User talk:Miles of SmashWiki

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Boss Tikis from DKCR

What I'm saying is, that the names of those guys were never given in any media pertaining to DKCR back then for some reason, at all. The legitimacy of DK Wiki is questionable to boot. ShadowMan2 (talk) 20:50, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Discord

You said in a recent edit summary that you have been "idling in the Discord for hours". Well then, who are you on there? If you are in the Discord, nobody, including the other admins, knows about it. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the Internets go! :3 18:31, 25 December 2017 (EST)

There, I've announced myself. Miles (talk) 18:44, 25 December 2017 (EST)

"There is no email address recorded for user"?

Hello. I'm the user Wrilliam, back after a 3-year absence. However, I forgot my password, and when I tried to reset it, the following message appears to me:

There is no email address recorded for user "Wrilliam".

AFAIK, the e-mail address is mandatory to create an account, so what's that supposed to mean? Was my account deactivated, deleted or the like? 189.45.84.65 15:00, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

I don't believe there's a requirement for an email address to make an account. It's possible you set one up without ever associating an email - in which case, there's not much of a way to restore your account access, so far as I'm aware. Miles (talk) 15:37, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

I see... well, I guess I'll just have to create a new account then, associating an email address this time (I'm still shocked about how I didn't do it). The old one should be deleted, right? 189.45.84.65 23:00, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

You can't exactly delete accounts; you can merge them, but they're not deleted, per se. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 23:01, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

If you can prove that your old account belongs to you, admins may be able to merge the accounts. Accounts cannot however be deleted in any way shape or form. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 23:02, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

Permission to make my user page

i want Permission please —Preceding unsigned comment added by Starfan13 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 8 September 2018

You'll need to be autoconfirmed for that. Miles (talk) 00:50, 9 September 2018 (EDT)

Language Tables

I left you a message on your language tables page about a month ago and wanted to know if you're still interested in this idea and how you would want to go about it. Frankly, with the wiki being at a red status until November and beyond, I can understand if the demand for it is low but I personally am interested in undertaking it. Nergal06 (talk) 23:40, 13 September 2018 (EDT)

Ah, I missed that. I do think it would be worth discussing again but it's a sweeping enough proposal with a lot of unresolved parts that it would need a) more work before it's ready to implement and b) probably a community consensus vote on Forum:General proposals or elsewhere. Miles (talk) 00:39, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

Trivia

What exactly do you mean by "extremely common knowledge"? I did not know the meaning behind the name Alucard until the first fourth of this year (2018). So before adding it to the trivia, I asked a few people if they knew what Alucard was backwards, just in case it was a "no, just me?" thing. Almost all of them had heard the name Alucard before, but not the fact that it was Dracula spelled backwards. I also noticed that Alucard's page on the Castlevania wiki and on Rachel Alucard's page on the Blaze Blue wiki both mention it in their trivia pages. Not only that, the Smash blog even refers to it by asking what you get when spelled backwards. Plus, not everyone is able to read backwards very well (Ekans, Arbok), usually it would't often come to mind. Also, one of the reasons why I added it in the first place is in the understanding that not everyone who plays Smash is necessarily familiar with Castlevania. Some people, despite having a love of the Zelda or Smash series, do not know that Sheik (or Tetra) are actually Zelda (even if they somehow skipped Melee and Brawl). I actually had a friend who did not know that Zelda and Sheik were the same person, despite having played Brawl and Subspace, until I pointed it out. Regardless of what was previously mentioned, if you still feel it is too obvious to be added, then I guess I leave it alone then. (sorry to have bother you) Wolff (talk) 15:44, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

The argument is "should Alucard be noted in trivia to be Dracula backwards"? In which case, absolutely, this is not extremely common knowledge. Serpent  King 15:55, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

A quick search on the internet leads me to this, a page on the character as he appears in the 1943 film Son of Dracula. The page notes how "Alucard" is "Dracula" backwards, which, if you ask me, would mean it either:

A. is extremely common knowledge because it was mentioned in the film,

B. is extremely common knowledge because Wikipedia mentioned it, or

C. is not common knowledge, and is listed for the same reasons people have attempted to list it here.

Aidan, the Spooky Rurouni 16:02, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

I had mentioned in my Summery that ""Alucard" being "Dracula" spelled backwards is not common knowledge (even among fans of Castlevania or BlazeBlue)", in hindsight, I should have said "not that common". "Miles of SmashWiki" said in his undo Summery, "this is extremely common knowledge and has been a known wordplay for 70+ years". I'd argue that just because that it has been used numerous times, does not mean it is as common knowledge one may think. Certain wordplay or ideas in literature may be common, but unless you've done research on said ideas you would not necessarily be able to identify it. Unless at some point in Castlevania or BlazeBlue they were to directly mention it, you wouldn't necessarily think about it (was it mentioned within that film?). This would also require for the player to have played the game(s) in which it was mentioned (or shown, like with Zelda/Sheik/Tetra). Wolff (talk) 16:24, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Chiming in to say I'd not heard it before as well. – Emmett 16:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Trivia is normally supposed to have something to do with Smash, right? This particular bit of trivia, while somewhat interesting, has nothing to do with Smash at all. If we're going to include it, it should probably be in the main part of the article. That's just my opinion. John HUAH! 16:26, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

It has to do with Smash in that it's about someone in Smash. Lots of trivia about characters in Smash can relate to their home game or references in their names and stuff. – Emmett 16:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Well both Castlevania's Dracula and Alucard are in Ultimate, so referring to it would be related to inside of the Smash universe. Plus the Smash blog post refers to it, but does not mention it directly. Wolff (talk) 16:30, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

I honestly had never heard anyone not know that before. I always got the impression that it was obvious upon seeing the name "Alucard" at all, but then again I'm somebody who has always liked anagrams and wordplay. Apparently this was less obvious to people than I thought. You can go ahead and re-add it if you'd like. Miles (talk) 18:32, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Upcoming apperences

I updated your old page to make it relevant to SSBU. Did I do any good? (Add signature here)

Discussion

I would like to discuss a few things with you about the wiki, if you'd be willing to. Wolff (talk) 01:27, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

Can Clone's protection please be lifted?

I wanted to add Ken & a trivia fact, but I can't because of the protection. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:37, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

I've lowered it to autoconfirmed. Miles (talk) 16:38, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Ah, thanks a ton. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:40, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Light Arrow Origin

Hello, I'd just like to respond to this edit of yours.

I don't believe the mention of Tetra wielding the arrows in The Wind Waker is correct, because it is Zelda who wields the Light Arrows and not Tetra. Although they are the same person, Tetra is the disguise and not the true identity, and at the point in which the arrows are used, the disguise is not being used. Thus, it is Zelda who wields the arrows, and she is not acting as Tetra at that point.

I have brought this to discussion rather than simply removing the mention again, because that would violate policy and wouldn't meaningfully solve the dispute. Dr. HyperCake (talk) 03:43, 12 November 2018 (EST)

It depends on how you interpret the semantic difference between the character as Tetra versus the character as Zelda. My reading of it from how Wind Waker handled it was that her actual name is Tetra and that "Zelda", at that point, essentially an honorary title applied to her by the King Daphnes more than anything. I figured that, since we had a page on Tetra as a character, that referring to Wind Waker's Zelda as Tetra, her given name, was still appropriate and that it would be worth linking to. Miles (talk) 11:17, 12 November 2018 (EST)

Well, let's compare it to the Sheik scenario. Sheik is much more objectively a case of a disguise persona compared to Tetra, and so it would be reasonable to state something like "Zelda (as Sheik) did X". One could do a similar thing for Tetra: "Tetra (as Zelda) did X"; but because of the nature of Tetra, it becomes much more based on subjective interpretation as to which is the true identity, which is of course the source of this dispute. Tetra's relevance to the context of Zelda's use of Light Arrows in The Wind Waker only appears with the interpretation of Tetra as the true identity, whereas just stating "Zelda used the Light Arrows" is an accurate statement regardless of interpretation, much like stating that Sheik taught Link songs in Ocarina of Time.

I also argue that Zelda is as much the "true" identity in this case as Tetra, and so it is reasonable to omit any mention of Tetra. My interpretation is that they are each separate enough identity-wise that they can be viewed as separate characters of the same person; when one says "Tetra", it refers to the pirate, and when one says "Zelda" (or "Toon Zelda"), it refers to the princess. I suppose this is also comparable to Sheik in that sense.

I feel that if a reader wants to know more about Zelda in The Wind Waker (and thus her connection to Tetra), they may pursue the information easily elsewhere, but in the context, the mention is not relevant and is too subjective.

(Sorry for the wall of text. I've never been much good at making a point concisely.) Dr. HyperCake (talk) 16:02, 12 November 2018 (EST)

I agree that it ought to be Zelda. Zelda was the one actually using the light arrows in the final fight, not Tetra, which to me is the relevant distinction. – Emmett 16:14, 12 November 2018 (EST)

Vandalism

I’m just an IP, but User:Pagegriefer is vandalizing, as per his name. I undid his edits to you and BV’s userpages, but can’t report him on the admin notice board because it’s protected. So, I figured I’d just tell an admin. 72.133.91.93 13:59, 12 November 2018 (EST)Blueflame105

My use of images

Thanks for telling me about the fact that I'm using way too many images. I felt that way a bit earlier today too (which Is why some of my edits were specifically made to remove some images on the Waluigi page) and I apologize for getting to carried away. I'll try my best to only post images/gifs if they are necessary/help explain without posting too many, and to not fill the gallery with billions of Images. Pappy Parappy (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2018 (EST)

No problem. And again, I don't want to be excessively critical. There is something of a learning curve to figuring out when an image actually illustrates something new and important for the page versus when it's excessive, and it's also not a set-in-stone right or wrong kind of thing. So don't stress too much, either. Miles (talk) 01:27, 13 November 2018 (EST)

Yeah, I guess so. I'll just keep helping with what I can and let people inform me on what I am doing right/wrong, So I don't repeat mistakes. Pappy Parappy (talk) 01:36, 13 November 2018 (EST)

Spirit Pages

In regards to the notice for the consideration of deletion you added on Lapras' page, I suggest that we should hold off on making/deleting pages for characters that appear exclusively as "Spirits" (possibly until the game's release) until we find out if they have a purpose outside of a Spirit. Cappy has a page, but he also appears aesthetically in Mario's moveset. In Lapras' case, it is shown that it can appear in the overworld in "World of Light" showing it has second purpose. However it is currently unknown if it is among a small few Spirits capable of doing so. If quite a large amount of Spirits have shared effects in the overworld, then it should probably be stated in their "list of Sprits" pages instead of giving them individual pages. (Although, some characters have pages despite only appear as Trophies. Which were replaced by Spirits) Thoughts? Wolff (talk) 12:39, 15 November 2018 (EST)

The idea was to use the Lapras discussion to come to these kinds of conclusions. Miles (talk) 22:59, 15 November 2018 (EST)

I was asking about pages for Spirits in general and how we should go about making them before release. Because of that, I felt it did not fit the disscusion on Lapras' page. (And I saw that you were the one that added the consideration) Perhaps I'll add it to the Spirits (characters) discussion before the game's release if I remember. Wolff (talk) 23:28, 15 November 2018 (EST)

smash ultimate crowd cheers

when i was doing captain falcons classic mode i was at the mii brawlers then i did something good then the crowd started cheering falcon go! can we start the ssbu crowd cheers page

Hey

I see you’re active again, so can you update those sandboxes again? 174.55.24.64 23:10, 21 January 2019 (EST)

I'll get to it. They're on an "as I feel like dealing with them" basis. Miles (talk) 23:46, 21 January 2019 (EST)

Hey Miles

The Nabbit page needs work. 174.55.24.64 19:14, 27 January 2019 (EST)

Hey

Wanna make trophy-like descriptions for Piranha Plant in general, the SSBU Piranha Plant, and the Petey Piranha Final Smash? 174.55.24.64 02:51, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Look, IP, while I appreciate your enthusiasm to work with me, the way you're using my talk page is going overboard. If you want these things, put in the effort to make them yourself rather than repeatedly poking me to. I don't know whether you are aware that it's coming across as pushy, but... it is. Miles (talk) 12:06, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Miles

This is the last thing I’ll say to you but do you know any Piranha Plants that Viridi didn’t mention in the Palutena’s Guidence? 174.55.24.64 18:58, 30 January 2019 (EST)

About my recent edit on the template

I actually had only intended to change it to have 2 images so that I could get the image Corrin 2 image general.png to show up, then show it to he thread to judge. I apologize if you thought I was trying to permanently change that. Lou Cena (talk) 00:59, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Changing widely used templates like that, even for a short time, has cascading effects thought the wiki; if you want to test something, it’s better to try it in your user space so it doesn’t affect anything else. – Emmett 05:01, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Afyer attempting to gather info for a week or two, here’s what the current consensus is. Is it passed, failed, or unclear as of yet?

Support

Lou Cena (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · Cena WHOIS): The one who made the proposal in the first place. Is currently attempting to test a new version of said template change in the Sandbox. Has no idea how to actually create tabs. Lou Cena (talk) 18:20, 11 February 2019 (EST)

SugarCookie420 (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): The one who suggested using tabs in the first place. See his talk page for more. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

DryKirby64 (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS) DryKirby64 (talk) 20:17, 12 February 2019 (EST)

Neutral

Toomai (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): disagrees with having the two images in the infobox without tabs. Neutral about the tabs. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

Unclear

Miles of SmashWiki (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · of SmashWiki WHOIS): disagrees with having two images in the infobox without tabs. Stance on tabs is unknown, as said proposition was suggested after he had given his stance on the issue. See Template talk:Infobox Character general. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

Pokepub (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): agrees with the notion that we should have major alternate costumes listed. Disagreed with the currently proposed notion of what actually is a major alternate costume previously, but current agreement on what qualifies as a major alternae costume is unknown due to not having commented here since. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

AmoongussForLife (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): agrees with the notion that major alternate costumes should be in the imagebox. Disagrees with the use of tabs. Could possibly be considered a supporter. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

Serpent King (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · King WHOIS): talked about this on his talk page. Did not give an opinion

Lou Cena (talk) 18:53, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Alternate Smash Artwork

I have a question about a character's alternate Smash art. In their character pages, are characters suppose to have their alternate art (Advent Cloud, Male Inkling) in their Smash bios? (I'm not talking about their main bios) I ask because someone recently added them and I thought someone (an Admin) told me awhile back that they were supposed to be in the character's Gallery instead. Could you help clear my confusion? Wolff (talk) 02:00, 15 February 2019 (EST)

The person has also added them to characters like Wario, Little Mac, Bayonetta, and Isabelle. Are they really suppose to be there? It doesn't look right. Though, I could be mistaken. Wolff (talk) 04:30, 15 February 2019 (EST)

In my opinion those should be in galleries at most and absolutely not full thumbnails like that. Miles (talk) 15:45, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Would you please explain why? In my opinion it looks even worse when they are placed in galleries, as they end uo being mixed in with images of a different category (on general pages, it ends up being fighter artwork being mixed in with series-canon artowrk, and on fighter pages, it ends up being fighter artwork being mixed in with gameplay.) In fact, is there any explicit rule stating that they should be in the gallery? Lou Cena (talk) 17:25, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Should I take this to the general proposals thread? I already have another proposal going on, though, and I’m not sure if multiple simulteneous proposals per user are allowed. Lou Cena (talk) 17:38, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Very little is set in "explicit rules", but you're attempting to alter years of good precedent on a pretty flimsy basis. The point of keeping the spare images in the gallery is to avoid excessive whitespace and visual clutter. An edit like this stretches the page vertically with huge blank whitespace while also cluttering more images onto the sides of the text unnecessarily. Miles (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2019 (EST)

About the whitespace, that will easily be solved when we have more torunament results, thus eliminating whitespace for Ultimate’s. As you can see, there is next no whitespace at all for smash 4, due to tournament results being mentioned in that section but not Ultimate’s. Visually, it’s actually more clutter when they are placed in the galleries, because like I said before, they end up mixed in with either series-canon artwork or gameplay images; or they are needlessly separated from their game of origin. Additionally, if there were 3 images being added there, I could see what you mean by uneccessary. However, one image being added barely shifts the text at all. Lou Cena (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Do you really think this is "no whitespace at all"? Really? Miles (talk) 18:04, 15 February 2019 (EST)

I’m using a mobile phone on desktop mode, so it displayed differently for me. My bad. How about instead of being aorted through vertically, they get sorted through that horizontally? I see what you mean by stretching it out vertically now, but I stand by that the gallery is not the appropriate place for them. As I said before, it fits better when they’re actually placed in their game of origin instead of shoved aside to another section. Lou Cena (talk) 18:09, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Adding the image stacked horizontally would push text down in a different but equivalently-bad way. The whole point of galleries on a wiki is to display images that don't fit neatly into the body of the article otherwise but should still be included, and this is precisely such a case. It is honestly about as textbook of a case as possible of "when to use a gallery instead of putting the image in the body of an article". Miles (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2019 (EST)

I don’t think it’s fair to judge the horizontal image suggestion until it’s been done. Otherwise, I understand where you’re coming from, even if I don’t entirely agree. At tthe vwry least, the alternate costume images should be enlarged though. Lou Cena (talk) 18:46, 15 February 2019 (EST)

I've seen the double-wide thumbnails for two images placed horizontally like that before, and as I've already stated, it's quite disruptive. What size the images are in the gallery isn't something I have strong feelings about, so long as they aren't excessively large. Miles (talk) 23:34, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Hopefully this’ll be the last thing I’ll bring up, but why exactly would whitespace cause more clutter han disprganized images? As i stated before, I personally think that the images should be in with the game they were with for organizational issues (as the gallery displayes them with series-canon images, as in the case of Inkling and Isabelle), so i’m wondering why you’d think whitespace would be less organized. In fact, with characters like Ike, there would still be the issue of whitespace, due to there only being one image in that gallery. Lou Cena (talk) 16:01, 18 February 2019 (EST)

I brought this over to the general proposals if you want to debunk me further. I’m open to ehatever critisism you have, and even set up a section for debunks and arguments for both sides. Lou Cena (talk) 00:45, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Pages to improve

Could you add Meta Knight (SSBU) and R.O.B. (SSBU) to the list? They are the only 2 who don't have a complete moveset table. SugarCookie 420 15:59, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Non-Smash Wiki Links

I was curious why Little Mac, Shulk, and all the Third-Party characters (and their related media that have pages) currently don't have links to their respective Wikis like everyone else? I was trying to figure out how to link Cloud to the Final Fantasy Wiki instead of Wikipedia (like everyone/thing mentioned before is currently linked to). Is there a reason why they don't link to their wikis? I would have thought Shulk and Sonic would have, but they don't. Wolff (talk) 23:58, 18 February 2019 (EST)

General policy is to use interwiki links in infoboxes only when there's a NIWA wiki to link to, or else to Wikipedia, and only use links to Wikia wikis when no other wiki for the series is available - and even then, only to link them in an "External links" section at the bottom of the page. Miles (talk) 00:40, 20 February 2019 (EST)

If it is not currently apart of the NIWA, then it can only link to a Wikipedia page of it? But then what exactly do you mean by, "only use links to Wikia wikis when no other wiki for the series is available". Are those non-NIWA wikis not able to be link outside of the "External links". We couldn't add the external links where the wiki would have been like Mario's? (it's unfortunate we can't provide shortcut links to these other wikis in the same way that would provide the reader with more sufficient information)

Side note: Apparently there's talks that the Zelda Wiki may be removed from the NIWA wiki in the future. What would happen to all the Zelda links here if that were to pass? (I know that's probably not a pressing matter right now and will be dealt with when the time comes. I was just wondering if others here already knew about that) Wolff (talk) 16:25, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Not something to worry about. Zelda Wiki is simply contemplating their next move at the moment. Serpent  King 16:37, 20 February 2019 (EST)

So they can't link the same way as the NIWA wikis, and have to be in the external links (if it even has that section)? Wolff (talk) 03:45, 21 February 2019 (EST)

Spirits on Fighter Pages

All fighters have Spirits on both their fighter and main character pages. I was wondering how they should look? Link Peach's, like Pikachu's, or like Link's? I don't think it should be like Link's as the actual tables are slowly being added. I"m just curious if all the info of the Spirits is necessary on the pages of playable characters. Wolff (talk) 00:29, 19 February 2019 (EST)

To be honest, all of those are pretty cluttered, but the Link one probably the least so. Miles (talk) 00:40, 20 February 2019 (EST)

So fighter pages and the fighters' main pages should have it as a gallery (like Link's is currently) instead of a Spirit Table? I feel that breaks consistency with the Spirits on other pages. I know it seems cluttered (especially Peach's), but I feel the only information that really should be listed on the fighter's main pages should be just the Number, Image, Type, and Art Origin. (Type could be removed as well) I'll change Peach's and Pikachu's back to galleries if you think a gallery is actually more sufficient than using tables like the others. Wolff (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2019 (EST)

No.	Image	Name	Type	Origin Game
5		Peach	Fighter Spirit	Super Mario Bros. (Artwork: New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
27		Baby Peach	Support	Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Artwork: Mario Super Sluggers)

Wolff (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Frankly, I think any listing of the spirits is going to be very bloated for some characters. After thinking it over, I'd recommend either using the gallery layout or, if using a tabular layout, having it in a show/hide box that's hidden by default so as not to stretch the page vertically too much. Miles (talk) 19:23, 20 February 2019 (EST)

By "tabular layout", do you mean one like the character roster? Regardless, I don't think I know how to do that. Wolff (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2019 (EST)

On another note, should the "main Link" have all Link related Spirits? I ask as he currently does, while Young Link and Toon Link only have the ones that relate to them specifically. (It would only be removing 7 out of the 18 Spirits that he currently has on his page[s]) Wolff (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2019 (EST)

By "tabular" I just meant in a table, like what you posted for Peach; if done that way, I'd advise using a show/hide box like on Music (SSBU) (I still think the gallery format is a smidge less obtrusive, but eh). I also think the Link list should probably cover only those Links not explicitly considered Young Link or Toon Link, but that's pretty subjective. Miles (talk) 22:12, 20 February 2019 (EST)

What about on a fighter's Ultimate page? Should that be the exception? I tried copy pasting Peach's table to her fighter page, but I wasn't sure if it fit there. Trophies tend to be an exception on fighter pages being separate from their descriptions. I'm not entirely sure which to use on the main pages now.

A lot of characters' Ultimate section seem empty. With a few exceptions, a lot just say along the lines of, "returns as a playable character and not as a starting character". The "Gallery" may work, but I feel more information is needed in their Ultimate section for that to work. I know most characters' Melee sections are mainly filled by the trophies' descriptions, but Spirits don't have descriptions.

I know the Universe pages then to just list them like the trophies, but I don't know if that would really work on character pages. Perhaps I am over thinking this. Wolff (talk) 02:23, 21 February 2019 (EST)

I set up a certain system: make it a gallery format, bold the fighter spirits, and italicize the fighter spirits obtained from classic. Hopefully that should work. Look on Link’s Ultimate section.

And about the empty character sections, I was planning on adding in the likes of female corrin and advent cloud into those, but that’s currently being debated on if that should even happen. While here would be whitespace, at the very least it could be organized and not completely empty. I don’t know if that’s the best suggestion though, as you’re the one who removed them in the first place. If there’s something else we can do, I guess we can wait for more tournament results.Lou Cena (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2019 (EST)

Using the alternate art isn't really necessary, as using the main art is sufficient. Regardless, the Spirits have the same problem, if not less so, by creating white space as it is a "Gallery". With this, the white space is not caused by the Spirit gallery/table, it is caused by a lack of information of the section before the Spirit gallery. Notable players and tournament results go on the character's respective fighter pages, not their main page, of which I'm talking about. Despite that, there should be more information about the characters in Ultimate other than "they return" or "they used to be an assist". However, I do understand that many may not have enough info to fill it out. The main difference I see between the trophies and Spirits is the Spirits don't have descriptions to fill it out. The size of the table is determined by the text in it. That's why it's not that stretched out on Pichu's page, but it kind of is on Peach's.

Now that I'm thinking about it again, we did not seem to have a problem with the Stickers doing it. Then again, sticker sections are kind of more horizontal than vertical. I mainly ask how we go about on the main character pages as many are adding the Spirit Tables on the wiki (plus a second one if it grants it. Fairy Bottle + All that give the user a Fairy Bottle) and will eventually do it to the fighter and main pages. Peach was the first. I had done Pikachu as an experiment do its small amount. (I feel it works on the non-fighter pages)

Let me rephrase my question: Should the fighter pages, and their main pages, be the exception and have their Spirits as a gallery instead some kind of a table? Wolff (talk) 03:43, 21 February 2019 (EST)

In my opinion the preferred layout is to have the gallery on the character general page (and add a write-up about tourney stuff and general changes rather than leaving the section's body text too short), and not to list the spirits on the Character (SSBU) page at all because they're already on two other pages at that point (the character general page and the series spirit lists). Miles (talk) 23:33, 21 February 2019 (EST)

To me, the Spirits look find on the (SSBU) fighter pages when shown as a gallery. But I guess removing them from their (SSBU) fighter pages could work as we don't include the stickers on any (SSBB) fighter page. Most likely because they too do not have descriptions. However, tourney related information is only ever noted in their fighter pages, not their main page. But I agree that more general information is needed in their (SSBU) sections. I wonder if it would be possible to create a table like the sticker table to be used for the Spirits. Honestly, removing the pictures does makes it seem like the stickers. However, I do prefer how it is done with the stickers. Wolff (talk) 01:23, 22 February 2019 (EST)

Another thing I'm curious about is the Spirits of the non-fighter pages. How would we go about them? For example: should item Spirits include the ones that grant the item, or just of itself? Wolff (talk) 01:23, 22 February 2019 (EST)

The non-fighter pages are actually completely fine. I’m still a little iffy on removing the spirits from the ____ (SSBU) pages

We should leave only the Fighter spirits on the SSBU pages; this follows the precedent set by trophies in Smash 4. As for galleries vs. table, I feel that we should do something similar to how the stickers are listed: a small table with the gallery below. AmoongussForLife Talk 21:02, 23 February 2019 (EST)

What do you mean by "the precedent set by trophies in Smash 4"? All the Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 fighter pages include the character's trophies. The Brawl ones however don't include the stickers, only the trophies. I say it would make more sense to remove the Spirits from the Ultimate pages as they don't have descriptions, similar to the stickers. The fighter's main pages include both trophies and sticker so it would make sense that it would include Spirits as well.

And yes, I agree (like I mentioned earlier) that we should do something similar (if not the same) as the stickers from Brawl for all the Spirits from Ultimate. Wolff (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2019 (EST)

[Example] Rank and Ability could be added

No.	Name	Type	Origin Game
5	Peach	Fighter Spirit	Super Mario Bros. (Artwork: New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
27	Baby Peach	Support	Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Artwork: Mario Super Sluggers)

• 

  5. Peach

• 

  27. Baby Peach

[Example] Wolff (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2019 (EST)

Should I clear the spam on your talk page?

I noticed that some IP spammed 5 sections on your page some time ago. Is it fine if I remove it, or is removing talk page content against the rules, regardless of spam or vandalism. If I have permission, I will delete this section as well. Lou Cena (talk) 00:44, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Just leave it, if Miles didn't remove it for vandalism then there isn't a reason to remove it. SugarCookie 420 17:53, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Hey

In your spirits sandbox, you forgot Adeline and Porky!!! Adeline should’ve been a spirit battle with with the Vince and Nikki Assist trophies because they remind me of Adeline too! Inkling could be Adeline and Jigglypuff could be Ribbon. Porky could be Wario as Porky and Bowser Jr.’s Clown Car as the machine. Also, you forgot Ness as SANS UNDERTALE (Original joke, amirite?). 174.55.24.64 01:46, April 26, 2019 (EDT)

3 Spirit Battle Requests

Hector (Gyromite): Dr. Mario with ROB in Mario Bros. with Gyromite music playing.

Penguin (Mario 64): Little King Dedede with giant Dedede coming later on Summit with Mario 64 music playing.

Timber the Tiger (Diddy Kong Racing): Incineroar with Diddy Kong with Mario Kart items in Mario Circuit Wii U with DKC music playing. 174.55.24.64 00:33, May 7, 2019 (EDT)

Spirit vs Infobox

Shouldn't the images used in the infoboxes be a different file than what is used for their Spirits? Someone can "Upload a new version of this file", but what if someone tries to do it with the image of the infobox without knowing it that it is also used for the Spirits? I know it is more common to upload a separate file, but that is why I keep putting in the summery along the lines of "to differ from Spirit". Like if someone were to update it the picture so it matches the character's recent or more accurate appearance? The stickers are different files. Yes they have a white outline, but still. I know its fine because the Spirit render is of higher quality, but it'd be nice to avoid things like this file's history. I know that was an AFD joke, but its still the same situation. What if someone was not aware of AFD were to replace the image with a duplicate? I usually try to find a different render to make the difference of the files and their usage more obvious. I know this wouldn't be the first, or last, time a file would have to be reuploaded because of this. I think it is necessary in order to avoid that. Is it really that bad of thing to make the files differ for those reasons? If so, please explain in detail so that I may properly understand the reasons. Wolff (talk) 15:37, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

1) Spirit images should never be adjusted, as they're in-game file data and should by all accounts be included on a page like SmashWiki:Protected image list/Extracted files. 2) Infobox art should be changed sparingly at most. Unless a new game non-negligibly alters a character design AND said alteration is Smash-relevant, we can leave art as-is for years without issue. There's no urgency to using "newer" art in 99% of cases. Miles (talk) 15:42, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

If the Spirit images should not be adjusted, shoudln't their pages be protected from editing? Same for stickers?

And I didn't necessarily mean a newer/difering image, that's just to make the diffrince more obvious. I'm more concern about the infobox image being a different file from the Spirit image. Even if the images used were to match, shouldn't they be separate files? Wolff (talk) 16:06, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

Yes, sticker/spirit images should be protected. That was my point. I may discuss doing so with the other admins. As per your other point, if the spirit image is appropriate to use as the infobox image, for what reason would they need to be separate files? Miles (talk) 16:14, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

To avoid it being edited. But I guess it would not be a problem, aside from possible image redundancy, if the Spirits were protected. Using different images can also help the page from looking repetitive with the same image multiple times on the page. But my main concern was about editing the infobox image effecting the Spirit image. Wolff (talk) 16:33, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I do have to agree with the idea that, while the image can remain the same (for example, Alucard's art from SotN is better for the infobox than his portrait), having a separate file would not be a bad idea, to prevent someone from uploading a higher quality version of said image over the Spirit's file, should they be the same. With that said, if we truly want consistency in that idea, then all of these (barring the few characters that don't have a page on the wiki) would need to be changed. Aidan, the Rurouni 16:42, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

You mean the files' names, correct? Or do you mean adding duplicates? Wolff (talk) 16:47, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

(resent indent) While I understand the point about redundancy to an extent, certain pieces of official artwork are extremely iconic for a character and it would be a disservice to insist on using some less-prominent alternative just because Smash also used the same iconic art. Similarly, some characters have few pieces of official artwork and there's not really an alternative to use anyways. On top of all of that, spirit images are generally displayed at a relatively small size. So I think, in general, we should assume that sticker/spirit images, by nature of being pre-existing renders, may be slightly redundant, but that for various reasons that redundancy shouldn't be taken as a reason to change anything to do with the rest of the page. I hope that makes sense.
Edit conflict: I vehemently disagree with Aidan about adding duplicate files. If the spirit render is usable for multiple purposes, that's fine. It should be protected from re-upload regardless. Miles (talk) 16:49, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I just meant if they had any alternate art available. If they don't have any alternative art that would work, then they don't. But yes, the Spirit imiges (and stickers) should be protected. But afterwards, that does beg the question about the pages that still use duplicates (if there are still any) if they should be left alone. Wolff (talk) 16:57, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

It's not a high priority to replace duplicate uploads, but there's no benefit to using them either. Miles (talk) 17:11, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

(Meant to put this up earlier, but had internet issues) On second thought, after looking it over, a lot of spirit files aren't as low quality as I thought they would be, so having the infobox and spirit images being one and the same might not be a terrible idea. However, I still would argue that, if there is a game that comes out with better artwork of a character (i.e., let's say P5R has better renders of the Phantom Thieves), then we would have separate files. Aidan, the Rurouni 17:24, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

As I mentioned, I think infobox images should be changed sparingly; that said, when it may be appropriate to do so, it should be on a case-by-case basis. In such a case where consensus decides to replace infobox usage of a spirit image with a different piece of art, then the separate piece of art should be uploaded separately and the spirit image would remain untouched. Miles (talk) 17:27, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I would say only of it comes out with different art that would work. Mario currently still uses his art from Odyssey as he has Cappy in a taught. Unless a future Mario game had both, that one is probably not going to be changed any time soon. It mainly depends if its not simply to update to the most recent appearance or the quality. Wolff (talk) 17:50, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

Yiga symbol

Why did the Yiga symbol count as "bloat"? Could it not have been added to the Yiga's gallery instead? Wolff (talk) 15:38, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

What, that is relevant to Smash, does it illustrate that is not already illustrated by the images on the page? Miles (talk) 15:42, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I was thinking along the lines that some non-Zelda fans may not know of the fact that the Yiga symbol it is the symbol of the Sheikah upside down. Either that they did not know, or framilar with, BotW, the Yiga, the Sheikah, or the Zelda serires. Wolff (talk) 16:06, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

That's what interwiki links are for. It's not especially important to depict on a wiki about Smash. Miles (talk) 16:14, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

Hi

Just letting you know that I believe you to be the worst admin on the site. If you were applying today you would never pass an RfA and if you care about the integrity of this wiki you should resign.

- The Scribbler

172.98.87.146 17:20, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

A spirit battle request

Navi from Ocarina of Time: Blue Kirby that spams taunts with Young Link on Hyrule Castle while Ocarina of Time Medley plays. 174.55.24.64 10:59, June 9, 2019 (EDT)

Hey Miles

Why haven’t you updated your Upcoming appearances sandbox since over a year until today? Have you liked our edits along the way? It’s great that you’re back to editing! 174.55.24.64 19:40, July 23, 2019 (EDT)

I've simply not been focused on wiki editing much as of late, other than when there's been news; I was feeling rather burned-out on regularly checking the wiki. I'm glad the page has been of use. Miles (talk) 21:53, July 23, 2019 (EDT)

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how have long you've been on SmashWiki? Juju1995 (talk) 01:34, July 24, 2019 (EDT)

I'm not 100% sure what you meant, since it looks like you might've missed a word there. If you were asking how long I've been on the wiki, I made my first edit in May 2008. If you were asking how I've been doing in regard to the wiki, I was just feeling somewhat burned-out and needed a bit of a break before returning to being more active. Miles (talk) 01:43, July 24, 2019 (EDT)

Sandbox

You used to have all SSB4 characters by trophies along with Assist Trophies, Legendary Pokémon, and items, and a deleted sandbox with all Mario Maker costumes (not in Mario Maker 2) by trophy along with SSB4 characters’s original artwork. You could bring these back but with spirits. 174.201.0.145 18:25, July 31, 2019 (EDT)

I don't plan to. Sorry. Miles (talk) 19:28, July 31, 2019 (EDT)

Quick question

I'm currently in a debate with an IP on my talk page about whether your sandbox should contain stickers in it. The IP cited this edit to its talk page, but then you didn't seem to mind when DigitalHazard added the stickers in. Should they be there or not? Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer Leave a message if needed 01:10, August 4, 2019 (EDT)

I didn't catch it because I was focused on one section. I'm going to simply put it this way: that page is not up for public editing whatsoever. Please, neither of you touch it from now on. Miles (talk) 11:29, August 4, 2019 (EDT)

Miles

Update your upcoming appearances sandbox. 174.55.24.64 23:09, September 4, 2019 (EDT)

Shovel Knight page artwork

Hello there! I have noticed that you have reverted my edit of updating Shovel Knight's main art to his artwork used in Shovel Knight Dig. Why? Shouldn't we use his more recent appearance for his artwork? Shinobi76 (talk) 17:49, September 5, 2019 (EDT) Shinobi76 (talk) 17:49, September 5, 2019 (EDT)

"More recent" artwork is very rarely worthwhile unless the character's Smash design has changed and we need to use different art to match. I'd especially discourage updating it in the case of spinoffs or side-games with differing art styles. Miles (talk) 17:51, September 5, 2019 (EDT)

This

You seem to have misunderstood the point of the edit. I'm aware that it's technically correct to use they in that context, but it doesn't look right, nor does it read well. In these cases it's always better to avoid using pronouns at all where possible. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 19:14, September 9, 2019 (EDT)

If I may, that's an incredibly subjective point of view, and I think Miles is in the right here. It isn't "technically" correct, it's literally the proper way to refer to them. Removing pronouns just to avoid the singular they is even clumsier, in my opinion. (Not to mention, we use singular they multiple times on pages like Robin, Corrin, and so on.) ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 19:20, September 9, 2019 (EDT)

In addition to the above, it's also not setting a good precedent to intentionally sidestep someone's chosen pronouns. Miles (talk) 19:22, September 9, 2019 (EDT)

Daemon x Machina

How do you know so I can tell Turtles about this? 174.55.24.64 21:43, September 24, 2019 (EDT)

For future reference, Spirit Board events are usually announced first on the official Japanese Twitter account for Smash. Miles (talk) 02:39, September 25, 2019 (EDT)

Elements in the Nav List

You said that this is not how it's done. What's the criteria then?

From what I can see, stuff like the Power Pellets or the Clay Pigeons are not different from F.L.U.D.D., the Peanut Popgun, The Hookshot or any other personal character item that has gameplay effect. Except the trophies at least give them an official name. 177.180.239.169 20:31, January 16, 2020 (EST)

F.L.U.D.D. is a character, so it's somewhat more permissible. The other two definitely shouldn't be on the nav templates, and I've removed them accordingly. Miles (talk) 20:41, January 16, 2020 (EST)

In that case, the Wild Gunmen should at least count too, who aren't objects, but summonable characters that are part of Duck Hunt's moveset akin to Gomorrah or Phantom. 177.180.239.169 15:56, January 17, 2020 (EST)

Hello there

You're reverting my edits because it's a huge restructuration. I've started a discussion about it, and you know what happened, nobody replied to hit, just like always. People don't talk about huge restructuration, they don't want to, the only way to do a huge restructuration is to force it and to let other people make it better piece by piece. I know it for I already went throught one. It was the one about separating the spirit battles from their data. Nobody wanted to talk about it, so I just did it, and everybody agreed it was needed, once done. Now I'm gonna be very straight forward with you: it took me a huge amount of work to do all that today, so either you revert it before someone else changes the content of the page, or it's over, because I won't redo it all by myself after someone else make an edit that makes it impossible to revert your undo. YoshiRyu (talk) 15:56, January 31, 2020 (EST)

Also, I just saw you're reverting it manually, their are tools for doing so, and if you don't have access to those tool, that probably mean you should do that. YoshiRyu (talk) 15:58, January 31, 2020 (EST)

1) Where was the discussion? 2) Did you bump it when people initially didn't reply to it? CookiesCreme 16:00, January 31, 2020 (EST)

The idea poped here https://www.ssbwiki.com/Talk:List_of_spirits_(disambiguation)#Repurposing_the_.22Series_Order.22_section.3F and I then made a separate talk to avoid any confusion there https://www.ssbwiki.com/Talk:List_of_spirits_(disambiguation)#Spirits_Origin_section YoshiRyu (talk) 16:25, January 31, 2020 (EST)

While I respect that you put in a lot of work, also understand that "nobody replied" is not "we have consensus to go for it". I for one vehemently oppose the restructuring as you did it. I did not use rollback because that's for cases of bad faith, which this clearly is not. I don't like feeling like I'm dismissing your effort, but there are standards for how to go about doing something like this and making sweeping changes across many, many pages without consensus is not the way to do things. Miles (talk) 16:04, January 31, 2020 (EST)

Except this is not a huge change, it's just moving a column. It only looks huge because there are 1400 spirits. If I was doing so with a column about fighters data, you wouldn't even care. Change doesn't happen until someone provoke it. You want to talk about it, go ahead, I bet you that no consensus will ever happen. Want a solid evidence of that? Look at the discussion about separating the battles from the spirits stats, it's still there, and it still a no man's land... YoshiRyu (talk) 16:25, January 31, 2020 (EST)

It's removing arguably the most important element of a spirit, the name of the source game, from the main table. I would be hard-pressed to think of a more major change. I understand being frustrated by the difficulty in securing consensus on a wiki, but forcing a major change through on dozens of pages as once is not a reasonable alternative. Miles (talk) 16:28, January 31, 2020 (EST)

First, it's not the most important element of a spirit, unarguably, this information isn't even Smash related. And secondly, I did not remove that information, I just moved it down in the page, and put it right next to the spirit series. YoshiRyu (talk) 16:41, January 31, 2020 (EST)

I said "arguably" for a reason. While it's subjective, in my opinion the source game of the spirit and its artwork is of far greater importance than its literal gameplay numbers. And while you may not have removed this information altogether, you essentially "demoted" it out of the main table. My point is that it's not as clear-cut as you seem to think. Miles (talk) 16:46, January 31, 2020 (EST)

Demoted? Wait what? I put it with similar informations that where already in the page. I'm not the one considering there is a "main" table, and I'm certainly not the one who decided that this array should be at the bottom of the page, don't blame this on me. If I were this kind of guy, I would have put the Spirit Battles array at the top of the page, that array is basically my very own baby. Origin Game was grouped with the gameplay numbers, as you say, very unfitting, meanwhile on the same page, there is another table that list the spirits series (all the spirits, without a separation by use), I simply removed an information from an inadequat place, and put it in beside another similar information. Origin Game and Series side by side, makes sense to me, nothing to do with demoting anything. YoshiRyu (talk) 17:00, January 31, 2020 (EST)

I believe you've somewhat missed my point. Again, it's subjective, but I would think that saying "this spirit is from this game" would be most appropriate in the first table a reader sees, not in a separate table at the bottom of the page. I hope that makes sense. Miles (talk) 17:07, January 31, 2020 (EST)

And you're missing mine. I'm not arguing about what information should be first. I'm arguing about Origin Game having nothing to do with Stats or Effect, and having more to do with Series. You want the Origin Game to be the first thing people see, fine, but I'm not interested in that discussion and it has nothing to do with the restructuration I was doing. But if you want to have my opinion on this, here it is: A wiki purpose is to allow people to find the informations they're looking for, and I'm pretty sure most of the people who click on the spirits list are more interested in the gameplay numbers than in the spirit history, and I'm pretty sure that the most important information in the whole page is Acquisition, because mostly, users will come here to find out how to get the spirits they're missing. But yet again, my restructuration has nothing to do with that, I wasn't demoting anything, I was reorganising the informations in a more cohesive way, and by doing so, allowing both the Primary Spirits array to be expended (because the sorting feature can't be used on a single stats column) and the Artwork Origin to be its own column (not my own idea, but I adopted it as soon as I saw Capstalkers starting to do it). YoshiRyu (talk) 17:29, January 31, 2020 (EST)

"I'm pretty sure most of the people who click on the spirits list are more interested in the gameplay numbers than in the spirit history"

I absolutely, thoroughly, disagree. Personal feelings on the page's layout aside: if you're going to be rearranging dozens of pages, you 100% need to get consensus around the idea before doing so. Not "provoking change" and dealing with the consequences later. Miles (talk) 17:32, January 31, 2020 (EST)

Not what I did for the Spirit Battles, and that was a way bigger restructuration. A restructuration that is still there, while there is still no consensus about it. So go ahead, wait for that consensus to happen. But by the time it does, I won't be willing to do it anymore. Because you can say all you want that you don't like feeling like your dismissing my efforts, the reality is still that you just casually throw away 10 hours of my life, and I won't do it again, not a single chance. Everything I've done today was a pure waste of time, and I hate wasting my time. YoshiRyu (talk) 18:02, January 31, 2020 (EST)

You don't get to unilaterally decide on page structure, as is detailed on SW:CONSENSUS. You must have consensus for stuff like this, period. SerpentKing 17:43, January 31, 2020 (EST)

Yet again, you're all saying that, but I made the whole Spirit Battle restructuration without any consensus, and you know what happened than? You asked me to create a user account... I think you all missing what I'm saying: I won't do it ever again. Even if you get a consensus, and I doubt you ever will, the day I was available to do this was today. So no matter what happen, you already threw 10 hours of my work and just killed my motivation and good will to do that very laborious task. YoshiRyu (talk) 18:02, January 31, 2020 (EST)

I want it fully clear that my issue isn't in what you've done, it's in how you've done it, as I have explained. SerpentKing 18:49, January 31, 2020 (EST)

It's clear. But I still think asking for a consensus is not working. How can there be any consensus on a wiki with thousands of contributors (I assume) when no discussion ever involves more than 10 people? I've been here for a year now, and I never saw a consensus once. The only times I've ever been able to do some big work have always been by being the source of the change, and then let people iterate on what I made. And for this case in particular, there is a total lack of consistence because I need a consensus to move a column, but nobody need a consensus to add a column (or even a full section)... So if the one who added this column just randomly put it the other array to begin with, that would be fine, but me moving it to that same array for an actual reason, not fine? You don't see a problem there? I'm not gonna lie, I'm salty, and I'm totally venting right now, I'm self-aware, but I really think you have an actual process problem there, thinking this is for the best, while it very likely just cripples the wiki. If one does such a modification without consensus, what can happen? Either most people will complain, and they will quickly revert it themself, or everybody will be fine with it and the wiki will move forward. Getting a consensus in a talk, that never happens, the only thing close to a consensus I ever saw here is contributors starting helping for a modification started by someone else. All the discussions I've ever seen here always ended in postponing (and maybe we should stop talking about this here, that's another user talk page, it will drive him crazy, if you want to discuss this with me, probably better to next reply on my own talk page). YoshiRyu (talk) 19:27, January 31, 2020 (EST)

Litterally more than a year later: Not a single contributor has provided an opinion on the topic... So please tell me, how do I get a consensus? Waiting for a consensus does not work, the wiki is not well designed for such a validation process. So in the end, I proposed to rework the spirit pages to make them less bloated and more readable, and it has been denied on the sole reason that a single mod didn't agree. So please tell me, while you keep telling everywhere that mods aren't above the other contributors, why is it that Miles got the right to deny my proposition based on the sole reason that he didn't liked it (for personnal reason on top of it) while I was expected to have many people to validate it? Please tell me again how it is fair that I have to get a consensus while he only can say "no" without himself having to get a consensus to deny the proposition? YoshiRyu (talk) 07:23, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Generally speaking you need to get people to agree that a change to the status quo is superior to what currently exists, or else the status quo will remain. That's a feature, not a bug, designed to keep long-running systems or organization from being altered too easily. Miles (talk) 09:40, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Specifically speaking, it doesn't work on a wiki, because there is no notification system that let know people there is an open topic going on to being with, a wiki is not an actual forum. Simply put, how do you get people to agree (or disagree) to a change when people aren't even aware there is a change proposed? My point is still the same about it than one year prior: A wiki is not designed for such a validation process to work, people don't know there are pending topics, people don't scout every single page to check if there are pending discussions. In this very case, pretty much nobody ever check the "List of Spirits hub" talk page, so much that if I wanted people to comment on it, I would better have copy-pasted the talk on every single series page, quite spamy if you ask me. Also, sidenote, reworking a page layout doesn't qualify as changing the status quo to me.

By the way, your main point was that you wanted the "origin games" to remain on top of the page, which is something didn't even care about. All I wanted was to move the origin col out of the stats arrays and group them with the series col as it make more sense to group series and origin games than to put it with the power and defense and others spirits stats. And while I don't think your reason for wanting the origin games to remain on top really matters, I however think that it could make sense to have such a series+origin array first but for a totaly different reason: It would not be a bad idead to have those pages to start with a "complete list" of the spirits rather than several arrays that are alreay separated by spirit types. So in the end, I would even agree with the order: series+origin, fighter/primary/support/master spirits, battles, and then "per spirit" trivia points (to separate the spirit inspiration from the battle data, and allow people to put inspirations that are outside of the range of the battle itself, as why such spirit as such effect and stuffs, something about which people keep add and remove lines in the pages). YoshiRyu (talk) 10:29, February 18, 2021 (EST)

I don't love that suggestion either, to be honest. I understand you're a bit frustrated with the systems in play here, but certain things are inherent to the ways wikis function. Miles (talk) 10:35, February 18, 2021 (EST)

That's a confusing reply. When you say that you don't like the suggestion, are you talking about the spirit list pages rework, or are you replying to my comment about the uneffectiveness of the wiki design for global talks? YoshiRyu (talk) 10:54, February 18, 2021 (EST)

The former. In my opinion it would just cause different problems from your last suggestion. Miles (talk) 11:16, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Well, someone just archived said talk page. I guess that's my cue to revamp that proposition on the brand new talk page, I'll do that at the end of the week, hoping that way I'll be able to make something well written. I hope you'll elaborate on those different problems then. I also hope this time more people will participate in the discussion, because it is indeed frustrating to be denied on the sole ground that people just don't comment. YoshiRyu (talk) 11:34, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Hey miles

Are you gonna update your sandbox? 174.55.24.64 19:00, July 3, 2020 (EDT)

At some point, maybe. Don't make a big deal out of it, please. Miles (talk) 19:52, July 3, 2020 (EDT)

About your sandbox

If Super Smash Bros has multiple games, would the character appearances by each game section be gone or not along with the chronical order debut section? 174.55.24.64 19:02, October 15, 2020 (EDT)

You might want to consider laying off the sandboxes for a while dude, as you've been spending more than your fair share of time in them. SmashWiki is not a personal profile - and that includes excessively editing other people's sandboxes. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 20:35, October 15, 2020 (EDT)

Character blurbs

Why are you removing them? They seem harmless, and might engage the reader. Blue Ninjakoopa 15:33, October 25, 2020 (EDT)

Bloat, mainly. Many of them added little of value to a page, they weren't being applied consistently, and were pushing down the actual body text of the article by quite a bit. (Also, unrelatedly, it's cool to see that someone else from "the olden days" of SmashWiki is still around. Hiya.) Miles (talk) 15:46, October 25, 2020 (EDT)

I see. And likewise. It seems we're the only remaining SmashWiki OGs. How are you during these trying times? Blue Ninjakoopa 03:41, October 26, 2020 (EDT)

As well as anyone can be given the circumstances. Hopefully the same is true for you. Miles (talk) 04:41, October 26, 2020 (EDT)

SakuraiWhy

stop deleting my page bro, i need it

--SakuraiWhy 13:09, November 2, 2020 (EST)

Maybe reading this will help S3AHAWK The Thankful One 13:14, November 2, 2020 (EST)

Lucario

For all Pokémon owned by ash, they say in the description about ash that should include Lucario. 174.198.13.67 23:04, November 13, 2020 (EST)

The only really Smash-relevant Lucario in the anime is the eighth movie one, no? Miles (talk) 23:14, November 13, 2020 (EST)

To be fair, Squirtle and Incineroar in Smash have no direct inspiration from any of the ones that appeared in the anime, and yet their origin sections mention them anyway, so I don't necessarily see a problem with mentioning Ash's Lucario in its origin section. Hell, Ash's Greninja was mentioned on Greninja's origin section even before Ash-Greninja was confirmed to be in Ultimate, and Greninja was added to Smash long before Ash obtained one, so even retroactivity shouldn't be an issue here. SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 00:08, November 14, 2020 (EST)

Wait. Ash doesn't have a Lucario. If you're referring to the Lucario in the eighth movie, it's owned by a character named Sir Aaron. --CirbyoKieeb (talk) 11:52, November 20, 2020 (EST)

You sure about that? SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 16:54, November 20, 2020 (EST)

WAIT, IT EVOLVED? --CirbyoKieeb (talk) 18:18, November 20, 2020 (EST)

hi

HI! I'm new here! --CirbyoKieeb (talk) 11:45, November 20, 2020 (EST)

Unless you're asking for advice or something like that, this isn't proper use of talk pages. SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 16:54, November 20, 2020 (EST)

Regarding my Banjo edit

Maybe we don't need to separate his two debut appearances, but we did so for Fire Emblem Roy and I thought it wouldn't hurt to let people read about Banjo's first adventure

Gligar2007 (talk) 22:06, January 14, 2021 (EST)

Losing animations

Hi Miles, I just wanna ask a curious question. On fighter pages, why don’t they have sections talking about their losing animations? SonDaniel (talk page) 14:03, January 20, 2021 (EST)

Probably since nearly every one is a simple clapping pose, with only a few exceptions. It would be rather hard to find more to say than "So-and-so claps" for the majority of the cast. Miles (talk) 14:55, January 20, 2021 (EST)

Talk:Difficulty

I left a message on Talk:Difficulty for an administrator to review. Can you check it out somewhen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.185.12 (talk • contribs) 05:28, January 23, 2021 (EST)

ICETOP

Took the names from here. Summit was called Ice_Top. https://smashultimatetools.com/prc/Stage/0 Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ 12:33, January 31, 2021 (EST)

Yup, that works. Reverting my undo. Miles (talk) 12:35, January 31, 2021 (EST)

Pyra and Mythra Render

Why did you remove my render from Pyra and Mythra's SmashWiki page entirely instead of just uploading your render as a new version to my render? Arqade (Talk) 20:29, February 17, 2021 (EST)

First of all, I had already uploaded the higher-res render directly from the official website before you uploaded the version you did. Second, it wasn't your render. Third, you shouldn't be using that head icon in your signature since it's a mainspace-use image. Miles (talk) 20:42, February 17, 2021 (EST)

Okay, geez, no need to be rude! Also, I didn't know I couldn't use the head icon. Last I checked, I'm pretty sure you used to be able to use a head icon in your signature, but I guess not anymore, so I'll change it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Arqade (talk • contribs) 22:08, February 17, 2021 (EST)

You can, but you have to upload your own. CookiesCreme 22:10, February 17, 2021 (EST)

Also, I know that the image isn't "my image". It's just easier to say "my image" than "the image that I uploaded". Arqade (talk) 22:19, February 17, 2021 (EST)

Sorry if I came across as a bit hostile. I mistakenly took it that you were being angrily accusatory at me, and I apologize for that. Miles (talk) 22:20, February 17, 2021 (EST)

It's fine. I just edited my signature and uploaded a new icon of some pixel art of my Mii that I made about a week ago. What do you think? Arqade 23:39, February 17, 2021 (EST)

👍 Miles (talk) 23:42, February 17, 2021 (EST)

Archiving

Miles, I think your page is overdue for an archive now... Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 17:57, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Rapetent

So it looks like six months ago you and Serpent King decided to remove the word "Rapetent" from the Hyrule Castle page, and also delete the redirect article "Rapetent", going against the precedent and consensus that was set before and violating numerous wiki policies along the way. I'm going to call out Serpent King too but I will keep the discussion on this page for the sake of clarity, and because you have absolutely no excuse for your actions.

This is a violation of Wiki policy in so many ways and I will list them all here.

• SW:ADMIN states that administrators are not kings. Your edit summary on the page claims that it was an "executive decision," however SmashWiki administrators have no authority to make executive decisions on content-related matters such as here.
• It has been clearly stated that SmashWiki is not censored, and that we will not remove offensive terminology from articles because of this.
• SW:DELETE states that administrators are not allowed to delete articles that do not fall into a speedy delete category without discussion beforehand. Serpent King deleted the Rapetent article with an edit summary of "No." which is a blatant abuse of administrators, while completely ignoring the multiple times the page has been deleted and recreated already.
• SW:CONSENSUS and SW:1RV both state that decisions made by a community consensus will stand as is unless new information or discussion arises that changes the situation. As SmashWiki has had no meaningful changes to the censorship policy in recent times, this clearly does not apply here. A notice was literally written in the article saying "do not remove this information because we are not censored", and you chose to completely ignore it, going against the consensus that was decided. Administrators cannot create consensus on their own.
• In case you might have forgotten, we had a lengthy discussion over seven years ago, where you were called out for abusing your powers to remove and delete content that you didn't like while ignoring the no censorship policies. So why do you feel like you can go ahead and delete it now seven years later, when nothing has changed at all since that discussion and you've supposedly "admitted your faults" and "improved" from the experience? Do you think that just because Omega Tyrant was on hiatus that you could do whatever you want and ignore his discussion (further reinforcing the opinion that you look down upon regular users and only listen to administrators)? Are you really improving, or are you just abusing your administrative powers to get rid of content that you don't like? Do you really think that lowly of the current userbase? Awesome Cardinal 2000 18:06, March 9, 2021 (EST)

It sounds like you don't trust the staff here to make reasonable executive decisions such as "make one exception in order to quash a minor term that the community no longer views as even remotely acceptable to use". This is not exactly the best hill to die on. Toomai Glittershine The Irrepressible 18:22, March 9, 2021 (EST)

"However, admins are promoted to a staff position because the community has agreed that they can be trusted to make tough calls or arbitrary decisions in cases where discussion and diplomacy do not reach a solution. Therefore, when the staff make a decision on a hotly debated or high-visibility topic, users are expected to comply."

The previous conversation had been settled through discussion and diplomacy for seven years, with Miles admitting that he was wrong and no one making any further attempts to remove the content from the article. There were no issues whatsoever until Miles decided to revert everything. What part of "discussion and diplomacy" or "hotly debated" am I missing here? Awesome Cardinal 2000 19:04, March 9, 2021 (EST)

Why is this discussion happening here? Miles had nothing to do with this, the last time he deleted the redirect was way back in 2013. Alex the Weeb 19:10, March 9, 2021 (EST)

He removed the content from the article six months ago (linked in the original text). Awesome Cardinal 2000 19:40, March 9, 2021 (EST)

Considering that the staff seems to be unanimously opposed to you on this subject, I suggest you take some time to think about whether opposing everyone around you in pursuit of inserting language like that into articles is really, really a cause that you want to attach yourself to. Miles (talk) 23:33, March 9, 2021 (EST)

Thanks

👍 Shadow2 (talk) 19:00, March 9, 2021 (EST)

Sorry for bursting in like this, but what exactly are you thanking them for? It isn't exactly ideal to be extremely vague in situations like this. SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 19:22, March 9, 2021 (EST)

Miles had previously mass-reverted all of this user's edits from February (see here). The positive reaction is sarcastic. Nokii — 19:59, March 9, 2021 (EST)

I figured as much, I just wanted to make sure. I also probably should've known that remark was being sarcastic, given this user's behavior the last time I've tried talking to them. SuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle Tribe 20:09, March 9, 2021 (EST)

April Fools

I have one suggestion for April fools: Include Kingdom hearts as a Primary universe and remove it from Dependent universes for a little while. AgedofallStrings (talk) 17:45, March 22, 2021 (EDT)

I need more than just a concept to approve this. Also I am not really sure how this works as a joke. Serpent  King 18:37, March 22, 2021 (EDT)

Here is my April Fools joke "character" page for Masamune

I did this while I was uploading images for the list of swords page and I used Sephiroth's Sword as the subject of the page because I know someone will do a Cloud edit based on clouds like years before. I also did this because I know no one will do this page in April Fools and I wanted something unrealistic because other April Fools pages use characters that can actually be in Smash. Thegameandwatch The Nerd 18:15, March 22, 2021 (EDT)

You should make it more clear that it's supposed to be a character in the opening paragraph, but otherwise, approved. Serpent  King 18:33, March 22, 2021 (EDT)

When will it start? Thegameandwatch The Nerd 16:49, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

8pm EST. About 2.5 hours from now. Serpent  King 17:24, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

Also how to post? Thegameandwatch The Nerd 20:10, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

April Fools submission

I have an April Fools submission I'd like to send for the "Dependent Universes" section of List of minor third-party universes. This will continue off a gag I did the previous year which was a joke about non-game franchises. I may add more to this once the day comes (if I even remember to add it), but here's a mock-up - it would be added alongside the existing dependent universes in alphabetical order.

• Sam and Friends is an early puppetry television show that aired locally in the Washington DC area between 1955 and 1961. Kermit the Frog debuted in this program.
• The Tracey Ullman Show is a variety sketch show aired on Fox between 1987 and 1990. The Simpson family made their debut in the animated segments of this series.
• Love, American Style is an anthology comedy series that aired between 1969 and 1974. The Fonz debuted in Love and the Television Set, a segment that aired on an episode of this program.
• Wallace & Gromit is an English claymation film series created by Nick Park. Shaun the Sheep made his debut in the third short film of the series, A Close Shave.
• The Intertidal Zone is an unreleased educational comic book illustrated by Stephen Hillenburg in 1984. It was the main inspiration for SpongeBob SquarePants and featured a character named Bob the Sponge, who would later evolve into SpongeBob.
• Linus the Lionhearted is an animated television series aired between 1964 and 1965 that was intended to sell cereal. Sugar Bear debuted in this series
• ITV Digital was a UK television provider between 1998 and 2002. Munkeh was originally created as a mascot for this service, but upon its closure was transfered over to PG Tips, which he represents in Smash.

--What could possibly go wrong? - BubzieBobkat (talk) 02:42, March 24, 2021 (EDT)

Personally this seems like a rather uninspired joke to me. Miles (talk) 12:23, March 24, 2021 (EDT)

April Fools edit

Because today is the end of Mario's 35th anniversary, and since there's a running joke that Dark Wizzy is Mario, I wanted to change the Dark Wizzy page to past tense. Not sure if this counts as low effort but I thought it was fitting. Also not my idea but a friend's: https://twitter.com/JimwinJim/status/1377346881227956228 Luigi86101 (talk) 16:10, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

Sure why not, just submit it here (pastebin or something like it) before doing it. Serpent  King 17:25, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

https://pastebin.com/YtuWLXnh Luigi86101 (talk) 18:04, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

You're good to go. 18:07, March 31, 2021 (EDT)

Mii Fighter costume images

It's been about a month and a half since you reverted the Mii Fighter costume page back to screenshots. There's been no push-back and I think the reason given makes sense (some variations weren't illustrated in the rips). Is this long enough to close the discussion? --CanvasK (talk) 08:11, June 3, 2021 (EDT)

The lack of pushback suggested to me that there wasn't an open discussion to close. Miles (talk) 11:10, June 3, 2021 (EDT)

Why is it unnecessary?

Hey, I just wondered. When I said that Chun-Li was meant to have an appearance in Super Smash Bros Ultimate, but came second to Ken, why was it not a necessary edit to the point it just added more bloat to that section in Unused content (SSBU)? 90.217.92.228 15:04, June 12, 2021 (EDT)

Lack of a reputable source. The article you linked admitted it was just a 5ch post, which is certainly not on the level of Sakurai's statements about Rex, Alucard, etc. Miles (talk) 15:38, June 12, 2021 (EDT)

Boss name sources

Per your edit on the Dracula page, the boss name sources are from "Dairantou Smash Brothers X: The Complete Guide" (大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズX ザ・コンプリートガイド) for Brawl's bosses and "Dairantou Smash Brothers SPECIAL Official Guide" (大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL　オフィシャルガイド) for Ultimate's. The former is published by Dengeki Nintendo, a Japanese Nintendo magazine, and the latter is published by Kadokawa, which is a major Japanese publisher. Both are officially licensed by Nintendo, similar to something Prima or Nintendo Power would have put out back when physical strategy guides were more of a thing over here.

I'm sourcing the name from Japanese wikis that cite said guides, so it's a secondary source as it's a bit expensive to buy the guides from Japan, but I've cross-referenced the names on over a dozen different websites to ensure that the names are real and accurate and from what I can tell, all the move names are used pretty universally across the Japanese internet (citing the guides each time) and I have no reason to believe they're fan-made. BubbleRevolution (talk) 19:45, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

I'm not realistically expecting you to purchase a Japanese guide. Rather, I just have my doubts about the "official" status of them. Personally, since the names in several cases don't match up with very well-established canon names from other sources, I find the listings to be at least somewhat dubious. If you want them re-instated, I suggest making a particular talk page post on the subject on one of the boss pages if you think I'm in a minority position on this. Miles (talk) 20:15, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

I do agree with your concern that some of them don't match up perfectly, but I'm assuming a lot of those are just descriptors used for one reason or another. However, for a lot of the move names (namely the bosses original to Smash) there are literally no other move name sources. The move names are in an officially licensed and published book from as far as I can tell, and I feel totally writing them off completely due to some more generic descriptors for certain attacks with established names is just throwing away information. BubbleRevolution (talk) 21:11, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

As I said, I'm quite hesitant here, but I can't really gauge if I'm being overcautious or not - hence my suggestion that you start a discussion to see if I am an outlier or not on the subject. Miles (talk) 21:21, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

So, it's been a few weeks and so far no one chimed in about the note I left on the talk page about boss names per this issue. What should I do now? BubbleRevolution (talk) 21:49, July 5, 2021 (EDT)

Feel free to bump the discussion by posting on the talk page, on the Discord, or both. Miles (talk) 22:10, July 5, 2021 (EDT)

Image restore

It appears a recently deleted image (ThegameandwatchUserboxIcon.png) is back in use. Seems the user commented out the page it was on, leading to it being "unused". Should it be restored if possible? --CanvasK (talk) 22:28, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

"Color" or "Colour"

I had brought up in the SSBU Alts page that were using the spelling "Colour" instead of "Color". When I pointed it out, it would have appeared the reasoning why it was change was because Smash used "grey" instead of "gray". Because it was already consistent the way it was before, someone reverted it back to the American spelling. Looking at Manual of Style, there seems to be no preference as long as it is consistent in the article. I ask this as I see a 62 other pages using "Colour" when searching the spelling on the Wiki. Do we just change it to whatever is used the most in the article if more than one spelling is currently used in it? Wolff (talk) 02:26, July 2, 2021 (EDT)

I believe CanvasK and the Manual of Style adequately answered this question for you already. Miles (talk) 02:29, July 2, 2021 (EDT)

Regarding this

Trying to avoid edit warring, but your edit is factually wrong. Literally on ZeldaWiki's Toon Link article: "Toon Link's... design is based on Link's more recent "cartoon" appearance starting with Four Swords and The Wind Waker". Further supported by the fact that in some regions, Four Swords was released before Wind Waker. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 20:20, July 19, 2021 (EDT)

Four Swords nominally came out first, but just barely (less than 2 weeks difference) and the art style was clearly developed for Wind Waker first with the Four Swords component being thrown onto the port of A Link to the Past after Wind Waker was well into development. It's evidently a "Wind Waker artstyle" that happened to get a tie-in that technically came out first, and that technicality doesn't really change that it wasn't originally created for Four Swords. Miles (talk) 20:29, July 19, 2021 (EDT)