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Revision as of 20:25, July 25, 2024 by StrawberryChan (talk | contribs) (→‎Regarding "Ice Ball")

Boss move name sources

I see that you've been adding boss move names, purportedly from the Japanese strategy guide. Would you be able to provide a link or scan of these pages as references? If so, I imagine they'd be accepted and quickly re-added. Unfortified Castle   15:02, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

The names are all compiled off of Japanese wiki sites, all of which heavily cite the guide as reference for the move names. Here's a page where I sourced Galeem's moves from, I know it's a secondhand source but the info appears consistent here and along several other sites and I've done due diligence to ensure that the information isn't just something a random internet user made up.
Unfortunately, if you NEED a scan of those pages, I'm not going to be able to provide those, as the guides are out of my budget range to justify buying something just to reference 3 pages or so. I can't find any scans of the physical pages online, bar for one from Brawl's guide with Duon I managed to find on a random eBay listing, I hope that's enough to show that the guides do indeed list the move names.
With Tabuu's moves, it's not going to be very easy to find a scan for the page unless you or someone else knows someone who owns the Japanese guide, as it's long since gone out of print and is a tad hard to find copies of. However, I'm pretty much positive the move names are correct since I cross-referenced them like 5 times with other websites, all of which had them listed as being names taken from the guide. BubbleRevolution (talk) 16:10, June 17, 2021 (EDT)
If the names on smashwiki.info come from a guidebook, they likely come from the guide published by KADOKAWA as it is the only book I'm aware of that the official Japanese Smash Twitter account has posted about and is the only one listed on smashwiki's guidebook article. I've thought of purchasing it myself for fun (I think there are some western listings) but haven't yet. The pages for Brawl seem to be from this book based on the margins and the flames on every page. I've tried looking for scans of both but the site I used doesn't have a large Japanese collection. I don't know if there are Japan-centric sites that have scans and I don't know any Japanese to try to find them. --CanvasK (talk) 21:20, June 17, 2021 (EDT)
That's what I figured as well. Unfortunately the only option to get more definitive names, at least for Brawl's, is to find someone who owns the guide and ask them, but what little I've managed to gather is a start. BubbleRevolution (talk) 21:29, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

SSB vs. SSBU move names

I noticed your recent edit to Ness (SSBU), adding the moveset names from the Japanese SSBU guidebook you've been citing. Out of curiosity, I cross-referenced these names with those on the Japanese SSB website for Ness (SSB). Indeed, there are many that match up identically (e.g. the Neutral Attacks and Smash Attacks); others are similar, but with the addition of "PK" to their names (e.g. the Dash Attack); but there are others that are completely different (e.g. the Forward Tilt, Up Aerial, and Down Aerial).

If the moves themselves are different between SSB and SSBU, then that would explain the different names... but if the moves are otherwise identical, which name should take precedence? Should we use the SSB website for the SSB pages and SSBU guidebook for the SSBU pages? Or would the website take priority over the guidebook due to being a more "primary" source? Just some questions to consider. --PeabodySam (talk) 18:30, July 23, 2021 (EDT)

I think it's just a difference in naming between games for some of the moves, like how Pit's Palutena Arrow was renamed to "Palutena Bow" from 4 onwards. For name differences, we should just refer to them by different names depending on the game they're in, as the guidebook's move names match up completely with the in-game tips that refer to certain attacks by name. Some of Ness' moves have changed from game to game so that should mostly explain the name differences, otherwise, just chalk it up to a change in naming from Smash 64 to Smash Ultimate in the 20 or so years that have passed. BubbleRevolution (talk) 13:32, July 24, 2021 (EDT)

Poké Ball Pokémon moves

Unlike past games, we don't have a source (such as the official website or trophies) declaring what moves (or abilities) the Poké Ball Pokémon are using for Ultimate. While this does not affect Poké Ball assists returning from previous games, this does affect new ones—namely Alolan Raichu, Vulpix, Alolan Vulpix, Bewear, Pyukumuku, Togedemaru, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko, and Marshadow. (Abra, Ditto, Solgaleo, and Lunala's moves are obvious based on context, and Alolan Exeggutor does not use any moves.) As per our rules, we've left the moves they're using ambiguous, but we've still had users adding possible moves without a source and getting their edits reverted.

Does the KADOKAWA guide have blurbs or the like mentioning what moves the Poké Ball Pokémon are using? If so, we may be able to resolve this issue for good. ShootingStar7X (talk) 15:40, August 30, 2021 (EDT)

I believe BubbleRevolution has said that they don't own the book themselves, but they get the names from a JP smash wiki (smashwiki.info). I checked Bewear and Marshadow and the site claims ぶんまわす (Brutal Swing) and シャドースチール (Spectral Thief) respectively. My issue is they don't explicitly state that those names are from the guidebook, so they be in the same boat as us. --CanvasK (talk) 16:05, August 30, 2021 (EDT)
I learned that they don't own the book before you even replied. Oops. Nontheless, here are the rest of the "moves" (a good number of them are weaponized abilities) from smashwiki.info:
As with boss move names, we'd need to check other Japanese websites and see if they are consistent across them in lieu of the KADOKAWA guide. ShootingStar7X (talk) 16:40, August 30, 2021 (EDT)
The Japanese wiki does mention its from the Strategy Guide at least for the characters. Also the DLC characters don't have any official move names because the guide was likely made before they released   Thegameandwatch   The Nerd 18:27, August 30, 2021 (EDT)

move name translations

first, thanks so much for checking over the translations i did as there were many i was unsure of. for sheik's up tilt, it uses the kanji 真弓 which can mean spindle tree, but i think a translation involving bow might be more accurate? マユミ seems to be a more common spelling of this specific spindle tree, https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/マユミ#CITEREF鈴木庸夫・高橋冬・安延尚文2014. The given name mayumi can also use these kanji, to which wikipedia lists to truth and bow as possible translations (in addition to spindle tree). given the context of the move itself, being shaped like a bow, and the fact that the english name of the move in the melee and brawl strategy guide was "bow form" (in japanese, the name was still 真弓) i think something like "truth bow" or "just bow" might work better? i'm not that great at japanese which is why i'm asking, again thanks a lot for your help Luigi86101 (talk) 20:17, June 12, 2022 (EDT)

Apologies about the insanely late reply, I rarely check this account. This is a bit of a hard one, my guess is it's PROBABLY just supposed to be the name of the tree? That sort of name is used poetically at times in move names occasionally, though this is sheer speculation on my end and I can't say for sure. Being written in Kanji makes sense even if the spelling is more commonly done in Katakana because Kanji gives a more poetic and old-timey air to the name, which fits for Sheik's general aesthetic. BubbleRevolution (talk) 13:12, May 2, 2023 (EDT)

Regarding "Ice Ball"

Sorry this is so late, I don't check SmashWiki as often these days! I've discussed Ice Ball on the talk page for Marx. There are more instances of ボウル being translated as "Ball" in the Kirby series (the Japanese name of Kirby's Dream Course is "Kirby Ball" according to the official guidebook; the move タランザボウル "Taranza Ball" / スーパータランザボウル "Super Taranza Ball" in Kirby Star Allies; and the term ずんぐりボウル "Puffball" in Kirby's Dream Buffet). Snow Bowl is the only outlier here, and that itself is a pun on "Snowball". Based on this, it seems more likely that "Ice Bowl" is "Ice Ball" despite the nonstandard spelling. ~ StrawberryChan (talk) 21:13, July 25, 2024 (EDT)

...Ah, I've see you've already replied to it, my bad. ^_^;; I doubt the name "Kirby Ball" is a misromanization because it is used consistently throughout the guidebook, where it would seem likely to appear as "Bowl" in some places if it wasn't intended. The move Taranza Ball is definitely not meant to be Taranza Bowl because he controls a large ball of energy while using it. ずんぐりボウル literally translates to stubby ball/bowl and is being used to refer to Kirby, so it would make much more sense in this context to be "ball" than "bowl" (hence why it was translated as "Puffball"). I think these are all pretty compelling evidence that it is a quirk of the Kirby series to use ボウル to mean "ball" interchangeably with ボール. ~ StrawberryChan (talk) 21:25, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
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