User:Omega Tyrant/Competitive Q&A

Being SmashWiki's resident competitive smasher, I figure I'll create a page where people can ask me any questions they may have about competitive play, gameplay, information about characters and stages, what they can improve on, etc. Note though, I'm not equally knowledgeable on all areas, so don't expect an answer as equally informative as someone else may have received. For example, asking a question about Zero Suit Samus will likely result in a less informative answer than a question about King Dedede will.

Additionally, if you have a Melee exclusive question, you're better off asking this guy.

Post your questions in a new section on this page, in the format below.

Subject of Question

Q: Your question ~~~~

Age of players

Q: What would you say is about the average age of players in the typical tournament, and what is the range of ages? --- ReiDemon, Author Extraordinaire, 12:37, 27 December 2011 (EST)

A: I don't know the age of everyone, so I can't answer that accurately. Though in the two tournaments I went to, I would guess the average age was between 18 and 20. For the age range in the Smash scene as a whole, from what I observed, is from as low as 13, up to the high 20s (which could increase farther in the future). Omega Tyrant 15:01, 27 December 2011 (EST)

At the top levels, most players are at least college age, usually over 21. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 19:09, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

Tier list

Q: Why do you dislike Meta Knight even though you are a Competitive smasher like I am? ..... Happy New Year 16:36, 27 December 2011 (EST)

A: 1.) Smashers from all levels dislike Meta Knight, from the top professionals to the scrubbiest of casuals. Being competitive is irrelevant. 2.) What do you mean by dislike? If by disliking playing the character, I simply do not enjoy playing him more than I enjoy playing many other characters. If you mean disliking the character himself, I do not dislike him, as being proban does not mean I dislike the character. Omega Tyrant 16:45, 27 December 2011 (EST)

I'm guessing that was invalid to ask. :P Dots The Asian 19:54, 15 August 2012 (EDT)

Distribution of information

Q: What would you say is the correct and/or prevailing ratio of technical knowledge vs. non-technical knowledge vs. instinct needed to succeed at a high level? Toomai Glittershine The Non-Toxic 17:22, 27 December 2011 (EST)

A: I think this would vary from person to person. For myself, I find "practical knowledge" (such as knowing when a move will KO, its reach, its relative speed, etc.) more useful than exact technical knowledge, with instinct being capable to trumping both when it comes through. Omega Tyrant 06:11, 14 January 2012 (EST)

I like pie

Q: How long has it been since you got your first Smash Bros. game? Avengingbandit 23:26, 13 January 2012 (EST)

Note the competitive Q&A, not life Q&A. MegaTron1XD 00:23, 14 January 2012 (EST)

A: See Mega's answer, though I got Melee back in the Christmas of 2003. Also, keep the name of the section relevant. Omega Tyrant 06:11, 14 January 2012 (EST)

Sorry, I just couldn't come up with a name for this question. Avengingbandit 11:48, 14 January 2012 (EST)

Rumble: On or Off?

Q: By default, Rumble is on for Melee and Brawl. Some smashers prefer to turn it off, but others keep it on, claiming that it provides additional stimuli to SDI as soon as they are hit. Do you play with rumble on, or do you turn it off? Why? Mousehunter321 (talk · contributions) 16:12, 12 February 2012 (EST)

A: I just keep it on, as I simply never been bothered by it. Omega Tyrant 17:12, 12 February 2012 (EST)

Copies

Q: Are people supposed or recommended to bring their own Smash Copy? King KirbyD 18:49, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

A: Each person is not expected to bring a copy of whatever Smash game they're playing. However, tournaments are very rarely able to provide an adequate amount of setups (a full setup being a tv with a game console and game), and as such, recommend people to bring setups to the tournament, often giving those who bring setups an incentive (usually giving them a discount on their venue fee or removing the fee altogether). Omega Tyrant 18:56, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

C-Stick

Q: If smashers play with the tap jump disabled and use X to jump, do they use the C-Stick for smash attacks and aerials? I use the C-Stick for all my aerials and most smash attacks, but if I was forced to jump with X, I would find this quite awkward. Toast ltimatum 07:05, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

A: Tap jump varies, plenty of players have it on (even if no one uses it to primarily jump), such as Meta Knights using it to aid uair strings. For c-stick, every competitive player makes use of it. You simply can't play to your best without it (c-stick allows you to use aerials in any direction without interrupting your air movement to initiate them with the control stick). As for your comment, using X with the c-stick for aerials has always felt completely natural to me, and there's no way I could do autocancelled aerials, spaced bairs, and the rest of the aerials stuff to such proficiency using tap jump. Omega Tyrant 08:05, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Intense

Q: Your userpage says that you've completed Adventure Mode on Intense with all characters, gotten at least one KO with every character in Cruel Brawl, and completed Classic Mode in Brawl with 17 characters on Intense without using any continues. It also says you've cleared Boss Battles on Intense with every character and even Solimar. What is your strategy for Classic, Adventure, Cruel Brawl, and Boss Battles? blue ninjakoopa 15:37, 16 December 2012 (EST)

Not sure what you're talking about with Adventure, in Melee I only managed that feat with Ganon, and in Brawl, SSE doesn't work that way.

With Classic, there is no real particular strategy, just being able to outplay the AI and exploit it in the nonstandard battles. If you want a slightly easier Classic run, you can ensure you fight giant Yoshi round 2, as this will eliminate one of the 2 giant battles you have to do and is much easier than the other possible giant battles.

With Cruel Brawl, simply plank. Planking is the only way to realistically get a high score in Cruel Brawl. Strategies may differ some depending on character (I utilise an offensive plank approach with Dedede instead of trying to get the alloys to kill themselves), but planking remains the core of the strategy. There's no safer place than the ledge.

With Boss Battles, first and foremost, it's all about learning boss patterns and knowing how to evade their attacks. If you can't get hit, you can't possibly lose. Unless your evasion is near perfect, you'll sustain damage, and it helps to know how to properly utilise the heart containers and evaluate the risk/reward of going into the next battle not healed. Such as, if you're over 100% and are up against Master Hand, it's advisable you go for it as Master Hand doesn't have much risk of killing you while having the potential to cause a lot of damage (with his hand drill attack). And lasty, you have to know how to beat bosses most efficiently (the less time you spend fighting them, the less chance you have of sustaining more damage or dying). To do so, you have to spam the attack that racks up damage most quickly (a combination of the attack's damage output, and how quickly the move can be performed). You also have to know your safer alternatives, in situations where you can't use your primary damage racking attack (such as with Bowser, f-smash will be your primary move, but you'll want to use fair instead when you don't enough time to safely f-smash).

If you have questions regarding specific characters, I can give specific strats for them. Omega Tyrant 23:30, 16 December 2012 (EST)

Teching

Q: Can you tech out of helpless state? I want to get up faster after using Spinning Kong. Infernape612 (talk) 22:44, 2 February 2013 (EST)

A: You can only tech the ground, a wall, or ceiling while you are in hitstun. The helpless state that results from expending your Up-B or using an airdodge (melee) does not induce hitstun and therefore cannot be teched out of.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 02:04, 4 February 2013 (EST)

A: I'll add to this; while you can't tech it, you can avoid the landing animation, by using the move so that it ends at a height that it auto-cancels. Donkey Kong players like Will regularly do this when recovering with Donkey Kong. Omega Tyrant 00:50, 6 February 2013 (EST)

Spike

Q:Does Mr.Game & Watch dash attacking on someone that is on the ledge count as a spike? BlueRidiculous 22:29, 3 February 2013 (EST)

A: That isn't a true spike. It is a stage spike. See this article for more details.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 02:04, 4 February 2013 (EST)

Team battles

Q:Team battles are annoying for me due to lack of teamwork between my brother and me, and my neighbour's Snake constantly pelting me with exsplosives. What is your opinon on Team battles? Fedorakeeby11 Hey look, a giant, flying distraction! 11:20, 8 March 2013 (EST)

A:This page isn't really to ask about my opinions of things, but I'll answer anyway; I can enjoy doubles, though I prefer singles to them. Mainly, I just like the gameplay of singles better, and in singles, I know any victory/defeat is of my own doing. Omega Tyrant 15:48, 8 March 2013 (EST)

I think that 2v2 battles are among the funnest things to do in Brawl. Try practicing team combos (following up with a strong attack after a throw, etc.) If you want to improve team cooperation, try turning Friendly Fire on so you can practice not focusing on the same thing at once to improve teamwork. If you do, focus on different opponents. Important to team battles is always watching your teammate and protecting them when they're in danger. Maybe OT could give you more tips.Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:00, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

Pokémon Trainer hacks

Q: Are there any tournaments that allow hacks for Pokémon Trainer that allow his Pokémon not to switch every time they die, and hacks that remove stamina? What do you think the individual tier placements of the three Pokémon would be, or their ranking compared to other characters? Awesome Cardinal 2000 11:59, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

A: Of course. In fact hacks exist to remove the trainer completely and give each pokemon an individual down B. I'm sure codes exist on Brawl Vault. Or you could extract some from the Project M gct file. As for their individual tier rankings, Squirtle would be middle high tier similar to Wolf. Charizard would be lower middle similar to Ike and Ivysaur would be low tier. Brian^{Don't try me!} 12:50, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

A: Brian is incorrect about hacks in standard vBrawl tournaments. In standard tournaments, gameplay hacks are typically never allowed. While there are hacks that pretty much everyone would agree improves the game (no tripping code, removing stamina + forced switching from the PT), they aren't standardised. Mandating the hacks would create significant logistic issues, as it requires additional resources outside the game that many players do not have access to. And players want to try playing the same exact game across each setup in a tournament and from when they practise (some players are very sensitive and won't play on a setup with even a very minor aesthetic change). As such, gameplay hacks are disallowed altogether, including the unanimously beneficial ones.

For tier placements, Squirtle would be around where Brian stated. Charizard would range from low tier to middle low (however he wouldn't reach as high as Ike, around Yoshi would be the possible maximum). Ivysaur would be a definite bottom tier and candidate for worst character in the game. Omega Tyrant 14:19, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Whoop I misread the question. I thought you asked ARE there hacks to remove PT flaws. Also note Project M tournaments have standardized hacks to remove PT and make the 3 pokemon all viable characters :p--Brian^{Don't try me!} 16:24, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Project M is a mod, which requires hacks already, so of course it can have hacks as part of its standardised play (though since Project M requires such, it could never be more than a side event). Omega Tyrant 16:30, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

vBrawl

Q: Why would some competitive people name Brawl as vBrawl while many other people would just name it as the former? Dots The Hammer Bro 15:15, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

A: To quickly differentiate it from the hacks, and "vBrawl" is pretty much only used in context with the hacks or where the hacks are applicable. When talking about just about it, people will just use "Brawl". Omega Tyrant 15:52, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

R.O.B.

Q: What would you say ROB's best finishers are? Couldn't find any good information on his page. Scr7 11:11, 18 June 2013 (EDT)

A: R.O.B.'s biggest problem in competitive play is his poor killing ability. His best overall finisher is probably his nair, though slow startup can make it difficult to land at kill percent without your opponent being dumb, and its not so high knockback scaling can delay killing heavier opponents until 150%. Bair is a similar to nair in killing ability with better startup and a worse hitbox, but it has significantly less base knockback, so it can even struggle to kill non heavies under 150%. U-smash is R.O.B.'s strongest attack, and his only real shot outside an improbable dair meteor smash to get a kill around 100%, but its strictly vertical hitbox necessitates a hard read to land it, especially without platforms. R.O.B.'s killing ability is so subpar that you can find yourself getting kills regularly with up throw, which will kill from the 160-200 range (if your opponent lives to this range, up throw is your best shot to end their stock as it is far easier to land than his other kill moves).

Those moves are your primary killers with R.O.B. F-smash is really bad with a combination of slow start-up, poor reach with a terrible hitbox, and simply not being that strong for a move of its speed. D-smash is often stale, and it has low knockback scaling, so heavier characters can live a fresh d-smash to even 200%. Dair is so ridiculously slow, that it takes an incredible read or a really dumb opponent to land it offstage. Fair can get edgeguard gimps and kills, but it's not quite strong enough and is often stale to kill from neutral. Charged laser and fully charged Gyro can kill if landed offstage, but lack the power to kill from neutral (especially the former). Omega Tyrant 11:34, 18 June 2013 (EDT)

Thanks. Would it be a good idea to get the opponent offstage with a f-throw, b-throw, or something else, then try and edgeguard them? I know that ROB can easily edgeguard most characters. Scr7 11:54, 18 June 2013 (EDT)

If they're above 30ish (where d-throw starts sending them too high to reliably followup), and below where u-throw kills them, then f/b-throw towards the closest ledge to then attempt an edgeguard is the best option out of a grab. Omega Tyrant 11:59, 18 June 2013 (EDT)

What power level How powerful would you say both NorCal and SoCal regions are?

Q: If each region of the United States was ranked according to how powerful they are in "Competitive smashing", in your opinion how high would both regions of California be ranked? In addition, where would my region be ranked? Dots The Wii 20:30, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

Q: In addition, how would you rank all of the Smash regions (by state or something) for Melee and Brawl? Awesome Cardinal 2000 20:38, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

A: @Dots: SoCal has been considered the second best US region after NY/NJ since as far as I can remember. NorCal is up there for best region outside the big four, along with NE. Texas was considered the third best in the past after NY/NJ and SoCal, though inactivity of its top players have caused Florida to surpass it, and it's now the weakest of the big four.

A: @Ac2k: I really can't answer that, especially not for Melee. Omega Tyrant 21:06, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

Things to learn

Q: What things should an above average player learn to become a better player? Scr7 15:40, 10 July 2013 (EDT)

A: The number one thing you can do is thoroughly test out your characters, and fully learn the practical uses of their moveset and abilities. You can learn all the frame data there is of your moves, it won't do you any good if you don't know the actual practical uses of them. When I first joined the wiki, I immediately became the best player on it, having literally only played computers and very casual friends/family at the time. And then when I finally started playing in offline tournaments, I was able to start off rather well instantly, instead of going through the phase of constant last and next to last placings nearly every tournament newbie experiences, despite having only played the aforementioned computers and wifi with human players mostly around the skill level of those on the wiki (rarely did I wifi anyone beyond what you find here on the wiki). I attribute this to the fact I learned my characters so well, and knew how they and the game worked. And yet I still can't tell you the frame data of any of my characters' moves.

The easiest and most effective way to get better though is to just keep playing people better than you. Eventually you'll adapt, and improve to match your competition. If you want to speed up that process though, really learn your characters and their moveset.

Also, don't neglect training against cpus, they can really help in practising tech skill stuff, spacing, and how you can use your moves. However, when training against cpus, fight to train, not to win.

Also also, never main more than three characters, and don't swap the characters you use every other week.

And of course, don't ever touch the Pokemon Trainer. Omega Tyrant 20:08, 10 July 2013 (EDT)

SSB4 Newcomers

Q: Which newcomer from Super Smash Bros. 4 do you like the most, the Villager from Animal Crossing, Mega Man from Mega Man, or the Wii Fit Trainer from Wii Fit? Marioisawesome118 15:38, 13 July 2013 (EDT)

A: This page is supposed to be about competitive related questions only. If this about which looks to have the best potential from the glimpses we seen, then Mega Man (and also the answer if you're just asking which one I like most). Omega Tyrant 16:31, 13 July 2013 (EDT)

Bracket pools

Q: Since it has apparently gone mainstream in sufficiently large tourneys, how efficient and fair would you say it is compared to RR pools? What would you say would be the disadvantages? Bandit 21:50, 17 July 2013 (EDT)

A: I find bracket pools terrible. Regarding efficiency, they may be faster, but not to a degree where it's really significant. They can be heavily unfair, as being seeded wrong hurts you much more than it would in traditional pools. They additionally eliminate one significant advantage of pools, where they don't give weaker players more tournament sets. The biggest issue I have with them though, is that bracket pools can often create a situation, where losing rewards you while winning punishes you. For example, top 4 get out of a bracket pool, and if you win your first match, you go up against the #1 seed, who you will lose to. However, losing here sends to the other side of the bracket where you'll have to play the #3 seed to get a top 4 spot, while not being any farther in losers than you would be if you lost the first match. Losing the first match however, puts you at the same progress in losers that you would be if you won the first match and lost to the #1 seed, while now you're on the side of the bracket where you'll have to play the #4 seed for top 4 (and since these are pools, where skill is really spread out, it's probable there's a significant difference between the #3 and #4 seed). The exact situation described happened to my friend No Skillz at Apex. Brian also told me how some guys in Melee had to intentionally throw a set in bracket pools to make it out, and how some other Melee guys were screwed from misseeding and the loser conundrum in bracket pools. In tournaments, losing should never ever be more beneficial for the player than winning a match is. Omega Tyrant 22:25, 17 July 2013 (EDT)

Differences in Community

Q: Based on what you've seen, how different would you say the Melee and Brawl communities are? --Timson622222 (talk) 23:07, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

A: This is late, as I been away from the Wiki for about a month, but I'll answer. My answer though will be very brief, as this could be something worth an essay (and highly argumentative), and I don't feel like delving into it. So in short; the Melee community is generally more mature and uniformed (probably due to its older on average playerbase), but is overly stubborn, has too much of a hardon for tech skill, and places Melee on way too high of a pedestal, while being unnecessarily hostile towards Brawl and its players (it has tone down a lot in recent years, but you still get some Melee players doing it). The Brawl community has a greater appreciation for the series as a whole and has a greater willingness to play/help the other games and mods (see Brawl community support being the reason Melee got enough money to get into Evo, while it's doubtful the Melee community would of done the same for Brawl), but is generally less mature (especially around girls), is less uniformed with an active hostility towards any attempts to create something resembling a standard ruleset (see the way overblown hostility towards BBR's ruleset attempts and the Unity Ruleset Committee during its whole existence, while the Melee community on the other hand has always supported the MRB's rulesets), and is generally unnecessarily negative (such as many Brawl players being hostile towards each other, and many players having claimed Brawl is dying for like the past three years).

One bad thing both communities have is placing their top players on a pedestal. Melee community treats Mango and Ken as if they were gods, even though both have been known to be rather assholish. Brawl community lets its top players have much greater sway in determining rulesets and TOs will often bend rules for the top players (hence probably the major reason why MK never got a long widespread ban, as many top players are MKs and predictably nearly all the ones playing MK strongly opposed it). Both communities have let M2K get away with his shit for years and have even actively disparage attempts to reprimand him (see the immense flaming the URC got, and big TOs announcing they aren't going to listen the URC, when the URC gave M2K a red card and attempted to ban him from tournaments for a month). Omega Tyrant 11:38, 8 September 2013 (EDT)

Concerning setups

Q: For Melee setups, which is preferred: the Gamecube, or the Wii? Furthermore, regardless of the console, do setups often use composite inputs (Yellow, white, red) or component inputs (green, red, blue)? --- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 13:41, 16 February 2014 (EST)

A: In my experience, Melee TOs show a slight preference for Cubes since they have less complicated hardware problems. Cubes don't burn out memory cards and have much more reliable disk readers. Setups I see use composite inputs. --Brian^{Don't try me!} 14:25, 16 February 2014 (EST)

Meta Knight tips?

Q: I attended WHOBO MLG today and didn't make it out of the singles pools, losing to a really good Marth player and a Meta Knight player. For each set, I lost with R.O.B. for the first two matches, went with Kirby, and lost the third lol. My knowledge of matchups is rather poor. Do you have any tips for fighting Meta Knight with R.O.B., i.e. what should I do more or less? blue ninjakoopa 22:43, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

A: Meta Knight is a really bad matchup for R.O.B. (and his worst overall), who neglifies many of R.O.B.'s advantages while accentuating R.O.B.'s disadvantages. The matchup is bad enough that unless you're a dedicated solo R.O.B. main, you might want to consider going another character who doesn't do as poorly. I wouldn't really be able to give much help with this, as I've only played it a few times and don't do well in it. I would strongly recommend watching the M2K vs Ocean match from Apex 2012 though, to see how R.O.B. can win it. Some pointers I can give though are:

• R.O.B.'s laser is transcendent so it can hit through Nado. You'll probably want to get your laser charged, but if MK is nadoing far enough away, shoot him with it.

• If a MK nadoing your shield and your shield remained unpoked as he ended the move near you, you can punish it by immediately dropping your shield and down smashing.

• Fully abuse R.O.B.'s projectile game, it's the only real advantage he has here.

• If you grab MK over 150%, up throw him. It might KO him, and if it doesn't, well you weren't going to be able to edge-guard him off a forward/back throw anyway without a charged laser. Also never up throw below 150% (unless you're on a platform), as you want to keep it fresh so that it can kill when you can't kill MK below 150% (that goes for any matchup really though).

Not much else I can unfortunately. Additionally, you'll probably do better by playing to the player, rather than you ever could playing to the character since the matchup is so bad. Omega Tyrant 22:14, 4 May 2014 (EDT)

Team Attack

Q: Is there a reason why team attack is on in tourney rules? Aidan the Aura Master 15:13, 8 February 2015 (EST)

A: Simply, having no team attack is broken and allows for degenerate play, while having team attack on forces much more interesting strategies and makes players need to have actual awareness of where they're throwing out their attacks. Additionally, 2-on-1s become interesting and doable with team attack on, when they're otherwise hopeless foregone conclusions with team attack off. Omega Tyrant 10:16, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Smash 4 Sheik

Why do people always say that Sheik is a high tier character in Smash 4? From what I've seen of her, she has very mediocre abilities all around and I'm curious why others seem to think she is one of the best characters in the game. MarioIsTheBest (talk) 13:21, 14 March 2015 (EDT)

Fast attacks with very little landing lag, good projectile, Bouncing Fish, and other factors all contribute to Sheik having one of the best neutral games in all of Smash 4. Sheik can sometimes struggle with KOing, but she has several frame trap setups, great edgeguarding ability, and fantastic combo ability to make up for it. Low-level Sheiks may not be able to consistently take advantage of all these things, but you start to see everything come together at high levels, and as people get better I feel her strengths will become even more magnified over, say, Diddy. --Timson622222 (talk) 14:11, 14 March 2015 (EDT)

Best Character competitively in the series that isn't Brawl Meta Knight

What is it? I want to know your opinion? MarioIsTheBest (talk) 13:21, 14 March 2015 (EDT)

Brawl Ganondorf

Why isn't he in a bottom tier of his very own? A character with bad matchups against all other characters and as ineffective as Ganondorf should surely be in it's own tier at the bottom in my opinion? I mean, Pikachu was in a top tier of his own and he isn't as much better than the rest of the cast in Smash 64 as Ganondorf is worse than the rest of the Brawl cast. MarioIsTheBest (talk) 13:21, 14 March 2015 (EDT) :This isn't the place for those opinions. See SW:TALK. Ganonmew (talk) 07:15, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

age affecting skill

Q: would you say that the reason older people are typically better than younger people is just because they have more experience with the game? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 20:07, 3 September 2015 (EDT)