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Talk:Steve (SSBU): Difference between revisions
→Expanding MHSP to 15
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I saw the beginning of Min Min's table in the editing mode, and based it off of that. Sorry if it looks a little messed up right now. [[User:Thecontributor22|Thecontributor22]] ([[User talk:Thecontributor22|talk]]) 09:21, October 5, 2020 (EDT) | I saw the beginning of Min Min's table in the editing mode, and based it off of that. Sorry if it looks a little messed up right now. [[User:Thecontributor22|Thecontributor22]] ([[User talk:Thecontributor22|talk]]) 09:21, October 5, 2020 (EDT) | ||
I think it depends on the strength of the projectile. I also had that happen by trying to block charge shot with shadow flare, and it only blocked the uncharged charge shot. [[User:Sarah|Sarah]] ([[User talk:Sarah|talk]]) 15:32, December 22, 2020 (EST) | |||
== FE3H reference? == | == FE3H reference? == | ||
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It says in the article that down tilt can block projectiles. However, I have found this to be untrue. It cannot block Samus's full Charged Shot, nor can it block Joker's Eiagon with Arsene. It looks like it can only block weak projectiles? Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new here. [[User:PSMDMaster|PSMDMaster]] ([[User talk:PSMDMaster|talk]]) 12:51, December 16, 2020 (EST) | It says in the article that down tilt can block projectiles. However, I have found this to be untrue. It cannot block Samus's full Charged Shot, nor can it block Joker's Eiagon with Arsene. It looks like it can only block weak projectiles? Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new here. [[User:PSMDMaster|PSMDMaster]] ([[User talk:PSMDMaster|talk]]) 12:51, December 16, 2020 (EST) | ||
==Aesthetics== | |||
I noticed that when steve falls from high enough, he will make the noise that happens in minecraft when he takes fall damage. Should this be added into the article? [[User:Sarah|Sarah]] ([[User talk:Sarah|talk]]) 15:32, December 22, 2020 (EST) | |||
:It is already mentioned in the trivia section. Also always put new sections at the bottom of a talk page. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 18:51, December 22, 2020 (EST) | |||
[[Special:Contributions/76.224.228.130|76.224.228.130]] 21:02, February 12, 2021 (EST) wHY no netherite | |||
==Elytra Vertical Recovery== | |||
I noticed that every elytra section mentions its vertical recovery being poor, but this only occurs when you use the move incorrectly. With the use of certain recovery techniques, you can make it go significantly further, enough to make elytra get to ledge from beyond the bottom camera border. Pretty much every good Steve extends elytra's vertical distance. A great example would be in this clip from Yonni. [https://clips.twitch.tv/FastBusyCroquetteDBstyle-QPyutQDvwYLndeqB/ Twitch Clip][[User:Tytaneum|Tytaneum]] ([[User talk:Tytaneum|talk]]) 13:52, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | |||
==Redstone== | |||
I think it's probably worth mentioning how irrelevant redstone is. I've labbed it pretty extensively, and you can't actually run out of it unless you use specific setups to do so. The only almost practical way to do it is by placing extremely long lines of TNT with starting materials, and even then you regain a ton every time you mine redstone. Because you burn little and gain so much, you always run out of other materials first (Block mats for TNT and gold/iron for minecarts.) This makes redstone not really worth thinking about and "If Steve is out of redstone..." situations nonexistant. [[User:Tytaneum|Tytaneum]] ([[User talk:Tytaneum|talk]]) 14:06, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | |||
== About the term ‘units’ == | |||
I believe minecraft terms mean minecraft vocab, and no minecraft player calls wooden planks or iron ingots ‘units of wood or units of iron’. It’s even labelled as Wooden Plank and Iron ingot in the minecraft ingame crafting guide! Sure this is smash, but we still gotta go by their vocabulary. [[User:MetaKnightX6|MetaKnightX6]] ([[User talk:MetaKnightX6|talk]]) 20:54, August 11, 2021 (EDT) | |||
Also, even if it ends up staying the same with this ‘units’ business, at least change it from units of wood to units of wooden planks, as ‘wood’ on its own doesn’t exist in minecraft, only x logs and x planks exist, and should Steve collect logs it is immediately converted to wood. [[User:MetaKnightX6|MetaKnightX6]] ([[User talk:MetaKnightX6|talk]]) 20:54, August 11, 2021 (EDT) | |||
:Some pedantry, [https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Wood wood] does exist in ''Minecraft''. But on the larger topic, "unit" is a better term because it is more general. Steve mines 1 iron ingot, yet places an iron block for 1/9th the cost in Minecraft, so generalizing to a "unit" is more flexible; same issues exist with his other crafts. In my experience most people refer to whatever log/log-derivative they are using as "wood" unless they are using a specific variant for a build; and even then, they'll likely just say "wood" or "spruce/birch/oak/etc." instead of the full name for brevity. Most people will understand what it means, similar to how ''Smash'' players understand "tech" for the official term "ukemi". --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 21:26, August 11, 2021 (EDT) | |||
::My take on the matter (as a seasoned ''Minecraft'' player) is that we must use some unifying plural noun that fits all of them - there's no saying "woods" or "stones" or "irons," and the admittedly bland and uninspired term "units" is the simplest and most universal term we have. You note that "we still gotta go by their vocabulary" and while most of the time I would agree, using the term "units" lets you say stuff like "units of wood, stone, and iron" as opposed to "planks of wood, pieces of stone, and ingots of iron." Not a huge fan of this rule, but [[SW:OFFICIAL|SmashWiki is not official]], and even the people making this game messed around with terminology - see the Tips menu and the Mr. Sakurai presentation. | |||
::As an aside, it's not really possible to completely equate Steve's abilities in ''Smash'' to the player's in ''Minecraft'' - some key examples being that wooden logs and planks are seemingly equated in ''Smash'', and the number of a material required to make an ''entire set of tools'' varies vastly across the different tiers. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 21:51, August 11, 2021 (EDT) | |||
==yonni== | |||
Since users keep adding him in, I'm starting a section for him as well. yonni has had pretty decent results with Steve, however up until Riptide he hasn't really had a real "breakout tournament." Online, prior to his 7th place finish at SWT he saw rather mixed success with the character. Offline, he's had an [https://www.pgstats.com/articles/yonni-tops-seed-performance-ratings-at-riptide average placement of 9th place] at regionals and smaller, which means that Riptide was an outlier compared to the rest of his performance. While it is likely that yonni would continue to perform well in the future, for now I don't think there should be a rush to add a player just because of one outstanding result. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 23:49, September 21, 2021 (EDT) | |||
:I personally oppose Yonnis inclusion at this time. Mostly because I don't think we really have a good idea of how good the character is yet. If he's top tier one single 9th place early in the return of offline meta, may not as significant as it currently seems. There are a lot of Steve players popping up and so one good result isn't enough for inclusion to me.[[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 23:55, September 21, 2021 (EDT) | |||
::There are a lot of good Steve players online and they won't make it in. yonni popping off recently is only a recent thing. We'll just have to wait and see. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 00:16, September 22, 2021 (EDT) | |||
It's been about a month, and while yonni has yet to reach a result as impressive as 9th place at Riptide, he's still done rather well, with 17th at {{Trn|Glitch 8.5 - Konami Code}}, 25th at {{Trn|Super Smash Con: Fall Fest}}, and 33rd at {{Trn|Low Tide City 2021}} and garnered wins over players such as {{Sm|Suarez}}, {{Sm|Epic_Gabriel}}, and {{Sm|Grayson}}. I'm a lot more inclined to add yonni at this point since he's clearly shown some consistency. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 21:59, October 24, 2021 (EDT) | |||
== DDee and Onin == | |||
Opening the discussion to add both of these players into the "Most historically significant players" section. DDee has shown consistent usage of Steve in every run he has in tournament, garnering a large amount of notable wins with the character and recently pushing his first major to take 5th at Momocon 2022. He lacks attendance at majors but I feel this shouldn't be an issue due to his strong regionals. He is also the current #1 in Georgia and although likely to go back down to 2 or 3 in the next PR. Onin is a odd case but he still has a pretty solid lineup of major runs (25th at LMBM, 33rd at Glitch Infinite, and 49th at Riptide) and a plentiful amount of wins, notably recently peaking as Combo Breaker with a 1st. He also takes #3 on the recent Michigan PR. I feel that both of these players have solid arguments to be added to this slot, more so DDee due to repeated wins at other tournaments more than one. [[User:Swidd|Swidd]] ([[User talk:Swidd|talk]]) 22:53, June 10, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:Late to this, sorry was very busy. DDee, while being a very good player, hasn't had that many results at a national level, and in my opinion, a very important distinction between being "historically significant" versus being a "hidden boss" is performance at a national level. Now, consistently solid regional results certainly helps his case, but a lot of DDee's regional results have been recent. I'd say wait for DDee, especially since recency bias can certainly cloud opinions on the player, as we don't know how he'd perform in the future. As for Onin, his national results certainly lack what Jake, yonni, acola, and even DDee have, so I'd wait on him as well. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 22:32, June 16, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::I've been thinking, DDee is likely going to be ranked on this iteration of the PGR, for North America at least. If he gets ranked, I wouldn't be opposed to adding him. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 15:10, July 3, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:::PGR v3 30-11 just released and DDee is on it, 18th even https://www.twitter.com/pgstats/status/1554906441152188418, should def be added now [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 15:15, August 3, 2022 (EDT) | |||
At this point I'm for adding both. I think our cutoff for consisteration for Steve's is roughly being able to top 8 majors. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 10:25, July 4, 2022 (EDT) | |||
Quick update on this, Onin has been added since he won a major. DDee I was going to add but decided to put him off for now because he lacks a lot of results and only has one tournament above regional level, plus his plans on potentially solo-maining PT meaning his Steve results would be lost in time compared to the other Steve players. I think most people would be on board with DDee if he continues to play Steve and see another top 8 at a major (DreamHack?). [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 21:56, July 5, 2022 (EDT) | |||
any reason ddee hasn't been added yet? i mean i get that he only really had one major performance but he's literally pgr, top 20 even [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 19:53, November 14, 2022 (EST) | |||
:Only one major, he's been going a lot of PT and the PGRs were regional. Lots of PGR v3 players aren't on the lists. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 19:55, November 14, 2022 (EST) | |||
:: PGRs were regional sure but he was top 20, and even in orionrank which was international he was top 50, anyway after his performance at dreamhsck atlanta where he beat esam and placed 9th i still dont see any reason now to keep him off the list [[User:Luigi86101|Luigi86101]] ([[User talk:Luigi86101|talk]]) 01:30, November 21, 2022 (EST) | |||
== Split Proposal == | |||
Seems there's no on-wiki discussion about this yet, so let's start this off. | |||
I '''support this so long as Brawl {{SSBB|Meta Knight}} gets similar treatment'''. Both are significant events in ''Smash'' history, being the only singles characters to see bans, and should absolutely get the coverage such actions warrant. One could argue Smash 4 {{SSB4|Bayonetta}} and some Doubles combinations (eg. Double Cloud in S4, I think 64 has some too?) as well, though Bayonetta didn't actually see prevalent bans. Doubles combinations could possibly be a single article or something? | |||
Let's say this proposal accounts for Brawl Meta Knight as well, considering it was a far wider-reaching ban and was even in the Guiness Book of Records, I think?? I'll plop the proposal tag on the page after this is up, anyway. | |||
Naturally, such pages should be on the "significant events" template as well. -[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #4952eb;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 20:22, October 30, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' for making articles about both Meta Knight's and Steve's bans. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 11:18, October 31, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' as the original proposer. I don't mind Meta Knight getting one either. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 13:02, October 31, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' on both. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 13:06, October 31, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support'''. [[File:ThegameandwatchIcon2.png|20px]] [[User:Thegameandwatch|<span style=" color: Green;">'''Thegameandwatch'''</span>]] [[File:Thegameandwatch signature icon.png|20px]] [[User talk:Thegameandwatch|''<span style="color: blue;">The Nerd </span>'']] 16:14, January 26, 2024 (EST) | |||
:'''Support''' for making articles about both. However I do not think that Smash 4 Doubles Cloud/Bayonetta need their own articles - there was never really a push to ban Bayo and Cloud just went without much fuss at a time where the game was already "dead". [[User:Pumpernickelpeter47|Pumpernickelpeter47]] ([[User talk:Pumpernickelpeter47|talk]]) 10:30, March 22, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' per proposal. Title could be something along the lines of "Discussions of character bans" as a full character ban is a somewhat uncommon occurence. [[User:ZeusDeeGoose|ZeusDeeGoose]] ([[User talk:ZeusDeeGoose|talk]]) 13:12, August 12, 2024 (EDT) | |||
==Expanding MHSP to 15== | |||
Currently Steve stands at its limit of 10 players, and with the release of the [[LumiRank 2024.1|most recent ranking]], we are choosing to add one more who had reached the top 30 ({{Sm|Carmelo}}). While at the moment there are discussions to replace {{Sm|Quandale Dinglelingleton}} with Carmelo, the point remains that we will still be at the limit, and with many other potential Steve players on the come-up, we are likely going to have to go over the current limit. As such, I am proposing that we raise Steve's threshold to 15 for the following reasons: | |||
*Steve is the most popular ''Ultimate'' character in competitive play. He had been ranked 1st by OrionRank/LumiRank in terms of representation since July-December 2022, and in the current season there are going to be 6 Steve players ranked top 50, which is not including Miya's secondary Steve. | |||
*Currently, there are 10 players who easily are historically significant: 3 have won majors with Steve (acola, Onin, Miya); 6 have ranked well in the top 50 with Steve (Carmelo, crepe salee, Jake, Syrup, Yamanaction, yonni); and DDee, while never being formally ranked, has been a top 20-level player for quite some time now. In addition, Quandale Dinglelingleton had ranked in the top 100 and has wins over several top players such as Light (Collision 2023), Zackray (Ludwig Smash Invitational), and Tweek (Fusion 100), and placements such as 9th at SSC 2022 and 13th at Collision 2023. Finally, there are a slew of other up-and-coming Steve players, including Many, Raki, and 33Peranbox, who are all likely going to be ranked top 100 sooner or later, or at least an HM. Either way, there will be a lot of Steve players up for contention. | |||
To sum it up, the section is currently at 10 players, with one more that will be historically significant being discussed right now. As such, the threshold should be increased to 15. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 18:30, August 6, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' - We are at that point where we we will soon run out of spots, even if we limit it to top 50 players. I believe Steve, being not only regarded as the best character in the game, but also the most represented character at top level, warrants expansion to 15. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 16:35, August 13, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 02:54, September 11, 2024 (EDT) | |||