as Captain Falcon's sweetspotted forward aerial and Marth tipped forward smash.
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| :Bad idea. This is one of the parts of the strategy, and it fits into character balancing. I'd make this stay, especially on the stronger moves.
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| *Fully independent versions of [[Squirtle (SSBB)|Squirtle]], [[Ivysaur (SSBB)|Ivysaur]], and [[Charizard (SSBB)|Charizard]], though [[Pokemon Trainer (SSBB)|Pokemon Trainer]] can still be selected. For the stand-alone characters, [[Stamina (stat)|Stamina]] has been removed, and the Pokemon will not cycle upon [[revival platform|revival]] or via [[Pokemon Change]]. The Pokemon Trainer will not appear in the background or the victory screen if players choose to play an independent Pokemon.
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| :Good idea, but I don't know why you need to get rid of the Trainer.
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| *[[L-canceling]] (Auto-cancel) (otherwise known as ALR or Aerial Lag Reduction).
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| :NO!!! You must suffer the consequences of missing an attack.
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| *[[Dash cancel]]. -Crouch to cancel a dash.
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| :Why? You must suffer the consequences of dashing! You might as well just dash everywhere!
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| *No [[replay]] time limit. Replay icon still does not appear if the game is longer than three minutes, but if Z is pressed the replay may be saved normally.
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| :Sounds like it would cause a crash.
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| *Shield during [[Dash-dancing|dash dance]].
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| :I thought you could already do this? Oh yeah, you skid. Does that mean you can shield while skidding? Meh, I like it.
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| *No [[Stale Move Negation]].
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| :Why would you even consider this? Move Decay is GENIOUS. Stops spamming, and it adds the strategy of keeping moves fresh.
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| *Stage freezing. -Stops all stage movement, potentially allowing for more [[neutral stages]]. Only applies for:
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| **[[Luigi's Mansion]] - mansion is always destroyed and platforms never disappear
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| **[[WarioWare, Inc.]] - stage is always in original form
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| **[[Spear Pillar]] - [[Dialga]], [[Palkia]], and [[Cresselia]] stop appearing all together, removing stage hazards
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| **[[Pokemon Stadium 2]] - Stage does not change forms
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| :I dunno about the Pokemon Stadium, and why is Luigis mansion always destroyed? I'd personally just keep the platforms permanent/get rid of them.
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| *No Auto [[Sweet spot (ledge)|sweetspot]] ledges.
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| :Wait, does this mean that everyone sweet spots from the same distance? I've always thought that you should have to hit the grab button to grab the ledge, but that'd be hard to code.
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| *Lag-less [[Edge|edges]].
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| :Call me a n00b, but I'm not sure what you mean here. No lag upon grabbing a ledge?
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| *MAD ([[Air dodging #In Super Smash Bros. Melee|Melee air dodge]]), which enables [[Wavedashing]]. (This is not in the standard "Brawl Plussery," but can be added in using certain codes.)
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| :Hate. Wave dashing=fail
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| *Incorporates the File Replacement Code used in downloading [[Texture Hack|texture hacks]], meaning Brawl+ users can easily download pre-made textures with no extra codes required.
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| :Cool.
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| *The [[Online Practice Stage]] is now loaded whenever [[New Pork City]] is selected. ([[Versus Mode]] only)
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| :Why New Pork City? Couldn't you have hacked in an icon for it? You could've two icons for NPC, but one of them loads up the practic stage (since the practice stage doesn't have an icon)
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| ===Gameplay Tweaks===
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| *Character balancing. [[Captain Falcon (SSBB)|Captain Falcon]], for example, has been significantly improved.
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| :Haven't read through all the changes yet, but I like this part.
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| *Faster overall gameplay speed.
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| :Good, very good.
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| *Increased [[Falling speed]].
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| :Not good. I like air battles.
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| *Increased [[hitstun]], allowing for truly inescapable [[Combo|combos]].
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| :Good good.
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| *[[Tech]] window enlarged.
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| :Bad. This is one of the skills of Brawl that you need to have.
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| *Greater window to dash dance.
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| :What window? Are you refering to how quickly your character turns around?
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| *[[Perfect shield]] window decreased.
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| :Good.
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| *Increased Shield Stun, meaning a character hit while using their shield is forced to stay shielded for a longer amount of time.
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| :Bad. No counterattacks this way.
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| *Many moves received slight alterations (e.g.: [[Bowser (SSBB)|Bowser's]] forward smash now produces a fire effect on contact with the opponent and [[Wizard's Foot]] gives another jump for recovery).
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| :Once again, I'm gonna need to check these alterations.
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| Oh, and on the subject of combos, you should make characters heavier, so that KOs happen at around 200-300% instead of 100%. Then there'd be more comboing your opponent. You could also make characters accelerate to the knockback speed of an attack instead of simply going straigh to it (acceleration speed might vary), allowing you a brief window while your opponent is going slow to hit them again. Just a thought. [[User:Paradox Juice|Paradox Juice]] ([[User talk:Paradox Juice|talk]]) 00:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
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| While I don't mind most of these ideas, I seriously question the Wizard's Foot extra jump. Why? It was an oops in Melee. Why are people using a mistake to make characters better? They might as well put back in Bowser's flame cancel, or give the same "fix" to Falcon. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Toomai|cntrbs]]</small> 01:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
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| :Ganondorf didn't get as buffed as CF did thanks to B+ physics, so this does give him at least a little more help. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 02:51, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
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| it sounds cool but why didnt they do anything about mk and snake?i mean my brother(who sucks) mains snake he doesnt shield never uses tilts specials or up and down smash basicly he uses that combo on me until i die or pulls out a bazooka when im not lookin snake was just one of those people who great theyre broken lets beat up captain falcon but why is he in there? i say if they need a third party character look at star wars or something and sonics an idiot to BEN SEDAI
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| I have an interesting idea (that is sure to fail). We can have a new mode where the stickers you collect can actually be in effect. You can save up to 2 for each chaacter, and there are no item stickers allowed! What do you think? [[User:Learner4|Learner4]] ([[User talk:Learner4|talk]]) 14:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
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| :That would be neat, and would bring in a Pokemon-style preparation element to the gameplay. However, if I understand Brawl's dual-layer disc physics correctly, it cannot be done. Stickers are part of the SSE, while all multiplayer data is on the disc's other half. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> <small>[[Special:Contributions/Toomai|cntrbs]]</small> 17:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
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| Codec Freuquency 1.21
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| Dont listen to Ben sedai because hes full of bull**** because he sucks as every1 and when I pull out a bazooka it will be in full view of his fat *** Solid 007 Out.
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| :Was that really neccessary? [[SW:NPA|I suggest you apologize and stop this habit.]][[User:L33tSilvie|<span style="color:gold;">L33t</span>]] [[User talk:L33tSilvie|<span style="color:silver;">Silvie</span>]] <sup><span style="color:Green;">[[Special:Contributions/L33tSilvie|I see wat u did thar...</span></sup>]] 00:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
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| :lol that would be my brotherBEN SEDAI
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| == So um yeah before you say you don't llike something about Brawl+ ==
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| Play it.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 13:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
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| :Played it. Brawl+ is awesome, but I still like Brawl better.[[User:L33tSilvie|<span style="color:gold;">L33t</span>]] [[User talk:L33tSilvie|<span style="color:silver;">Silvie</span>]] <sup><span style="color:Green;">[[Special:Contributions/L33tSilvie|I see wat u did thar...</span></sup>]] 14:41, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
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| == This is how Brawl was meant to be played. ==
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| [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PjJ9Rwk9iY Here.]] An amazing match that shows the true potential of Brawl. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 18:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
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| :Correction: That is how Brawl+ is meant to be played. [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 02:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
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| ::The red Marth made a couple mistakes, but he still won, so congrats to him. - <font face="times new roman">[[User:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:purple">'''GalaxiaD'''</span>]]</font><font face="times new roman"> <sup>[[User Talk:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:black">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup></font> 16:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
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| == Brawl+ officially wins ==
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| Roy can be somewhat played(hacked Marth), and Falcon has a nipple spike.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 21:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
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| :Link please. Unless it's just a texture. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 01:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
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| ::http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234839 '''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 00:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
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