Editing Dark Dive
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|image=[[File:Ganondorf Up B SSBU.gif|300px]] | |image=[[File:Ganondorf Up B SSBU.gif|300px]] | ||
|caption=Ganondorf uses Dark Dive in ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''. | |caption=Ganondorf uses Dark Dive in ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''. | ||
|user= | |user=Ganondorf | ||
|universe={{uv|The Legend of Zelda}} | |universe={{uv|The Legend of Zelda}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
'''Dark Dive''' ({{ja|雷神掌|Raijinshō}}, ''{{s|wikipedia|Raijin}} Palm'') is [[Ganondorf]]'s [[ | '''Dark Dive''' ({{ja|雷神掌|Raijinshō}}, ''{{s|wikipedia|Raijin}} Palm'') is the [[up special move]] used by [[Ganondorf]], introduced in ''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''. It's similar in function to [[Captain Falcon]]'s [[Falcon Dive]], but instead of the opponent getting hurt by fire, they will be shocked by electricity if Ganondorf connects with them. Like his side special, [[Flame Choke]], it counts as a grab, so it cannot be [[shield]]ed or [[counterattack|countered]]. Like the Falcon Dive, it can be used repeatedly if successful, and Ganondorf can grab a ledge at the peak height of this move when facing the other direction. This helps to sweet spot and prevents some forms of [[edge momentum shifting]] such as the [[cape glide]] in ''Brawl''. However, the move suffers from predictability, poor distance, lack of protection, and in the case of Brawl, low attack power. | ||
==Overview== | ==Overview== | ||
[[File:Ganondorfbupmove.jpg|Dark Dive in ''[[Melee]]''|thumb]] | [[File:Ganondorfbupmove.jpg|Dark Dive in ''[[Melee]]''|thumb]] | ||
===''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''=== | ||
The move itself is essentially a clone move of Falcon Dive, except that there are electric effects. Ganondorf rises up, catching opponents that are above him, zaps them, and then knocks the opponent away with an explosion for a total of 17% damage, and can use this move again after if it is successful. Also, as with most moves Ganondorf has compared to Falcon, the move is stronger than Falcon Dive, and is easier to KO foes with (though Falcon Dive is still strong by itself), reliably killing around 150% from the center of [[Final Destination]]. It is interesting to note that, unlike Falcon Dive, Dark Dive can harm other characters (in addition to the victim Ganondorf has latched on to) via the electrical hitboxes, making it harder for an opponent to hit Ganondorf out of this move. However, it cannot grab or affect foes on a ledge, making this move prone to [[edge-guard]]ing and [[edgehogging]]. | The move itself is essentially a clone move of Falcon Dive, except that there are electric effects. Ganondorf rises up, catching opponents that are above him, zaps them, and then knocks the opponent away with an explosion for a total of 17% damage, and can use this move again after if it is successful. Also, as with most moves Ganondorf has compared to Falcon, the move is stronger than Falcon Dive, and is easier to KO foes with (though Falcon Dive is still strong by itself), reliably killing around 150% from the center of [[Final Destination]]. It is interesting to note that, unlike Falcon Dive, Dark Dive can harm other characters (in addition to the victim Ganondorf has latched on to) via the electrical hitboxes, making it harder for an opponent to hit Ganondorf out of this move. However, it cannot grab or affect foes on a ledge, making this move prone to [[edge-guard]]ing and [[edgehogging]]. | ||
Using Dark Dive on an opponent below stage level will often [[stage spike]] them. While this can punish a failed edge-guard, the opponent can also [[tech]] the spike and then strike back, as they can move before Ganondorf can | Using Dark Dive on an opponent below stage level will often [[stage spike]] them. While this can punish a failed edge-guard, the opponent can also [[tech]] the spike and then strike back, as they can move before Ganondorf can. | ||
===''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''=== | ||
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===''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]''=== | ||
[[File:SSB4 Dark Dive.jpg|Dark Dive in {{for3ds}}|thumb|left]] | [[File:SSB4 Dark Dive.jpg|Dark Dive in {{for3ds}}|thumb|left]] | ||
[[File:Dark_Dive_SSB4.jpeg|Dark Dive in {{forwiiu}}|thumb]] | [[File:Dark_Dive_SSB4.jpeg|Dark Dive in {{forwiiu}}|thumb|right]] | ||
Dark Dive was initially nerfed from its ''Brawl'' iteration due to the removal of the mid-grab's armor, making it much easier to intercept and edge-guard. However, due to the removal of ''Brawl''{{'}}s mechanic of fast acting out of [[hitstun]] when knocked short distances, the grabbed opponent can no longer attack him once he releases them. Ganondorf now aesthetically grabs the opponent with one hand instead of two. | Dark Dive was initially nerfed from its ''Brawl'' iteration due to the removal of the mid-grab's armor, making it much easier to intercept and edge-guard. However, due to the removal of ''Brawl''{{'}}s mechanic of fast acting out of [[hitstun]] when knocked short distances, the grabbed opponent can no longer attack him once he releases them. Ganondorf now aesthetically grabs the opponent with one hand instead of two. | ||
Dark Dive's power was improved in [[1.1.3]], where the grab does 13.8% damage with significantly improved knockback, and is now a decent [[out of shield]] move. However, the power increase is still quite underwhelming compared to ''Melee'', as it | Dark Dive's power was improved in [[1.1.3]], where the grab does 13.8% damage with significantly improved knockback, and is now a decent [[out of shield]] move. However, the power increase is still quite underwhelming compared to ''Melee'', as it doesn't gain KO potential until around roughly 200% from Final Destination's center and 140% near the ledge. | ||
{{ | {{clear}} | ||
===''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]''=== | ||
Dark Dive was buffed considerably from ''Smash 4'': its grab damage was increased to 16.6%, and the throw's power was drastically increased to KO at 89% near the edge of [[Final Destination]] and 130% from the center, being much more powerful than it was in ''Melee''. The fiery explosion that was created was changed to a vibrant burst of purple magic, now possessing the electric effect. | Dark Dive was buffed considerably from ''Smash 4'': its grab damage was increased to 16.6%, and the throw's power was drastically increased to KO at 89% near the edge of [[Final Destination]] and 130% from the center, being much more powerful than it was in ''Melee''. The throw also has slightly less ending lag, allowing Ganondorf to act more quickly out of the move, although not enough to prevent opponents from [[tech]]ing a stage spike and punishing Ganondorf. The fiery explosion that was created was changed to a vibrant burst of purple magic, now possessing the electric effect. | ||
However, when executed from the ground, the grabbox is only active after Ganondorf leaves the ground. This causes it to whiff against many small opponents on the ground, especially if they're crouching. In addition, Ganondorf leaps back much farther out of a throw, worsening his already poor recovery even further; this allows opponents to repeatedly jump into the grab, eventually causing Ganondorf to leap too far away to be able to reach the stage. | However, when executed from the ground, the grabbox is only active after Ganondorf leaves the ground. This causes it to whiff against many small opponents on the ground, especially if they're crouching. In addition, Ganondorf leaps back much farther out of a throw, worsening his already poor recovery even further; this allows opponents to repeatedly jump into the grab, eventually causing Ganondorf to leap too far away to be able to reach the stage. | ||
{{clear}} | |||
==Instructional quotes== | ==Instructional quotes== | ||
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|ssb4-udesc= Jump up and grab opponents, and then launch them. | |ssb4-udesc= Jump up and grab opponents, and then launch them. | ||
|ssbuchar=Ganondorf | |ssbuchar=Ganondorf | ||
|ssbudesc= Leaps upward and grabs opponents, electrocuting and launching them. It | |ssbudesc= Leaps upward and grabs opponents, electrocuting and launching them. It can't be blocked by a shield. | ||
}} | }} | ||
==Customization== | ==Customization== | ||
Special Move customization was added in ''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]''. These are the variations: | Special Move customization was added in ''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]''. These are the variations: | ||
{{CustomSet|Ganon|Up|name1=Dark Dive|desc1=Jump up and | {{CustomSet|Ganon|Up|name1=Dark Dive|desc1=Jump up and grab an enemy,and then shock and launch them.|name2=Dark Fists|desc2=Punch opponents into the air, and then hit them in midair to send them higher.|name3=Dark Vault|desc3=Jump extra high, but you can only grab at the beginning or end of the attack.}} | ||
# '''Dark Dive''': Default. | # '''Dark Dive''': Default. | ||
# '''Dark Fists''': Instead of grabbing the enemy, Ganondorf gains a hitbox on the move's start-up. The first hit, dealing 6% damage, is thrown before the jump, and has set knockback. If it connects it will usually chain victims into the second hit, dealing 11% damage for a total of 17% damage, which is thrown at the apex of the jump and has formidable damage and knockback, able to KO as low as 80% anywhere on the stage and 110% from underneath the stage while the opponent is on ground level, making it very risky to intercept. It is generally considered superior to Dark Dive and Dark Vault due to having legitimate offensive use, improved distance thanks its somewhat slow start-up allowing for better horizontal reach, and the start-up also possessing [[armor]] which further bolsters its anti-[[edge-guarding]] capabilities and can even be used as a pseudo-[[counter]]. However, the lack of a grab means that the move cannot be used in rapid succession should it hit an opponent. | # '''Dark Fists''': Instead of grabbing the enemy, Ganondorf gains a hitbox on the move's start-up. The first hit, dealing 6% damage, is thrown before the jump, and has set knockback. If it connects it will usually chain victims into the second hit, dealing 11% damage for a total of 17% damage, which is thrown at the apex of the jump and has formidable damage and knockback, able to KO as low as 80% anywhere on the stage and 110% from underneath the stage while the opponent is on ground level, making it very risky to intercept. It is generally considered superior to Dark Dive and Dark Vault due to having legitimate offensive use, improved distance thanks its somewhat slow start-up allowing for better horizontal reach, and the start-up also possessing [[armor]] which further bolsters its anti-[[edge-guarding]] capabilities and can even be used as a pseudo-[[counter]]. However, the lack of a grab means that the move cannot be used in rapid succession should it hit an opponent. | ||
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*{{buff|Dark Dive travels more vertical distance than Falcon Dive in ''Melee'' and more horizontal distance since ''Brawl''.}} | *{{buff|Dark Dive travels more vertical distance than Falcon Dive in ''Melee'' and more horizontal distance since ''Brawl''.}} | ||
*{{nerf|Dark Dive travels less vertical distance than Falcon Dive after ''Melee''.}} | *{{nerf|Dark Dive travels less vertical distance than Falcon Dive after ''Melee''.}} | ||
*{{buff|After ''Melee'', Dark Dive hits with an uppercut that deals 7% darkness damage if he | *{{buff|After ''Melee'', Dark Dive hits with an uppercut that deals 7% darkness damage if he doesn't grab the opponent earlier in the move, whereas Falcon Dive lacks such a hitbox.}} | ||
*{{nerf|In ''Ultimate'', the grabbox on the grounded version is significantly harder to land, especially against grounded opponents, limiting its utility as an [[out of shield]] option.}} | *{{nerf|In ''Ultimate'', the grabbox on the grounded version is significantly harder to land, especially against grounded opponents, limiting its utility as an [[out of shield]] option.}} | ||
*{{change|Completely different custom moves.}} | *{{change|Completely different custom moves.}} | ||
==Gallery== | ==Gallery== | ||
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Ganondorf SSBU Skill Preview Up Special.png|Dark Dive as shown by the Move List in ''Ultimate''. | Ganondorf SSBU Skill Preview Up Special.png|Dark Dive as shown by the Move List in ''Ultimate''. | ||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
==Trivia== | ==Trivia== | ||
*In ''Melee'', victims | *In ''Melee'', victims don't visibly wince from this attack, with the exception of {{SSBM|Yoshi}}. | ||
*In ''Melee'', the multi-hit hitboxes of the move may fail to connect on characters of a significantly different size than Ganondorf, such as a tiny Kirby or a [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqDELm3QfI giant Wire Frame]. When this happens, the move deals significantly less damage and ends faster. | *In ''Melee'', the multi-hit hitboxes of the move may fail to connect on characters of a significantly different size than Ganondorf, such as a tiny Kirby or a [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqDELm3QfI giant Wire Frame]. When this happens, the move deals significantly less damage and ends faster. | ||
*In ''Brawl'', the grab box can not break a [[Smash Ball]], along with Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive, though the uppercut can break them and the grab box can break targets in [[Target Smash!!]] and hit enemies and Bosses in the Subspace Emissary and in the Boss Battles. | *In ''Brawl'', the grab box can not break a [[Smash Ball]], along with Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive, though the uppercut can break them and the grab box can break targets in [[Target Smash!!]] and hit enemies and Bosses in the Subspace Emissary and in the Boss Battles. | ||
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[[Category:Ganondorf (SSB4)]] | [[Category:Ganondorf (SSB4)]] | ||
[[Category:Ganondorf (SSBU)]] | [[Category:Ganondorf (SSBU)]] | ||