SmashWiki:New Logo Proposal 2

As there has been significant feedback on the idea of a possible new logo, there is now an official proposal, initiated by Mako Shark and added to by Toomai.

Proposal A	Proposal B	Proposal C	Proposal D	Current Logo

Users may vote on which logo they prefer. This is not strictly a majority-wins vote; if it is too close to call there may be a revote between the winners.

Note that this does not affect the old SmashWikia. Feedback is still welcome here. Shark (talk) 01:18, 15 October 2010 (EDT) Toomai Glittershine 09:39, 15 October 2010 (EDT)

Votes for Proposal A

--Vincent Tran 02:43, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
Support I find this logo to be more representative of the Smash series than the old logo. A cartoonish logo is more fitting for a Wiki about cartoonish games. Omega Tyrant 04:09, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
Seeing how other people have mentioned their dislike for other proposed logos and their reasons for doing so, I'll mention mine. Logo B's Wikipedia likeness is a major turnoff for me as it lacks originality and can be considered more or less a rip off. I noticed how one user mentioned how this logo looks "Nintendo-y", I would like to remind that this is not a Nintendo Wiki and the logo should be representative of the Smash Bros. series, not of Nintendo. While we do base a lot of our policies and such on what Wikipedia has, do we really need to base our logo off theirs? As for Logo C, it lacks creativity and is just rather plain. This logo is also just based on the Smash Ball design from Brawl, therefore it doesn't represent the original Smash Bros. or Melee well. A logo should be representative of the entire Smash series, not just Brawl. These two logos also don't have Master Hand, an iconic character that originates from the Smash series and could be considered the mascot of the series. As for the current logo, I have no qualms with it, but I prefer A to it. But should A not gain enough support, I would prefer to see the logo stay, and I especially don't want to see logo B become our logo. We're not affiliated with Wikipedia and our logo should not be a ripoff of theirs. Omega Tyrant 02:27, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

I'm not a fan of D. It's just a rehash of the current logo, lacks creativity, and does not have the artistic flare of A. Seeing how others are doing it, my votes go from A > D > current > C >>> B. Omega Tyrant 21:25, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
OT just changed my vote back. Mr. Anon (talk) 22:26, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
This one actually looks kinda cool. Logo C just has a Smash Ball with SmashWiki slapped onto it. Doesn't look like much effort there. =P Ultrasonic2 (talk) 16:03, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
After a bit of logic destruction from OT, I have decided to pick the one I chose from the start, as this would be tied with the original if not for the fact that I chose this over the original originally. Seeing as how many have done it, A>Original>>>>B>C>>>D--Mega Tron1 XD 02:18, 23 October 2010 (EDT)
A>C>current>B>DGig (talk) 03:54, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Votes for Proposal B

I must say I find this wikipedia style logo quite enticing. If this is an IRV, then D would be my next choice. You've really outdone yourself this time, Mako. B>D>Old>A>C.-Ivy 73 18:10, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
I gotta agree and it does look really Nintendo-y -Scoobford (talk) 19:03, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
I feel that this wiki should be distanced from the Wikia one. Changing the logo would be good. I know that the logo will be replaced anyway but a new one will be better. I like this one more than the others and have never really liked the old one. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 12:41, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
Nothing to say that hasn't already been said. Unknown the Hedgehog 20:26, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
My favorite logo is this one, and if not this one change it to the first one. I really don't want to keep the old logo on this Wiki, because like Solar Dragon said, "I feel that this wiki should be distanced from the Wikia one." Doctor Pain 99 (C T E) 12:44, 18 October 2010 (EDT)
Yesh! YEEEEESH!!!! SonicRulz13 (talk) 13:17, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
This kinda goes back to what Smash really is: a collection of Nintendo games, brought together in epicness. Seevea (talk) 10:58, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

Votes for Proposal C

....Mesuxelf (talk) 15:35, 18 October 2010 (EDT)

Votes for Proposal D

D->C->Old->B->A in that order. D is very nice; should look familiar to senior editors but still unique and different from SmashWikia. +1 – Emmett 17:03, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
Looks like a lot of work was put into the distinctiveness of this one. Proposal B is ripped from Wikipedia's, but even so, it's very fitting with this skin (won't be if we ever decide to go custom). A looks cool large (perhaps we could use that image elsewhere?) but when it's minimized you can't view all of the magnificent detail. D > A > B in that order because I don't care about the others. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 18:21, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
Fantastic, very fitting for the smash series --Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 18:28, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
I like the detailing and how it's like an upgraded and better version of the older one. Like how this NIWA is a better version of Wikia. HavocReaper48 (talk) 23:15, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
D for the win! Ryder 25-10-10 16:20 pm

Votes for Keeping Old Logo

There's a difference between "cartoonish" and silly. The new logos, especially A, fall into the latter category. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 11:43, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
Mostly because it's very distinctively SmashWiki, ya know? Second choice (assuming this is IRV) would be Proposal B. Miles (talk) 18:32, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
Again, assuming IRV, I'd say Current > B > D > C > A. Miles (talk) 18:00, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
~~It's not that these logos aren't good, it's that none really beat the current logo --Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 06:30, 17 October 2010 (EDT)~~
~~My vote goes from C->Old->B->A in that order, but I'm posting it here because apparently nobody likes C. I do not like A at all :/~~ – Emmett 18:07, 17 October 2010 (EDT)
Tbh, if we were going to change, I'd support C. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 23:19, 17 October 2010 (EDT)
I liked the old wikia logo. SeanWheeler (talk) 21:01, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Neutral

..

Comments

Rofl Clarinet Hawk is always so disparaging Shark (talk) 12:04, 15 October 2010 (EDT)

@OT: What makes you think Smash is a series of cartoony games? Miles (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
- I agree with this sentiment; while Smash Bros. certainly has cartoony physics and has cartoony stuff in it, it also has enough realistic content to the point where blanket-calling it "cartoony" isn't accurate. The Subspace Emissary in particular juxaposes cartoony enemies with realistic textures and environments. Toomai Glittershine 22:21, 15 October 2010 (EDT)
  - The reason why the Smash series is often labled as cartoony is because when compared to most fighting games, such as Mortal Combat, it is indeed cartoony. For example, when one character hit's another, a weird flash happens, rather then a blood splatter or anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong, but also, doesn't the ESRB rating label it for "Cartoon Violence" and "Comic Mischief"? Mr. Anon (talk) 00:50, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
    - That is a bad comparison Anon. For 1, Mortal Kombat is declared the most bloddy fighting game in history. And why should we care too much about what ESRB thinks? I suppose a grenade is cartoony?--Mega Tron1 XD 00:52, 16 October 2010 (EDT)

@Miles: Well Miles, if you shoot a rocket launcher at point blank range, will you be completely unharmed? If you hit someone with an double handed, overhand sword swing at full strength, is it going to send the opponent flying up and away? When you hit someone, does comic like flashes appear? Since the beginning, the Smash series has been cartoony and while it has become less so which each installment, it still certainly is. Also, you have to consider that a large amount of the Smash characters are from cartoony games themselves (Mario, Kirby, etc.). But is there anything wrong with it? Absolutely not, but it is rather foolish to pretend the Smash series isn't. Omega Tyrant 06:14, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
- IMO there's a big difference between "not-cartoony" and "gory." Miles (talk) 12:28, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
  - That doesn't refute what I said, and I can give more examples. When you hit someone high into the sky, are they going to turn into a star or hit a screen? When you punch someone, will comic like flashes appear? Are you going to tell me that getting turned into "trophies" when defeated is realistic? The whole physics of Smash Bros. is cartoonish and not realistic at all. Now, I don't see why you have such a problem with me saying this as it doesn't degrade the series in any way and arguing with me on this does you or this logo proposal any good. The unrealistic, cartoonish things of Smash Bros. are part of what makes the series so great in my opinion. Omega Tyrant 12:40, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
    - The physics of the Smash Bros. universe are cartoony, but the average overall asthetic is not (even the Mario crew get realistic textures), and that clashes with the very-cartoony asthetic of Proposal A. It represents the series in shape but not in art style, and that's why I and others disagree with it. Toomai Glittershine 12:49, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
      - They got some realistic textures, but the Mario crew are still certainly cartoonish looking overall. Also, I never had a problem with you guys disagreeing with it, you're the ones who started this with me for no good reason I can see. Omega Tyrant 13:01, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
        Relax, OT; this is civilized debate we're going for here. My point was more that describing Smash as cartoony didn't seem to really work for me as Brawl went to great lengths to be less cartoony than every game it drew content from (heck, they even tried to make Toon Link less cel-shaded-looking.) Miles (talk) 14:21, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
        Less cartoonish =/= not cartoonish. As I said before, each installment was less cartoonish than the previous, but it is still a cartoonish series. I'll also remind you Brawl isn't the only game in the series and people do still play the original and Melee. Your statement about Brawl going to great lengths to be less cartoonish for every game it drew content from is false, I'm certain Snake is closer to cartoonish in Brawl than he is in Metal Gear. Another thing I would like to add is that the logo should be representative for the whole series, not just Brawl. All in all though, I don't see the point of you and Toomai arguing this with me, I'm not changing my opinion and this argument seems unnecessary to me. You shouldn't be telling me to relax when I'm not angry or anything, though I did get a little annoyed when Toomai made it sound like I made a complaint at you guys for not supporting logo A, which I did not said anything to you guys for not supporting it, even when CHawk insulted it. Omega Tyrant 14:46, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
        Sorry if it appeared that I was saying you made a complaint when you obviously didn't, I was just explaining why I (and other people) don't like Proposal A; as I am basically the main opponent to it (with my proposal(s) being the other possibilities) I feel it's my job to make attempts to sway the voters. Toomai Glittershine 15:01, 16 October 2010 (EDT)
        Understandable, though I can guarantee you that I'm not going to be swayed. Omega Tyrant 15:16, 16 October 2010 (EDT)

Is it possible for the maker of proposal A to make their logo not cartoon-ish? The cartoons only appeared as artwork for the original smash bros and have been discontinued, i would find this to be a fitting logo if only it was not a cartoon.--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 02:48, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

If you read what I said, it's not the artwork that's cartoonish, the Smash Bros. games are, including Brawl. Omega Tyrant 02:52, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Yes, I can do that, in fact, I can tone and colour it in the exact same way as the current logo, but I'm not sure that it would gain enough support to be worth the effort. Shark (talk) 03:16, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

I know the smash games are playful and colourful but i wouldn't classify it as cartoony, with the inclusion of some characters (Snake and Samus) that do not seem cartoony at all, could you explain what you mean by the smash bros games being cartoonish? And Shark, as much as i would like to see this picture more realistic, you have stated a really good point.--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 03:24, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Just read all of the above :p But to acknowledge your point, while some characters certainly aren't cartoonish in appearance, others are and more important, the overall style and physics of the Smash games are. Omega Tyrant 03:47, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

If you had re-styled Proposal A to look more like the current logo, I might have voted for it instad of adding my two proposals to the mix. Toomai Glittershine 10:17, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

If it was re-styled to look like the current logo, what would be the point of proposing a logo that would be a rehash of the current logo? Omega Tyrant 10:37, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

There are enough differences that it would not be just a rehash, but an upgrade. The pose, the font, and the "feel" are different from the current logo while retaining everything that it has. It'd be like the difference between Yoshi's SSBM and SSBB models - it's obviously the same guy, but updated to match the times, and it's not easy to confuse the two. My previous point was to say that the style is pretty much the only thing that makes me not like it; while it does mesh with some things in the series, it's disjoint with the majority of the visuals (and being an image, matching the visuals is kind of a big deal). Toomai Glittershine 23:12, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

I would disagree with it being more important for the logo to match the visuals of the game than the style/spirit of the game. I would also disagree with it not being in tune with the visuals of the series (especially if you consider that Brawl is not the only game in the series). Omega Tyrant 23:17, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Brawl isn't the only game in the series, but let's face it, it's currently the primary game in the series. Melee isn't exceptionally cartoony-visualized either, making the main source of cartoony visuals SSB64. Now, I will say that Proposal A does a really good job at mimicking the style of the SSB64 character artwork, but in my mind a logo should respect where you are more than where you were. Toomai Glittershine 23:34, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Again, I'll stand by my statement that the logo representing the style/spirit of all the games in the series is much more important than being in tune with the graphics and artwork of only the most recent game. After all, it's the gameplay that matters in a game, and we don't enjoy or play the games in the Smash series because of its graphics or because of how the characters were drawn in official artwork. I'll also stand by my statement that a logo should be representative of all the games in the Smash series, not just Brawl. It doesn't matter if Brawl is the most recent game, the others exist, we document information on them, and therefore should matter to the Wiki and be represented by the logo. I also heavily disagree with the statement of Brawl being the "primary game". There is no "primary game" in the series and none is more important than the other. Omega Tyrant 23:52, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Brawl is the "primary game" in that, when you talk about Smash Bros. in the present day, the average internet-goer will assume you're talking about Brawl unless the context is obviously Melee-only, and they won't really consider SSB64 unless it's specified. Yeah, a logo should apply to all the games, but it's only in theory that all three games are equally important to the body of users. Anyway, you've caused me to lose interest in this logo stuff, so I'll shut up now. Toomai Glittershine 10:15, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

To be honest, my original intention when making a new logo was actually to take the old one and make it look cooler, except I got lazy and it ended up going in a different direction and the result is cartoonish. If people are actually keen, I can make a version with the new graphic but with the same colours, textures and shading style as the original. On the other hand, it does take time and effort, so if people are just going to be harsh about it *cough* Clarinet Hawk *cough*, then I might not bother. Yes or no? Shark (talk) 12:12, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

I say no, I think the logo you have now is better than the old one and in my view, there isn't much point in spending your time in making and proposing a new logo that is almost a rehash of the original logo. Omega Tyrant 12:24, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Screw it, I'll do it anyway. Shark (talk) 14:31, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Done, there is now a Proposal D. Shark (talk) 15:10, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

second vote: D, but it's not far enough from the original for meScoobford (talk) 20:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

It seems the community is pretty split up. I say we eliminate the two least popular choices (C and Keeping the old logo). Mr. Anon (talk) 22:28, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

I think doing so at this point would be pre-emptive. Miles (talk) 23:24, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Woah, Mako Shark re-did Proposal A. I think it's a bit too "POST-APOCOLYPTIC NIGHTMARE DIE DIE DIE" though, if you know what I mean (which you probably don't. I understand). SonicRulz13 (talk) 10:30, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

Now, one user that I forget the name of said that my personal favorite, Proposal B, was "Nintendo-y". I would like to point out that on the left-hand side of the globe, you can clearly see the symbols for Subspace, a Smash Bros. original, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Metal Gear Solid. Futhermore, near the top, you can see the Smash Bros. logo, representative of the entire series. Furtherurthermore (or something), the entire globe has a faint Smash Bros. logo drawn on it. The only reason there are so many Nintendo symbols on it is because there are so many Nintendo franchises in the series, this being a Nintendo series. I like how it is based off of the classic Wikipedia logo, because... well... I like parodies. And that's where I stand on this whole argument. Good day, sirs! Hmph! SonicRulz13 (talk) 10:46, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

It's more of a rip than a parody, and we're not a parody Wiki like Uncyclopedia, so we shouldn't be having a "parody" logo. Omega Tyrant 12:02, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just like parodies. But the main I wrote that comment up there is because I was explaining how Proposal B is fitting for the entire Smash series and not just Nintendo. So if anybody wants to disagree with me about this, don't keep bringing up the fact that it's a parody. I just like parodies. SonicRulz13 (talk) 10:26, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

The symbol for Subspace belongs to Nintendo because, surprise, the Smash Bros. series belongs to Nintendo.--Mega Tron1 XD 17:49, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, I know. You don't have to be all rude about it. This is just a contest. SonicRulz13 (talk) 10:36, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

And, OT, I would like you to know that your precious Proposal A is my second favorite.(Sorry if I sound rude: I'm not trying to be.) Peace, people! JeeZ!!! 8^D SonicRulz13 (talk) 10:39, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

Uhm, when did I say it was precious to me? And yes, you did sounded rude and the necessity of aiming it at me is questionable :/ Omega Tyrant 10:52, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

You never said it was precious to you, you just defend it so... feircely (for want of a better word), I was just trying to be funny. I aimed it at you because I wanted you to know that Proposal A is my 2nd favorite (which it is.). Sorry again for sounding a bit rude, I didn't want to be. SonicRulz13 (talk) 11:11, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

It was more of me defending my view of Smash Bros. being a cartoonish series, not logo A itself. Omega Tyrant 11:20, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

was such a long conversation really necessary,isnt this just a popularity vote,you just vote for what you like the most,its pretty pointless trying to sway others in something thats completely based on opinion and personal preference,you like what you like,cant change that,whichever gets the most votes wins,or am i wrong?Gig (talk) 04:04, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

This isn't strictly a majority wins vote, so the logo with the most supports/votes doesn't necessarily win and become our new logo. Omega Tyrant 05:02, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

....then whats the point of voting....Gig (talk) 05:06, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

To show what logo the community supports. Notice the use of the words "not strictly", which means while the logo with the most votes/support is still the most likely to succeed, the Wiki isn't necessarily going to change its logo to the lead vote getter. This is understandable if the logo with the most votes only has one or two more votes/supports than the second place logo (as it currently is), in which case something may be worked out. Omega Tyrant 05:20, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

yeah but thats not really voting...the purpose of voting is to give people options and whichever option is given the most support(# of votes)is the undisputable winner,no arguments,if what you say is true then this really isnt a topic for voting at all,its a debate,people give their reasons why they support one thing over another then a small group ultimately decides the outcome,its pretentous to call it a vote,since voting alone wouldnt have a purpose,youd have to give your reasons for being for or against what youre voting for,and if thats the case then id have to change my vote around,since i basically just voted based on which logo i liked the most not the one i think would be the best representative of the wikiGig (talk) 05:52, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

As you'll learn on Wikis, hardly anything are actual strict vote counts. However, unlike RfAs and such which definitely aren't, this logo proposal can be considered more or less a vote count. You're also not entirely correct about when voting occurs, the one with the most votes always automatically wins. There is such a thing called too close to call, where recounts and other things occur if the lead vote getter only lead by one or so votes. There are also votes where for something to succeed, it has to gain a certain majority, such as when bills are passed. In such votes, even if something did get more supportive votes than not, if it did not reach the required majority (such as 67%), it does not succeed. As for the debating, you or anyone else does not have to take part in it. You can simply leave your vote and never come back to the logo proposal, without posting one word in any debate that occurs. However, you are in your full right to defend the logo you like when challenged by someone else (as was the case with me). Omega Tyrant 06:17, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

If no one has a strong objection, I'm going to make an improved voting system (such as giving each proposal a rating) to hopefully produce a more clear winner; as right now it's still too close to call and things are unlikely to change otherwise. Toomai Glittershine 14:41, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Should we perhaps wait a little after our official NIWA induction? When that occurs, we should get new users, who will in turn make a vote on the logo proposal. Then if it's still too close to call, we go through with an idea similar to yours. Omega Tyrant 14:47, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

I was hoping to have the new voting system ready for use before said influx, so only the currently established users would have to go through voting twice. Toomai Glittershine 18:37, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

I was thinking that with the influx of users, we could get a clear front runner, making the need for a second vote unnecessary. Omega Tyrant 18:41, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

The new users might not have a very wise input for voting for a new logo, they probably don't know enough about the smash series and will do a donkey vote.

Uhm, that's not a legit reason to not allow new users to vote, and every user is entitle their opinion on this. Also remember to sign your comments. Omega Tyrant 19:37, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Yes every user is entitled to their vote, but should we really wait until we do have new users to select a new logo?--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 19:40, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

In my opinion, yes. They're soon going to be part of the Smash Wiki community and with that in mind, they should have a say over the logo choice in the Wiki they're going to become a part of, and I also see no reason to rush this proposal. Omega Tyrant 19:43, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

How long until Smash Wiki is officially part of the NIWA?--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 19:59, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Our official induction comes this Friday. Omega Tyrant 20:04, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

Yeah... Might as well wait, I thought it was ages away.--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 20:08, 25 October 2010 (EDT)

No objections to Toomai's plan. Shark (talk) 03:48, 26 October 2010 (EDT)