User talk:S.Palmer

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Hello! I have noticed that your signature is not compliant with our signature policy:

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Please update your signature to fit these standards. Thanks! Serpent King 20:35, 23 March 2017 (EDT)

Done, and sorry. —S+ Tier (List) | 23:08, 23 March 2017 (EDT)

No problem, thank you Serpent King 23:11, 23 March 2017 (EDT)

Sheik

Read both this and this. After you've done so, feel free to reply about your opinion. -- Beep (talk) 23:46, 7 May 2017 (EDT)

Neither the Zelda Wiki nor the accompanying Polygon article cited supports the claim that Sheik is female. The wiki, if anything, refers to Sheik as male, and the Polygon article only quotes the marketing manager (who, among others, are notorious for inaccuracies) as saying Sheik is female. The marketing manager isn't even a lead creator. —S+ Tier (List) | 23:55, 7 May 2017 (EDT)

Where the hell does this wiki claim Sheik to be male. Good god, you just love to argue with us, don't you? We refer to Sheik as female and that's that. If you have a problem with it, then how about actually being productive about making constructive counter-points rather than just pulling the most random crap out of your ass just to spite us? I'm getting extremely sick of your behavior on this wiki and you constantly arguing with us even when you have no way to prove us wrong. I highly suggest you learn that the world doesn't revolve around you, because right now, I'm sick of dealing with you and you are on a sinking ship with me. Disaster Flare (talk) 23:58, 7 May 2017 (EDT) Sorry, this isn't how we discuss things on a wiki, especially not on my talk page. —S+ Tier (List) | 00:20, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

"Marketing manager" is kinda selling Bill Trinen short. He works as personal translator for Miyamoto ([1]), so his word on this subject probably has more legitimacy than you are giving him credit for. Oscuritaforze (talk) 00:02, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

On this wiki, for Sheik's appearance in Smash, we refer to her as female, because her trophies refer to her as female. The number of times they did this is about 4 or 5, while the number of times they referred to her as male is zero. It doesn't matter what is canonically set - although her only canonical appearance was in Ocarina, and she may have only been referred to as male by developer error. The stone which that is set in is far more crumbly than the stone which says she is female. Meanwhile, you have literally everyone from Nintendo who's been asked about it say that she's female, not to mention that Smash has repeatedly referred to her as such, and never as male. And since we generally stick to whatever the Smash data tells us, the claim that she is female is here to stay, whether you like it or not. Can I make that any simpler? Black Vulpine (talk) 00:11, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Okay, I did misread it, but the point still remains that Sheik has an entire section on her gender and it admits the female thing. Even Aonuma himself is implied to be on board with it. You can't get much more canon than that. Disaster Flare (talk) 00:04, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Two points:

1. Wait, did you just question an article with official information?? Polygon clearly states: We asked Nintendo if there was an official word on this, and they answered the call. Nintendo's official line, quoted from Nintendo senior product marketing manager Bill Trinen, is this: "The definitive answer is that Sheik is a woman — simply Zelda in a different outfit.".
   
2. Zelda Wiki refers to Sheik with male pronouns to avoid spoilers from Ocarina of Time - yes, their policies are strict, but we have different policies to them. And as the SW:NOT policy states, we're not a spoiler-free wiki.
   

These two points should be enough to put an end to this dispute, so please stop. -- Beep (talk) 00:12, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Speaking about that!! I just re-read the policy to make sure I was correct, and look what I coincidentally found:

• The Smash Bros. games themselves care little for concealing spoilers relating to its represented series. A major example is Sheik's true identity, which is a major plot point in Ocarina of Time, but treated as common knowledge by all the Smash Bros. games in gameplay and supplemental material (such as trophy descriptions). As a result, users should be aware of the possibility of cross-series spoilers, and browse accordingly.
  

So yea, this is a thing. We are not a spoiler-safe wiki. We go with what the Smash Bros. games provide us, with little regard for spoilers. This includes Sheik's true identity: a girl. -- Beep (talk) 00:21, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

This whole argument is silly and it shouldn't have been a thing in the first place. Ragnarok320, The Toa of Fire (talk) 00:15, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Yeah, that's true, but to address that, let me bring up another point.

Japanese games with rich lore like Dark Souls suffer from the (I can't think up of another way to put it) imprecise nature of its structure. Often times the localizers will purposefully change the gender or sexual orientation of characters for this reason and the fact that there are white cultural norms the Japanese have to respect in order to sell their games without risking offending the child's papa and mama. Infamously, one of the "female" ghosts in Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door was actually a guy who dressed like a girl, and the fact that Samus was a transgender female was hidden from the public for many years. —S+ Tier (List) | 00:20, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

This argument makes no sense to me. -- Beep (talk) 00:22, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

It boils down to Nintendo sometimes changing the gender of its characters for reasons. —S+ Tier (List) | 00:23, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Yet they never did. Zelda Wiki is also not an official wiki endorsed by Nintendo so there's that. -- Beep (talk) 00:24, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

I wasn't the one who brought up the Zelda Wiki. —S+ Tier (List) | 00:27, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

..which is the point I'm trying to make. Sheik's gender hasn't changed, but her character descriptor has. Look up any Youtube video comparing "localized vs. Japanese." See, I'm not even changing the gender on Sheik on their page, but putting neutral descriptors on it! —S+ Tier (List) | 00:42, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Striking it out

WAIT, DID YOU JUST QUESTION AN ADMIN'S POWER? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?? -- Beep (talk) 00:27, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Nope, you don't have ownership of your talk page. If I see a problem with you, I can and will point it out. Keep this up and you will be blocked. Disaster Flare (talk) 00:28, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

And you think blowing up with nothing to say was productive? This is why I wanted the conversation on the Sheik talkpage and not on some talkpage where the users' inner immaturity would emerge. —S+ Tier (List) | 00:31, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Except it was very productive. Quite frankly, every time you have a problem with something, it's a thorn in our side. I'm an admin, and that was me telling you that you as a person and as a user need to shape up. Disaster Flare (talk) 00:32, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

He's daying the truth, man: he's an admin! A "mod at cracking" admin!! You have no rights to question him except if he's wrong! He didn't do anything wrong! He pointed out your problems! Come on, man!! D: -- Beep (talk) 00:34, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

I respect your status as an admin because that's how a Wiki should operate, but your claim that your paragraph "was very productive"? No chance. I've volunteered in several wikis before and am even an admin in the original (Wikipedia), and I can tell you now that kind of language posted on these sites is a reportable offense for an admin. —S+ Tier (List) | 00:41, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

Except some people here (including admins) have used much worse language here. Frankly, I'm still pretty neutral compared to them. Disaster Flare (talk) 00:44, 8 May 2017 (EDT)