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Greninja (SSB4): Difference between revisions
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Greninja also boasts a decent projectile in [[Water Shuriken]] and a variable [[counterattack]] in [[Substitute]]. Water Shuriken functions as both a decent approach tool and boasts KO potential when fully charged against highly damaged opponents, while Substitute possesses combo, recovery and mindgame potential due to its unique ability to be aimed in various angles during the counterattack. Lastly, Greninja has some of the best smash attacks in regard to overall utility, with its up smash being one of the strongest in the game. | Greninja also boasts a decent projectile in [[Water Shuriken]] and a variable [[counterattack]] in [[Substitute]]. Water Shuriken functions as both a decent approach tool and boasts KO potential when fully charged against highly damaged opponents, while Substitute possesses combo, recovery and mindgame potential due to its unique ability to be aimed in various angles during the counterattack. Lastly, Greninja has some of the best smash attacks in regard to overall utility, with its up smash being one of the strongest in the game. | ||
Despite these strengths, Greninja has a number of flaws. It has rather high ending lag on many of its attacks (with its aerials being notorious in this regard), requiring Greninja players to know when they can safely use such attacks. Greninja's recovery is also decent at best: while it has a number of good options to choose from, [[Hydro Pump]] and [[Shadow Sneak]] can both be predictable. Furthermore, while Greninja does boast a number of powerful KO moves, they are difficult to sweetspot due to their unusual hitbox placements, and some of them are slow and unsafe to use in a neutral situation. | Despite these strengths, Greninja has a number of flaws. It has rather high ending lag on many of its attacks (with its aerials being notorious in this regard), requiring Greninja players to know when they can safely use such attacks. Greninja's recovery is also decent at best: while it has a number of good options to choose from, [[Hydro Pump]] and [[Shadow Sneak]] can both be predictable. Furthermore, while Greninja does boast a number of powerful KO moves, they are difficult to sweetspot due to their unusual hitbox placements, and some of them are slow and unsafe to use in a neutral situation. | ||
Overall, Greninja has a fairly high learning curve, but can become a potent character when mastered. As a result, it has average matchups with the rest of the cast with decent tournament results along with a few dedicated and noteworthy players, such as {{Sm|iStudying}} and {{Sm|Some}}. | Overall, Greninja has a fairly high learning curve, but can become a potent character when mastered. As a result, it has average matchups with the rest of the cast with decent tournament results along with a few dedicated and noteworthy players, such as {{Sm|iStudying}} and {{Sm|Some}}. | ||
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|uthrowname= | |uthrowname= | ||
|uthrowdmg=5% | |uthrowdmg=5% | ||
|uthrowdesc=Heaves the opponent upward. Possibly Greninja's most useful throw, as it can be followed up with up smash at low percents, up aerial at medium percents and can KO around 150%-200%, the latter of which depends on the opponent's DI and weight. | |uthrowdesc=Heaves the opponent upward. Possibly Greninja's most useful throw, as it can be followed up with up smash at low percents, up aerial at medium percents and can KO around 150%-200%, the latter of which depends on the opponent's DI and weight. | ||
|dthrowname= | |dthrowname= | ||
|dthrowdmg=6% | |dthrowdmg=6% | ||
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|usdefname=Hydro Pump | |usdefname=Hydro Pump | ||
|usdefdmg=2% (per shot) | |usdefdmg=2% (per shot) | ||
|usdefdesc=[[bulbapedia:Hydro Pump (move)|Shoots two streams of water]] from one of its hands in the opposite direction of travel, propelling Greninja in the input directions. Functions similarly to [[Quick Attack]], though it can be used twice in the same direction. Each water stream has a [[push]] effect, allowing it to be used as an unorthodox edgeguarding technique; on the ground, Greninja can also fire a single spurt of water in one direction and then cancel it by aiming downward. While it offers excellent distance, Greninja will immediately start falling once the second water stream ends, making it easy to underestimate vertical distance gained. Unlike other up specials, Greninja's up special input will trigger a Shadow Sneak charge instead if the Control Stick is angled to the side enough. | |usdefdesc=[[bulbapedia:Hydro Pump (move)|Shoots two streams of water]] from one of its hands in the opposite direction of travel, propelling Greninja in the input directions. Functions similarly to [[Quick Attack]], though it can be used twice in the same direction. Each water stream has a [[push]] effect, allowing it to be used as an unorthodox edgeguarding technique; on the ground, Greninja can also fire a single spurt of water in one direction and then cancel it by aiming downward. While it offers excellent distance, Greninja will immediately start falling once the second water stream ends, making it easy to underestimate vertical distance gained. Unlike other up specials, Greninja's up special input will trigger a Shadow Sneak charge instead if the Control Stick is angled to the side enough. | ||
|usc1name=High-Capacity Pump | |usc1name=High-Capacity Pump | ||
|usc1dmg=— | |usc1dmg=— | ||
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Upon the game's release, Greninja was played extensively in Japanese tournaments. However, it would soon infamously receive nerfs in update [[1.0.4]], hurting its KO options, hurtbox, and also fixing a glitch that it had with Shadow Sneak. This, along with better characters up and coming, lowered Greninja's representation in tournaments, and it was beginning to be looked down upon due to its slow aerials, lackluster grab game, and lack of reliable KO options, and was passed over for characters perceived to be more viable. This and its high learning curve made it very distasteful to pick up. Despite this, Greninja still saw solid placings all around at tournaments, which caused its perception to not be as tough as it was after its nerfs. Greninja would at first rank at 25th on the first [[tier list]] released by the ''4BR''. | Upon the game's release, Greninja was played extensively in Japanese tournaments. However, it would soon infamously receive nerfs in update [[1.0.4]], hurting its KO options, hurtbox, and also fixing a glitch that it had with Shadow Sneak. This, along with better characters up and coming, lowered Greninja's representation in tournaments, and it was beginning to be looked down upon due to its slow aerials, lackluster grab game, and lack of reliable KO options, and was passed over for characters perceived to be more viable. This and its high learning curve made it very distasteful to pick up. Despite this, Greninja still saw solid placings all around at tournaments, which caused its perception to not be as tough as it was after its nerfs. Greninja would at first rank at 25th on the first [[tier list]] released by the ''4BR''. | ||
However, updates [[1.1.3]] and [[1.1.5]] gave Greninja noteworthy buffs, with an increase to its KO power and combo options, as well as reduced landing lag on some of its aerial moves. With these buffs, Greninja began to see higher representation and some players began to realize its potential once again, largely due to the work of {{Sm|DarkAura}}, {{Sm|Eddy}}, {{Sm|Oisiitofu}}, {{Sm|Some}}, {{Sm|Venia}}, and most notably {{Sm|iStudying}}, who achieved 2nd place at [[B.E.A.S.T 6]]. These results allowed it to rise to 21st on the second tier list. | However, updates [[1.1.3]] and [[1.1.5]] gave Greninja noteworthy buffs, with an increase to its KO power and combo options, as well as reduced landing lag on some of its aerial moves. With these buffs, Greninja began to see higher representation and some players began to realize its potential once again, largely due to the work of {{Sm|DarkAura}}, {{Sm|Eddy}}, {{Sm|Oisiitofu}}, {{Sm|Some}}, {{Sm|Venia}}, and most notably {{Sm|iStudying}}, who achieved 2nd place at [[B.E.A.S.T 6]]. These results allowed it to rise to 21st on the second tier list. | ||
Despite its slightly rare results, Greninja was ranked 22nd on the third tier list, and is seen to be a viable option in tournaments, while also being backed by excellent tournament representation. After Some placed 9th at [[Frostbite 2017]], however, Greninja's results dropped once again. Greninja was once again thought to not be as great as initially, esecially after [[2GGC: Greninja Saga]] saw it placing rather inconsistently (this is largely attributed to the Greninja players eliminating themselves during the top 48 part of the bracket). Despite an explosion of Greninja's results appearing recently in tournaments, voting for its tier placement was already done, resulting on Greninja being ranked at 26th on the fourth and current tier list, its lowest placement so far. Regardless, it is generally agreed that this burst of good tournament results could cause Greninja's placement on a future tier list to rise, although this remains to be seen. | Despite its slightly rare results, Greninja was ranked 22nd on the third tier list, and is seen to be a viable option in tournaments, while also being backed by excellent tournament representation. After Some placed 9th at [[Frostbite 2017]], however, Greninja's results dropped once again. Greninja was once again thought to not be as great as initially, esecially after [[2GGC: Greninja Saga]] saw it placing rather inconsistently (this is largely attributed to the Greninja players eliminating themselves during the top 48 part of the bracket). Despite an explosion of Greninja's results appearing recently in tournaments, voting for its tier placement was already done, resulting on Greninja being ranked at 26th on the fourth and current tier list, its lowest placement so far. Regardless, it is generally agreed that this burst of good tournament results could cause Greninja's placement on a future tier list to rise, although this remains to be seen. | ||
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==[[Trophies]]== | ==[[Trophies]]== | ||
{{Trophy/Fighter | |||
|name=Greninja | |||
|image-3ds=GreninjaTrophy3DS.png | |||
|image-wiiu=GreninjaTrophyWiiU.png | |||
|mode=Classic | |||
|desc-ntsc=This Water/Dark-type Pokémon is the fully evolved form of Froakie. It's just as fast and dangerous as any other ninja, and the throwing stars it can make out of water can shear metal. In Smash Bros., as well as being a graceful, speedy fighter, it can also use moves like Hydro Pump that let it travel through the air and avoid falling. | |||
|desc-pal=This Water- and Dark-type Pokémon is the fully evolved form of Froakie. It is just as fast and dangerous as its name suggests, and the throwing stars it can make out of water can shear metal. In this game, as well as being a graceful, speedy fighter, it can also use moves like Hydro Pump to let it move through the air and avoid falling. | |||
|gamelist-ntsc={{Trophy games|console1=3DS|game1=Pokémon X & Pokémon Y|release1=10/2013}} | |||
|gamelist-pal={{Trophy games|console1=3DS|game1=Pokémon X/Y|release1=10/2013}} | |||
}} | |||
{{clrl}} | |||
{{Trophy/Fighter | |||
|name=Greninja (Alt.) | |||
|image-3ds=GreninjaAltTrophy3DS.png | |||
|image-wiiu=GreninjaAltTrophyWiiU.png | |||
|mode=Alt | |||
|desc-ntsc=Greninja's Substitute down special lets you teleport to dodge attacks and then strike back, making it an effective and hard-to-predict way to counterattack. You can also control where you reappear by inputting directions. When you vanish, sometimes you'll be replaced by a log, other times by a cuddly toy. | |||
|desc-pal=Greninja's Substitute down special lets you teleport to dodge attacks and then strike back, making it an effective and hard-to-predict way to counter-attack. You can also control where you reappear. When you vanish, sometimes you'll be replaced by a log, and other times by a Substitute doll. | |||
|gamelist-ntsc={{Trophy games|console1=3DS|game1=Pokémon X & Pokémon Y|release1=10/2013}} | |||
|gamelist-pal={{Trophy games|console1=3DS|game1=Pokémon X/Y|release1=10/2013}} | |||
}} | |||
{{clrl}} | |||
{{Trophy | {{Trophy/Fighter | ||
|name=Secret Ninja Attack | |||
|image=SecretNinjaAttackTrophyWiiU.png | |||
|desc-ntsc=In Greninja's Final Smash, it uses its Mat Block move to flip opponents into the air. It then slices them repeatedly in front of the bright moon before smacking them back down to the ground and launching them. The initial Mat Block flip doesn't have much range, but should it hit home, the rest of the attack is unavoidable. | |||
|desc-pal=In Greninja's Final Smash, it uses its Mat Block move to flip an opponent into the air. It then slices them repeatedly in front of the shining moon, before smacking them down to the ground so hard they get launched. The initial Mat Block flip doesn't have much range, but if it hits home, there's no evading the rest of the attack. | |||
|game=ssb4-wiiu | |||
}} | |||
{{clrl}} | |||
==In [[Event Match]]es== | ==In [[Event Match]]es== | ||