Talk:Project M

This was also the name of the joint project between Nintendo, Team Ninja and D-Rockets to make Other M. Is that notable? --RoyboyX Talk 08:05, 28 November 2011 (EST)

I would say no, unless you can find proof the name of Project M was based off of that (which I find to be extremely unlikely). Omega Tyrant 12:11, 28 November 2011 (EST)

Fighters

Can we get the list of the playable characters? King KirbyD 23:34, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

Here. Mousehunter321 (talk · contributions) 23:37, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

Updating the Article

Should we add pages for the Characters like with 64, Melee and Brawl?Nocturnal Dragon (talk) 23:53, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

No. We only have character pages for the actual games. Toomai Glittershine The Sharp 23:55, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Listing character changes on this article is fine though. Omega Tyrant 23:56, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Since there is a growing competitive scene for PM, I think it's safe to assume the character changes in the current demo will remain relatively static. You guys think it would be fine to update the character changes especially to ones with major revisions such as Charizard and Ike.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 23:37, 28 August 2012 (EDT)

Finally finished the character changelist, what do you think?

Oh and before anyone asks, I did not include Ivysaur because he/she (the Project M character page states that Ivysaur is a girl, but I think its a boy) is not added yet. (GamerGuy09 (talk) 22:38, 21 October 2012 (EDT))

It's great, but ask Omega Tyrant if he is busy. If he isn't, then request a rewrite. ShupaRoeh 23:01, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

Can you explain why Omega Tyrant should be consulted here? Mr. Anontalk 23:02, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

He came in my mind when I requested a rewrite. ShupaRoeh 23:05, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

2.5 Came Out

So I guess we should get ready for some changes and make a section for the new characters. Also, i'm thinking about adding a Stages page. GamerGuy09 (talk) 01:11, 31 December 2012 (EST)

Yup 2.5 is out and it is amazing. I'm making a list of all the changes I've noticed so far. For now we should add the new physics improvements made (like button delay removal and knockback stacking) as well as the aesthetic changes like new menus and stock control stuff. --Brian^{Don't try me!} 02:54, 31 December 2012 (EST)

2.6 Came Out

There's a lot of updating that needs to happen. I'd be willing to provide screenshot GIFs (like the one I did for Sonic), but I am not 100% familiar with all of the changes. Here's the Project: M 2.6 Cahnges subreddit post for reference. davidvkimball 20:58, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

An official change log will be released in about 2 weeks. I'll update the page accordingly.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 11:35, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

Awesome. :) davidvkimball 18:40, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

New Characters in PM?

Well, I was just minding my own business looking up Project M on YouTube. All of a sudden, I see a leak of what is supposedly Lyn and Knuckles fighting each other (being controlled by two people in the video). While it doesn't seem legitimate, half-way it shows that these two characters, along with Isaac, have their own character slots (I presume they were cloned from characters already in the roster). Interestingly, Knuckles and Lyn have their own voices and moveset, and they do not replace Sonic or Marth whatsoever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxbgK__kUR4 (The original link was taken down, but another YouTube user re-uploaded it for viewers to see.)

Also, a poll (which is now closed) took place involving adding new characters in PM via cloning; of note is that both Lyn and Knuckles are two of those characters. (http://smashboards.com/threads/new-characters-for-project-m-discussion-thread-voting-closed.341479/)

Do you think that it is possible that PMBR could be adding more characters, rather than making the game more like Melee? Hylia's Eye (talk) 16:08, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to be asking that question, but I feel that the leak is totally legitimate. The characters have completely unique movesets that seem very well done. Also, notice that they are using the debug mode feature. That video was posted three days after debug mode was released. Do you think that they could make such well done models and movesets in just three days? Just my thoughts. John (talk) 16:44, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

- I'm curious, too! Knuckles sounds exactly like he does in his series (former voice: Dan Green); Lyn, however, has a different voice actress from her assist trophy role (ast. trophy voice: Lani Minella). Aside from cloned animations (Lyn using Pit's entrance, Zelda's double jump, and original samurai sword attacks; Knuckles using moves inspired by other PSAs for Knuckles), these moves are completely original and incredible!

- As for models, I think that they're models used from vBrawl but with extras bones and edited textures. (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Moderated=All&Reported=All&Wifi=0&Featured=All&Name=lyn&ByUser=&Credit=&Info=&AudioSource=&MainType=Character&SubtypeSearch=and&Target=Marth) Notice how Lyn has bones for her hair and skirt. It's similar to Roy and Mewtwo, over Marth and Lucario (Roy is a smaller version of Marth, and Mewtwo is just Lucario with extra tail and finger bones), but the hacks don't even compare to the Lyndis in PM!

Hope Project M makes an official announcement! :D Hylia's Eye (talk) 17:03, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

Do those tags still need to be there?

I believe that the Project: M page is one of the best pages in ssbwiki. It shows a lot of changes and information about the mod itself. GamerGuy09 (talk) 21:04, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

A permanent hack?

After installing Project M, is it possible to return to the original Brawl?? I would like to enjoy PM's competitiveness and all, but I don't want to lose Brawl at all. PM seems to lack some things. Crazymasterhand98 17:02, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

Don't worry, just turn it off and on and it returns to brawl. You have to go to Stage Builder each time to turn on Project: M. GamerGuy09 (talk) 17:03, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

OK then. Crazymasterhand98 17:34, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

Two Things

1. Are you sure this is a hack. Call it what you want but this is a mod. I'm not sure if a hack is the same thing as a mod because I've been surfing the web and I'm pretty sure they're not the same thing. But whatever, you guys can figure that out.

2. Is there a page where there's instructions on how to install this? If there's not, than can I put them on? FireMario1534 (talk) 00:04, 14 November 2013 (EST)

1. Hack/Mod is a similar term. So it really doesn't matter.

2. There are instructions on the Project: M website. GamerGuy09 (talk) 00:06, 14 November 2013 (EST)

Okay thanks. But I'll still add instructions here anyway. FireMario1534 (talk) 00:20, 14 November 2013 (EST)

Changes lists

I guess we can move the changes lists on this page to the character-specific articles, right? Scr7(talk · contribs) 14:02, 20 November 2013 (EST)

They can probably be converted into short paragraphs once they have mains to link to. Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 14:08, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Should the nerf/buff/change templates be used or not? Scr7(talk · contribs) 14:39, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Wait, did the admins allow Project: M versions of characters have their own pages? GamerGuy09 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Yes, the debate passed. Scr7(talk · contribs) 15:33, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Uh Guys....

Does this article REALLY need to be here? Smashballz (talk) 17:40, 22 November 2013 (EST)

And why should it not? Project M is popular enough in the competitive community that it is on an equal standing with the three actual games in the series, which was established after a whole month of discussion. The mod needs a hub page regardless of how many pages the Wiki is making about Project M so that information and links can be found on a single page. MegaTron1XD 18:57, 22 November 2013 (EST)

Demo 1.0 Image

I dont know how to upload images and im very confused and im trying to upload the Demo 1.0 Image http://projectmgame.com/en/news/announcing-the-project-m-demo --Dinoboy411 (talk) 13:12, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Use the upload image button in the toolbar on the left of the screen. Also link to external sites in square brackets like this: [http://www.link.com/]. Scr7(talk · contribs) 13:18, 1 December 2013 (EST)

Put Project: M in Navigation?

It would just be easier to get to and from it. GamerGuy09 (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2013 (EST)

Downloading Instructions

I know the way you download PM hasnt changed much but I think we should have a more up to date Video. NinBuzz has one! --Dinoboy411 (talk) 19:23, 9 December 2013 (EST)

Remove change lists

Since we have the character pages, we should remove the individual character change sections and instead just have a list of characters with links to the pages, yes? Ryxis (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2013 (EST)

Yeah, there's not much point to keep them on this page. Scr7(talk · contribs) 14:46, 10 December 2013 (EST)

Aight. Working on that now. Making one of those fancy tables. Ryxis (talk) 15:34, 10 December 2013 (EST)

It has been done. If anyone thinks that the character changes should stay on the PM page, feel free to revert/discuss. Ryxis (talk) 15:55, 10 December 2013 (EST)

What's with these custom CSPs?

Am I missing a place where there's discussion about it? I don't care about 'distancing P:M from Brawl', we shouldn't be using some custom CSPs that SJS (as talented as is!) made. Project M's website uses vBrawl-based artwork and its own for Mewtwo and Roy. I really think we should revert back. — Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon (talk) 17:09, 12 January 2014 (EST)

Project M's character pages on the website haven't been updated since a long time (and I think they're not going to). You can still see how Lucas's page mentions non-existent back and down aerials, how Snake's doesn't mention anything about his Tranquilizer Gun, and so on. The current version of PM uses CSPs, so they should be kept like that. Crazymasterhand98 10:09, 28 January 2014 (EST)

I have 3.02 and I see no evidence of these custom CSPs (aside from edited/new costumes). Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 10:53, 28 January 2014 (EST)

So why are we using them? I get that SmashWiki isn't official, but this is ridiculous. Why . . ? I am extremely opposed to this change (and I still haven't found any discussion about it, just a ton of upload logs) and I'd really consider it better if reverted. — Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon (talk) 15:06, 1 February 2014 (EST)

Yeah I do agree with that, even if someone finds evidence that they were used at some point, because they don't seem to be now. Toomai Glittershine The Victorious 17:16, 1 February 2014 (EST)

I have been playing PM since demo 2.5. They were never used as far as I know. The pictures come from a custom pack made by someone named SJS. Dragon5 (talk) 17:49, 1 February 2014 (EST)

So i'm guessing we should change it back to brawl photos right? --TheLegendaryKRB (talk) 17:56, 1 February 2014 (EST)

Yeah I'm not completely sure why we're using these in the first place? They're not in the game. We should switch back to Brawl's pictures, but that brings up the issue of the Palette Swap sections and what to do with those. Ryxis (talk) 09:55, 4 February 2014 (EST)

Wait, Toom, what did you think I was talking about when I brought up this same issue a while back? MarioGalaxy_^Talk 11:45, 4 February 2014 (EST)

You'll have to point to where that was, I don't know what you're talking about.

In terms of palette swap sections: I see no reason to have them if they're unchanged from Brawl. If any costume at all has been added or changed, then it makes sense, but otherwise not really. Toomai Glittershine The Yoshi 13:01, 4 February 2014 (EST)

I decided to extract all the altered CSPs from Project M and upload them here. Seeing how we're kinda leaning towards getting rid of the old ones... Hope it helps Dragon5 (talk) 18:29, 4 February 2014 (EST)

I mean that is helpful, but a completely consistent table would be great. None of those have the bluish background and all of the vBrawl pics on here do. In addition, the Roy/Mewtwo pics with the background are the wrong color, and we don't have any for the Pokemon Trainer pokemon, so I really don't know. I'd say no background, but we don't have all of those. Ryxis (talk) 23:36, 15 February 2014 (EST)

Clustered changes section

As most of PM's stuff consists almost entirely of Melee things (except that characters use their Brawl designs and aesthetics), including minor details such as the smash charge formula and the grab physics, shouldn't we list instead how much has PM changed from Melee?? Just mentioning techniques from Brawl available in it (such as footstool jumping and DACUS) and how they have changed, or how has other stuff from Melee changed (such as the meteor cancel window), which would be simpler than listing almost everything existing in Melee. Crazymasterhand98 10:02, 28 January 2014 (EST)

PM is a mod of Brawl. Any change lists should be using Brawl as the base. Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 10:53, 28 January 2014 (EST)

It honestly makes no sense to tell the viewer that you can see the unmodded character, but reflects on the game it was based on instead of what it actually came from. We can simply say what has been brought from Melee and 64 to this game instead. My prime example why Brawl should be used instead is that Yoshi's Egg Throw boost was removed. It is a very notable change because it completely changes part of his playstyle for players. In my opinion, fighting games always state changes from the previous game (Brawl in this case) because it is a direct comparison. To only address the differences from Melee to Project M leaves the changes kept from Melee to Brawl unaccounted for, thus we have a gap in knowledge that can only be filled in by context rather than content. Dragon5 (talk) 19:09, 28 January 2014 (EST)

Actually, Dragon5, that would cause the individual character pages to become as clustered as this one. (Yes, many of them still are stubs, but that's primarly because of missing moveset data, and I can't contribute a single thing there for now due to my Wii disc reader's fault, seeing how hard I contributed on Charizard's article.) Project M is different from other Smash mods in that it tries to appeal more for Melee players, as both Melee and Brawl have a completely different gameplay, so the basis for changes in PM should be Melee. Furthermore, many characters such as Jigg, C. Falcon, Fox and Sheik, performed well in Melee but are inferior or absolute garbage in Brawl, so listing changes from Brawl would be inconsistent. Changes from Brawl should be listed only for characters that were superior there than in Melee, such as Kirby, Zelda and Bowser. Yoshi and Ness did better in Brawl, but I think they should have changes listed from Melee instead because of their major DJC techniques, so if you want to list that Egg Throw change, you can consider doing so on that move's description. Crazymasterhand98 21:38, 28 January 2014 (EST)

Brawl is the base. Everything that PM does changes Brawl. Therefore the very concept of a "change list" implies "things that the devs changed about Brawl". That's my opinion. Toomai Glittershine The Researcher 22:18, 28 January 2014 (EST)

Okay, I'm decided. PM's main page will still be listing pages from Brawl, since technically its engine derivates from Brawl as you say, and instead I'll now reorder the changes in this article under "Melee-based" (everything restored from there) and "Brawl-based" (Brawl-exclusive things in PM that were changed). Though for character pages, it's better to retain them as I said above. Crazymasterhand98 22:33, 28 January 2014 (EST)

Tier List?

Is there going to be a Tier List for Project M, like the rest of the Smash games? Smashdude10 (talk) 22:22, 19 February 2014 (EST)

Nothing will be definite until the game is completely finished. There might be a few unofficial lists put onto the forums though. The metagame is still developing and changes with each major update. Either way, the PMBR aims to eliminate tier rankings for the most part. Dragon5 (talk) 20:23, 27 February 2014 (EST)

Since their is now a PM Tier list should place it on this page or the tier list page? --TheLegendaryKRB (talk) 16:12, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

This page. Miles (talk) 16:36, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

I'll be doing this shortly, I may need to modify some of the relevant templates for things to work. Toomai Glittershine The Breegull 17:40, 26 March 2014 (EDT)

I've been informed by a PM dev that this tier list, even with a "preliminary" disclaimer, is "in no way official and should not be used". The given reason is that it was produced by a very narrow part of the playerbase, specifically Tristate CLASH players, some of which are not even high-level PM players. I think we might want to put it away until it has official backing. Toomai Glittershine The Quintonic 15:26, 27 March 2014 (EDT)

I also agree that it should be removed. The list on this page is completely unofficial and made by a very small portion of overall players. It's not even close to agreed upon by the majority of P:M players - for example, while Zelda is listed as #3 on the CLASH tier list, she's generally considered mid-low tier by the Smashboards P:M competitive boards. I request the list be removed from the page until an official list is released, or at least one compiled by more than what amounted to probably less than 1% of the competitive P:M fanbase. 108.226.12.59 20:32, 7 July 2014 (EDT)Tao

You're a few months late to the party. Also,

>I request the list be removed from the page

There is no list. There is only a link to the list. Is this what you were referring to? MegaTron1XD 21:06, 7 July 2014 (EDT)

Tier List for other Brawl Mods?

What about the other Brawl mods? Will they get Tier Lists as well? Just asking. Smashdude10 08:25, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

That's not for us to decide. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 10:08, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

Oh, okay. Smashdude10 16:58, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

Alternate costumes slots

Why can't we write the file number of each costume in Project M? We're already doing that with Brawl, and I'm having hard time finding them. --Wolfy76700 (talk) 17:53, 5 August 2014 (EDT)

So... unofficial stuff now?

If it's not by Nintendo... --ComJacker (talk) 20:07, 24 October 2014 (EDT)

…it stays. Read this to find out why we have this article and PM character pages. Also, SW:OFFICIAL. Rtzxy Smashing! 20:12, 24 October 2014 (EDT)

Criminal Activity?

Is Miiverse dumb enough that Project M has to do with theives? What kind of website would ban users for just saying Project M? Anyway I sorry for saying dumb, but anyway how is mentioning Project M or PM really offensive on Miiverse? (Smashworker101 (talk) 19:00, 12 November 2014 (EST))

It's flawed. It probably has to do with the fact that the Nintendo censors might mistake the "M" in "Project M" for something else that's inappropriate. But, erroneous bans are common on Miiverse, so there's that. Rtzxy Reflect! 19:13, 12 November 2014 (EST)

This is my understanding of the issue. Nintendo has no legal right to stop people from downloading or playing PM. It is however in their right to block services (such as Miiverse) if they wish. Obviously, they don't want people talking about hacking, probably because at some point some idiot will hack their console, break it, and try to sue them. They can't supply a custom ban message, so they pick the "illegal content" one, because it's kind of similar-ish and might scare the younger/less-knowledgable crowd into stopping. Toomai Glittershine The Interspacial 20:56, 12 November 2014 (EST)

So if someone on Miiverse talks about hacking, they actually get banned? Like the example messages.

"Hey everyone, let's talk about hacking Super Smash Bros Brawl."

"Which one is good, Brawl+ or Brawl-?"

"Project M Project M Project M Project M Project M Project M PM PM PM PM PM PM."

"Ew, regular Super Smash Bros Melee is so overrated, but hacked Super Smash Bros Melee is awesome."

"Project M is way better than Brawl+ and Brawl-."

Like that? (Smashworker101 (talk) 22:56, 12 November 2014 (EST))

Pretty much. Miiverse is flawed, though, so… Rtzxy Reflect! 23:04, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Yeah, I hate that this is even an issue as well, even though I get what Nintendo is doing. But basically, Project M in a nutshell is just elements from the previous 3 games in the series (obviously lot less elements from Brawl and Smash 64) and putting them in one best-of modified complication. --71.238.114.106 23:31, 3 January 2015 (EST)

Criticism/Controversy?

I noticed the Brawl+ page has received it's own controversy section of being accused as Melee 2.0 and the same criticism has been expressed towards Project M. Should we have a section for that on this page? 128.187.97.18 01:39, 8 January 2015 (EST)

Leaks?

Has anyone seen the leaks about Knuckles, Lyn, Isaac, and Sami? Should we mention them somewhere, like in the future releases? I know it's not particularly hard to fake a leak for a game that's already a hack, but at least Knuckles and Lyn have video proof and Isaac has a GIF. Also, much like Nintendo with the ESRB leak, PM requested the video of Knuckles and Lyn be taken down. I think it should be mentioned in the future releases section that at least Knuckles and Lyn were leaked for 4.0, if not Isaac and Sami, who have little evidence. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 15:45, 11 March 2015 (EDT)