Talk:Meta Knight (SSBB)/Archive 1

Cleanup

Too many pros repeated, or just worded differently. So i put them together. (good character but was lengthy with no need to be). Each character has same chance of pratfalling. Phayz (talk) 15:13, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Pros and Cons gone?

Where did all of the Pros and Cons go? Someone apparantly deleted them... -ACDCGAMER (talk) 01:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

new project, go read the new project for info. - 68.158.116.134 01:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I put in the pros and cons of MK. Doc King —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.128.121 (talk • contribs) 20:28, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

The pros/cons sections were intentionally removed, don't re-add them. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 20:36, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why not? And how come u always delete my stuff, I'm just trying to help with this site so don't delete my stuff or I'll delete yours! Doc King —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.128.121 (talk • contribs) 21:14, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

It was decided that having an attributes section was better than a pros/cons section, so they were all changed. Also, trying to threaten people is a really stupid idea that only gets users blocked. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 21:18, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

All Around Hyrule Jump

Jigglypuff can go around Hyrule? Not only do I want video proof of that, but I don't think that qualifies as the All Around Hyrule Jump.

new layout

The pros and cons where very helpful now it just looks like Dojo with and removes the point of this being a wiki. the melee and SSB pages have pros and cons still

Don't understand on how he's first place on tier.

Seriously... I still don't see how that happened.

your kidding right? how could you not?! everyone uses him so its a given that he would be first JtM =^] (talk) 17:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's list his cons (which got removed >_> ) and deconstruct them:

• Light and easily KO'd (fourth lightest, along with Pikachu).

-Does this matter when Meta Knight prevents you from hitting him?

• Mach Tornado does not auto-grab the ledge, rather it bounces off.

-Meta Knight already has 6 jumps and a Glide. It won't be difficult to mash through edgeguarders with the Mach Tornado.

• Most of his attacks lack KO power.

-He comboes well enough to kill anyway. This video should explain quite well.

• Reliant on edge-guarding for early kills.

-See above.

• Crouching gives him almost no vertical height reduction.

-How often do you crouch to dodge attacks. Let alone considering Meta Knight's small size?

• Very poor air speed but Glide can help this.

-If it was poor, Meta Knight would be lower, though probably by a bit.

• Lacks projectiles.

-Tornado at the very least to make up for that.

• All specials put Meta Knight into helpless state in mid-air (except Shuttle Loop)

-Could be useful to exploit, except Meta Knight already can abuse A moves, and has control of a couple of the B moves. Oh, and Shuttle Loop still puts Meta Knight into helpless state, as if that helps.

There we go. Not very viable weaknesses for all the strengths Meta Knight has. MasterKnight (talk) 03:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Um... I seriously do not see how meta knight got first place. It is true that his attacks are really fast and that he does have a good recovery, but he really lacks a killing move. I have a hard time knocking a character out with his smashes unless I am near an edge or follow them to the end of the screen. Meta Knight is 11th on my list of Brawl characters. This means I can easily beat Meta Knight with Bowser, Snake, Wario, Samus, Diddy Kong, Fox, Captain Falcon, Mario, Donkey Kong, and especially Sonic. I'm sorry, but Meta Knight does not stand a chance against Sonic. His atacks may be pretty quick, but Sonic is actually pretty good at dodging and recovering from repeated attacks not to mention that he does at least have some good smashes. Sonic should be first place and I will tell you why...

He is fast His attacks are a bit faster than normal His smashes are pretty good at knockback and are repeatable His dash attack is very useful His recoveries are very good His throws are pretty good for his size His final smash is the best in the game (if you can control him)

First off, there are no smash balls in tourneys. Secondly, Meta Knight certainly doesnt lack a kill move (Dsmash anyone?). When you search a Sonic vs. MK vid on youtube, how many times do you see a video of Sonic winning? Rarely ever. Sonic=good smashes? hah! his Usmash sucks, his Fsmash has high starting and ending lag, and Dsmash isnt powerful. MK's smashes meet all the criteria of good smashes, quick powerful, low lag. I'm sorry, but MK has a much higher advantage over Sonic JtM =^] (talk) 02:13, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Um, just to tell you, not everybody posts their game on youtube. I wish I could, but I lack a camera and the internet. I myself personally never saw a fight between these two on youtube, but when I play, it is no constest. The only move that I tend to get nailed by is Meta Knight's tornado and regular attack (very quick and can rack up damage). I can easily avoid these moves by spindash, spincharge, homing attack, and foward dash attack (really useful as I like to knock him back and forth before he gets a chance to fight back). If I do get caught in his first normal fast attack (I'm sorry, I don't know smash talk yet) all that I have to do is use spring jump to get out of it and then spike him with Sonic's down a attack whick very useful at attacking him then in the air. And just to tell you, I always fight a level 9 Meta Knight, so do not accuse me of fighting an easy character. Also, I believe you give little credit to Sonic's smashes. I'll discuss it later. LOAP

Sonic does have one or two good smashes, I'll give him that, but his priority problems can get him in serious trouble. Plus, don't base your claims off of battles with a CPU; even level 9s. I bested two lvl 9s MKs with R.O.B., but this doesn't mean R.O.B. is better. Battle a knowledgeable MK user before you make these claims. (Shield+Man) (talk) 03:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm awful at the game but can beat a lv 9 MK with Captain Falcon, matches against CPU opponents are barely worth mentioning. I personally prefer Lucario, Marth and Ike to MK, but that's only cause I can't seem to use MK properly myself. If he wins all the tournaments, he's the best character. Impetus (talk) 11:15, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Seriously. WTF. Meta Knight is the BEST character in the game. I can beat ANYONE with Meta Knight. Except some of my friends...but level 9's are like level 1's if ur using MK. Seriously people. WTF. MetaKnight848 (talk) 05:51, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

You know when you claim that MK is the best and you can beat anyone, except some of your friends. This means that characters have nothing to do with it, skill does. Your friends just so happen to be better than you. Personally I've beat everyone I've played, and I play with Ike. So does that make Ike the best? Of course not!! It just means that I have some considerable amount of Skill with Ike. I do understand how MK is first place on the tier, the people who play as him happen to have the best skill. If those people chose to play as sonic then sonic would be best, or if they chose to play as any other character then that character would be the best. He's the best man. I beat him(along with just kirby) to beat Tabuu. without dying except when he got out his wings....Malon girl5 (talk) 23:29, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, OFFICIALLY, according to the most recent tier list alone, MK is considered the best character in the game. That doesn't necessarily mean that other characters can't beat him. As previously stated, all matches, no matter what characters are used, come down to skill. My cousin is an excellent MK player, and my Toon Link is STILL better than him. Tier lists basically come down to generalization anyways; Mach Tornado, Drill Rush, and the Dimensional Cape are great for recovery--if you know what the limits of those moves are. By no means are those the best recovery moves in the game, simply because all of them put you into the helpless state. Personally--and this is JUST my opinion, as everything else so far has been on this page--Kirby and R.O.B. have the best potential for recoveries, Kirby because of his jump ability, horizontal gain thanks to the Hammer, and vertical recovery granted by Final Cutter; R.O.B. for the mere fact that his recovery keeps him airborne for up to about five seconds, which is a lot, and because none of his moves make him helpless. Regardless of all this, I'm still religiously going to play as either Toon Link or G&W, depending on my mood. Making MK the best character based on technicality isn't going to change that. Ederek-Cole (talk) 21:12, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Don't post on topics that have talked about for a month. DP99 (CTE) 21:16, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

You know, I thought about that before I hit the save button. The most recent update before mine was about nine months after the post immediately before it. I assumed, based on the excessive space between the posts on this topic, that said topic was still open for discussion. Now, regardless of the vibe you're receiving from this post--or any of my other posts, for that matter--I apologize for my flawed observation of this topic and will resolve to abstain from posting anything further on the matter. Ederek-Cole (talk) 21:34, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

PRO"S AND CONS!

what's wrong with them!? they are great, like graphs- easy to read info! i don't care if they are immature!

Taunta

Can someone please post up Sir Meta Knight's taunts please! --Zookah (talk) 16:07, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Up taunt - Disappears into his cape, and it shrinks horizontally while spinning. Has invincible properties when he has shrunk into the cape.
Side taunt - Says "Fight me!" and slashes his sword twice before pointing it in the direction he is facing.
Down taunt - Opens his wings and and says "Come!" 92.233.156.165 17:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)ZoDanma

---

wtf when did fox,diddy and g&w when did get a even match with MK

MK has 60:40 vs Diddy

MK has 60:30 vs fox

MK has 60:40 vs G&WDarkspatan117 (talk) 01:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Source? Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 18:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Why

Why is he banned in Italy? 72.35.124.40 14:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much because he is too powerful, and is considered unfair there. BEN!

PPL he ain't banned in Italy, It says it in the article that only 1/3 of the votes were to kick Meta out of Tourneys so he stays as one of the tourney characters. Doc King (Don't have an account)

Meta Knight

I like Meta Knight!--71.80.8.126 23:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC) me 2, he's awsome! fight me!Malon girl5 (talk) 23:31, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Banning in Italy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you sure Meta Knight is banned in Italy? I heard that it was merely a mistranslation of a poll asking whether Meta Knight should be banned. 92.237.21.186 17:40, 30 October 2008 (UTC) no your right hes not banned they thought he was38.116.192.100 19:32, March 3, 2010 (UTC)im unregestered

Unused sound

Has anyone else heard of the sound of him saying, "Now my power is without rival," in the game's data? This is not in the sound test part, but was found. I want to confirm before I post it.

Source please. METEORITE (t)

http://Fortenium0.googlepages.com/MetaKnight-US-Nowmypower.wav Think this is fine to use here? Fortenium (talk) 01:23, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

How do we know this was said in the game? JtM =^] (talk) 04:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

This was in a zip dump of all sounds in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and all of Meta Knight's sounds were there, but this one was never used. Not only is it there, but you can't fake this unless you're the man who voiced Meta Knight. Plus this is the one game where Meta Knight has a voice actor, so this is not from a different game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fortenium (talk • contribs) 18:40, 26 November 2008

sounds like a victory pose. - Gargomon251 (talk) 23:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It probably was going to be. So, think I should put this in the Trivia part or is it best left off here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.67.168.133 (talk • contribs) 07:45, 23 December 2008

WTF people.

WTF. Meta Knight is awesome. For you bastards that hate him, you are all bitches. If you like him, then you're awesome. And apparently, some Meta Knight hater changed his page, so if that goddamn person is reading this, he is a MOTHERF***INGBITCH. and I HARDLY EVER SWEAR. so consider yourself unlucky if I swear at you.MetaKnight848 (talk) 05:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

This is a family-friendly wiki for people of all ages - kindly adjust your language appropriately. Calling another user, even if they are an IP, a "motherf***ingbitch" is a personal attack. I appreciate that you're fairly new to wikiing, having made fewer than ten edits so far, which is why I thought that a warning was more appropriate than a block. However, if you ignore this warning and personally attack another user again, you may be blocked from editing for a period of time. No matter how justified your anger is, you should never express it like that. PenguinofDeath 07:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

About the whole edit thing, I think the person you're talking about is me that edited the page. But I only changed the text of his down tilt, saying that he can psuedo crawl with it, but I don't hate Meta Knight, I actually play often as him. I'm sorry if you got offended by the edit. I do it for the good of SmashWiki. VideoGameBoy (talk) 11:55, 2 August 2009 (UTC+1)

It wasn't you. The edits in question (this one, this one, and this one) inserted extremely offensive material into the article. MetaKnight848 was saying that because Meta Knight is so clearly such a good character, it seems bizarre that people would want to scrawl obscenities all over the page (though he put it slightly less delicately). Don't worry, it wasn't an attack on you, you weren't even involved. PenguinofDeath 11:14, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry for the misunderstanding. It was because I recently slightly edited his page about his down tilt, thinking it was against me. Anyway, I find it very offensive that people even edit pages like that. It is such a scandal. But anyways, have a nice day. VideoGameBoy (talk) 13:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC+1)

@VideoGameBoy: Just as a brief aside, please sign your comments by placing ~~~~ at the end of your comment only, not at the start, otherwise it just looks messy. Thanks, PenguinofDeath 12:05, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the fact that some people said MK has no kill moves, I strongly disagree. His D smash is rather power, and so are his side smashes. Also, not sure how many people know, but MK's N air is actually powerful, and I easily keep people from recovering with it. Also, given MK's multiple jumps, in addition to the excellent shuttle loop, you can hit your opponent several times with the N air, and make it back safely yourself. 63.98.47.67 13:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

About 3 aerials in one short hop

Luigi can do it, I've tested it. The nair can still hit opponents. It's just that the nair can't be lag canceled (but it has almost no lag). Firewario (talk) 15:27, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

That's good to know - I've just updated the Lucario (SSBB) and Luigi (SSBB) articles to match the Meta Knight (SSBB) article. PenguinofDeath 15:42, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Who uses Luigi?He only made it into one game EVER and it bad. Luigi's mansion was a waste of monry for me....

Dude I friggin love Luigi

Yeah, a-don't diss a-Luigi Ederek-Cole (talk) 21:18, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Main page trivia?

I've seen the main page's Did you know section, and I see that MK's dash can actually help avoid banana peels. Is this in the article as well? Didn't want to put a repeat-fact there, though I just wanted to make sure it wasn't in it already? HavocReaper48 (talk) 22:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't in the article before, but it is now. PenguinofDeath 23:58, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Noobs

Only noobs use meta knight. It's freaking overpowered and requires no skill to use. It should be totally banned.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.156.207.76 (talk • contribs)

U madd?Smoreking^(T) _(c) 19:42, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

=0 That wouldn't be fair in tournys. What if people are ONLY good with Meta Knight? Or what if it was an only M.K. tournament??HavocReaper48 (talk) 21:56, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Everyone keeps saying this. But wouldn't that mean Fox from Melee and Pikachu from SSB should be banned too? And how is your statement constructive here? You aren't suggesting anything. 98.117.158.220 01:28, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Soo are you calling some of the best smashers there is NOOBS!? Spinodontosaurus (talk) 19:59, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

This is not true because Mew2King plays Meta Knight and he is considered one of the best players in the world. Although many of them are cheap spammers, some people who play him are very good and famous. Doc King (Don't have an account)
wow, there's a lot of critism... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malon Girl5 (talk • contribs) 23:37, May 14, 2010

Guys, calm down. Why is everybody here either hate Meta Knight, or love him? Sure, my best fighter is Meta Knight, which may qualify me as a "Noob who only uses high-tier characters", but my second best isn't Diddy Kong or Snake, it's Ike. I am good with Captain Falcon and stink with the Ice Climbers. Who you use should be with who you're best with, not just high-tiered characters. If you really want to even out the tiers, instead of banning Meta Knight, you could embrace Ganondorf and try to build a good metagame for him. I'm trying with Ike at this moment. USE_YOUR_MOST_SKILLED. Period. Meta Ike (talk) 16:52, 17 February 2012 (EST)

Techniques

I remember all the fighters had a list of techniques on their pages. What happened to them? I was going to put them back but I don't want to cause controversy. The techniques sections were helpful. Meta Knight has many good techniques such as his pseudo-crawl and double glide. Does anyone have an opinion on this? 98.117.158.220 02:02, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Removed as part of the post-merge cleanup project, replaced by Attributes. Miles (talk) 02:42, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Then you might want to check some of the Melee articles. If I remember correctly, Mewtwo still has a Techniques section (though miniscule). Ederek-Cole (talk) 21:20, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

I phail with MK!

This is very surprising but I fail with mk. I play better with the other characters like Sonic and Fox. Doc King (no account) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.147.155 (talk • contribs) 00:42, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

This is not the place for babbling. And sign your comments with ~~~~ (and that only), whether you have an account or not. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 00:45, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry Toomai, I was just saying this to see how I can improve with him and if tiers really do exist. Doc King

also btw thanks for helping me with this site, I really appriciate it. Doc King

No. This is not the place to talk about tiers. Tiers are proven to exist. Please bring this elsewhere. 98.111.95.78 18:25, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

It's a discussion page smart one. You're allowed to talk about anything MK related. Doc King —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.128.121 (talk • contribs) 20:28, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

No. This is supposed to be a discussion page about how to improve the article. This is not a forum, go to SmashBoards for that. And sign your posts with ~~~~. Toomai Glittershine eXemplary Logic 20:36, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Pit vs. Meta Knight

Hmm... One would think that Pit would be the answer to Meta Knight.

Pit and Meta Knight are fairly similar in terms of abilities. Pit's multiple reflections definately help out in a battle, especially since one of them blocks all physical attacks and spins the character around as well. Pit also has a very cheap and eeasily spammable arrow which can be charged or fired immediately, can hit the whole screen, is controllable and have interruption ability. Metal Knight has a better Up B, a better Smash, and multiple recoveries. However, they all leave him helpless, and he is a little lighter.

Each has one area they are better at than the other. If they are fairly similar, then I am wondering why Meta Knight is significantly higher on the list.

To clarify, Meta Knight is in his own Tier, Tier S, the higest one possible. Pit is in Tier C, along with my main character, Toon Link. I'm wondering why Pit is so much lower on the list than Meta Knight. 205.56.210.194 01:17, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

First of all, this doesn't belong here. Second, Meta is faster, so good luck KOing him. Third, Pit doesn't have Tornado. 98.111.95.78 01:31, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

That alone is enough to make Pit plummet halfway down the list? I'm not a Pit main, but seems rather harsh for a character that is reasonably smiliar to Meta Knight. Playing against Pit is fairly annoying, because you have to deal with infinite range arrows that can be curved, preventing proper reflection and able to hit enemies in odd places, even straight up. Multiple refelctions, including one that renders all physical attacks null and spins the target around, plus gliding and multiple jumps like Meta Knight. (Meta Knight and Pit both have a few advantages and disadvantages over each other. Seems to me like it would be a fairly even match up. (Once again, I am saying this as a player who does not main MK or Pit.) I just would like to know why there is such a disparity between the two, I am not arguing or debating. 205.56.210.194 01:39, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Meta Knight is not similar to Pit in any way other than the wings. Pit's reflectors don't work on MK because he has no projectiles. Finally, Tier positions are not based on individual matchups, so even if they were equal, MK would still be higher because he counters everyone else. 98.111.95.78 01:59, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

The reason why Pit isn't high tier is his lack of KO power. Pit only has two attacks that can consistently KO under 150%, his f-smash and his bair. When sweetspotted, his bair is one of the strongest aerials in the game but if it is sourspotted, it is exceedingly weak. On top of that, his bair is difficult to sweetspot, especially on short opponents like Meta Knight. His f-smash may be the fastest f-smash in the game but it is a two-hit smash and if the first hit lands while the second doesn't, it still gets weakened by stale-move negation. Meta Knight on the other hand, has his awesome d-smash (could be the best d-smash in the game), f-smash, nair, glide attack, the deadly Shuttle Loop semi-spike, and the WoP dair semi-spike. As you can see, Meta Knight is better at recovering, is much harder to edgeguard, is a much better edgeguarder, can rack up damage even more efficiently, and Meta Knight has a much easier time KOing opponents then Pit. That is why Meta Knight is S tier while Pit is C tier. Omega Tyrant (talk) 02:19, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. 205.56.210.194 22:19, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. Just be sure to check a character's arsenal more throughly before making such claims in the future.Omega Tyrant (talk) 06:08, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

I would say pit is a terrible matchup for meta knight,anything involving an air battle will always go in meta knights favor,meta knight dominates the skys in brawl,hes probably the only character who has any real air game at all in brawl second to none,to beat meta knight you have to play mind games and patiently(unless its meta knight vs meta knight)otherwise you dont stand a chance and most importantly keep your feet on the ground.

rule # 1 to beating meta knight:never,EVER,run after him,let him always come to you,if youre not gonna play defensively then dont even bother against meta knight,in a game of speed and combos meta knight is always # 1

rule # 2:if he refuses to come to you,aproach slowly,never dash at him,its harder to dodge/guard/react when youre at full dash and its best not to risk triping

rule # 3:smash attack at your own risk,play lightly,dont smash,rack up that damage with light hits till they send him flying,meta knight is a lightweight,get the damage up and light attacks will eventualy start sending him ever closer to his maker,the heavier his oponent the greater the knockback,the further meta knight gets launched the less chance he will have of making an aerial counter attack

rule # 4:like i said keep your feet on the ground,never engage meta knight in an air battle,if he sends you into the sky you run for the hills and hurry back to the ground(ganondorf,C.falcon,bowser,kirby and yoshis aerial down special help in this task,and are potentially fatal if meta knight is caught off guard,zs samus,sonic,sheik,toon link,and mr game and watch's regular down aerial also help,but could lead to your suiscide if theres an attack clash between you and meta knight,lucas' aerial attacks are also effective and his pk thunder help go after meta knight after he starts getting launched without having to put lucas at risk however should lucas get launched off stage and need to recover hes a sitting duck for meta knights air game)keep jumping to a minimum,dont jump if you dont have to it only gives meta knight an opening to combo you especially with heavier characters,so dont play against meta knight in a stage that requires a lot of jumping

thats all the advice i can offer,meta knight is top tier,but only if youre fighting a game of speed and combos,in a game like smash brothers,the fastest and best combos arent the only way to play,smash brothers is the ultimate mind game fighting game,ive noticed that a lot of the characters have "predictable recovery" as one of their bad aspects,all recoveries are predictable in smash brothers because when a character is trying to recover all they are trying to do is get back on stage,and theres only one route to take when trying to stay alive and reach the edge,all options are relatively obvious in that situation,but outside of that there is no predictable character,a character is only as predictable as you let them be in a game where you have about five different options when engaging and pursuing an oponent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.188.119 (talk • contribs) 04:17, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

First, sign your comments with 4~s. Secondly, use proper grammar and spelling so people can understand you. Now your post is rather pointless as you're replying to a comment that is almost two months old. I already told this IP how MK is better than Pit and your post was rather unnecessary. In the future, you shouldn't reply to posts on talk pages that are over a month old and/or are over issues that have already been resolved. Omega Tyrant 04:27, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

sorry mah boy grammar just isnt my thing,i cant be bothered,i think its easy to understand what im saying,sure its not perfect grammar but its good enough,unless you just cant understand english,a lack of periods,minor misspelling here and there shouldnt be that big of a deal,second,although pit isnt the best oponent for meta knight hes not terrible either,his arrows give him a slight edge over meta knight but yeah pit isnt exactly best pick for meta knight,third,my post was meant to help people interested in meta knights weakness,so i simply gave my imput into the proper ways to engage meta knight,meta knight is top tier because all the tournament players seem to rely on the same strategy gameplay wise,charge,attack,guard,chain grap,combo,repeat,but thats not all there is to smash brothers,if you dont get creative and unpredictable with your moves then of course meta knight is top tier based solely on that playing style,because those kinds of players like to run after their oponent and combo as quickly as possible,or guard and grap guard and grap,although skilled,its actually quite predictable,you know whats coming and know how to counter it

err i meant grab not grap hehehe sorry about that....76.109.188.119 04:59, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Don't refer to me as "mah boy". This isn't the place for matchup discussion and your grammar is most certainly not easy to understand, no one will bother to read such a large post with such poor grammar. Now this discussion about Pit vs. Meta Knight has already been resolved, therefore any more input into it is meaningless. Also, character's talk pages are not the place to discuss their tier placement, discuss such things in forums. Omega Tyrant 05:06, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

sheesh you sound so angry,well whatever i said what needed to be said,and whats wrong with posting the information i put here,this is all meta knight related stuff,and this is where people are gonna look for meta knight info no?seems perfectly fine and related to the topic to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.188.119 (talk • contribs) 05:16, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

No, what you posted on this talk page was unnecessary. Talk pages are supposed to be use to discuss matters pertaining to the article itself, not a character's matchup against another character or their tier position. Yes, there are many people who ignore this but that doesn't mean it is right. Again, if you plan to become an active contributor here, it is unnecessary to reply to month old comments and on already resolved subjects. I am not angry, but I do not like it when I see people making unnecessary posts on this wiki's talk pages. Omega Tyrant 05:28, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

...i see...well i have no intention of becoming an active contributor so no worries,it wont happen again,if it bothers you so much,just delete it all.

Falco matchup discrepency

There is false information (that has actually been here for quite some time). Falco's page claims he is the only character to have 50/50 match-up with Metaknight, while this page claims that Metaknight has a 55/45 advantage over him. One is incorrect and it should be fixed. Adroa (talk) 05:34, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

The matchups are decided by each individual character's board on SWF. As such, we have inconsistencies like this where two characters' matchups don't add up to 100:100. I know it is retarded and both character boards should decide two characters' matchup against each other together instead of deciding their own character's matchup (who would tend to give their characters better matchups anyway), which often results in two different matchup results for one matchup, such as one side saying their character has a 60:40 matchup and the other side saying their character has a 55:45 matchup. But this is the only system in place deciding matchups and that is what we have to make do with. Omega Tyrant 06:04, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Just thought I'd stop by here

Post a sentence and walk out it seems to be the trend around here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.105.46 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 11 July 2010 (UTC) --User was temp banned for this post

Um, when did we start banning people for saying stuff like this? :/ This is a short, harmless comment from an IP who did nothing else. Explain, pl0x. PenguinofDeath 09:53, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

The comment may be harmless, but it was completely pointless and such comments are unacceptable. There has been far too much misuse of the Wiki's talk pages and I find banning someone whose only edit was this useless comment to be necessary. Omega Tyrant 10:04, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

You can't agree that it was harmless then say it was unacceptable... Edits which are deliberately harmful to the wiki are unacceptable and merit a block. All other edits are acceptable. Given the nature of the edit, I would be extremely surprised if they had then edited the wiki again, making your actions completely pointless, so, according to your logic, I could block you. The IP may have been doing SmashWiki a disservice, but that's because they have a bad impression of the wiki, and by temp. banning them for voicing their opinion, you make their impression of the wiki even worse. It's stuff like this that gives SmashWiki a bad name among the Smash community. PenguinofDeath 10:58, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

You may consider me blocking the IP a pointless measure as it is likely that this IP would have not edited again. But the block was a preemptive measure to keep the IP from making further useless posts they may have been planning and should have this IP been planning to become an active editor, the block would let them know that such posts are not acceptable. As for blocking the IP, I did not block them for "voicing their opinion" as they did not post an opinion, I blocked them for making a completely useless post on our commonly misused talk pages. The IP was doing the Smash Wiki a disservice and saying that they shouldn't have been blocked because "they have a bad impression of the Wiki" is not a valid reason to not block them. To come to think of it, this post was not harmless as other users can see it as it being alright to post whatever they want on the Wiki's talk pages. By blocking this IP, it also gives a message to other users that this Wiki will not tolerate such pointless posts on our talk pages. I'm not going to be lenient just so this Wiki won't have a "bad name" among individuals who would never contribute constructively. Omega Tyrant 11:29, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Go easy on the banning OT, people deserve a yellow card before they get a red one. Mako Shark (talk) 12:27, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I entirely disagree. I take a strict stance on vandalism and I'm tired of seeing such pointless posts on our talk pages. An IP or user whose only edit is a completely pointless post such as the one above deserves to be banned. Omega Tyrant 12:51, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I would have given him 3 days. This post was quite clearly a troll. There is no basis for assuming good faith about this edit. The user clearly knows enough about the wiki to mock the people that come to it, so I'm sure s/he also knows that what they are doing is not acceptable. If s/he doesn't, but has been lurking long enough, than is this the kind of person that we want editing this wiki. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 14:55, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Strongly disagree. Their perception will be that they've been banned for voicing their opinion, which they will believe to be typical of the administration on this wiki, and they will tell their friends, and their friends will avoid SmashWiki, and that will spread. Trust me. I know a lot of people who play Smash, and they all avoid this wiki because they don't like the way it's run. Way to alienate the community we're supposed to be helping. But w/e. I'm inactive now. Not my problem. PenguinofDeath 08:08, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

May I ask how posting "Post a sentence and walk out it seems to be the trend around here" is a valid opinion instead of a pointless post that goes against proper procedure of a talk page? Omega Tyrant 08:11, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to point out that at no point did I defend their actions, nor did I comment on the validity of such an opinion. All I said was that I didn't think they had been treated fairly. It may be "a pointless post that goes against proper procedure of a talk page", but was it right that they be blocked for a day for saying that? The comment was in no way offensive, disruptive, part of a large-scale malicious attack, or in any other way deserving of a block. Rather, it was isolated and insignificant, and probably escaped the attention of everyone but you until you decided to act upon it. PenguinofDeath 10:54, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

The comment was in fact disruptive, as it was a clear violation of the proper use of a talk page. Any unnecessary and completely pointless comment that is clearly a misuse of a talk page is certainly deserving of a block. I saw the comment upon minutes of it being posted and immediately blocked the IP, preventing them from making a further mockery of this Wiki's policies and thus keeping it an isolated incident. Have I not blocked this IP, CHawk already said he would have and I highly doubt I'm the only one who's attention was caught by this post. You also said that I blocked the IP for "voicing their opinion", which I did not as they not post an opinion, they posted a comment that deliberately mocks the use of talk pages. Omega Tyrant 11:14, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

He wasn't "voicing his opinion," he was openly mocking this site. Considering that he knew enough about how most IPs act to make fun of it, I expect that he also knows the policies. Again, there is no way in which we can assume good faith here. And as to when we started handing out bans for this, we started when I realized that things were getting to lax around here. People could goof off and wave AGF of YAV and get out of shit. They can't. Edits like this are actually more damaging to the wiki than vandalism. If we don't respond to things like this, then it gives off the impression that no one is administrating and people can do whatever they want. They can't. We have clear guidlines and policies and this guy broke them. Hence, he gets a day vacation. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 14:20, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

A tad bit confused...

I understand the existence of tiers and find that the use of them, in my opinion, is entirely situational. That said, I have no qualm with Meta Knight being at the top of everyone, but according to his article, he has undocumented matchups against not only Pit--the one character whom everyone seems to be fond of fighting MK with--but with every single character in the G tier and half the characters in the F tier. I'm not by any means an expert on tiers, but to be considered the best, doesn't a character have to be proven to be better than everyone? Perhaps someone could shed some light on the subject. Ederek-Cole (talk) 23:18, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

As the metagame advances and new techniques and strategies appear, matchups become obsolete. The current matchup chart ignores any matchups that have not been updated/rediscussed/reconfirmed for a year by the people on SmashBoards. Also remember that even though Meta Knight may not have all his matchups documented, most other characters have their matchup with Meta Knight documented, and while they may differ slightly, they're still pretty similar. In addition, while tiers and matchups usually agree with each other, they have no technical relation: tiers are based on tournament placings, while matchups are based on individial attributes and matchup-specific techniques. Finally, even if a character has a few bad (or unknown) matchups, they can still be top tier since the rest of their matchups are positive. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 00:12, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

So if the matchups are, in fact, documented on other characters' articles, why aren't they listed here? Or is it something similar to the Falco/MK debate where no one can agree who's better? Ederek-Cole (talk) 01:32, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Each character's side has different views on the matchups. It's not always the other number.--MegaTron1XD 01:36, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, so how are matchup ratios decided? Or is there an article that details that? Ederek-Cole (talk) 01:42, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

The matchups reported here come from SmashBoards. Each character subforum has their own way of doing things, but the basic system seems to be discussing one matchup at a time until a consensus is established, which is then put into the main topic for that subforum. We have nothing to do with the matchups except for reporting them. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 02:42, July 19, 2010 (UTC)