Talk:Super Smash Bros. Ultimate/Archive 1

NOTE: This talk page is to discuss the content of the article we have on the upcoming Smash game, not to discuss the game itself. Read our talk page policy before commenting on here, specifically: Do not post here about what you think of the game's content. Do not post here what content you wanted to see in the next Smash game. Do not post here about what you think of Smash for the Nintendo Switch in comparison to the other Smash games. If you want to discuss Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch, take it to the forums. This talk page is only for discussing the content of our article.

Day 1 notes

Various miscellaneous observations while I'm at work:

• The official website (smashbros.com) is now reworked into a site for the Switch installment with a layout similar to the 3DS/Wii U site. The old SSB4 content seems to be moved to a new subdomain but isn't live there yet (check the bottom right corner).
• Sakurai tweeted out the announcement trailer but his specific level of involvement is not yet confirmed.
• We should be cautious with identifying characters from their silhouettes in the trailer; they're probably obvious but we should hedge accordingly ("silhouettes resembling X, Y, and Z are in the trailer" as opposed to "X, Y, and Z are confirmed playable").

Sorry for the impromptu notes here, but I thought they should be noted somewhere and I can't be on Discord to coordinate at the moment. Miles (talk) 18:02, 8 March 2018 (EST)

the link is just bugged Serpent  King 18:08, 8 March 2018 (EST)

Sakurai's involvement is confirmed apparently. 24.12.185.109 19:26, 8 March 2018 (EST)

Protect page?

For... obvious reasons, full protection might be in order here. I believe we full-protected the SSB4 articles before release, so we should do the same for SSB Switch. Bwburke94 (talk) 18:49, 8 March 2018 (EST)

I feel like full protection wouldn't be necessary as of right now (considering nothing problematic has happened yet in terms of edit warring), and the page as it is right now was basically created by non-admins. If people started repeatedly adding false information, then protection would probably be necessary. Awesome Cardinal 2000 18:56, 8 March 2018 (EST)

Fucks Sake It Is A New Instalment And Link Is In His Breath Of The Wild Design

It Is Smash 5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.74.131 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 8 March 2018 (EST)

We appreciate the thought, but this is improper use of a talk page. Aidan, the Rurouni 22:39, 8 March 2018 (EST)

There is no evident proof that it is completely new. It could be an "enhanced port" which could be considered a "half-sequel". So please calm down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yagamilite (talk • contribs) 23:57, 13 March 2018

"whether this is a new title or a port of a previous game is unknown"

So, based on the nature of the release trailer, Sakurai's tweets, and zero lack of indication otherwise, would it be safe to assume that this is a completely new game and not a reinstallment of an old game on the Switch? (The News template has this line and I think it's unnecessary.) Awesome Cardinal 2000 02:23, 9 March 2018 (EST)

Given that the idea of Smash on Switch being an extended version of the 3DS/Wii U version has been very common among fans for a long time (influenced by the number of other Wii U ports that have functioned similarly such as Tropical Freeze, MK8, Pokken, even Captain Toad as of this Direct), I feel it's a warranted statement of ambiguity until we see actual gameplay. Miles (talk) 02:53, 9 March 2018 (EST)

I think it is important for us to see more before we say it's not a port. If we are even willing to say Inklings are not offically confirmed as playable, then why not be as careful overall? It likely could be in a grey area- perhaps with the Smash 4 engine and such. RobSir zx 08:09, 9 March 2018 (EST)

We don't have to explicitly say that it isn't a port, but because there's no evidence to indicate that it is, we shouldn't introduce the conflict as though there is evidence for both sides. 73.147.234.34 20:46, 10 March 2018 (EST)

If it turned out to be that the Inklings weren't playable, would it not seem like one of the sickest jokes ever made in gaming? When have we ever gotten a trailer for a game with new characters given this much time and they turned out to be assist trophies or something similar? That's not even to mention the fact that they've been played around with as possible characters ever since DLC was made clear to be a more serious thing in Sm4sh. Technically, it's possible that this is a 3DS port, or even a port of Brawl or something. Technically, it's possible the inklings will appear in every single final smash in the game. If we go strictly by the technical, we eliminate much of the reasonable. Should not there be limits to what we are willing to exclude for the sake of social reasonability and avoiding ludicrous complexity in our speculation and descriptions? I doubt many people would analyze this article through the eye of a wise professor or something of the sort. That's just my two cents, though. --UnbeatableSith (talk) 21:50, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

Your editorial comment is so-noted. Problem is however that we are a wiki, and strive to provide facts and avoid uncertainty wherever possible. You are right when you say that it's highly likely that the Inklings will be playable, and that to show them so prominently and then not have them playable would be a dick move, not to mention suicidal. Despite all that however, the Inklings have not been explicitly confirmed, and until we hear otherwise, we cannot say for certain. That's just the way it has to be. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 21:58, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

Nintendo would have to say that it's a port to be a port. The teaser showed Inklings and Breath of the Wild Link. Our evidence suggesting it being a port? Some leaker said so. The 3DS version was so different from the Wii U, and the gameplay's been the same since the N64 and Melee, it's hard to tell what's a port in the Smash Bros series. SeanWheeler (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2018 (EST)

There's so much rumors and speculation right now. And there is evidence on both sides for whether or not this is a port of SSB4. So until we have a concrete answer, which will be during E3, we should leave up "whether this is a new title or port" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.161.78 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 18 March 2018 (EDT)

Second longest gap between games

I think this trivia should be removed for a number of reasons:

1. We haven't officially confirmed that it is a new game and not just a port. If we're including ports, it would be the third gap, as the shortest gap is between for 3DS and for Wii U, only two months.
2. Second out of four isn't particularly notable.
3. It hasn't been released yet and Smash Bros. is notorious for being delayed, which could make the gap closer to if not longer than Brawl to SSB4's six-year one.

TheNuttyOne (talk) 20:35, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Long time no see, Nutta.

1. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Mario Kart 8 are treated as two entities because one is a port of another. Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS are the same game, for different consoles; regardless of whether Switch Smash is a port, it's still a different entity from the original Smash 4.
2. This one, I have no real argument against.
3. Switch Smash is not going to get delayed by a few years. Smash 3DS got delayed by a few months after Sakurai said it'd be releasing in the summer back in the April Direct.

Aidan, the Rurouni 21:13, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Fair enough. Still, I think the second reason is enough to remove it. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 22:13, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Agreed Awesome Cardinal 2000 22:42, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Evidently my account merge did not also include autoconfirmation, so would someone like to remove it? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 21:33, 11 March 2018 (EDT)

I'll get it. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 21:43, 11 March 2018 (EDT)

I hate to continue to beat the dead horse, but in the time that has passed since I made my comment and more trivia has been added to the page, I have come to a response to point number 2: the topmost trivia point is also a second out of four one. If that one is notable enough to merit a point, then so is this. Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 23:59, 11 March 2018 (EDT)

Then... that one should be removed, too. TheNuttyOne 23:54, 12 March 2018 (EDT)

"If that one is notable enough to merit a point, then so is this." Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 00:51, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

"Then... that one should be removed, too."

Right now, we have 3:1 saying "second of four" = not notable. I didn't notice that particular point, so I didn't mention it. However, the existence of another point that goes against the (current) consensus isn't reason to ignore the consensus. Should other people wish to speak up and change the consensus, that's another thing, but as of right now we have no reason for either trivia point to be there. TheNuttyOne 23:49, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

Wait, the topmost trivia point is a first out of four(/second out of five) anyway. So your argument is also inaccurate. TheNuttyOne 23:56, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

1. It is not a 3:1, because BV simply said he'd take care of removing the point.
2. "Second of four" is as notable as a "second of five". Both are a "first since (insert something here)" trivia point.

Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 16:37, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

I think at the very least we should hold off on trivia points like this until we know for sure that this game is not a port. Serpent  King 16:47, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

I already said that ports are treated as separate entities from the original titles, but I think that we should hold off until we know something concrete. Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 17:11, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

Yesterday, I heard someone say that it's not a port but a fresh game, but I cannot find a source confirming this. But I'm taking this one seriously because I had a staff member at EB Games/Gamestop tell me this. I've never been steered wrong by these guys before. Nonetheless, we should do more research. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 18:34, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

We have no precedent for smash ports other than the original being ported to Wii VC (and so on). 3DS/Wii U is not a proper port because it features different stages, modes, etc. It's more of a dual release. If on the off chance Smash for Switch is going to be just "Smash 4 but with Inkling", it should be treated no different than the VC port. Serpent  King 19:36, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

If it ends up being a "Super Smash Bros. Deluxe", being a port of both games with slight changes (new characters, stages, modes, etc.), then I'd still call it a different game. Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 21:00, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

Bowser supposedly confirmed for Smash 5

Gentlemen, I have breaking news regarding returning veterans...

1. According to twitter user @Marcus_Sellers, Bowser of Super Mario Bros. fame has been allegedly confirmed to be playable for Super Smash Bros. 5 as another twitter user going by the name of Smash Switch News reported a few days ago (11th March as this is being posted). —Preceding unsigned comment added by SonicTeamz90210 (talk • contribs) 03:36, 13 March 2018

Those are not primary sources. We cannot accept this proof unless it's from an official Nintendo source. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 05:00, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

Except Bowser's silhouette can clearly be seen in the trailer, and thus, even though he hasn't been clearly confirmed yet, it should be noted in the article. I don't see what's wrong with saying something like "Bowser's silhouette can be seen in the first trailer; this implies that he will be returning to the newest game, although this has not yet been explicitly confirmed." Awesome Cardinal 2000 12:05, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

I second that, if it can be seen, it should be noted. Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 12:09, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

It's already noted, under the "Veterans" section. JaeDy (talk) 12:52, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

The user who originally started the discussion was referring to the Bowser article. Awesome Cardinal 2000 15:04, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

I mean, nothing is official yet, but it should be pretty obvious that Bowser is a returning character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yagamilite (talk • contribs) 00:00, 14 March 2018

It's worth mentioning that Macrus Sellars is known to be an illegitimate "industry insider". He tends to simply repeat information that's already known and argues with well-known legitimate leakers/insiders. Pokebub (talk) 02:23, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

Nicknames

If you look on the front page of r/smashbros right now, you'll see that two of the top posts have "Smash 5" in the titles. In addition, if Smash Switch is a common nickname (which I agree with), it should also be added in instead of the others being removed. Awesome Cardinal 2000 14:43, 19 March 2018 (EDT)

Confused, what's being removed? Serpent  King 16:37, 19 March 2018 (EDT)

See the latest reversion, I added a bunch of common nicknames but another user removed them Awesome Cardinal 2000 16:40, 19 March 2018 (EDT)

I will reiterate: I've seen various nicknames used, but it's very inconsistent. It's not like with SSB4, where literally everyone called it that. Aidan, the Irish Rurouni 19:13, 19 March 2018 (EDT)

All of the various nicknames should be noted in the article, even if not 100% of people call it that. "Commonly used" does not mean everyone has to use it. Awesome Cardinal 2000 20:29, 19 March 2018 (EDT)

More silhouettes uncovered

Just a few days ago, I finally figured out who some of the more obvious silhouetted characters in the trailer really are: according to my calculations, not only did I see both Yoshi and Captain Falcon quite clearly but I also believe that Wario's hat and the shape of Kirby can be spotted on the right hand side of the silhouettes under that giant Smash ball before they fade out of the scene as it ends. Badman 10:30, 25 March 2018 (BST)

The problem with the silhouette is that, beyond Samus, Donkey Kong, and Bowser (which are clearly visible), the rest is an ink blot test; people will see what they want to see. Until E3, we have no solid idea as to who those characters are. Aidan, the Springing Rurouni 12:20, 25 March 2018 (EDT)

Super Smash Brothers for Switch possible demo?

I've just heard that Nintendo has hosted a tournament. Besides Splatoon, there is a SSB for Switch tournament, and I believe it starts in June. I believe this information is useful, because it could possibly mean that the newest game will be unveiled before the E3, but I don't know if it's true. It could be possible though. Michele (talk) 05:23, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

I know of the tournament you speak of, but where did you hear that there is a Smash for Switch tourney? That's the one thing I didn't know. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 07:05, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

You mean the tournament we literally found out about a few days ago? Aidan, the Springing Rurouni 08:12, 29 March 2018 (EDT)

Exactly, that's what I meant! Since you know about it I won't have to explain it to you. I wanted to inform you, because my theory is there could be information before the E3, a bit like Super Smash Bros Brawl.:::Michele (talk) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

New Character Announcement

Been a while since I been here. ^^

But anyway, Nintendo announced this today. I know the character has yet to be confirmed, but is it worthy putting it here? otherwise my mistake for putting it here. Hylia's Eye (talk) 19:14, 30 March 2018 (EDT)

That tweet is dated July 2014......Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 19:16, 30 March 2018 (EDT)

Another twitter user by the name of Joe Ramirez posted to his account a proper now-deleted tweet from Nintendo of America's account that five brand-new fighters will be announced 2 and a half weeks from now on Monday 23th April and the game will be out on October 26th. If you want to see his post before it gets deleted, check out this site: [1] I hope you'll see that the post is indeed offical and vaild. Chaos Kin's cousin 16:52, 4 April 2018 (BST)

Considering the fact that I can't find anything more on this via an internet search (variations of "smash bros five new characters"), I'm willing to doubt the legitimacy of this. But I'm willing to wait until the 23rd to see what we see. Aidan, the Rurouni 12:54, 4 April 2018 (EDT)

This seems incredibly fake. Considering anyone can simply use inspect element to edit things on the web, it wouldn't be too hard to simply edit Nintendo's earlier tweet announcing Smash Switch. You also have to consider Nintendo's huge follower count. A lot more people would've seen the tweet instead of just one person. Even if the tweet was real, it would've also made more sense to retweet it rather than screenshot it. Pokebub (talk) 01:35, 10 April 2018 (EDT)

Consistancy with Characters

The characters page lists Bowser, DK, and Samus as confirmed. This page doesn't - it mentions them as visible, but stops short of calling them confirmed. Which one is right? It doesn't seem sensible to have the two disagree like this. --Keiya (talk) 16:04, 9 April 2018 (EDT)

It says they're "clearly visible". Thus, we know it's them and they're here. Aidan, the Rurouni 22:18, 9 April 2018 (EDT)

Satoru Iwata

I'm not sure we should keep the trivia point about Satoru Iwata's lack of involvement. While it's certainly true he can no longer contribute, we don't have a clear date as to when this game entered development, and it is entirely possible that Iwata's involvement on the previous entry, or something personal such as a character suggestion, can be carried into Smash 5. Toast ltimatum 20:47, 9 April 2018 (EDT)

Remove logo speculation

The Japanese Smash logo trademarked by Nintendo prior to the release of the teaser trailer does not actually match the new logo used in the trailer. Instead, it is just a generic trademark submitted for a refresh of the series trademark. And so the speculative text about the trademarked logo's similarity to the Melee logo is not so much relevant to this article, as it is a trivia fact about which version of the logo Nintendo uses for keeping the trademark updated. (Note also that the Splatoon logo trademarked around the same time is that of the original game, not Splatoon 2.) It should be removed. SuperFalconBros (talk) 14:45, 12 April 2018 (EDT)

Game title/article title

It should be noted that the current working title of the game is not "Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch" à la the Smash 4 titles. Instead, it is just "Super Smash Bros." with no subtitle. The official website's tab title shows "Super Smash Bros. (Title Pending) for Nintendo Switch" which makes this clear. The Japanese page has "大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ（仮称） | Nintendo Switch" which separates it even further.

Considering the title of some articles like "Super Smash Bros. 4," however, I'm not sure how relevant that is for this article's title. SuperFalconBros (talk) 15:06, 12 April 2018 (EDT)

It's supposed to be read as "Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch". As in, a game titled (tentatively) "Super Smash Bros.", which is "for Nintendo Switch". TheNuttyOne 16:08, 12 April 2018 (EDT)

?

How do we know it IS for the Nintendo Switch? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but it could be for 3DS AND Switch OR a 3DS exclusive. User:RatedMforMario. Let's-a-go!~ 20:20, 22 April 2018 (EDT)

It literally says 'Switch' in the video. The logo appears at the end there. Not to mention that the website also sports the logo. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 21:04, 22 April 2018 (EDT)

While it's plausible it could be released for 3DS too, we know for a fact it will be released on Nintendo Switch. If they announce it'll be released on both later (a la Sushi Striker), it's not that big of a deal to update. TheNuttyOne 21:16, 22 April 2018 (EDT)

I don't think it's at all possible that it'll release on the 3DS. We already have a Smash game for 3DS. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 22:51, 22 April 2018 (EDT)

Are transformations coming back?

I don't know why I'm saying this but... if this is REALLY a new entry, is the transformation gimmick coming back or- if this game is using a modified version of the Smash 4 engine- are transformations really gone forever? Dr. He-Man, Nurse of Grayskull 15:56, 23 April 2018 (BST)

It's simply not known at this point. All will become clear in time :) JaeDy (talk) 12:17, 23 April 2018 (EDT)