Forum:Ganondorf treated unfairly

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This is coming from someone who originally thought Meta Knight was the best. Ganondorf is my new favorite Brawl character. Ganondorf, with practice, easily defeats everyone in Brawl. His slowness seems to vanish after much use, and in its wake seems like powerful, quick attacks. He has many different strategies that are probably not all fully discovered. Even with a three-hit combo, enemies could quite possibly receive around fifty damage or more. I've seen very unpredictable DI and recovery as Ganondorf, and he is absolutely versatile when it comes to eliminating edge-guarding foes. He's a general devilish enemy on ground and, especially so, in the air. Still though, he gets nothing but disrespect. I've been flamed and have seen people getting flamed for simply complimenting him at all. He's called the slowest character there is, he's rock bottom in the tier, his moveset and strong points are totally butchered in this Wiki's description of him, the list goes on. I want to promote respect towards Ganondorf, and that's why I'm asking you, the Smash community to help me with that cause. He's never gotten even a thousandth of the respect he deserves, and we need to work so that he gets that thousandth. Who's with me?! SSBC (talk) 23:00, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, no character is "bad" or "sucks". It's all about how that character does against others, and that character's attributes that set him/her/it aside from other characters. All characters with flaws make up for them in some other way, but their low tier placement is because of their vulnerability to other characters and performance in tournaments. Ganondorf if slow, yes, but he is extremely powerful, with some of the strongest attacks in the game, including the Warlock Punch. His aerials are executed with surprising agility, he is heavy, and he "equipped" with a meteor smash. The tier list also isn't a matter of opinion, but of sheer fact, without any doubt. Also, your avatar suggests that you dislike Shippidge; I do too. He's not funny, his voice is annoying, and he is overall bad at directing machinima. Just... you know, letting you know, because... you know. BNK ^[E|T|C] 00:08, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Well said, Blue. Kind of. And I'm glad to have another Shippiddge Hater. Care to join my Youtube group? SSBC (talk) 03:03, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sure. BNK ^[E|T|C] 03:08, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Blue Ninja, look for SHIPPIDDGESUXBIGCOCK on Youtube. SSBC (talk) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC) I'm never big on saying that a character is treated "unfairly" over two years after the game came out. I really haven't seen the level of play out of Ganon that I have out of Meta Kinght, Snake, etc... The simple fact of the matter is that Ganon doesn't win tourneys. And that's not because people don't play him, or at least that they don't try him. Do you honestly think that people that play this game competitively (i.e. Mew2King) just randomly picked their character. Mew2King especially would try every character to figure out which one is the best. And he doesn't do this lightly; he's made some amazingly detailed calculations of every character's attributes in Melee, and he's equally specific about Brawl. And if there really is something about a character that could make them break-out, go try in in competition. Look at Ken with Marth and Wobbles with the Ice Climbers. People didn't think they were all that good until people proved it on the tournament field. Then people took notice, and revised their opinions of those characters. If you honestly think Ganon can do this, show it. People will notice if you beat top pros; they don't when you make a forum and say you could be good if you practiced. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, you have such a bleak opinion on the Smash World. I honestly don't care of Mew2King. No. Not one bit. My idol players are Zhoaten and Ally. And against those people, who have devoted much of their teenage-adult life to Brawl... I just don't think I'd be able to compete with that. I don't play too much Brawl due to school, life, etc. and just don't have the seasoning of a true Brawler. SSBC (talk) 03:04, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

So you admit that you have no experience with high level play and don't really know how Ganon would fare? zzz. Shadowcrest 03:57, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've seen Zhoaten (best Ganondorf to this day) who was able to almost defeat Ally, so actually, I do know of competitive Ganondorf capabilities. I just don't have tourney-happy abilities yet. SSBC (talk) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC) At least Ganondorf can abuse the fact that people underrate him and play against him in the wrong way (like for example approach him instead of camping him, allowing him to hit. And when he lands a hit, he can rack damage very quickly (although unfortunately his moves also stale pretty quickly), Flame Choke itself is an amazing tech-chasing move.

But about recovery, SSBC, I have to disagree. His recovery is terrible. Aerial Flame Choke is easily intercepted due 19 frames start-up, and Up b has 14 frames start-up and no type of Super Armor or anything, only grab Armor which hasn't too much horizontal range and no priority at all right above him, though the uppercut has surprisingly good range and has pretty good priority. He also has both slow air movement and fast fall. It may be equal or even worse than Link's recovery due although both are around equal horizontally and Ganondorf clearly has a better vertical recovery, the lack of projectiles and lack of a disjointed up b makes him easier to edge-guard. Also, the Landing lag glitch is also very annoying due his lack of air speed with also lack of good moves to reliably keep the opponent away from the punishment of that lag. Firewario (talk) 10:21, March 27, 2010 (UTC) I said I've seen unpredictable recovery from him, Fire, I wasn't saying he was good at recovery. His aerial logic has never let me down, actually, by the way. And what landing lag glitch? I don't know of such a thing. SSBC (talk) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

HI, im a noob at smash wiki. (mattbell888) but dude I totally agree with you. Ike, Link, Ganon and a whole bunch of low tier guys are my favorites. and you know what? I KICK ASS WITH THEM! some of my friends think they are good at brawl and they only use MK, snake, Falco and Diddy. I recently got into brawl and thoroghly pwned. But yeah, Ganon is basically a TANK. Feel free to flame me, I need more experience on forums with trolls and noob haters, because everyone was a noob at one point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by mattbell888 (talk • contribs) 23:32, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

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As to your comment, you beating your friends is great, but it doesn't make Ganon a good character. You beating professional brawlers at tournments with the SBR rules, that might make Ganon a good character. Semicolon (talk) 01:10, April 24, 2010 (UTC)