Editing Chain grab
From SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
The edit can be undone. Please check the comparison below to verify that this is what you want to do, and then publish the changes below to finish undoing the edit.
Latest revision | Your text | ||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{ArticleIcons|ssb=y|ssbm=y|ssbb=y|unofficial=y}} | {{ArticleIcons|ssb=y|ssbm=y|ssbb=y|unofficial=y}} | ||
{{redirect|CG|the {{SSBB|Mario}} technique abbreviated as "CG"|Cape glide}} | {{redirect|CG|the {{SSBB|Mario}} technique abbreviated as "CG"|Cape glide}} | ||
{{merge|Infinite|chain grab is type of infinite}} | |||
A '''chain grab''', also referred to as a '''chain throw''' or abbreviated as '''CG''', refers to a form of [[infinite]] that is a series of [[grab]]s and [[throw]]s that the victim cannot escape. Generally, a player [[throw]]s the opponent in a specific direction (most commonly down or forward), chases the opponent's [[directional influence]], then grabs the opponent in midair before they can [[tech]]. {{SSBM|Sheik}} and the [[Ice Climbers]] are examples of characters who rely heavily on chain grabs. Due to the changes to [[hitstun]] and the more severe [[stale-move negation]] in ''Brawl,'' chain-grabbing is overall more prevalent. Generally, [[fastfaller]]s, [[weight|heavyweights]], and large characters tend to be more vulnerable to chain grabs than floaty characters, lightweights, and smaller characters. Some circumstances can enable a chain grab to be a [[zero-to-death combo]]. The [[Ice Climbers]] are particularly potent at this. It is one of the two advanced techniques that were in the first three ''Smash'' games but no longer possible in ''Smash 4''; the other is [[team wobble]]. The inability to do chain grabs has been carried over into ''Ultimate''. | |||
[[File:SSBB King Dedede Chaingrab Infinite.gif|thumb|200px|King Dedede's infinite chain grab on Donkey Kong in ''Brawl'']] | [[File:SSBB King Dedede Chaingrab Infinite.gif|thumb|200px|King Dedede's infinite chain grab on Donkey Kong in ''Brawl'']] | ||
==Controversy== | ==Controversy== | ||
Line 13: | Line 9: | ||
However, competitive players generally see it as a valid technique and accept its usage, as it's simply a [[combo]] that is performed by grabbing, and that characters like {{SSBM|Sheik}}, the [[Ice Climbers]], and {{SSBB|King Dedede}} need it to overcome other deficiencies in high-level matches, provided it is not used in extreme excess to [[stall]] (i.e. using King Dedede's standing infinite beyond 300% damage, which is well beyond the damage needed for Dedede to KO the opponent with his back throw). Competitive players additionally generally have a "play to win" mindset, meaning players are expected to utilize whatever legal means necessary in-game to win. | However, competitive players generally see it as a valid technique and accept its usage, as it's simply a [[combo]] that is performed by grabbing, and that characters like {{SSBM|Sheik}}, the [[Ice Climbers]], and {{SSBB|King Dedede}} need it to overcome other deficiencies in high-level matches, provided it is not used in extreme excess to [[stall]] (i.e. using King Dedede's standing infinite beyond 300% damage, which is well beyond the damage needed for Dedede to KO the opponent with his back throw). Competitive players additionally generally have a "play to win" mindset, meaning players are expected to utilize whatever legal means necessary in-game to win. | ||
Possibly as a result of the controversy surrounding the technique, ''SSB4'' has removed chain grabbing by granting 70 frames of invulnerability against grabs to a character who is thrown or grab-released. There is an argument about the change, but the general agreement is that it was for the best even in competitive play, due to the aforementioned polarizing effect chain throws tend to have on matchups, and them being generally regarded as spectator and player-unfriendly. | Possibly as a result of the controversy surrounding the technique, ''SSB4'' has removed chain grabbing by granting 70 frames of invulnerability against grabs to a character who is thrown or grab-released. There is an argument about the change, but the general agreement is that it was for the best even in competitive play, due to the aforementioned polarizing effect chain throws tend to have on matchups, and them being generally regarded as spectator and player-unfriendly. | ||
==Examples== | ==Examples== | ||
{{Cleanup|There's far too many examples here, and the entirety of this section is poorly written. Brawl is fixed.}} | |||
Characters with well-known chain grabs include the following. | Characters with well-known chain grabs include the following. | ||
===''[[Super Smash Bros.]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros.]]''=== | ||
*{{SSB|Pikachu}}: Can chain most characters with its | *{{SSB|Pikachu}}: Can chain most characters with its [[forward throw]] at low percentages. | ||
*{{SSB|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain all characters to extreme percents by release grabbing with his | *{{SSB|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain all characters to extreme percents by release grabbing with his [[forward throw]] (known as the [[infinite throw trap]]). This technique caused moderate controversy within the Smash 64 community, as it was seen as "[[cheap]]" by some. {{SSB|Yoshi}} and {{SSB|Ness}} are the most difficult to get out of the chain grab due to their odd double jumps. Pikachu has by far the easiest time escaping because its [[up special]], [[Quick Attack]], has [[invincibility frames]]. Donkey Kong players usually do this in order to either set up a stronger or better throw (as each grab release does 8% damage) or to make it so DK is closer to the edge and can back throw instead of up throw, as the back throw has much more power. | ||
*{{SSB|Fox}}: Can chain | *{{SSB|Fox}}: Can chain throw forward and backward at low percentages. | ||
[[File:SSB64 Greenhouse Combo.gif|thumb|{{Sm|Isai}} performing the [[Greenhouse]] combo.]] | [[File:SSB64 Greenhouse Combo.gif|thumb|{{Sm|Isai}} performing the [[Greenhouse]] combo.]] | ||
The other main part of chain grabs can be seen on the "Combo Tent" portion of [[Hyrule Castle]]. | The other main part of chain grabs can be seen on the "Combo Tent" portion of [[Hyrule Castle]]. {{SSB|Yoshi}} and {{SSB|Samus}} cannot do this due to their overly slow grabs (however, they can throw into a down aerial or a similar aerial to combo). {{SSB|Kirby}}, {{SSB|Ness}}, and {{SSB|Jigglypuff}} cannot do this due to their back throws having too much knockback to be able to combo before the opponent escapes [[hitstun]]. The majority requires down aerials and back throws. However, {{SSB|Pikachu}}, {{SSB|Fox}}, {{SSB|Captain Falcon}}, {{SSB|Mario}}, and {{SSB|Luigi}} can all perform chain grabs on this portion of the stage. | ||
===''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''=== | ===''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]''=== | ||
*{{SSBM|Sheik}}: Can chain throw most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her down throw from as little as 0% to medium or high percentages, as high as 90% if the opponent's DI is poor. On other characters, it can reliably tech chase to high percents. This doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee, however, due to her down throw sending her opponents on a more horizontal angle, disallowing regrabs except at very low percentages. | |||
*{{SSBM|Sheik}}: Can chain throw most characters ( | *{{SSBM|Marth}} and {{SSBM|Roy}}: Up throw can chain throw Fox and Falco from 0% to about 60%. Marth can also chaingrab Jigglypuff with forwarding throws and down throws until about 20%, depending on DI. | ||
*{{SSBM|Marth}} and {{SSBM|Roy}}: | *{{SSBM|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a down aerial as Popo down throws the opponent, forcing them to stand up and allowing them to be grabbed again. Wobbling, which is inescapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf with down throw until about 50%. | ||
*{{SSBM|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a | *{{SSBM|Peach}}: Can chain throw fast fallers, floaty characters, and heavyweights at high percentages with her down throw. She can also chain grab with her up throw against everyone at 0% (briefly) and fast fallers at around 40%. | ||
*{{SSBM|Peach}}: | *{{SSBM|Captain Falcon}}: Can pseudo chain throw with down throw against Marth, Sheik, and Roy from 0% to about 20%. It can easily be escaped with good DI. Up throw can also chain throw Fox/Falco/Falcon from about 50% to about 80%. This chain can be escaped with DI, however. | ||
*{{SSBM|Mewtwo}}: Can chain throw with its | *{{SSBM|Mewtwo}}: Can chain throw with its down throw on large characters like Bowser from 0-50%. Mewtwo can also chain throw fast fallers like Fox, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon and sometimes Roy, giving him an advantage against these characters. | ||
*{{SSBM|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and | *{{SSBM|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and Falcon with the up throw at low to mid percentages. Donkey Kong can also chain throw Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon with the forward throw if he connects it into his up throw. | ||
*{{SSBM|Fox}}: Can | *{{SSBM|Fox}}: Can up-throw himself and Falco until mid percents, where he can then combo into either up-smash or up-air, depending on DI and whether or not the opponent jumps out of the chain grab. | ||
==='' | ===''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''=== | ||
[[ | [[Image:ICsCG.gif|thumb|A sequence of chain grabs by the Ice Climbers.]] | ||
*{{SSBB|Donkey Kong}}: Can also carry release infinitely against Ness and Lucas, guaranteeing success by turning before releasing and turn grabbing so Ness/Lucas releases in his back (turned grab). He can also chain grab with his down throw at lower percentages. | |||
[[File:SSBB Falco Chaingrab Meteor.gif|thumb|Falco performs two down throws before using his [[down aerial]] meteor smash out of a short hop to gimp Ike, and then quickly edgehogging to ensure the CPU couldn't recover.]] | [[File:SSBB Falco Chaingrab Meteor.gif|thumb|Falco performs two down throws before using his [[down aerial]] meteor smash out of a short hop to gimp Ike, and then quickly edgehogging to ensure the CPU couldn't recover.]] | ||
*{{SSBB|Falco}}: Can chain grab with his down throw at lower percentages against everyone except very floaty characters such as {{SSBB|Jigglypuff}}, giving ~42% to most characters, more to the heavyweights. It easily combos into dash attack (which when canceled to up smash it allows a total of 65% damage). | |||
*{{SSBB|Falco}}: Can chain grab with his | *{{SSBB|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw with their backward, forward, and down throws on everyone except another pair of Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers have multiple infinites through alternating, release, and footstool grabs, usually executed as [[zero-to-death combo]] to the ledge, ending with a spike. A lone ice climber can only chain grab fast fallers with down throw at low percentages. Note that if both Ice Climbers are present, they are immune to chain grabs, due to one climber being able to interrupt the opponent while the other is grabbed. See [[Ice Climbers (SSBB)#Chaingrabbing and desynching|here]] for more information. | ||
*{{SSBB|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw with their | *{{SSBB|King Dedede}}: Can chain his down throw with dash grab against any character with a weight of 87 or heavier. This is an infinite that does not require a wall on {{SSBB|Mario}}, {{SSBB|Luigi}}, {{SSBB|Samus}}, and {{SSBB|Donkey Kong}}. | ||
*{{SSBB|King Dedede}}: Can chain his | *{{SSBB|Marth}}: Can chain grab {{SSBB|Fox}} and {{SSBB|Falco}} with his forward throw twice (this is a true setup into tipper DAir). At slightly higher percents, he can chain grab them with his forward throw as a setup into forward smash. His grab release also chains into itself on most characters, infinitely on Ness and Lucas. | ||
*{{SSBB|Marth}}: Can chain grab {{SSBB|Fox}} and | *{{SSBB|Pikachu}}: Can chain its forward throw using dash grab against most characters up to mid-percents. It can also chain its down throw against fast fallers using buffered standing grabs to quite high percents due to the move staling as it is used repeatedly. | ||
*{{SSBB|Pikachu}}: Can chain its | |||
=='' | ===''Super Smash Bros. 4''=== | ||
In ''Super Smash Bros. 4'', characters are immune to any grabs for 1.1 seconds after escaping from a grab or being thrown (while the [[tips]] say they immunity lasts for only one second, the duration is actually 70 frames). This mechanic makes chain grabs virtually impossible to perform. [[Special move]]s involving grabs (such as {{SSB4|Lucario}}'s [[Force Palm]] and {{SSB4|Kirby}}'s {{b|Inhale|Kirby}}) also affected by this mechanic. | |||
While grabs cannot directly combo into each other, it is possible to use attacks between grabs to keep the opponent in [[hitstun]]. {{SSB4|Luigi}}, {{SSB4|Ness}}, {{SSB4|Sheik}}, and {{SSB4|Roy}} are examples of characters with notable combos involving these pseudo-chain grabs. Additionally, {{SSB4|Donkey Kong}}'s cargo throws do not count by the game as grabs for this mechanic, allowing him to still chain grab opponents with his cargo down throw from low to mid percents when on a moving platform (such as [[Smashville]]'s) or against a wall. | While grabs cannot directly combo into each other, it is possible to use attacks between grabs to keep the opponent in [[hitstun]]. {{SSB4|Luigi}}, {{SSB4|Ness}}, {{SSB4|Sheik}}, and {{SSB4|Roy}} are examples of characters with notable combos involving these pseudo-chain grabs. Additionally, {{SSB4|Donkey Kong}}'s cargo throws do not count by the game as grabs for this mechanic, allowing him to still chain grab opponents with his cargo down throw from low to mid percents when on a moving platform (such as [[Smashville]]'s) or against a wall. | ||
''[[ | ==Video== | ||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=MgPDFsiQODM&feature=related DK's Release Grab on Kirby] | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHQCsNy8H2o DK Chain Grabbing using walls] | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=zZRKYpzgVSI Ganondorf Chain Grabbing Falco, 0% to death] | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=TSkCGa_J5wY Ice Climber's Chain Grabbing Falco] <br> | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=NIVPdRlRMDM King Dedede Chain Grabbing Marth on Shadow Moses Island]<br> | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=LQ-AKKso_Po Marth Infinite Chain Grabbing Ness]<br> | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=yRJBsg6QT0Q King K Rool solo chain grab]<br> | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=lWBwoYEMCig King K Rool and Ridley coop chain grab]<br> | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=aoACBoCEQoc Ice Climer's infinite full walk off]<br> | |||
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=gixx3KSbPV8 Ice Climber's 0 to Death Combo]<br> | |||
== | ==References== | ||
{{reflist}} | {{reflist}} | ||
http://smashboards.com/threads/ssbwu-3ds-luigi-chain-grab.379906/ | |||
http://smashboards.com/threads/shieks-chaingrab.371689/#post-17745129 | |||
[[Category:Techniques (SSB)]] | [[Category:Techniques (SSB)]] |