Talk:Steve (SSBU)

Moveset table orientation

I noticed how Min Min's table can multiple columns: one for each of her different ARMS.

Since it was confirmed that different materials will effect the damage, should we make a table that lists each material in different columns (and maybe a column named "Steve" can be used to represent moves that either don't use crafted weapons, or that are used while the weapon is broken)?

Once again, this is only for when Steve is released. I'm not proposing it should be done now. Just wanted to bring it up and see what everyone thinks.Thecontributor22 (talk) 18:08, October 3, 2020 (EDT)

This definitely seems like the most logical way to do it. Ahemtoday (talk) 18:40, October 3, 2020 (EDT)

I was going to suggest this as well. 0%Kamikazee (talk) 18:57, October 3, 2020 (EDT)

I agree with this, too. Seems like the most logical way to approach things. KingMaiz (talk) 14:11, October 4, 2020 (EDT)

This is what I had in mind. Apologies if it seems a little messed up.

Note: All numbers are listed as base damage, without the 1v1 multiplier.

		Name	Damage						Description
			Steve	Wood	Stone	Iron	Gold	Diamond
Neutral attack		{{{neutralname}}}	{{{neutral1dmg}}}	{{{neutraldesc}}}
			{{{neutral2dmg}}}
Forward tilt		{{{ftiltname}}}	{{{ftiltdmg}}}	{{{ftiltdesc}}}
Up tilt		{{{utiltname}}}	{{{utiltdmg}}}	{{{utiltdesc}}}
Down tilt		{{{dtiltname}}}	{{{dtiltdmg}}}	{{{dtiltdesc}}}
Dash attack		{{{dashname}}}	{{{dashdmg}}}	{{{dashdesc}}}
Forward smash		{{{fsmashname}}}	{{{fsmashdmg}}}	{{{fsmashdesc}}}
Up smash		{{{usmashname}}}	{{{usmashdmg}}}	{{{usmashdesc}}}
Down smash		{{{dsmashname}}}	{{{dsmashdmg}}}	{{{dsmashdesc}}}
Neutral aerial		{{{nairname}}}	{{{nairdmg}}}	{{{nairdesc}}}
Forward aerial		{{{fairname}}}	{{{fairdmg}}}	{{{fairdesc}}}
Back aerial		{{{bairname}}}	{{{bairdmg}}}	{{{bairdesc}}}
Up aerial		{{{uairname}}}	{{{uairdmg}}}	{{{uairdesc}}}
Down aerial		{{{dairname}}}	{{{dairdmg}}}	{{{dairdesc}}}
Grab		{{{grabname}}}	—	{{{grabdesc}}}
Pummel		{{{pummelname}}}	{{{pummeldmg}}}	{{{pummeldesc}}}
Forward throw		{{{fthrowname}}}	{{{fthrowdmg}}}	{{{fthrowdesc}}}
Back throw		{{{bthrowname}}}	{{{bthrowdmg}}}	{{{bthrowdesc}}}
Up throw		{{{uthrowname}}}	{{{uthrowdmg}}}	{{{uthrowdesc}}}
Down throw		{{{dthrowname}}}	{{{dthrowdmg}}}	{{{dthrowdesc}}}
Forward roll Back roll Spot dodge Air dodge		—	—
Techs		—	—
Floor attack (front) Floor getups (front)		{{{floorfname}}}	{{{floorfdmg}}}	{{{floorfdesc}}}
Floor attack (back) Floor getups (back)		{{{floorbname}}}	{{{floorbdmg}}}	{{{floorbdesc}}}
Floor attack (trip) Floor getups (trip)		{{{floortname}}}	{{{floortdmg}}}	{{{floortdesc}}}
Edge attack Edge getups		{{{edgename}}}	{{{edgedmg}}}	{{{edgedesc}}}
Neutral special		[[{{{nsname}}}]]	{{{nsdmg}}}	{{{nsdesc}}}
Side special		[[{{{ssname}}}]]	{{{ssdmg}}}	{{{ssdesc}}}
Up special		[[{{{usname}}}]]	{{{usdmg}}}	{{{usdesc}}}
Down special		[[{{{dsname}}}]]	{{{dsdmg}}}	{{{dsdesc}}}
Final Smash		[[{{{fsname}}}]]	{{{fsdmg}}}	{{{fsdesc}}}

I saw the beginning of Min Min's table in the editing mode, and based it off of that. Sorry if it looks a little messed up right now. Thecontributor22 (talk) 09:21, October 5, 2020 (EDT)

I think it depends on the strength of the projectile. I also had that happen by trying to block charge shot with shadow flare, and it only blocked the uncharged charge shot. Sarah (talk) 15:32, December 22, 2020 (EST)

FE3H reference?

Hey, this may sound silly because Minecraft has no connection to Fire Emblem: Three Houses, but I saw this post. It claims that Steve's trailer references Three Houses cutscene. Steve and Byleth are in the light. Mario and Dimitri are in the dark, presumably both surprised; Mario surprised about Steve and Dimitri assuming Byleth was the ghost. Derekblue1 (talk) 19:16, October 8, 2020 (EDT)

It's a somewhat generic shot, so I don't think so. Judging by the title, this post seems to be more of a joke anyway. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 19:22, October 8, 2020 (EDT)

I understand now. Thank you for the response, Serena Strawberry. Derekblue1 (talk) 20:18, October 8, 2020 (EDT)

Should Values Which Have Two Decimal Places (Such as Diamond Neutral Attack at 4.59%) be Shown With One or Two Decimal Places?

For characters such as Terry or Captain Falcon, values are shown to the first decimal place on the wiki if that damage value has a decimal place. However, for characters such as Joker (SSBU), an attack such as Joker's up aerial shows 0.75% for hits 1-4 on full hop and 0.6375% on short hop on the wiki. For Steve, attacks such as neutral attack and forward tilt have values to the second decimal which do exist and take effect in game and are not just calculation by-products. Should the values be shown to the second decimal place or just to the first in the move table?

Here are the values for neutral attack and forward tilt if they were to the second place:

None	Wooden	Stone	Iron	Golden	Diamond
2.72%	3.40%	3.74%	4.08%	3.40%	4.59%

I believe having it to the second place will make sure people know precisely what the damage value of each material type is. Frostauk (talk) 09:16, October 14, 2020 (EDT)

We show the values as they are defined by the game, and thus should be as many decimal places as necessary - show them all, but don't show needless zeroes. The only exception is for rounding errors caused by (insert long explanation of how decimal points work in computers here which only matters if the damage is 10.99999 or something). Toomai Glittershine Le Grand Fromage 17:20, October 14, 2020 (EDT)

Add what blocks Steve gets on each stage?

Should we add what blocks appear on which stage for Steve to use?

Durability Tests

I did some tests for the durability of each weapon and each material. What I did was test how many times a lone move can be used before the weapon breaks. These are my results:

Neutral/Side Tilt/Neutral Aerial/Floor Attacks/ Edge Attack: 13 times (Wood & Gold), 20 times (Stone)/ 25 times (Iron & Diamond)

Forward Smash: 3 times (Wood, Stone) 4 times (Iron & Diamond), 2 times (Gold)

Up Tilt/Up Aerial: 13 times (Wood & Gold), 16 times (Stone), 18 times (Iron & Diamond)

Dash Attack: 16 times (Wood & Gold), 19 times (Stone), 22 times (Iron & Diamond)

Forward Aerial/Back Aerial: 11 times (Wood & Gold), 14 times (Stone), 15 times (Iron & Diamond)

Mining: 28 items (Wood & Gold), 34 items (Stone), 38 (Iron & Diamond)

I can't make sense of how this durability system works, but maybe someone else can make use of this information. Thecontributor22 (talk) 20:24, October 14, 2020 (EDT)

Could we turn this into information on how many resources each move uses? 0%Kamikazee (talk) 23:17, October 14, 2020 (EDT)

I recommend we wait. In a few days, we should get the list of character values extracted, which will contain all this information without requiring much guesswork. Toomai Glittershine The Eggster 23:20, October 14, 2020 (EDT)

Meshima recently posted some tweets regarding durability [1] [2]. --CanvasK (talk) 18:53, October 16, 2020 (EDT)

Should we put this information into the form of a table and document it somewhere on the wiki (of course, while citing the source as well)? Thecontributor22 (talk) 23:45, October 18, 2020 (EDT)

Maybe the durability could look something like this:

Weapon	Wood	Stone	Iron	Gold	Diamond
Sword	25	40	50	25	50
Axe/Pickaxe/Shovel	70	85	95	70	95

And how much is consumed could look like this:

Move	Wood	Stone	Iron	Gold	Diamond
Neutral Attack/Forward Tilt/Neutral Aerial	2
Forward Smash	9	14	14	18	14
Ledge Attack/Floor Attacks	2
Up Tilt/Up Aerial	5.5
Dash Attack	4.5
Forward Aerial/Back Aerial	6.5

It's just an idea, though. That's why I want to run it by first. Thecontributor22 (talk) 07:49, October 19, 2020 (EDT)

It may be important to note how up smash doesn't use durability, either in the table or in a description. It's also missing "Mine". Other than that I think it'll work. --CanvasK (talk) 08:23, October 19, 2020 (EDT)

Sure thing. In that case, I'll make some adjustments. Thecontributor22 (talk) 11:37, October 19, 2020 (EDT)

Pronouns

In Minecraft, everything in Minecraft don’t have a gender. So should we refer by what Sakurai says or what regularly Minecraft says? RobbyB3ll4s (talk) 16:11, October 17, 2020 (EDT)

Also I apologize for doing that dumb edit before also. I should’ve asked here and shouldn’t have done something like that without asking. RobbyB3ll4s (talk) 16:15, October 17, 2020 (EDT)

It's okay! I also put a note on your talk page. Generally, what Sakurai says is what we go with, unless there's something else in more popular usage. In this case, since Sakurai used "he" and most everyone agrees with that, it's fine to use "he". It's also worth noting that something that's genderless can still use gendered pronouns; pronouns aren't the same as gender. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 16:21, October 17, 2020 (EDT)

Quotes

I think having five quotes on top of the page is way to many. Should we remove these introduction taglines, since they don't provide any more info than images in gallery? 217.149.243.2 08:26, October 24, 2020 (EDT)

Byleth does this, too. I think you should go ahead and get rid of all the taglines but the main ones on both pages (leaving "Byleth Joins Smash House!" and "Steve Rocks the Block!") and see how that sets with the greater community. Be sure to state that you're doing it for consistency with Steve when you do it to Byleth. Sincerely, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss. 12:41, October 24, 2020 (EDT)

The victory steak change

Should we mention why they made the steak disappear after Steve/Alex/Zombie/Enderman eats it on their victory screen in Version 9.0.1? (Because a lot of people said it looked phallic.) CleffaGirl173 (talk) 07:43, October 27, 2020 (EDT)

Already mentioned in the Trivia section (4th bullet point as of writing). --CanvasK (talk) 08:05, October 27, 2020 (EDT)

Down tilt

It says in the article that down tilt can block projectiles. However, I have found this to be untrue. It cannot block Samus's full Charged Shot, nor can it block Joker's Eiagon with Arsene. It looks like it can only block weak projectiles? Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new here. PSMDMaster (talk) 12:51, December 16, 2020 (EST)

Aesthetics

I noticed that when steve falls from high enough, he will make the noise that happens in minecraft when he takes fall damage. Should this be added into the article? Sarah (talk) 15:32, December 22, 2020 (EST)

It is already mentioned in the trivia section. Also always put new sections at the bottom of a talk page. --CanvasK (talk) 18:51, December 22, 2020 (EST)

76.224.228.130 21:02, February 12, 2021 (EST) wHY no netherite

Elytra Vertical Recovery

I noticed that every elytra section mentions its vertical recovery being poor, but this only occurs when you use the move incorrectly. With the use of certain recovery techniques, you can make it go significantly further, enough to make elytra get to ledge from beyond the bottom camera border. Pretty much every good Steve extends elytra's vertical distance. A great example would be in this clip from Yonni. Twitch ClipTytaneum (talk) 13:52, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

Redstone

I think it's probably worth mentioning how irrelevant redstone is. I've labbed it pretty extensively, and you can't actually run out of it unless you use specific setups to do so. The only almost practical way to do it is by placing extremely long lines of TNT with starting materials, and even then you regain a ton every time you mine redstone. Because you burn little and gain so much, you always run out of other materials first (Block mats for TNT and gold/iron for minecarts.) This makes redstone not really worth thinking about and "If Steve is out of redstone..." situations nonexistant. Tytaneum (talk) 14:06, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

About the term ‘units’

I believe minecraft terms mean minecraft vocab, and no minecraft player calls wooden planks or iron ingots ‘units of wood or units of iron’. It’s even labelled as Wooden Plank and Iron ingot in the minecraft ingame crafting guide! Sure this is smash, but we still gotta go by their vocabulary. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 20:54, August 11, 2021 (EDT)

Also, even if it ends up staying the same with this ‘units’ business, at least change it from units of wood to units of wooden planks, as ‘wood’ on its own doesn’t exist in minecraft, only x logs and x planks exist, and should Steve collect logs it is immediately converted to wood. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 20:54, August 11, 2021 (EDT)

Some pedantry, wood does exist in Minecraft. But on the larger topic, "unit" is a better term because it is more general. Steve mines 1 iron ingot, yet places an iron block for 1/9th the cost in Minecraft, so generalizing to a "unit" is more flexible; same issues exist with his other crafts. In my experience most people refer to whatever log/log-derivative they are using as "wood" unless they are using a specific variant for a build; and even then, they'll likely just say "wood" or "spruce/birch/oak/etc." instead of the full name for brevity. Most people will understand what it means, similar to how Smash players understand "tech" for the official term "ukemi". --CanvasK (talk) 21:26, August 11, 2021 (EDT)

My take on the matter (as a seasoned Minecraft player) is that we must use some unifying plural noun that fits all of them - there's no saying "woods" or "stones" or "irons," and the admittedly bland and uninspired term "units" is the simplest and most universal term we have. You note that "we still gotta go by their vocabulary" and while most of the time I would agree, using the term "units" lets you say stuff like "units of wood, stone, and iron" as opposed to "planks of wood, pieces of stone, and ingots of iron." Not a huge fan of this rule, but SmashWiki is not official, and even the people making this game messed around with terminology - see the Tips menu and the Mr. Sakurai presentation.

As an aside, it's not really possible to completely equate Steve's abilities in Smash to the player's in Minecraft - some key examples being that wooden logs and planks are seemingly equated in Smash, and the number of a material required to make an entire set of tools varies vastly across the different tiers. Sincerely, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss. 21:51, August 11, 2021 (EDT)

yonni

Since users keep adding him in, I'm starting a section for him as well. yonni has had pretty decent results with Steve, however up until Riptide he hasn't really had a real "breakout tournament." Online, prior to his 7th place finish at SWT he saw rather mixed success with the character. Offline, he's had an average placement of 9th place at regionals and smaller, which means that Riptide was an outlier compared to the rest of his performance. While it is likely that yonni would continue to perform well in the future, for now I don't think there should be a rush to add a player just because of one outstanding result. CookiesCreme 23:49, September 21, 2021 (EDT)

I personally oppose Yonnis inclusion at this time. Mostly because I don't think we really have a good idea of how good the character is yet. If he's top tier one single 9th place early in the return of offline meta, may not as significant as it currently seems. There are a lot of Steve players popping up and so one good result isn't enough for inclusion to me.Wiifitkid (talk) 23:55, September 21, 2021 (EDT)

There are a lot of good Steve players online and they won't make it in. yonni popping off recently is only a recent thing. We'll just have to wait and see. NPM Morr!? 00:16, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

It's been about a month, and while yonni has yet to reach a result as impressive as 9th place at Riptide, he's still done rather well, with 17th at Glitch 8.5 - Konami Code, 25th at Super Smash Con: Fall Fest, and 33rd at Low Tide City 2021 and garnered wins over players such as Suarez, Epic_Gabriel, and Grayson. I'm a lot more inclined to add yonni at this point since he's clearly shown some consistency. CookiesCreme 21:59, October 24, 2021 (EDT)

DDee and Onin

Opening the discussion to add both of these players into the "Most historically significant players" section. DDee has shown consistent usage of Steve in every run he has in tournament, garnering a large amount of notable wins with the character and recently pushing his first major to take 5th at Momocon 2022. He lacks attendance at majors but I feel this shouldn't be an issue due to his strong regionals. He is also the current #1 in Georgia and although likely to go back down to 2 or 3 in the next PR. Onin is a odd case but he still has a pretty solid lineup of major runs (25th at LMBM, 33rd at Glitch Infinite, and 49th at Riptide) and a plentiful amount of wins, notably recently peaking as Combo Breaker with a 1st. He also takes #3 on the recent Michigan PR. I feel that both of these players have solid arguments to be added to this slot, more so DDee due to repeated wins at other tournaments more than one. Swidd (talk) 22:53, June 10, 2022 (EDT)

Late to this, sorry was very busy. DDee, while being a very good player, hasn't had that many results at a national level, and in my opinion, a very important distinction between being "historically significant" versus being a "hidden boss" is performance at a national level. Now, consistently solid regional results certainly helps his case, but a lot of DDee's regional results have been recent. I'd say wait for DDee, especially since recency bias can certainly cloud opinions on the player, as we don't know how he'd perform in the future. As for Onin, his national results certainly lack what Jake, yonni, acola, and even DDee have, so I'd wait on him as well. CookiesCreme 22:32, June 16, 2022 (EDT)

I've been thinking, DDee is likely going to be ranked on this iteration of the PGR, for North America at least. If he gets ranked, I wouldn't be opposed to adding him. CookiesCreme 15:10, July 3, 2022 (EDT)

PGR v3 30-11 just released and DDee is on it, 18th even https://www.twitter.com/pgstats/status/1554906441152188418, should def be added now Luigi86101 (talk) 15:15, August 3, 2022 (EDT)

At this point I'm for adding both. I think our cutoff for consisteration for Steve's is roughly being able to top 8 majors. Wiifitkid (talk) 10:25, July 4, 2022 (EDT)

Quick update on this, Onin has been added since he won a major. DDee I was going to add but decided to put him off for now because he lacks a lot of results and only has one tournament above regional level, plus his plans on potentially solo-maining PT meaning his Steve results would be lost in time compared to the other Steve players. I think most people would be on board with DDee if he continues to play Steve and see another top 8 at a major (DreamHack?). CookiesCreme 21:56, July 5, 2022 (EDT)

any reason ddee hasn't been added yet? i mean i get that he only really had one major performance but he's literally pgr, top 20 even Luigi86101 (talk) 19:53, November 14, 2022 (EST)

Only one major, he's been going a lot of PT and the PGRs were regional. Lots of PGR v3 players aren't on the lists. Wiifitkid (talk) 19:55, November 14, 2022 (EST)

PGRs were regional sure but he was top 20, and even in orionrank which was international he was top 50, anyway after his performance at dreamhsck atlanta where he beat esam and placed 9th i still dont see any reason now to keep him off the list Luigi86101 (talk) 01:30, November 21, 2022 (EST)

Split Proposal

Seems there's no on-wiki discussion about this yet, so let's start this off.

I support this so long as Brawl Meta Knight gets similar treatment. Both are significant events in Smash history, being the only singles characters to see bans, and should absolutely get the coverage such actions warrant. One could argue Smash 4 Bayonetta and some Doubles combinations (eg. Double Cloud in S4, I think 64 has some too?) as well, though Bayonetta didn't actually see prevalent bans. Doubles combinations could possibly be a single article or something?

Let's say this proposal accounts for Brawl Meta Knight as well, considering it was a far wider-reaching ban and was even in the Guiness Book of Records, I think?? I'll plop the proposal tag on the page after this is up, anyway.

Naturally, such pages should be on the "significant events" template as well. -Plague von Karma 20:22, October 30, 2023 (EDT)

Support for making articles about both Meta Knight's and Steve's bans. VoqéoT 11:18, October 31, 2023 (EDT)

Support as the original proposer. I don't mind Meta Knight getting one either. CookiesCreme 13:02, October 31, 2023 (EDT)

Support on both. Señor Mexicano (talk) 13:06, October 31, 2023 (EDT)

Support. Thegameandwatch The Nerd 16:14, January 26, 2024 (EST)

Support for making articles about both. However I do not think that Smash 4 Doubles Cloud/Bayonetta need their own articles - there was never really a push to ban Bayo and Cloud just went without much fuss at a time where the game was already "dead". Pumpernickelpeter47 (talk) 10:30, March 22, 2024 (EDT)

Support per proposal. Title could be something along the lines of "Discussions of character bans" as a full character ban is a somewhat uncommon occurence. ZeusDeeGoose (talk) 13:12, August 12, 2024 (EDT)

Expanding MHSP to 15

Currently Steve stands at its limit of 10 players, and with the release of the most recent ranking, we are choosing to add one more who had reached the top 30 (Carmelo). While at the moment there are discussions to replace Quandale Dinglelingleton with Carmelo, the point remains that we will still be at the limit, and with many other potential Steve players on the come-up, we are likely going to have to go over the current limit. As such, I am proposing that we raise Steve's threshold to 15 for the following reasons:

• Steve is the most popular Ultimate character in competitive play. He had been ranked 1st by OrionRank/LumiRank in terms of representation since July-December 2022, and in the current season there are going to be 6 Steve players ranked top 50, which is not including Miya's secondary Steve.
• Currently, there are 10 players who easily are historically significant: 3 have won majors with Steve (acola, Onin, Miya); 6 have ranked well in the top 50 with Steve (Carmelo, crepe salee, Jake, Syrup, Yamanaction, yonni); and DDee, while never being formally ranked, has been a top 20-level player for quite some time now. In addition, Quandale Dinglelingleton had ranked in the top 100 and has wins over several top players such as Light (Collision 2023), Zackray (Ludwig Smash Invitational), and Tweek (Fusion 100), and placements such as 9th at SSC 2022 and 13th at Collision 2023. Finally, there are a slew of other up-and-coming Steve players, including Many, Raki, and 33Peranbox, who are all likely going to be ranked top 100 sooner or later, or at least an HM. Either way, there will be a lot of Steve players up for contention.

To sum it up, the section is currently at 10 players, with one more that will be historically significant being discussed right now. As such, the threshold should be increased to 15. CookiesCreme 18:30, August 6, 2024 (EDT)

Support - We are at that point where we we will soon run out of spots, even if we limit it to top 50 players. I believe Steve, being not only regarded as the best character in the game, but also the most represented character at top level, warrants expansion to 15. Wiifitkid (talk) 16:35, August 13, 2024 (EDT)

Support --Meester Tweester (talk) 02:54, September 11, 2024 (EDT)

Support: If a character is prevalent in tournament results to such a point, and all of those players have left a lasting, notable impact within the meta, then it should be accounted for. Nothing more to say. --Beep (talk) 01:10, December 1, 2024 (EST)