User talk:Miles of SmashWiki

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Boss Tikis from DKCR

What I'm saying is, that the names of those guys were never given in any media pertaining to DKCR back then for some reason, at all. The legitimacy of DK Wiki is questionable to boot. ShadowMan2 (talk) 20:50, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Discord

You said in a recent edit summary that you have been "idling in the Discord for hours". Well then, who are you on there? If you are in the Discord, nobody, including the other admins, knows about it. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the Internets go! :3 18:31, 25 December 2017 (EST)

There, I've announced myself. Miles (talk) 18:44, 25 December 2017 (EST)

"There is no email address recorded for user"?

Hello. I'm the user Wrilliam, back after a 3-year absence. However, I forgot my password, and when I tried to reset it, the following message appears to me:

There is no email address recorded for user "Wrilliam".

AFAIK, the e-mail address is mandatory to create an account, so what's that supposed to mean? Was my account deactivated, deleted or the like? 189.45.84.65 15:00, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

I don't believe there's a requirement for an email address to make an account. It's possible you set one up without ever associating an email - in which case, there's not much of a way to restore your account access, so far as I'm aware. Miles (talk) 15:37, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

I see... well, I guess I'll just have to create a new account then, associating an email address this time (I'm still shocked about how I didn't do it). The old one should be deleted, right? 189.45.84.65 23:00, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

You can't exactly delete accounts; you can merge them, but they're not deleted, per se. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 23:01, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

If you can prove that your old account belongs to you, admins may be able to merge the accounts. Accounts cannot however be deleted in any way shape or form. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 23:02, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

Permission to make my user page

i want Permission please —Preceding unsigned comment added by Starfan13 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 8 September 2018

You'll need to be autoconfirmed for that. Miles (talk) 00:50, 9 September 2018 (EDT)

Language Tables

I left you a message on your language tables page about a month ago and wanted to know if you're still interested in this idea and how you would want to go about it. Frankly, with the wiki being at a red status until November and beyond, I can understand if the demand for it is low but I personally am interested in undertaking it. Nergal06 (talk) 23:40, 13 September 2018 (EDT)

Ah, I missed that. I do think it would be worth discussing again but it's a sweeping enough proposal with a lot of unresolved parts that it would need a) more work before it's ready to implement and b) probably a community consensus vote on Forum:General proposals or elsewhere. Miles (talk) 00:39, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

Trivia

What exactly do you mean by "extremely common knowledge"? I did not know the meaning behind the name Alucard until the first fourth of this year (2018). So before adding it to the trivia, I asked a few people if they knew what Alucard was backwards, just in case it was a "no, just me?" thing. Almost all of them had heard the name Alucard before, but not the fact that it was Dracula spelled backwards. I also noticed that Alucard's page on the Castlevania wiki and on Rachel Alucard's page on the Blaze Blue wiki both mention it in their trivia pages. Not only that, the Smash blog even refers to it by asking what you get when spelled backwards. Plus, not everyone is able to read backwards very well (Ekans, Arbok), usually it would't often come to mind. Also, one of the reasons why I added it in the first place is in the understanding that not everyone who plays Smash is necessarily familiar with Castlevania. Some people, despite having a love of the Zelda or Smash series, do not know that Sheik (or Tetra) are actually Zelda (even if they somehow skipped Melee and Brawl). I actually had a friend who did not know that Zelda and Sheik were the same person, despite having played Brawl and Subspace, until I pointed it out. Regardless of what was previously mentioned, if you still feel it is too obvious to be added, then I guess I leave it alone then. (sorry to have bother you) Wolff (talk) 15:44, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

The argument is "should Alucard be noted in trivia to be Dracula backwards"? In which case, absolutely, this is not extremely common knowledge. Serpent  King 15:55, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

A quick search on the internet leads me to this, a page on the character as he appears in the 1943 film Son of Dracula. The page notes how "Alucard" is "Dracula" backwards, which, if you ask me, would mean it either:

A. is extremely common knowledge because it was mentioned in the film,

B. is extremely common knowledge because Wikipedia mentioned it, or

C. is not common knowledge, and is listed for the same reasons people have attempted to list it here.

Aidan, the Spooky Rurouni 16:02, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

I had mentioned in my Summery that ""Alucard" being "Dracula" spelled backwards is not common knowledge (even among fans of Castlevania or BlazeBlue)", in hindsight, I should have said "not that common". "Miles of SmashWiki" said in his undo Summery, "this is extremely common knowledge and has been a known wordplay for 70+ years". I'd argue that just because that it has been used numerous times, does not mean it is as common knowledge one may think. Certain wordplay or ideas in literature may be common, but unless you've done research on said ideas you would not necessarily be able to identify it. Unless at some point in Castlevania or BlazeBlue they were to directly mention it, you wouldn't necessarily think about it (was it mentioned within that film?). This would also require for the player to have played the game(s) in which it was mentioned (or shown, like with Zelda/Sheik/Tetra). Wolff (talk) 16:24, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Chiming in to say I'd not heard it before as well. – Emmett 16:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Trivia is normally supposed to have something to do with Smash, right? This particular bit of trivia, while somewhat interesting, has nothing to do with Smash at all. If we're going to include it, it should probably be in the main part of the article. That's just my opinion. John HUAH! 16:26, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

It has to do with Smash in that it's about someone in Smash. Lots of trivia about characters in Smash can relate to their home game or references in their names and stuff. – Emmett 16:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Well both Castlevania's Dracula and Alucard are in Ultimate, so referring to it would be related to inside of the Smash universe. Plus the Smash blog post refers to it, but does not mention it directly. Wolff (talk) 16:30, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

I honestly had never heard anyone not know that before. I always got the impression that it was obvious upon seeing the name "Alucard" at all, but then again I'm somebody who has always liked anagrams and wordplay. Apparently this was less obvious to people than I thought. You can go ahead and re-add it if you'd like. Miles (talk) 18:32, 22 October 2018 (EDT)

Upcoming apperences

I updated your old page to make it relevant to SSBU. Did I do any good? (Add signature here)

Discussion

I would like to discuss a few things with you about the wiki, if you'd be willing to. Wolff (talk) 01:27, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

Can Clone's protection please be lifted?

I wanted to add Ken & a trivia fact, but I can't because of the protection. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:37, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

I've lowered it to autoconfirmed. Miles (talk) 16:38, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Ah, thanks a ton. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:40, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Light Arrow Origin

Hello, I'd just like to respond to this edit of yours.

I don't believe the mention of Tetra wielding the arrows in The Wind Waker is correct, because it is Zelda who wields the Light Arrows and not Tetra. Although they are the same person, Tetra is the disguise and not the true identity, and at the point in which the arrows are used, the disguise is not being used. Thus, it is Zelda who wields the arrows, and she is not acting as Tetra at that point.

I have brought this to discussion rather than simply removing the mention again, because that would violate policy and wouldn't meaningfully solve the dispute. Dr. HyperCake (talk) 03:43, 12 November 2018 (EST)

It depends on how you interpret the semantic difference between the character as Tetra versus the character as Zelda. My reading of it from how Wind Waker handled it was that her actual name is Tetra and that "Zelda", at that point, essentially an honorary title applied to her by the King Daphnes more than anything. I figured that, since we had a page on Tetra as a character, that referring to Wind Waker's Zelda as Tetra, her given name, was still appropriate and that it would be worth linking to. Miles (talk) 11:17, 12 November 2018 (EST)

Well, let's compare it to the Sheik scenario. Sheik is much more objectively a case of a disguise persona compared to Tetra, and so it would be reasonable to state something like "Zelda (as Sheik) did X". One could do a similar thing for Tetra: "Tetra (as Zelda) did X"; but because of the nature of Tetra, it becomes much more based on subjective interpretation as to which is the true identity, which is of course the source of this dispute. Tetra's relevance to the context of Zelda's use of Light Arrows in The Wind Waker only appears with the interpretation of Tetra as the true identity, whereas just stating "Zelda used the Light Arrows" is an accurate statement regardless of interpretation, much like stating that Sheik taught Link songs in Ocarina of Time.

I also argue that Zelda is as much the "true" identity in this case as Tetra, and so it is reasonable to omit any mention of Tetra. My interpretation is that they are each separate enough identity-wise that they can be viewed as separate characters of the same person; when one says "Tetra", it refers to the pirate, and when one says "Zelda" (or "Toon Zelda"), it refers to the princess. I suppose this is also comparable to Sheik in that sense.

I feel that if a reader wants to know more about Zelda in The Wind Waker (and thus her connection to Tetra), they may pursue the information easily elsewhere, but in the context, the mention is not relevant and is too subjective.

(Sorry for the wall of text. I've never been much good at making a point concisely.) Dr. HyperCake (talk) 16:02, 12 November 2018 (EST)

I agree that it ought to be Zelda. Zelda was the one actually using the light arrows in the final fight, not Tetra, which to me is the relevant distinction. – Emmett 16:14, 12 November 2018 (EST)

Vandalism

I’m just an IP, but User:Pagegriefer is vandalizing, as per his name. I undid his edits to you and BV’s userpages, but can’t report him on the admin notice board because it’s protected. So, I figured I’d just tell an admin. 72.133.91.93 13:59, 12 November 2018 (EST)Blueflame105

My use of images

Thanks for telling me about the fact that I'm using way too many images. I felt that way a bit earlier today too (which Is why some of my edits were specifically made to remove some images on the Waluigi page) and I apologize for getting to carried away. I'll try my best to only post images/gifs if they are necessary/help explain without posting too many, and to not fill the gallery with billions of Images. Pappy Parappy (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2018 (EST)

No problem. And again, I don't want to be excessively critical. There is something of a learning curve to figuring out when an image actually illustrates something new and important for the page versus when it's excessive, and it's also not a set-in-stone right or wrong kind of thing. So don't stress too much, either. Miles (talk) 01:27, 13 November 2018 (EST)

Yeah, I guess so. I'll just keep helping with what I can and let people inform me on what I am doing right/wrong, So I don't repeat mistakes. Pappy Parappy (talk) 01:36, 13 November 2018 (EST)

Spirit Pages

In regards to the notice for the consideration of deletion you added on Lapras' page, I suggest that we should hold off on making/deleting pages for characters that appear exclusively as "Spirits" (possibly until the game's release) until we find out if they have a purpose outside of a Spirit. Cappy has a page, but he also appears aesthetically in Mario's moveset. In Lapras' case, it is shown that it can appear in the overworld in "World of Light" showing it has second purpose. However it is currently unknown if it is among a small few Spirits capable of doing so. If quite a large amount of Spirits have shared effects in the overworld, then it should probably be stated in their "list of Sprits" pages instead of giving them individual pages. (Although, some characters have pages despite only appear as Trophies. Which were replaced by Spirits) Thoughts? Wolff (talk) 12:39, 15 November 2018 (EST)

The idea was to use the Lapras discussion to come to these kinds of conclusions. Miles (talk) 22:59, 15 November 2018 (EST)

I was asking about pages for Spirits in general and how we should go about making them before release. Because of that, I felt it did not fit the disscusion on Lapras' page. (And I saw that you were the one that added the consideration) Perhaps I'll add it to the Spirits (characters) discussion before the game's release if I remember. Wolff (talk) 23:28, 15 November 2018 (EST)

smash ultimate crowd cheers

when i was doing captain falcons classic mode i was at the mii brawlers then i did something good then the crowd started cheering falcon go! can we start the ssbu crowd cheers page

Hey

I see you’re active again, so can you update those sandboxes again? 174.55.24.64 23:10, 21 January 2019 (EST)

I'll get to it. They're on an "as I feel like dealing with them" basis. Miles (talk) 23:46, 21 January 2019 (EST)

Hey Miles

The Nabbit page needs work. 174.55.24.64 19:14, 27 January 2019 (EST)

Hey

Wanna make trophy-like descriptions for Piranha Plant in general, the SSBU Piranha Plant, and the Petey Piranha Final Smash? 174.55.24.64 02:51, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Look, IP, while I appreciate your enthusiasm to work with me, the way you're using my talk page is going overboard. If you want these things, put in the effort to make them yourself rather than repeatedly poking me to. I don't know whether you are aware that it's coming across as pushy, but... it is. Miles (talk) 12:06, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Miles

This is the last thing I’ll say to you but do you know any Piranha Plants that Viridi didn’t mention in the Palutena’s Guidence? 174.55.24.64 18:58, 30 January 2019 (EST)

About my recent edit on the template

I actually had only intended to change it to have 2 images so that I could get the image Corrin 2 image general.png to show up, then show it to he thread to judge. I apologize if you thought I was trying to permanently change that. Lou Cena (talk) 00:59, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Changing widely used templates like that, even for a short time, has cascading effects thought the wiki; if you want to test something, it’s better to try it in your user space so it doesn’t affect anything else. – Emmett 05:01, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Afyer attempting to gather info for a week or two, here’s what the current consensus is. Is it passed, failed, or unclear as of yet?

Support

Lou Cena (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · Cena WHOIS): The one who made the proposal in the first place. Is currently attempting to test a new version of said template change in the Sandbox. Has no idea how to actually create tabs. Lou Cena (talk) 18:20, 11 February 2019 (EST)

SugarCookie420 (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): The one who suggested using tabs in the first place. See his talk page for more. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

DryKirby64 (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS) DryKirby64 (talk) 20:17, 12 February 2019 (EST)

Neutral

Toomai (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): disagrees with having the two images in the infobox without tabs. Neutral about the tabs. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

Unclear

Miles of SmashWiki (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · of SmashWiki WHOIS): disagrees with having two images in the infobox without tabs. Stance on tabs is unknown, as said proposition was suggested after he had given his stance on the issue. See Template talk:Infobox Character general. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

Pokepub (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): agrees with the notion that we should have major alternate costumes listed. Disagreed with the currently proposed notion of what actually is a major alternate costume previously, but current agreement on what qualifies as a major alternae costume is unknown due to not having commented here since. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

AmoongussForLife (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS): agrees with the notion that major alternate costumes should be in the imagebox. Disagrees with the use of tabs. Could possibly be considered a supporter. REQUESTING SIGNATURE AND/OR CLARIFICATION

Serpent King (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · King WHOIS): talked about this on his talk page. Did not give an opinion

Lou Cena (talk) 18:53, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Alternate Smash Artwork

I have a question about a character's alternate Smash art. In their character pages, are characters suppose to have their alternate art (Advent Cloud, Male Inkling) in their Smash bios? (I'm not talking about their main bios) I ask because someone recently added them and I thought someone (an Admin) told me awhile back that they were supposed to be in the character's Gallery instead. Could you help clear my confusion? Wolff (talk) 02:00, 15 February 2019 (EST)

The person has also added them to characters like Wario, Little Mac, Bayonetta, and Isabelle. Are they really suppose to be there? It doesn't look right. Though, I could be mistaken. Wolff (talk) 04:30, 15 February 2019 (EST)

In my opinion those should be in galleries at most and absolutely not full thumbnails like that. Miles (talk) 15:45, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Would you please explain why? In my opinion it looks even worse when they are placed in galleries, as they end uo being mixed in with images of a different category (on general pages, it ends up being fighter artwork being mixed in with series-canon artowrk, and on fighter pages, it ends up being fighter artwork being mixed in with gameplay.) In fact, is there any explicit rule stating that they should be in the gallery? Lou Cena (talk) 17:25, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Should I take this to the general proposals thread? I already have another proposal going on, though, and I’m not sure if multiple simulteneous proposals per user are allowed. Lou Cena (talk) 17:38, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Very little is set in "explicit rules", but you're attempting to alter years of good precedent on a pretty flimsy basis. The point of keeping the spare images in the gallery is to avoid excessive whitespace and visual clutter. An edit like this stretches the page vertically with huge blank whitespace while also cluttering more images onto the sides of the text unnecessarily. Miles (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2019 (EST)

About the whitespace, that will easily be solved when we have more torunament results, thus eliminating whitespace for Ultimate’s. As you can see, there is next no whitespace at all for smash 4, due to tournament results being mentioned in that section but not Ultimate’s. Visually, it’s actually more clutter when they are placed in the galleries, because like I said before, they end up mixed in with either series-canon artwork or gameplay images; or they are needlessly separated from their game of origin. Additionally, if there were 3 images being added there, I could see what you mean by uneccessary. However, one image being added barely shifts the text at all. Lou Cena (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Do you really think this is "no whitespace at all"? Really? Miles (talk) 18:04, 15 February 2019 (EST)

I’m using a mobile phone on desktop mode, so it displayed differently for me. My bad. How about instead of being aorted through vertically, they get sorted through that horizontally? I see what you mean by stretching it out vertically now, but I stand by that the gallery is not the appropriate place for them. As I said before, it fits better when they’re actually placed in their game of origin instead of shoved aside to another section. Lou Cena (talk) 18:09, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Adding the image stacked horizontally would push text down in a different but equivalently-bad way. The whole point of galleries on a wiki is to display images that don't fit neatly into the body of the article otherwise but should still be included, and this is precisely such a case. It is honestly about as textbook of a case as possible of "when to use a gallery instead of putting the image in the body of an article". Miles (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2019 (EST)

I don’t think it’s fair to judge the horizontal image suggestion until it’s been done. Otherwise, I understand where you’re coming from, even if I don’t entirely agree. At tthe vwry least, the alternate costume images should be enlarged though. Lou Cena (talk) 18:46, 15 February 2019 (EST)

I've seen the double-wide thumbnails for two images placed horizontally like that before, and as I've already stated, it's quite disruptive. What size the images are in the gallery isn't something I have strong feelings about, so long as they aren't excessively large. Miles (talk) 23:34, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Hopefully this’ll be the last thing I’ll bring up, but why exactly would whitespace cause more clutter han disprganized images? As i stated before, I personally think that the images should be in with the game they were with for organizational issues (as the gallery displayes them with series-canon images, as in the case of Inkling and Isabelle), so i’m wondering why you’d think whitespace would be less organized. In fact, with characters like Ike, there would still be the issue of whitespace, due to there only being one image in that gallery. Lou Cena (talk) 16:01, 18 February 2019 (EST)

I brought this over to the general proposals if you want to debunk me further. I’m open to ehatever critisism you have, and even set up a section for debunks and arguments for both sides. Lou Cena (talk) 00:45, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Pages to improve

Could you add Meta Knight (SSBU) and R.O.B. (SSBU) to the list? They are the only 2 who don't have a complete moveset table. SugarCookie 420 15:59, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Non-Smash Wiki Links

I was curious why Little Mac, Shulk, and all the Third-Party characters (and their related media that have pages) currently don't have links to their respective Wikis like everyone else? I was trying to figure out how to link Cloud to the Final Fantasy Wiki instead of Wikipedia (like everyone/thing mentioned before is currently linked to). Is there a reason why they don't link to their wikis? I would have thought Shulk and Sonic would have, but they don't. Wolff (talk) 23:58, 18 February 2019 (EST)

General policy is to use interwiki links in infoboxes only when there's a NIWA wiki to link to, or else to Wikipedia, and only use links to Wikia wikis when no other wiki for the series is available - and even then, only to link them in an "External links" section at the bottom of the page. Miles (talk) 00:40, 20 February 2019 (EST)

If it is not currently apart of the NIWA, then it can only link to a Wikipedia page of it? But then what exactly do you mean by, "only use links to Wikia wikis when no other wiki for the series is available". Are those non-NIWA wikis not able to be link outside of the "External links". We couldn't add the external links where the wiki would have been like Mario's? (it's unfortunate we can't provide shortcut links to these other wikis in the same way that would provide the reader with more sufficient information)

Side note: Apparently there's talks that the Zelda Wiki may be removed from the NIWA wiki in the future. What would happen to all the Zelda links here if that were to pass? (I know that's probably not a pressing matter right now and will be dealt with when the time comes. I was just wondering if others here already knew about that) Wolff (talk) 16:25, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Not something to worry about. Zelda Wiki is simply contemplating their next move at the moment. Serpent  King 16:37, 20 February 2019 (EST)

So they can't link the same way as the NIWA wikis, and have to be in the external links (if it even has that section)? Wolff (talk) 03:45, 21 February 2019 (EST)

Spirits on Fighter Pages

All fighters have Spirits on both their fighter and main character pages. I was wondering how they should look? Link Peach's, like Pikachu's, or like Link's? I don't think it should be like Link's as the actual tables are slowly being added. I"m just curious if all the info of the Spirits is necessary on the pages of playable characters. Wolff (talk) 00:29, 19 February 2019 (EST)

To be honest, all of those are pretty cluttered, but the Link one probably the least so. Miles (talk) 00:40, 20 February 2019 (EST)

So fighter pages and the fighters' main pages should have it as a gallery (like Link's is currently) instead of a Spirit Table? I feel that breaks consistency with the Spirits on other pages. I know it seems cluttered (especially Peach's), but I feel the only information that really should be listed on the fighter's main pages should be just the Number, Image, Type, and Art Origin. (Type could be removed as well) I'll change Peach's and Pikachu's back to galleries if you think a gallery is actually more sufficient than using tables like the others. Wolff (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2019 (EST)

No.	Image	Name	Type	Origin Game
5		Peach	Fighter Spirit	Super Mario Bros. (Artwork: New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
27	File:Baby Peach Spirit.png	Baby Peach	Support	Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Artwork: Mario Super Sluggers)

Wolff (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Frankly, I think any listing of the spirits is going to be very bloated for some characters. After thinking it over, I'd recommend either using the gallery layout or, if using a tabular layout, having it in a show/hide box that's hidden by default so as not to stretch the page vertically too much. Miles (talk) 19:23, 20 February 2019 (EST)

By "tabular layout", do you mean one like the character roster? Regardless, I don't think I know how to do that. Wolff (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2019 (EST)

On another note, should the "main Link" have all Link related Spirits? I ask as he currently does, while Young Link and Toon Link only have the ones that relate to them specifically. (It would only be removing 7 out of the 18 Spirits that he currently has on his page[s]) Wolff (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2019 (EST)

By "tabular" I just meant in a table, like what you posted for Peach; if done that way, I'd advise using a show/hide box like on Music (SSBU) (I still think the gallery format is a smidge less obtrusive, but eh). I also think the Link list should probably cover only those Links not explicitly considered Young Link or Toon Link, but that's pretty subjective. Miles (talk) 22:12, 20 February 2019 (EST)

What about on a fighter's Ultimate page? Should that be the exception? I tried copy pasting Peach's table to her fighter page, but I wasn't sure if it fit there. Trophies tend to be an exception on fighter pages being separate from their descriptions. I'm not entirely sure which to use on the main pages now.

A lot of characters' Ultimate section seem empty. With a few exceptions, a lot just say along the lines of, "returns as a playable character and not as a starting character". The "Gallery" may work, but I feel more information is needed in their Ultimate section for that to work. I know most characters' Melee sections are mainly filled by the trophies' descriptions, but Spirits don't have descriptions.

I know the Universe pages then to just list them like the trophies, but I don't know if that would really work on character pages. Perhaps I am over thinking this. Wolff (talk) 02:23, 21 February 2019 (EST)

I set up a certain system: make it a gallery format, bold the fighter spirits, and italicize the fighter spirits obtained from classic. Hopefully that should work. Look on Link’s Ultimate section.

And about the empty character sections, I was planning on adding in the likes of female corrin and advent cloud into those, but that’s currently being debated on if that should even happen. While here would be whitespace, at the very least it could be organized and not completely empty. I don’t know if that’s the best suggestion though, as you’re the one who removed them in the first place. If there’s something else we can do, I guess we can wait for more tournament results.Lou Cena (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2019 (EST)

Using the alternate art isn't really necessary, as using the main art is sufficient. Regardless, the Spirits have the same problem, if not less so, by creating white space as it is a "Gallery". With this, the white space is not caused by the Spirit gallery/table, it is caused by a lack of information of the section before the Spirit gallery. Notable players and tournament results go on the character's respective fighter pages, not their main page, of which I'm talking about. Despite that, there should be more information about the characters in Ultimate other than "they return" or "they used to be an assist". However, I do understand that many may not have enough info to fill it out. The main difference I see between the trophies and Spirits is the Spirits don't have descriptions to fill it out. The size of the table is determined by the text in it. That's why it's not that stretched out on Pichu's page, but it kind of is on Peach's.

Now that I'm thinking about it again, we did not seem to have a problem with the Stickers doing it. Then again, sticker sections are kind of more horizontal than vertical. I mainly ask how we go about on the main character pages as many are adding the Spirit Tables on the wiki (plus a second one if it grants it. Fairy Bottle + All that give the user a Fairy Bottle) and will eventually do it to the fighter and main pages. Peach was the first. I had done Pikachu as an experiment do its small amount. (I feel it works on the non-fighter pages)

Let me rephrase my question: Should the fighter pages, and their main pages, be the exception and have their Spirits as a gallery instead some kind of a table? Wolff (talk) 03:43, 21 February 2019 (EST)

In my opinion the preferred layout is to have the gallery on the character general page (and add a write-up about tourney stuff and general changes rather than leaving the section's body text too short), and not to list the spirits on the Character (SSBU) page at all because they're already on two other pages at that point (the character general page and the series spirit lists). Miles (talk) 23:33, 21 February 2019 (EST)

To me, the Spirits look find on the (SSBU) fighter pages when shown as a gallery. But I guess removing them from their (SSBU) fighter pages could work as we don't include the stickers on any (SSBB) fighter page. Most likely because they too do not have descriptions. However, tourney related information is only ever noted in their fighter pages, not their main page. But I agree that more general information is needed in their (SSBU) sections. I wonder if it would be possible to create a table like the sticker table to be used for the Spirits. Honestly, removing the pictures does makes it seem like the stickers. However, I do prefer how it is done with the stickers. Wolff (talk) 01:23, 22 February 2019 (EST)

Another thing I'm curious about is the Spirits of the non-fighter pages. How would we go about them? For example: should item Spirits include the ones that grant the item, or just of itself? Wolff (talk) 01:23, 22 February 2019 (EST)

The non-fighter pages are actually completely fine. I’m still a little iffy on removing the spirits from the ____ (SSBU) pages

We should leave only the Fighter spirits on the SSBU pages; this follows the precedent set by trophies in Smash 4. As for galleries vs. table, I feel that we should do something similar to how the stickers are listed: a small table with the gallery below. AmoongussForLife Talk 21:02, 23 February 2019 (EST)

What do you mean by "the precedent set by trophies in Smash 4"? All the Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 fighter pages include the character's trophies. The Brawl ones however don't include the stickers, only the trophies. I say it would make more sense to remove the Spirits from the Ultimate pages as they don't have descriptions, similar to the stickers. The fighter's main pages include both trophies and sticker so it would make sense that it would include Spirits as well.

And yes, I agree (like I mentioned earlier) that we should do something similar (if not the same) as the stickers from Brawl for all the Spirits from Ultimate. Wolff (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2019 (EST)

[Example] Rank and Ability could be added

No.	Name	Type	Origin Game
5	Peach	Fighter Spirit	Super Mario Bros. (Artwork: New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
27	Baby Peach	Support	Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Artwork: Mario Super Sluggers)

• 

  5. Peach

• Baby Peach Spirit.png

  27. Baby Peach

[Example] Wolff (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2019 (EST)

Should I clear the spam on your talk page?

I noticed that some IP spammed 5 sections on your page some time ago. Is it fine if I remove it, or is removing talk page content against the rules, regardless of spam or vandalism. If I have permission, I will delete this section as well. Lou Cena (talk) 00:44, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Just leave it, if Miles didn't remove it for vandalism then there isn't a reason to remove it. SugarCookie 420 17:53, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Hey

In your spirits sandbox, you forgot Adeline and Porky!!! Adeline should’ve been a spirit battle with with the Vince and Nikki Assist trophies because they remind me of Adeline too! Inkling could be Adeline and Jigglypuff could be Ribbon. Porky could be Wario as Porky and Bowser Jr.’s Clown Car as the machine. Also, you forgot Ness as SANS UNDERTALE (Original joke, amirite?). 174.55.24.64 01:46, April 26, 2019 (EDT)

3 Spirit Battle Requests

Hector (Gyromite): Dr. Mario with ROB in Mario Bros. with Gyromite music playing.

Penguin (Mario 64): Little King Dedede with giant Dedede coming later on Summit with Mario 64 music playing.

Timber the Tiger (Diddy Kong Racing): Incineroar with Diddy Kong with Mario Kart items in Mario Circuit Wii U with DKC music playing. 174.55.24.64 00:33, May 7, 2019 (EDT)

Spirit vs Infobox

Shouldn't the images used in the infoboxes be a different file than what is used for their Spirits? Someone can "Upload a new version of this file", but what if someone tries to do it with the image of the infobox without knowing it that it is also used for the Spirits? I know it is more common to upload a separate file, but that is why I keep putting in the summery along the lines of "to differ from Spirit". Like if someone were to update it the picture so it matches the character's recent or more accurate appearance? The stickers are different files. Yes they have a white outline, but still. I know its fine because the Spirit render is of higher quality, but it'd be nice to avoid things like this file's history. I know that was an AFD joke, but its still the same situation. What if someone was not aware of AFD were to replace the image with a duplicate? I usually try to find a different render to make the difference of the files and their usage more obvious. I know this wouldn't be the first, or last, time a file would have to be reuploaded because of this. I think it is necessary in order to avoid that. Is it really that bad of thing to make the files differ for those reasons? If so, please explain in detail so that I may properly understand the reasons. Wolff (talk) 15:37, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

1) Spirit images should never be adjusted, as they're in-game file data and should by all accounts be included on a page like SmashWiki:Protected image list/Extracted files. 2) Infobox art should be changed sparingly at most. Unless a new game non-negligibly alters a character design AND said alteration is Smash-relevant, we can leave art as-is for years without issue. There's no urgency to using "newer" art in 99% of cases. Miles (talk) 15:42, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

If the Spirit images should not be adjusted, shoudln't their pages be protected from editing? Same for stickers?

And I didn't necessarily mean a newer/difering image, that's just to make the diffrince more obvious. I'm more concern about the infobox image being a different file from the Spirit image. Even if the images used were to match, shouldn't they be separate files? Wolff (talk) 16:06, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

Yes, sticker/spirit images should be protected. That was my point. I may discuss doing so with the other admins. As per your other point, if the spirit image is appropriate to use as the infobox image, for what reason would they need to be separate files? Miles (talk) 16:14, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

To avoid it being edited. But I guess it would not be a problem, aside from possible image redundancy, if the Spirits were protected. Using different images can also help the page from looking repetitive with the same image multiple times on the page. But my main concern was about editing the infobox image effecting the Spirit image. Wolff (talk) 16:33, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I do have to agree with the idea that, while the image can remain the same (for example, Alucard's art from SotN is better for the infobox than his portrait), having a separate file would not be a bad idea, to prevent someone from uploading a higher quality version of said image over the Spirit's file, should they be the same. With that said, if we truly want consistency in that idea, then all of these (barring the few characters that don't have a page on the wiki) would need to be changed. Aidan, the Rurouni 16:42, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

You mean the files' names, correct? Or do you mean adding duplicates? Wolff (talk) 16:47, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

(resent indent) While I understand the point about redundancy to an extent, certain pieces of official artwork are extremely iconic for a character and it would be a disservice to insist on using some less-prominent alternative just because Smash also used the same iconic art. Similarly, some characters have few pieces of official artwork and there's not really an alternative to use anyways. On top of all of that, spirit images are generally displayed at a relatively small size. So I think, in general, we should assume that sticker/spirit images, by nature of being pre-existing renders, may be slightly redundant, but that for various reasons that redundancy shouldn't be taken as a reason to change anything to do with the rest of the page. I hope that makes sense.
Edit conflict: I vehemently disagree with Aidan about adding duplicate files. If the spirit render is usable for multiple purposes, that's fine. It should be protected from re-upload regardless. Miles (talk) 16:49, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I just meant if they had any alternate art available. If they don't have any alternative art that would work, then they don't. But yes, the Spirit imiges (and stickers) should be protected. But afterwards, that does beg the question about the pages that still use duplicates (if there are still any) if they should be left alone. Wolff (talk) 16:57, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

It's not a high priority to replace duplicate uploads, but there's no benefit to using them either. Miles (talk) 17:11, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

(Meant to put this up earlier, but had internet issues) On second thought, after looking it over, a lot of spirit files aren't as low quality as I thought they would be, so having the infobox and spirit images being one and the same might not be a terrible idea. However, I still would argue that, if there is a game that comes out with better artwork of a character (i.e., let's say P5R has better renders of the Phantom Thieves), then we would have separate files. Aidan, the Rurouni 17:24, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

As I mentioned, I think infobox images should be changed sparingly; that said, when it may be appropriate to do so, it should be on a case-by-case basis. In such a case where consensus decides to replace infobox usage of a spirit image with a different piece of art, then the separate piece of art should be uploaded separately and the spirit image would remain untouched. Miles (talk) 17:27, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I would say only of it comes out with different art that would work. Mario currently still uses his art from Odyssey as he has Cappy in a taught. Unless a future Mario game had both, that one is probably not going to be changed any time soon. It mainly depends if its not simply to update to the most recent appearance or the quality. Wolff (talk) 17:50, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

Yiga symbol

Why did the Yiga symbol count as "bloat"? Could it not have been added to the Yiga's gallery instead? Wolff (talk) 15:38, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

What, that is relevant to Smash, does it illustrate that is not already illustrated by the images on the page? Miles (talk) 15:42, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

I was thinking along the lines that some non-Zelda fans may not know of the fact that the Yiga symbol it is the symbol of the Sheikah upside down. Either that they did not know, or framilar with, BotW, the Yiga, the Sheikah, or the Zelda serires. Wolff (talk) 16:06, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

That's what interwiki links are for. It's not especially important to depict on a wiki about Smash. Miles (talk) 16:14, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

Hi

Just letting you know that I believe you to be the worst admin on the site. If you were applying today you would never pass an RfA and if you care about the integrity of this wiki you should resign.

- The Scribbler

172.98.87.146 17:20, May 30, 2019 (EDT)

A spirit battle request

Navi from Ocarina of Time: Blue Kirby that spams taunts with Young Link on Hyrule Castle while Ocarina of Time Medley plays. 174.55.24.64 10:59, June 9, 2019 (EDT)

Hey Miles

Why haven’t you updated your Upcoming appearances sandbox since over a year until today? Have you liked our edits along the way? It’s great that you’re back to editing! 174.55.24.64 19:40, July 23, 2019 (EDT)

I've simply not been focused on wiki editing much as of late, other than when there's been news; I was feeling rather burned-out on regularly checking the wiki. I'm glad the page has been of use. Miles (talk) 21:53, July 23, 2019 (EDT)

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how have long you've been on SmashWiki? Juju1995 (talk) 01:34, July 24, 2019 (EDT)

I'm not 100% sure what you meant, since it looks like you might've missed a word there. If you were asking how long I've been on the wiki, I made my first edit in May 2008. If you were asking how I've been doing in regard to the wiki, I was just feeling somewhat burned-out and needed a bit of a break before returning to being more active. Miles (talk) 01:43, July 24, 2019 (EDT)

Sandbox

You used to have all SSB4 characters by trophies along with Assist Trophies, Legendary Pokémon, and items, and a deleted sandbox with all Mario Maker costumes (not in Mario Maker 2) by trophy along with SSB4 characters’s original artwork. You could bring these back but with spirits. 174.201.0.145 18:25, July 31, 2019 (EDT)

I don't plan to. Sorry. Miles (talk) 19:28, July 31, 2019 (EDT)

Quick question

I'm currently in a debate with an IP on my talk page about whether your sandbox should contain stickers in it. The IP cited this edit to its talk page, but then you didn't seem to mind when DigitalHazard added the stickers in. Should they be there or not? Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer Leave a message if needed 01:10, August 4, 2019 (EDT)

I didn't catch it because I was focused on one section. I'm going to simply put it this way: that page is not up for public editing whatsoever. Please, neither of you touch it from now on. Miles (talk) 11:29, August 4, 2019 (EDT)

Miles

Update your upcoming appearances sandbox. 174.55.24.64 23:09, September 4, 2019 (EDT)

Shovel Knight page artwork

Hello there! I have noticed that you have reverted my edit of updating Shovel Knight's main art to his artwork used in Shovel Knight Dig. Why? Shouldn't we use his more recent appearance for his artwork? Shinobi76 (talk) 17:49, September 5, 2019 (EDT) Shinobi76 (talk) 17:49, September 5, 2019 (EDT)

"More recent" artwork is very rarely worthwhile unless the character's Smash design has changed and we need to use different art to match. I'd especially discourage updating it in the case of spinoffs or side-games with differing art styles. Miles (talk) 17:51, September 5, 2019 (EDT)

This

You seem to have misunderstood the point of the edit. I'm aware that it's technically correct to use they in that context, but it doesn't look right, nor does it read well. In these cases it's always better to avoid using pronouns at all where possible. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 19:14, September 9, 2019 (EDT)

If I may, that's an incredibly subjective point of view, and I think Miles is in the right here. It isn't "technically" correct, it's literally the proper way to refer to them. Removing pronouns just to avoid the singular they is even clumsier, in my opinion. (Not to mention, we use singular they multiple times on pages like Robin, Corrin, and so on.) ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 19:20, September 9, 2019 (EDT)

In addition to the above, it's also not setting a good precedent to intentionally sidestep someone's chosen pronouns. Miles (talk) 19:22, September 9, 2019 (EDT)

Daemon x Machina

How do you know so I can tell Turtles about this? 174.55.24.64 21:43, September 24, 2019 (EDT)

For future reference, Spirit Board events are usually announced first on the official Japanese Twitter account for Smash. Miles (talk) 02:39, September 25, 2019 (EDT)

Elements in the Nav List

You said that this is not how it's done. What's the criteria then?

From what I can see, stuff like the Power Pellets or the Clay Pigeons are not different from F.L.U.D.D., the Peanut Popgun, The Hookshot or any other personal character item that has gameplay effect. Except the trophies at least give them an official name. 177.180.239.169 20:31, January 16, 2020 (EST)